Who would have fallen?

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

This poll was suggested by Boromir88 so don't come blaming me.

One of the questions that comes up from time to time is a 'what-if': what if the Fellowship had not been broken? Would someone else have gone after the Ring like Boromir? And, if so, who? This poll will settle that.

A couple of notes, however, about the candidates:

1) yes, I know that Gandalf was not with the Fellowship at its breaking, but let's assume that if they had stayed together he would have a found a way to rejoin them

2) yes, I know that Frodo already succumbs to the Ring, but I left him on the list for anyone who might think that he really was the weakest link: maybe the other members of the Fellowship could have held out longer than Frodo?

At least this time I shan't be accused of not giving a fuzzy other option in the list, as the question is rather finite in nature.

(I am sure that there are lots of threads already devoted to this topic, but I was unable to unearth any....)

EDIT

Here's one thread, courtesy The Saucepan Man: Which of the Fellowship would have gone Ring mad?

[The Saucepan Man]

Aragorn.

[Bêthberry]

Since when has the existence of any discussion threads ever limited Fordim's poll threads? Isn't it de rigeuer in fact for his polls to be the necessary culmination or consequence of previous discussion threads?

[The Saucepan Man]

I linked to my post on that thread because it sets out my reasoning for my choice, which I stand by. I couldn't be bothered to type it all out again ...

[alatar]

Think that an choice was left out. How about none of the above?

We read that Boromir is set on taking and using the Ring in Rivendell. His desire for the Ring doesn't start at Parth Galen; it just comes to a head there as he ran out of maybe tomorrow's for which to wait for some chance to get it. And yet even he did not react with glee (if memory serves ) when Frodo got speared in the Chamber of Mazarbul - "haha! And now there be Eight..."

One might assume that the Ring's proximity to Mordor may also have something to do with Boromir's fall, but I would say that Boromir fell due mostly to the pen of Master Tolkien than from any influence of the Ring. His character is doomed to try, and yet even Boromir, shown to be muttering to himself during the Anduin boat ride, still does not take the Ring in the end. He was penned to be the most flawed of the Nine Walkers, and yet even he redeems himself and dies a hero's death. The Fellowship is made up of nine "best of the best." Tolkien's first string came to dance, and they weren't going to disappoint.

Gollum walks alongside Frodo and Sam around and almost into Mordor, yet his desire grows no stronger. His desire exceeds that of Boromir's, and though they are of different natures (hobbit and man), Gollum is able to abstain from taking the Ring for most of the journey. If he were able to resist even when the Ring were puportedly more powerful, than what does this say for Boromir and the other? Could they also have resisted?

Anyway, if Boromir were the best candidate for being the Ring-Taker, then who would be next to fall?

• Gandalf? - He'd already rejected a freely proffered Ring.

• Aragorn? - He's the ultimate human hero, doomed to be King or to die trying. His desire to be the Second Isuldur ("by one all were cursed, and by one all would be redeemed") coupled with his love for Arwen would shield him from the lures of the Ring. He needn't have waited so long if he did indeed want the Ring, and could have taken it in Bree, at Weathertop or in the long trip to Rivendell ("Frodo's going to die anyway, and I'm the obvious heir of this 'loom..."), but Aragorn didn't take it. His past actions can be used to predict his future behavior.

• Legolas? - As an elf, he would be wise enough to know the dangers of the Ring. He never comes off as does Galadriel, who has an agenda for Middle Earth. Legolas to me simply would not want it.

• Gimli? - I think that Gimli, like the Elf, would know the dangers of the Ring. His anti-domination dwarvish nature may also shield him somewhat from the temptation, and his sense of honor and duty (demonstrated when he proposed to take an oath as the Fellowship leaves Rivendell) would help.

• Sam? - Sam is tempted by the Ring, yet his 'Hobbit sense' and thereafter his love for Frodo lets him resist the Ring's temptation.

• Merry and Pippin? Arguing that these two would not try to take the take the Ring is more difficult. Surely like Sam they have some hobbit sense (maybe?) and they too have a love for Frodo. I would throw in that hopefully the Ring would reject these two if any other choices were available - look what happened to Saruman, the Uruks, the Witch-King and even Sauron when at least one of the two were present...My concern is that they would try to get it to use it unwittingly, not to gain power and dominion but just to try it. And Pippin fell to the palantir's call, and so he might try for the Ring. One would have to set his temptation against his love for Frodo and the betrayal of his kin - it's one thing to steal a palantir from a wizard but another thing to try for your kin's stuff.

I assume that this thread is in regards to the Fellowship, or I would nominate my choice ++Denethor.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by alatar

Think that an choice was left out. How about none of the above?

Ermmm...as one of the above includes Frodo I'm not sure that such a choice makes much sense....

And to add my clarification to Saucy's I would just point out that this poll is in fact in the Books forum and not Movies.

[Glirdan]

I am sorry for all those Aragorn lovers out there, but I will have to say Aragorn. These are the reasons why:

1) Gandalf knew what kind of power he would have if he held the Ring and he didn't like that thought.

2) It took Frodo a long time to actually succumb to the power of th Ring. It happened only after he was captured at Cirith Ungol. Therfore, even if the other Hobbits are younger than he, we must assume that Hobbits (as said in the book numerous times) have more strength in them then it appears and so it would have taken a while for the other Hobbits to succumb to the power of the Ring.

3) The race of Men is weak, right? And in the movie, we see that when Frodo offered the Ring to Aragorn, the desire to take it came upon him. So, instead of letting Frodo keep the Ring, Aragorn could have taken it.

I could not find an excuse for Legolas and Gimli, but I have a feeling that if Legolas was offered it, he still would not have taken it. As for Gimli, I can not think of anything for a reason whe he would not have taken it.

[Morsul the Dark]

Legolas and here is why

Sam merry pippin all know about the ring all refuse to take but rather help frodo in his quest

Aragorn-he may be a man but a man smiled upon by Eru to fulfill a prophecy of becoming king(also avoids ring as seen in Bree)

Gandalf already refused the ringthat leaves gimli and legolas

well let's see, Gimli has no use for the ring i understand dwarves care little for such things i mean the dwarf rings were destroyed and taken and they just do not care

legolas....as gimli said in the film"No one trust an elf" hes too sketchy if you ask me Im not fond of him book or movie and think nay know that he would have succumbed to rings power for being and immortal elf he would consider himself mighty enough to wield it falling to his own pride(may add especially if he is captain obvious leggy)

[radagastly]

I've heard all the arguments. I chose Legolas simply because he is an elf. While man is always shown to be weak overall, Elves are the ones who seem to succomb to temptation most easily, and fail the most miserably as a result. much of the first age is about elves succumbing to one kind of temptation or another. Why not the Ring?

Indeed, this would have been a totally different story if SOMEONE had succombed to the lure of the Ring. It would not have been a bad story, as stories go, but it would not have been the story Tolkien presented to us.

The whole story of the first age (and indeed, some of the second age) is about the tragedy of the weakness of the elves. The slaying at Alqualonde (sp.?) is probably Feanor's weakest moment, surrendering to his own passion. Legolas was probably no stronger in this than Feanor, he simply had less passion to work from. He had so much less at stake at that time.

I will elaborate more. Gotta go now. Sweeny Todd starts in twenty minutes, and I still have to buy popcorn and soda-pop.

Must finish later.

[MatthewM]

Pippin, no doubt - if he went for the Palantir held by GANDALF, he would definitely have succumbed to the Ring quickest out of the 8 mentioned.

[Lindale]

Old Gandalf comes nearest to Sauron's "innate" powers. Being a Maia and all. I suppose he was more relieved than he revealed when he met Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli without the Ring, but this: his wisdom shields him from the lure of the Ring. Also, his humility. And the task that the Valar, notably Manwe and Varda. He got a special mention, didn't he? And he said he was afraid of Sauron. This could be one of his most potent shields: the fear of Sauron, not just for the fear of Sauron dominating and lording ME but also maybe the fear of becoming Sauron.

The others, the hobbits, Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas, I think the latter three are the next-in-line.

Aragorn, because the Ring knows that it has a particular hold on the hearts of Men. But I think that the guys who said that Arwen's love shields him has a major point--love is a power greater than the Ring in Arda isn't it? Also, the knowledge that his ancestor fell for the Ring, you know, sorta like learning from the mistakes of others. Maybe he would've fallen for the Ring in the same manner Frodo does at the very end only.

Legolas, the same reason why the Three Rings appealed to the Elves, but not so much because I didn't get the impression that he was a Feanorian-proud Elf. (a thought: Feanor would've been loved by the Ring, maybe? And he would have loved the Ring too!).

Gimli, maybe, but it is in his Dwarvish nature that he's tough and all, and besides, if the Ring falls on the hands of a Dwarf it won't do as much "damage" as, say, a proud Elf or a high Man or a Wizard. And apart from his innate toughness I think his humility also is a virtue against the Ring. Remember that he is not Thorin-proud, and the only hint that he shows his pride is when Legolas entered the Paths of the Dead first; and maybe this was just a joke on his part, only half-true.

Merry, Pippin: what "use" would they have been to the Ring? So one can argue that they may become Smeagol-turned-Gollum numbers two and three, but I doubt it: Pippin especially, since the Ring may render him curious but not greedy. And I suppose that if a Hobbit had the Ring, it would just produce another Smeagol.

Sam? I doubt it, unless Sam is dwelling ever more in the Ring's forte because Sam has his duty to Frodo and the Fellowship. (Note: I don't think Sam values Frodo more than the Quest, because he left Frodo to continue. So maybe the Ring can use this "obligation" thingy of Sam for its own end, had Sam continued to wield the Ring longer in Mordor? Arrgh, then again, maybe not, because Hobbits have an extraordinary resilience to the Ring, them hobbits being too simple relative to the other races. And Sam loves Frodo and his Shire and that may be shield enough.)

Frodo? I think the fact that he was seduced only at the very end is makes him toughest with regard to the Ring. Sure he put on the Ring to escape the madness of Boromir, but during the time of Faramir he does not, knowing that by doing so the Ring will drive him madder. Wisdom shields him, much like Gandalf.

[Groin Redbeard]

Four out of Nine, in the Fellowship, have already rejected the ring. That makes: Aragorn, Gandalf, Frodo, and Sam the only people in the Fellowship who have rejected the ring. Which leaves Legolas, Gimli, Pippin, and Merry the only ones who haven't.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Seeing what Legate has said, I would have to vote Gandalf, the ring would not want to take most of the Fellowship except for maybe Aragorn.

[Thenamir]

Oh dear. An unfortunate juxtaposition of subjects has been triggered in my mind by this statement:

However, since the Ring is not inhabited by a distinct fea with its own conscious mind, but does "live" as an appendage of Sauron, I think it is a patent exception to the rule.

I am forced to conclude that the Ring is indeed...a horcrux!! (insert brief revelatory orchestral bit here) Sauron is indeed He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named!

[Nogrod]

Tolkien's world seems to be fatalistic by nature. What happens, happens under the guidance of providence of Eru - or whatever term you wish to apply here.

That means that things went as they did because they were meant to go that way. That's why Gollum was left alive or Faramir let Frodo go etc. So a divine plan of sorts.

Keeping this in mind no one else but Boromir could have fallen because everything was prescribed. Aragorn fought against the weakness of his humanity but was meant to overcome it as well as Gandalf was meant to die and overcome the seduction of the Ring and Frodo was not to fail even if it required the help of his mate Sam in the end. But that was all preordained. Nice and tidy in a universe whose creator meant it to be nice and tidy under this divine guidance the author created himself to work under that presupposition.

~*~

But if we go for the "what if?" scenarios and forget the providence Tolkien weawed into his world I'd say that Gandalf, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli could be the ones the Ring could have lured.

Why not the hobbits? Well, what would they have done with it? I think they were too much afraid of it - and seeing Frodo's transformation they were even more sure that was none of their bussiness (remember Pip played with the Palantír because he didn't know what it was... of the ring he knew it was something too big for him). Sam surely is a questionmark. Had Frodo died in the hands of the orcs he might have tried to fulfill the mission but what would have followed?

And we should remeber that fex. Gandalf (and possibly even Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli together) would have been able to deal with a "Ring-master Merry gone wrong" anytime.


Now Gimli could have taken the ring to protect the dwarf-kingdom and that might have proven a real challenge for Sauron. The same goes with Legolas. He could have raised a formidable fight against the dark forces, not in front of Minas Tirith but around Lorien or something... gathering all the forces of good under the same banner (Cirdan with his borrowed ring included). But the corruption argument bites here as well. In the end it would have turned evil and looking at this one would say Gimli would be less knowledgeable than Legolas to that effect.

So Legolas with his knowledge of the world and it's history probably would not have taken it but Gimli then? Without Tolkien-scripted providence Gimli might have taken it?

But Gandalf is there too. He stood against the seduction in Hobbitton but what if he had lived later and things had looked grim enough? He knew the dangers but in the situation where there seemed to be no hope anymore, would he have been lured to try the ring? Who knows? He was dead and out of game at the moments when the real decisions were made...

I'd say Gimli would not be as aware of the dangers and might have used the ring and Gandalf might have been persuaded by the graveness of the situation to use it even if he knew the hazards.

So Gimli or Gandalf?

Or Aragorn?

Without the providence of Eru Aragorn is the number one aim of the Ring and the one who should indeed use it. He should be the human hero trying to save his people with the help of the ring! Looking at Boromir's death he should be awaken to the debt he owns to the humankind and he should have taken to the tracks of Frodo bringing the ring to Minas Tirith. Why follow some "insignificant hobbits" when the fate of the whole world was at stake?

He should take it if he was to be a king.

But Tolkien wished it otherwise. There was the providence of Eru to twist his mind from the good of his kin (the human kind) to sidetrack him to help the hobbit-friends he had made and that decision later led to the final victory. That's the providence Tolkien wrote denying believability of the characters.

So Aragorn it is.

Without the pre-decided fate (by the author) he would have taken the ring as it was the only decent possibility back there at the shores of Anduin.