Riddles in the Downs

[Urwen]

Here is a novel idea, multiple people and two locations are involved.


Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise, - This is Gondolin
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise - "....then let her stay; let the bird return to her cage, where she'll wilt as she has wilted before....."
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river - Gondolin again
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise. - via poisonous sharp shaft
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice. - "Return to your dwelling, for my heart warns me that if you follow those who love you no longer, you'll never return there again."

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So it is someone/something that can't leave their home or they'd die.

That's for you to figure out.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Here is a novel idea, multiple people and two locations are involved.


Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise, - This is Gondolin
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise - "....then let her stay; let the bird return to her cage, where she'll wilt as she has wilted before....."
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river - Gondolin again
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise. - via poisonous sharp shaft
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice. - "Return to your dwelling, for my heart warns me that if you follow those who love you no longer, you'll never return there again."

Erm... so what is your answer? Who is the speaker? Who is spoken to?

[Urwen]

I dunno. Some parts read Eol to Aredhel, some parts read Aredhel to Eol.

[Urwen]

And the 'master' is either Curufin or Turgon.

[Galadriel55]

Nope to all.

Eta: in case mt last post was ambiguous - Gondolin, whatever role you had in mind for it, is not the answer.

[Urwen]

So is it an object? A person? First age? Second age? Third age?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So is it an object? A person? First age? Second age? Third age?

Should I give you the answer while I'm at it? This is the Riddles thread, not 20 Questions. The point is for you to figure it out. I will respond to guesses and thoughts/ideas, and I will give hints related to those, but I will not be giving you straight information. Otherwise what's the point of the game?

If you're finding yourself stuck, I would recommend taking a look at the first stanza. Its clues are more specific than the latter two and are more likely to pinpoint the answer.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Hey, no worries! Actually my first thought was "of course it's Drogo, that's obvious!", and only after some fact-checking it occurred to me that Drogo didn't have much to do with Bag End. I thought it was my lack of knowledge about Bungo Baggins that failed to supply the right bit of history. But you're certainly not the only one to confuse the masters' parents!

For what it's worth, I really liked this riddle. It's very descriptive - once I got to the answer I knew it had to be right - but cryptic enough that it took work to get to; very thorough history from start to finish; and poetic to boot. Interesting subject matter too. And referencing quite a bit of history and personages. Me gusta.

Here is my much humbler contribution:



Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise,
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river.
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise.
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice.


Happy riddling!

I’ll make My official answer the Mirror Of Galadriel. Animate you see images obviously without breath. Home in Lothlorien which of course seems like paradise. All polished silver and gleaming. Could be a more straight clue describing a mirror. It definitely offers hope and temptations but also darkness and fears. Sam and Frodo reject what they see. The master’s advice? Galadriel does warn them of the dangers and be careful with the mirror.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I’ll make My official answer the Mirror Of Galadriel. Animate you see images obviously without breath. Home in Lothlorien which of course seems like paradise. All polished silver and gleaming. Could be a more straight clue describing a mirror. It definitely offers hope and temptations but also darkness and fears. Sam and Frodo reject what they see. The master’s advice? Galadriel does warn them of the dangers and be careful with the mirror.

That's pretty good logic, actually. Not the answer, though. The answer fits the clues in a much more specific way.

[Huinesoron]

Haaaaaang on a minute:

Windless, yet animate, - alive without breath
With air of demise, - as cold as death
I'll wilt if I leave - drowns on dry land
My home, your paradise. - stream and pool / is nice and cool

Gleaming and beautiful, - so sleek, so fair!
All polished silver - - clad in mail, never clinking
I am the hope - what a joy to meet
That brings you to the river. - we only wish / to catch a fish

But temper desire: - "Come, Sméagol"
I'll be your demise. - "Men will kill you, if they find you here."
Once caught, you'll reject me. - "Don't want fish."
Take the master's advice. - "Come!"

"Ugh!" he said, "it is cold and clammy!" — and so he guessed. "Fish! fish!" he cried. "It is fish!"

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Haaaaaang on a minute:

Windless, yet animate, - alive without breath
With air of demise, - as cold as death
I'll wilt if I leave - drowns on dry land
My home, your paradise. - stream and pool / is nice and cool

Gleaming and beautiful, - so sleek, so fair!
All polished silver - - clad in mail, never clinking
I am the hope - what a joy to meet
That brings you to the river. - we only wish / to catch a fish

But temper desire: - "Come, Sméagol"
I'll be your demise. - "Men will kill you, if they find you here."
Once caught, you'll reject me. - "Don't want fish."
Take the master's advice. - "Come!"

"Ugh!" he said, "it is cold and clammy!" — and so he guessed. "Fish! fish!" he cried. "It is fish!"

hS

And so it is, with a perfect explanation! Back to you.

[Huinesoron]

You know me not:
As the others you deem me,
And like them am I.
Yet other I am,
And before you I stand,
And by the sword in my hand,
You know me now.

You know me not:
As my kinsman you deem me,
And still now am I.
Yet living I am,
And before me you stand,
And with silver in hand,
You know me now.

You know me not:
As yourself you deem me,
And like you am I.
Yet restless I am,
And before you I stand,
And by the touch of my hand,
You know me now.

One speaker, three people addressed.

hS

[Urwen]

First stanza sounds like Turin to Dorlas, but the second one sounds like Eol to Turgon.....


And Eol and Turin have one thing in common: Anglachel. Turin was named after his black sword as well.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

First stanza sounds like Turin to Dorlas, but the second one sounds like Eol to Turgon.....

And Eol and Turin have one thing in common: Anglachel. Turin was named after his black sword as well.

That's a pretty good linking of themes, but not right I'm afraid.

Keep going! (I promise this one doesn't have a huge error - I made particularly sure to check stanza 2 to see who the addressee was.)

hS

[Urwen]

Still sounds like Turin/Eol......

[Urwen]

But based on your response, I am somewhat close.

[Urwen]

It could be Aragorn addressing Faramir, Eowyn and Ioreth.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

It could be Aragorn addressing Faramir, Eowyn and Ioreth.

This is very close, and in fact names at least one correct person, though not in the correc place.

hS

[Urwen]

Maybe Eowyn? Though this only provides context for the first stanza.....

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Maybe Eowyn? Though this only provides context for the first stanza.....

Eowyn is the speaker; now to whom is she speaking? (It may also help you to consider 'when' - these are all specific book moments. And no, she doesn't actually speak in all of them.)

hS

[Urwen]

Well, the first stanza is her speaking to Witch King, who mistook her for a man, which she is - as in, she is of the race of Men.

The second stanza could be her talking to Imrahil, who detected that she is alive when no one else could.

And the third stanza is her talking to Faramir.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, the first stanza is her speaking to Witch King, who mistook her for a man, which she is - as in, she is of the race of Men.

The second stanza could be her talking to Imrahil, who detected that she is alive when no one else could.

And the third stanza is her talking to Faramir.

Spot on! Imrahil specifically checked she was alive by catching her breath on his vambrace, hence the 'silver' line.

Over to you.

hS

[Urwen]

I liked that one. Here is a semi-hard one from me.

You are of the second house
I am your ally and your friend
And even when I am away
By your side I still would stand

When the soldiers of evil come
And try to bring forth the flame
The gift I gave thee shall awaken
To beat them at their own game

But any power comes with a cost
And so it has happened this time
For even though no life was lost
The price paid hurts all the same.

(Fair warning, the speaker is a bit obscure ^_^)

[Huinesoron]

Okay, first thought is Beleg to Turin, but that's definitely wrong, because 'no life was lost'. With that out of the way...

'Second House' could mean several things:

-Second House of the Edain, ie the Haladin. That would probably put us in the Turin story.
-Second tribe of the Eldar, ie the Noldor. The speaker would probably be a Sinda.
-Secondborn, implying that the speaker is an Elf.

'The gift I gave thee' sounds like a weapon. The context suggests it involves fire; how many flaming swords are there? Mm... yeah, it's Anglachel and Anguirel, isn't it? But the only time either of them was given as a gift was by Thingol to Beleg, and Beleg isn't of the Second House of anything.

Life wasn't lost, but a price was paid - for the gift? For the power? For friendship? What could the price be?

Circling back to the first point - could we be in the Wanderings of Hurin? That certainly meets the 'obscure' standard... except it would be the recipient who was obscure. Hurin himself is anything but.

Hmm... jumping tracks completely, could this be Cirdan to Gandalf?

You are of the second house - Gandalf is of the Maiar, the lesser 'house' of the Ainur
I am your ally and your friend - Cirdan befriends Gandalf pretty much instantly.
And even when I am away
By your side I still would stand - See below.

When the soldiers of evil come
And try to bring forth the flame - 'A balrog! A balrog is come!'
The gift I gave thee shall awaken - Narya, the Ring of Fire, given by Cirdan to Gandalf.
To beat them at their own game - Gandalf makes excellent use of fire, potentially charged by his Ring.

But any power comes with a cost
And so it has happened this time
For even though no life was lost
The price paid hurts all the same. - 'I have written Gandalf is here in signs that all can read from Rivendell to the mouths of Anduin'. Gandalf's use of fire always ran the risk of identifying him. Moreover, his confrontation with the Balrog, while not losing his life, still took him from the Fellowship at a critical time.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Urwen]

Hint: the answer to this one is found within the book of incomplete stories, as written by Chris Tolkien.

[Huinesoron]

Unfinished Tales?

Wait - are we in Cirion and Eorl here? Gondor summoned the Rohirrim through a combination of the Red Arrow and the beacons, which were lit by fire, so that could explain the second stanza. And Gondor gave up a huge chunk of land to the Rohirrim, which could be the price of the third.

As for the 'Second House' business... it looks like Cirion is actually in the second line of the House of the Stewards: the ninth steward died without a son, so the stewardship passed to his sister's line.

So I'm thinking Eorl to Cirion, upon Halifirien.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope, it's more obscure than that. If t helps, I thought of doing Eorl/Cirion one, but then I remembered those two.

[Huinesoron]

Hang on... maybe it was the Haladin after all.

Are we in 'The Faithful Stone', kicking Orcs out of Brethil with the Drúadan watch-stone, but getting our feet burnt putting out the fire?

Are we, therefore, Aghan of the Drughu, speaking to Barach the woodsman of the Haladin?

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Hang on... maybe it was the Haladin after all.

Are we in 'The Faithful Stone', kicking Orcs out of Brethil with the Drúadan watch-stone, but getting our feet burnt putting out the fire?

Are we, therefore, Aghan of the Drughu, speaking to Barach the woodsman of the Haladin?

hS

I knew you had it in you.

It was one of the tales I liked best.

[Huinesoron]

Perhaps something quick?

Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too.
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you.

hS

[Urwen]

Is there something in Tolkien lore which steals memories?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Is there something in Tolkien lore which steals memories?

Yes.

I said take.

hS

[Urwen]

Simbelmyne aka Evermind aka Eternal Memory?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Simbelmyne aka Evermind aka Eternal Memory?

Nope. I think Evermind is white.

hS

[Urwen]

Mirror of Galadriel?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Mirror of Galadriel?

No.

Try connecting your answers to the whole riddle; just making guesses isn't going to get you any hints.

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

A bit outside the box here but it reminds me of Gollum’s time riddle. It could be the Sun the first half is obvious the second is more metaphorical the passage of time measured in sunrises and sunsets

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

A bit outside the box here but it reminds me of Gollum’s time riddle. It could be the Sun the first half is obvious the second is more metaphorical the passage of time measured in sunrises and sunsets

You're right that there's a certain amount of metaphor involved, but this is not the right answer.

The second line is making a series of specific references, not just listing random colours.

hS