Why side with Sauron? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Silmiel of Imladris · 01-04-2004, 01:29 PM

I looked this up but I didn't find anything. Why did the easterlings and the other evil men side with Sauron? Did Gondor and Rohan do something to them to make them side with Sauron? Did Sauron have more to offer?

The Dark Elf · 01-04-2004, 01:36 PM

three possible answers
1. They figured Sauron would win so why not side with him?
2.gold and glory
3. when Sauron had the ring, he took over those lands and made them "slaves to his will"

rutslegolas · 02-26-2004, 01:34 AM

i agree with the dark elf .

the dark lord wanted servants for his army but he could take servants from the west the passages of the rivers were controlled by minas tirith.
so he looked in the east and found the haradrim and the easterlings. there would be three reasons why these people joined the dark lord:-

1. the dark lord conqurered their lands and demanded that they serve him or die.

2. the dark lord offered them to rule the territories in the west which he would control.

3. these people the easterlings had enimity with minas tirith.

Hot, crispy nice hobbit · 02-26-2004, 09:24 AM

You know, the enmity between Gondor and men of the East had been around long before Sauron took refuge in Mordor? The people of Gondor and Arnor (North Kingdom) were descended from the Numenoreans (Men of the West). In their heyday, the Numenoreans wer great Mariners and explored many places in the Middle-Earth. But in the latter days, they became corrupted by their pride and fear of death. Their last king, King Tar-Minastir, landed south of the Bay of Belfalas, a place called Umbar. (Yes, that the place were the Corsairs of Umbar came from) The Numenoreans mixed with the Haradrim people there, and became used to their evil customs. Those Numenoreans were called Black Numenoreans.

Anyway, there had always been bad blood between those the people of the East and those of the West... When the Dark Tower was broken in the Second Age, there had been invasions of Gondor by the Easterlings, Wainriders, and Haradrim even though Sauron had been cast out of Mordor.

Leyrana Silumiel · 02-26-2004, 04:45 PM

Hot, crispy nice hobbit is right; the Haradrim and the Easterlings would have taken any opportunity to fight against Gondor and Rohan, even if it meant siding with Sauron. I suppose they figured Sauron, considering how powerful he supposedly was, would in no way lose the war, so they were in on a pretty good deal. ^_^

Of course, we all know what happened there....

Noxomanus · 02-27-2004, 03:46 AM

I suppose they were deceived and perhaps seduced into his service. I'm quite certain they worshipped Sauron as a god...and you know were religious beliefs can lead to...

Oroaranion · 02-27-2004, 02:28 PM

they could also have been corrupted by fear.

Sauron probably kidnapped their leaders, and made them swear allegiance to him.

and i thought that the Numenoreans had invaded lands of the Easterlings. they took Umbar of course.

Boromir88 · 02-27-2004, 10:52 PM

yes, what everyone said here is true, sauron had influence over Harad and the easterlings. They felt as if it was like live or die.

Im sure gold was involved Sauron had already tried bribing the dwarves.

Silmiel of Imladris · 02-28-2004, 10:59 AM

Very interesting everyone. They may have also sided with Sauron because they were convinced that he was the good one. Just two quick side questions. Where did the Easterlings come from as to who they decended from? Also, what happened to them after Aragorn became king?

Hot, crispy nice hobbit · 02-28-2004, 10:22 PM

Easterlings were mentioned under the same name for several ages, from the First Age to the Third. (Or even Fourth) But I guess it would be a rather safe assumption to say that they all had the same ancestry. In the 1st Age, Men which had sided with Morgoth (the First Dark Lord) were collectively known as Easterlings. Famous Easterlings of the First Age are Ulfang the Black and his sons, Uldor, Ulfast and Ulwarth. These are the guys who betrayed the Noldor (Elves in Exile) in their war. One other named Easterling included Brodda who enslaved Hurin's people.

Hurin was an Edain, by the way, a word which means 'late-comers' (because men woke later after Genesis) , but was more often used to describe Men which are Elf-friends. All Men were said to have some sort of encounter with Morgoth very early on, since He wanted to enlist their services against the Eldar. But the Edain escaped Morgoth and reached the Elves. Easterlings, on the other hand, remained in his service, although some like the sons of Bor, changed his allegience to follow the Elves. Easterlings also arrived in Beleriand, which was in the West continent, later than the Edain, which showed that they had originated in the East...

Majority of those Easterlings that followed Morgoth either perished or fleed Beleriand after the downfall of Morgoth at the end of the First Age. The Men of Numenor (The Numenoreans) had Elf-friend Ancestry, and were granted Numenor (Atlantis) for their aid against Morgoth. Of course, that means that the Good Guys had their paradise, while the Bad Guys wallow in their guilt and ate worms in the East. The rise of Sauron reversed the situation somewhat; the Men of Numenor became proud and scared of Death, which enabled Sauron to corrupt them into invading Valinor (Land of the Gods). The result is Zeus destroying Atlantis

, leaving only a remnant of those Numenoreans (the Faithful) who escaped to Middle-Earth.

Meanwhile, of course, the Easterlings and Haradrim and other 'Wild Men' were happily dancing around the fire and were none too happy that the Numenoreans had come back again to Middle-Earth. Previously, of course, the Numenoreans had invaded their lands while making war against Sauron. The Numenoreans probed up their pretty kingdoms, Arnor and Gondor, and war sparked. Sauron had returned into the fray, and then, everyone just fought until Isildur hacked out Sauron's finger.

Yep, that about summarised the ongoings between the Easterlings and the Edain. Major potholes, of course - making of the Nine rings, capturing of Sauron, but the essense is there. So you see, there was B-A-D blood between the two people (Prof T always liked to trace enmity from the beginning).

Leyrana Silumiel · 02-29-2004, 12:42 PM

Quote:

They may have also sided with Sauron because they were convinced that he was the good one. Just two quick side questions. Where did the Easterlings come from as to who they decended from? Also, what happened to them after Aragorn became king?

Another reason they may have sided with Sauron:

Quote:

Thus, as the Second Age draws on, we have a great Kingdom and evil theocracy (for Sauron is also the god of his slaves) growing up in Middle-earth.

(from The Silmarillion, Preface)

Admittedly, that was during the Second Age, and the events of LOTR are, as we know, in the Third Age; but it's the same guy, and obviously he went about things in a similar way (and was defeated once again--some people never learn ^_^). But essentially, the Easterlings (and the Haradrim, I believe) worshipped him.

As to what happened to the Easterlings and the Haradrim after Aragorn became king (emphasis mine):

Quote:

In the days that followed his crowning the King sat on his throne in the Hall of the Kings and pronounced his judgements. And embassies came from many lands and peoples, from the East and the South, and from the borders of Mirkwood, and from Dunland in the west. And the King pardoned the Easterlings that had given themselves up, and sent them away free, and he made peace with the peoples of Harad...

(from the chapter "The Steward and the King" from ROTK)

Hope that answers that part!

Voralphion · 03-01-2004, 05:27 PM

Quote:

In the 1st Age, Men which had sided with Morgoth (the First Dark Lord) were collectively known as Easterlings

Easterling was not a collective name for the men that sided with Morgoth, it was the term for the men who came from the east. Many were in the service of Morgoth but not all, Bor was an Easterling who fought against Morgoth.

The main reason that the Easterlings sided with Sauron was that they worshipped him as a god-king. For thousands of years they thought Sauron was their god, so it is no wonder that they sided with him, because who would refuse to fight for their god.

Hot, crispy nice hobbit · 03-02-2004, 09:28 AM

Gee, I tend to generalise a great deal when it comes to the Bad Guys.

But then the Good Guys are not always good either.

One of the reasons the Easterlings worshipped Sauron is because of the Nine Rings: He gave the rings to the most powerful amongst Men, be the Numenoreans or Easterling. I believe that in the UT or some other works, one of the Nazgul is an Easterling called Khamuz or something.

If Sauron gave one of the rings to an Easterling King, he is likely to exert complete control over the people, not that he needed the ring to deceive them any how though.

01-04-2004, 01:29 PM	#1
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Why side with Sauron? I looked this up but I didn't find anything. Why did the easterlings and the other evil men side with Sauron? Did Gondor and Rohan do something to them to make them side with Sauron? Did Sauron have more to offer? __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

01-04-2004, 01:36 PM	#2
The Dark Elf Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Angmar Posts: 74	three possible answers 1. They figured Sauron would win so why not side with him? 2.gold and glory 3. when Sauron had the ring, he took over those lands and made them "slaves to his will" __________________ "Fool of a Took!"

02-26-2004, 01:34 AM	#3
rutslegolas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Elven Lands of India Posts: 533	i agree with the dark elf . the dark lord wanted servants for his army but he could take servants from the west the passages of the rivers were controlled by minas tirith. so he looked in the east and found the haradrim and the easterlings. there would be three reasons why these people joined the dark lord:- 1. the dark lord conqurered their lands and demanded that they serve him or die. 2. the dark lord offered them to rule the territories in the west which he would control. 3. these people the easterlings had enimity with minas tirith. __________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull - The Phantom.

02-27-2004, 03:46 AM	#6
Noxomanus Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 233	I suppose they were deceived and perhaps seduced into his service. I'm quite certain they worshipped Sauron as a god...and you know were religious beliefs can lead to... __________________ Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't

02-27-2004, 02:28 PM	#7
Oroaranion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Dol Amroth Posts: 94	they could also have been corrupted by fear. Sauron probably kidnapped their leaders, and made them swear allegiance to him. and i thought that the Numenoreans had invaded lands of the Easterlings. they took Umbar of course. __________________ I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

02-26-2004, 09:24 AM	#4
Hot, crispy nice hobbit Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Troll's larder Posts: 195	You know, the enmity between Gondor and men of the East had been around long before Sauron took refuge in Mordor? The people of Gondor and Arnor (North Kingdom) were descended from the Numenoreans (Men of the West). In their heyday, the Numenoreans wer great Mariners and explored many places in the Middle-Earth. But in the latter days, they became corrupted by their pride and fear of death. Their last king, King Tar-Minastir, landed south of the Bay of Belfalas, a place called Umbar. (Yes, that the place were the Corsairs of Umbar came from) The Numenoreans mixed with the Haradrim people there, and became used to their evil customs. Those Numenoreans were called Black Numenoreans. Anyway, there had always been bad blood between those the people of the East and those of the West... When the Dark Tower was broken in the Second Age, there had been invasions of Gondor by the Easterlings, Wainriders, and Haradrim even though Sauron had been cast out of Mordor.

02-26-2004, 04:45 PM	#5
Leyrana Silumiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 58	Hot, crispy nice hobbit is right; the Haradrim and the Easterlings would have taken any opportunity to fight against Gondor and Rohan, even if it meant siding with Sauron. I suppose they figured Sauron, considering how powerful he supposedly was, would in no way lose the war, so they were in on a pretty good deal. ^_^ Of course, we all know what happened there....

02-27-2004, 10:52 PM	#8
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,507	additions yes, what everyone said here is true, sauron had influence over Harad and the easterlings. They felt as if it was like live or die. Im sure gold was involved Sauron had already tried bribing the dwarves.

02-28-2004, 10:59 AM	#9
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Very interesting everyone. They may have also sided with Sauron because they were convinced that he was the good one. Just two quick side questions. Where did the Easterlings come from as to who they decended from? Also, what happened to them after Aragorn became king? __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

02-28-2004, 10:22 PM	#10
Hot, crispy nice hobbit Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Troll's larder Posts: 195	Easterlings were mentioned under the same name for several ages, from the First Age to the Third. (Or even Fourth) But I guess it would be a rather safe assumption to say that they all had the same ancestry. In the 1st Age, Men which had sided with Morgoth (the First Dark Lord) were collectively known as Easterlings. Famous Easterlings of the First Age are Ulfang the Black and his sons, Uldor, Ulfast and Ulwarth. These are the guys who betrayed the Noldor (Elves in Exile) in their war. One other named Easterling included Brodda who enslaved Hurin's people. Hurin was an Edain, by the way, a word which means 'late-comers' (because men woke later after Genesis) , but was more often used to describe Men which are Elf-friends. All Men were said to have some sort of encounter with Morgoth very early on, since He wanted to enlist their services against the Eldar. But the Edain escaped Morgoth and reached the Elves. Easterlings, on the other hand, remained in his service, although some like the sons of Bor, changed his allegience to follow the Elves. Easterlings also arrived in Beleriand, which was in the West continent, later than the Edain, which showed that they had originated in the East... Majority of those Easterlings that followed Morgoth either perished or fleed Beleriand after the downfall of Morgoth at the end of the First Age. The Men of Numenor (The Numenoreans) had Elf-friend Ancestry, and were granted Numenor (Atlantis) for their aid against Morgoth. Of course, that means that the Good Guys had their paradise, while the Bad Guys wallow in their guilt and ate worms in the East. The rise of Sauron reversed the situation somewhat; the Men of Numenor became proud and scared of Death, which enabled Sauron to corrupt them into invading Valinor (Land of the Gods). The result is Zeus destroying Atlantis , leaving only a remnant of those Numenoreans (the Faithful) who escaped to Middle-Earth. Meanwhile, of course, the Easterlings and Haradrim and other 'Wild Men' were happily dancing around the fire and were none too happy that the Numenoreans had come back again to Middle-Earth. Previously, of course, the Numenoreans had invaded their lands while making war against Sauron. The Numenoreans probed up their pretty kingdoms, Arnor and Gondor, and war sparked. Sauron had returned into the fray, and then, everyone just fought until Isildur hacked out Sauron's finger. Yep, that about summarised the ongoings between the Easterlings and the Edain. Major potholes, of course - making of the Nine rings, capturing of Sauron, but the essense is there. So you see, there was B-A-D blood between the two people (Prof T always liked to trace enmity from the beginning).

03-02-2004, 09:28 AM	#13
Hot, crispy nice hobbit Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Troll's larder Posts: 195	Gee, I tend to generalise a great deal when it comes to the Bad Guys. But then the Good Guys are not always good either. One of the reasons the Easterlings worshipped Sauron is because of the Nine Rings: He gave the rings to the most powerful amongst Men, be the Numenoreans or Easterling. I believe that in the UT or some other works, one of the Nazgul is an Easterling called Khamuz or something. If Sauron gave one of the rings to an Easterling King, he is likely to exert complete control over the people, not that he needed the ring to deceive them any how though.