Valinor in the 4th Age? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mattius · 01-16-2003, 12:45 PM

What happened to the Undying Lands after the War of the Ring? If ME is indeed supposed to be mythological Europe then where did it go? Is this mentions anywhere? It couldn't have gone straight away after the War of the Ring as the last people to sail to it were Gimli and Legalos and that was some years after the war had ended. Anyone?

Also, was the middle earth a sphere or was the earth flat at this point?

Jurion · 01-16-2003, 12:57 PM

Arda was once flat, but after the fall of Numenor in the second Age Illuvatar removed Valinor from the mortal world and made the world round. The Undying Lands would have stayed the same way it always was, it's inhabitants were immortal and there was little to no significant change there. The Elves were still allowed to travel to Valinor over the Straight Road/Path, this was/is a path which takes you out of the mortal world and does not follow the circular shape of the world, instead it takes one to the Undying Lands.

Lindolirian · 01-16-2003, 12:58 PM

It was taken from the actual physical world in the Second Age when the Numenoreans attacked Valinor. The world was flat before that, but then it was made round, and there are now "New Lands" in its place that nobody has explored. Now you ask, "how did the Elves get there in the Third Age then?" A very good question. The Valar permitted those ships that they deemed okay to come to Valinor, to somehow pass through the sky and come supernaturaly to Aman. Read the the Akallabeth in the Sil for more info on wy they took Aman from the Circles of the World. Also, the Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad depicts it very well. I'll look and see if I can get a picture of it.

Lindolirian · 01-16-2003, 01:04 PM

Not exactly what I'm lookin for, but it'll give you an idea. Does anybody else knwo the picture I'm talking about? It's in the second edition of the Atlas on pages 174 and 175.

Eru · 01-17-2003, 10:50 PM

yes, i know what picture you arwe talking about. i have it right here in front of me. it shows the curvature of the earth and an arrow going straight out from it, hence the name "The Straight Way". Valinor is still flat, right?

also, there is a description of the journey to Valinor after it has been removed in the lost road and other writings.

01-16-2003, 12:45 PM	#1
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Valinor in the 4th Age? What happened to the Undying Lands after the War of the Ring? If ME is indeed supposed to be mythological Europe then where did it go? Is this mentions anywhere? It couldn't have gone straight away after the War of the Ring as the last people to sail to it were Gimli and Legalos and that was some years after the war had ended. Anyone? Also, was the middle earth a sphere or was the earth flat at this point? __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

01-16-2003, 12:58 PM	#3
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	It was taken from the actual physical world in the Second Age when the Numenoreans attacked Valinor. The world was flat before that, but then it was made round, and there are now "New Lands" in its place that nobody has explored. Now you ask, "how did the Elves get there in the Third Age then?" A very good question. The Valar permitted those ships that they deemed okay to come to Valinor, to somehow pass through the sky and come supernaturaly to Aman. Read the the Akallabeth in the Sil for more info on wy they took Aman from the Circles of the World. Also, the Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad depicts it very well. I'll look and see if I can get a picture of it. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

01-16-2003, 01:04 PM	#4
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	Not exactly what I'm lookin for, but it'll give you an idea. Does anybody else knwo the picture I'm talking about? It's in the second edition of the Atlas on pages 174 and 175. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

01-17-2003, 10:50 PM	#5
Eru Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 71	yes, i know what picture you arwe talking about. i have it right here in front of me. it shows the curvature of the earth and an arrow going straight out from it, hence the name "The Straight Way". Valinor is still flat, right? also, there is a description of the journey to Valinor after it has been removed in the lost road and other writings. __________________ "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!"

01-16-2003, 12:57 PM	#2
Jurion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 85	Arda was once flat, but after the fall of Numenor in the second Age Illuvatar removed Valinor from the mortal world and made the world round. The Undying Lands would have stayed the same way it always was, it's inhabitants were immortal and there was little to no significant change there. The Elves were still allowed to travel to Valinor over the Straight Road/Path, this was/is a path which takes you out of the mortal world and does not follow the circular shape of the world, instead it takes one to the Undying Lands.