WWJ VIII ~ Things That Go "Quack" In The Night

[Cailín]

I merely scanned, apologies if I missed something. First to answer some things:

That jumped out at me too. I would have thought that there are a number who could be in danger tonight, purely on the basis of reputation. Why pick on those two? Are you trying to set them up for a fall?

Feeling left out, SpM? In the last few games I followed / participated in Anguirel and Spawn were (one of the) first to die. Incidentally, in the games Anguirel and I were in together, either he or I or even both of us died before the second Night had ended.

Don't read too much in to it. I could not name all fabulous players in this game, now could I?

As for Nogrod, so desperately wanting to discuss the new Seer. There are three basic things the Owl could do:

- Declare himself rather early on
- Leave (obvious) clues
- Hoping to slip under the radar for a long time

All three ideas have merits and disadvantages and the Owl should decide him/herself what is best. Honestly, every player has a different style and they should react to the situation as they see fit. You are putting too much stress on the issue, Nogrod. If I were the Owl, I would have a plan and would want everyone to stop speculating.

--

I will have to read more closely to form actual suspicions. Nogrod and Roa_Aoife jump out with their continuous bickering, but then again Ordos can launch at each other as well.

I trust Mormegil for now, even though he is a silly idle Elf.

I am currently unsure about Anguirel and Saucepan Man. Both seem different somehow. The others have said too little to be on my radar as of yet.

I am going to reread everything now. Be back soon.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Someday, we'll be on the same team and know it, and then we shall be quite fearsome to our opponents. Untill that time, we're going to argue a lot.

And after it, I imagine!

Well, whether or not you've succeeded in confusing the ducks, you've completely befuddled me. It does my heart good to see a duel like that...reminds me of the heady days of the phantom's tirades...

Aggressive Roa and Nogrod both are, to be sure, but that Roa seems a spot more confident. Oh, that didactic first post! She Who Must Be Obeyed!

Incidentally, morm's back on form, but I still suspect him. He has made a possibility that the Goose will employ this ruse into a certainty. He has ensured that the Owl will not be believed till they deliver results. Hmm.

Kath, you seem to be striking from the shadows-anything of your own to add?

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by the spider lover

are the Ducks able to PM during Day, too?

Originally Posted by chubb fuddler

Well, the rules say

. So I assume they can't PM during the day. But maybe Moddess Goddess could confirm.

The Ducks are not allowed to PM each other during the Day. Ducks can only PM in Duckie form while they paddle about in the pond and that only happens at Night.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Cailín

I merely scanned, apologies if I missed something. First to answer some things:

Feeling left out, SpM? In the last few games I followed / participated in Anguirel and Spawn were (one of the) first to die. Incidentally, in the games Anguirel and I were in together, either he or I or even both of us died before the second Night had ended.

Don't read too much in to it. I could not name all fabulous players in this game, now could I?

As for Nogrod, so desperately wanting to discuss the new Seer. There are three basic things the Owl could do:

- Declare himself rather early on
- Leave (obvious) clues
- Hoping to slip under the radar for a long time

All three ideas have merits and disadvantages and the Owl should decide him/herself what is best. Honestly, every player has a different style and they should react to the situation as they see fit. You are putting too much stress on the issue, Nogrod. If I were the Owl, I would have a plan and would want everyone to stop speculating.

--

I will have to read more closely to form actual suspicions. Nogrod and Roa_Aoife jump out with their continuous bickering, but then again Ordos can launch at each other as well.

I trust Mormegil for now, even though he is a silly idle Elf.

I am currently unsure about Anguirel and Saucepan Man. Both seem different somehow. The others have said too little to be on my radar as of yet.

I am going to reread everything now. Be back soon.

You missed several Owl strategies-it's more complicated than you'd have it. I won't say any more than that in-jokes can be an Owl's salvation.

It's true what you've said about our careers. True and most tragic. Sniff.

Your vote against Nogrod's plan convinces me. Precisely because of that, I am inclined to think Nogrod far more innocent than Roa.

Some justification for your confidence in morm?

And finally, yes, I know what's wrong with me. I haven't made any completely wild and ludicrous accusations on apparently intelligent grounds yet. That's because I've been trying unsuccessfully to construct one against Saucie for most of the afternoon...

[Roa_Aoife]

Your vote against Nogrod's plan convinces me. Precisely because of that, I am inclined to think Nogrod far more innocent than Roa.

You suspect me because I argued against a bad plan? Alright....

And you know, it wouldn't be a Nogrod/Roa spat if more people got involved, like Cailin and Morm. (Thank you Cailin/Morm.)

I'm signing out for a bit. I'll be back on about 5 hours before voting closes.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

You suspect me because I argued against a bad plan? Alright....

Naturally. Would a duck have the guts to propose such a maniacal scheme?

And what would benefit a duck more than to refute such a maniacal scheme?

Sa-ha! I have you, Mademoiselle Confit-de-Canard! Go and plot with your pals morm and Kath and their craven apprentice Saucie!

(Thinks: blast. How does Cailin fit into the above...?)

[Cailín]

You missed several Owl strategies-it's more complicated than you'd have it. I won't say any more than that in-jokes can be an Owl's salvation.

Did you note the 'basic' strategies? I see your point.

Your vote against Nogrod's plan convinces me. Precisely because of that, I am inclined to think Nogrod far more innocent than Roa.

Hmm... I have been reading their argument carefully (and a good read it is) but cannot say either one of them strikes me as particularly Duckish. I'd say Nogrod would be less inclined to discuss the Owl thing so openly were he a wereduck. But on the other hand, I do not think we should start accusing Roa for overconfidence and what -in my ears- makes sense.

Some justification for your confidence in morm?

Little enough, other than that his Goose comment was something I had not thought of previously. However, your suspicion, Ang, might be justified as well.

--

I have reviewed my opinion: I am not suspicious of the Saucepan Man. Most of the things he said are perfectly sensible. Even though I think that in principle a wolf can hide better behind clever reasoning and (far-fetched) cases than random votes.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Cailín

As for Nogrod, so desperately wanting to discuss the new Seer.

Well. I don't think I have any reason to be "desperate" about subjects to discuss. I have just tried to do my part in
a) helping the village (which I see is happening, as different scenarios and possible traps are brought forwards - slowly, yes, but coming)
b) spurring some more genuine discussion than this "oh how sad that fine-versed halfling is gone!"

And at least I myself have gained some food for thought. Spm. was quick to renounce my initial idea, but came back much smoother after reasoning (and is this reasonable-villager conduct - or very ducky-one?). Roa has been more attacking than ever... she's normally the cool reasoner.

= Roa (answering Ang)
You suspect me because I argued against a bad plan? Alright....

You can't argue against a bad plan if there is none, Roa! Sorry. I've given suggestions for people to think - and by that make out together our common good. As I said, as long as you point to bad ideas in my suggestions, you are doing good... as they are out there to be evaluated and thought of.

I promise to try some new routes on my next post - as I have time for it.

EDIT: X-posted with Cailin & Anguirel

[Valier]

Ggggrrrr can't a dwarf get a quiet sleep around here?.......I guess not! All you chattery Elves and the likes! I must read through the days posts, but will be around again shortly.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Based on this, I have moved Nogrod and SPM to the top of my list. As well as Mith- she's not being her usually thoughful self.

Give me a chance girl!!!!I did all I could in the time available. Now at least I have something to look at. And I refer you to this post .

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Incidentally, morm's back on form, but I still suspect him. He has made a possibility that the Goose will employ this ruse into a certainty. He has ensured that the Owl will not be believed till they deliver results. Hmm.

Ang, Ang, Ang, you are not only obtuse and circumlocutious but you are also instransigent yet it all adds to your individual charm. All I did was point out something in advance to the owl so that he/she wouldn't fall for a ploy that may be employed by the goose. Now the goose may be reticent to employ said tactic. So I saved our owl from making a grevious error, perhaps and helped to stultify a ploy that could have been effective; yet all in all I can see why you'd think I'm still suspicious. So by all means carry on and keep reaching for that rainbow.

[Valier]

Well I have read through and I noticed that Nogrod,SPM,Roa and Ang are all going at it. I know in most *ahem* games Nogrod is always the first to urge awareness of the gifted and Roa normally has something to say about it. SPM I have not played alot with ,but I am pretty sure this is how he plays. and Ang...well he normally gets killed fairly quickly. First day analysising is useless for me...so I won't do it. It is nice to see a loud village though for once. I say we look at the quiet ones who tend to slip below the radar for most of the game and not lynch our loud and multiple talkers.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Cailin

I shall definitely not vote Dancing Spawn -even though she is a nasty smelly orc- or Anguirel toDay, since they will probably be attacked toNight anyway.

Originally Posted by Valier

and Ang...well he normally gets killed fairly quickly.

It's always nice to know you're loved...

[Valier]

Originally Posted by Ang

It's always nice to know you're loved...

I didn't say I was the one who kills you....ya ok I guess I love ya...(unless your a duck!)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Ang

I tell you what I'd like at some stage, when we've all talked a bit more. One of those nice, gently ironic, summary of everything posted so far posts by Lady Spawnowen (or is it Ghashspawnthrurg?) They have a rather stabilising effect, like a drink of water. Even when she's guilty...

For those words I would have given you one! But alas, nowadays I really don't have the time in my hands to write them. I'm planning on launching a rocket anytime soon, you see, and I need to sew my eight-legged co-pilot's space suit ready. If I don't get killed next Night as Cailín so cheerily predicted, I'll see if I have time for a summary later.

Talking about tactics so fiercely on Day 1 seems a bit odd. I think we shouldn't agree on a strategy about how to act in certain situations beforehand. Compared to the Ducks, that's one advantage we have: the freedom to change our minds during Day.

Now, onto other things. There are still a few who haven't said anything. I look forward to hearing from them.

The discussions are going on very much like I would have expected, but as I said, I wonder all this talk about Gifteds. Even if the point wasn't to secretly flush out Gifted villagers, it distracts us from spotting the Ducks. Those who join the debate can sure appear helpful and they don't fly under the radar... a duckish scheme? I will reread everything before I make conclusions of this all, though.

One more thing: Mith, four exclamation marks if someone puts you on their suspect list? A little snappish, are we?

[Elu Ancalime]

Whoops! I almost forgot that this game was starting. Elu Ancalime, Dwarf playing Didderidoo, checking in.
________
Michigan Marijuana Dispensary

[Lalaith]

I'm back again, I've read through our talk so far....and I have a strange feeling of deja vu. Once I dwelt in a village similarly plagued. Two of our most vociferous folk argued long and loud over a point of strategy, causing so much distraction and so much suspicion that both were lynched....and both were innocent. I wonder if we have a similar situation here....or, then again, whether we have something quite different going on.

[Mithalwen]

Traditionally, I have tended to find first and early posting suspicious but this theory has been less reliable of late and I seem to recall that Glirdan, Morm and Valier have posted early before without proving guilty. In anycase these are "I'm here posts" . Unremarkable so far but we are only an hour in.

More interesting is Cailín stating so early who she is not voting for. this could be a hint at giftedness or a duck-trick or a bluff or nothing. Since only the ducks are a gang of three to name two others would be a bold move for a wolf. However the Owl and the Hawk/Nightingale Alliance/Combo/Whatever to avoid creeping out the Saucepan Orc (!), with the use of what I regarded as a neutral term "league", know about one other so to name two might be a fudge. However it seems a clumsy and premature tactic. I don't know Cailín much from personal experience but she has the reputation which suggests greater sophistication. So this is a puzzle which perhaps will become clearer. At this stage I am very much just tossing balls in the air and seeing what happens.

Ang makes the first attempt address the situation seriously. That is a mark in his favour but I must not be prejudiced by my fondness for Mozartian opera -Hopsassa! As a birdcatcher he could prove useful unless he has developed webbed feet Slightly puzzled by his reference to the words about the seer?

Then follows a lot of stating of the obvious regarding the conditions (again understandable - I rather think my first post counts as such)... and Nilp's self vote.

For now I will take this as an honourable route if it is the only participation possible. I don't know if he makes a habit of this but I shall not necessarily be always so lenient. Non-participation makes life so difficult for the true villagers and often plays into the hands of the "three".

Long and insubstantial post from SpM followed by a short but pertinent one by Kath. I seem to remember SpM being Mr- Strategy- and- Plans in previous times.... seems a bit off ..... especially since he goes after Nogrod who could be seen as picking up on Lalaith's sensible suggestion to discuss general strategy.

I am going to break up this post since there have been quite a lot of posts since I started this and there may well be more profitable ways to spend my time. Especially since you have more time to read through the posts for yourselves than I have to decide my vote.

[Anguirel]

Mith, the bit that puzzled you was a bad Malbeth gag...

[JennyHallu]

And the final villager checks in. Incorporeally, of course, as it is just too much of a hassle to climb down from my mountaintop. Great view from up here, though.

I've read over the current loquacity, and I'm going to think some things through before voting later tonight.

But a few quick points: Val, in a village this size (truly the largest I have ever overseen), I'm not sure if we can call the ultra-loudness of a mere 4 villagers a loud village.

Roa right now disturbs me a bit. I am used to seeing her careful and thoughtful, and she seems to have thrown caution to the wind, picking little arguments with people on everything but who the ducks might be, and drawing all our attention to the question of why she's being so aggressive. I don't think she's a duck, because I see an evil Roa as even more cautious than usual, but this ultra-aggressiveness is worrisome, especially with a Goose about.

Noggie, dear...you're beating a dead horse again. Unlike many of the villagers, I am so used to seeing you take a hardline position day 1 and argue about it until the village loses its collective hearing, that I tend, at this point, to trust in your innocence. I look forward to seeing you settle into your more helpful late-game persona.

Frankly, I'd like to hear more from most of the village (As I'm sure they'd like to hear from me).

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

One more thing: Mith, four exclamation marks if someone puts you on their suspect list? A little snappish, are we?

It was not the suspicion that annoyed me but the basis. I don't expect people to have memorised my every word on the admin thread, but my post stated that I didn't have much time and would do more later. Roa seemed to be straw clutching. As do you...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

The discussions are going on very much like I would have expected, but as I said, I wonder all this talk about Gifteds. Even if the point wasn't to secretly flush out Gifted villagers, it distracts us from spotting the Ducks. Those who join the debate can sure appear helpful and they don't fly under the radar... a duckish scheme?

I don't think we have been talking about gifteds in general - or tried to conjure them out in to the open. One should read, what is written...

But it sounds interesting, as you say, that it "distracts us from spotting the Ducks". Without these discussions on Owl tactics - and all that has "spawned" on them, you others would have much less to be wise and cool about... I prefer the Hardtalk to nonsense. It actually draws some werecreatures around - and as we speak real issues, and not just whimsical "how-do-you-do" -stuff, we get to see some actions and reactions.

I would like to hear, how would anyone hunt the ducks by just lamenting the whole day and promising random voting?

So people. Do not hang-around, but take part! We will catch no ducks by just waiting for the others to do it - and hoping to save our private necks...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Noggie, dear...you're beating a dead horse again. Unlike many of the villagers, I am so used to seeing you take a hardline position day 1 and argue about it until the village loses its collective hearing, that I tend, at this point, to trust in your innocence. I look forward to seeing you settle into your more helpful late-game persona.

Well, well. "A dear"? So where is the wind blowing now from? As you have mainly being a werecreature on our games, and never been kind to me, maybe you are innocent now?

But yeah. One has to do, what one sees best the first day, and then on the second, and so on... And it seems to be a bit different on other days than day1. So if I'm alive, rest assured...

[Mithalwen]

I'm tired, hormonal, my blood sugar is crashing and I want to go home and eat and if noone is talking I may as well. Has anyone got else anything to say before I vote?

[Nogrod]

As the kind of European vote is getting nearer, we should try to get some things going... (We probably have two large voting cycles with these "deadlines")

I just watched out for a totally different thing from what we have mainly been discussing about - and possibly insignificant, as there is time still - but anyhow.

Untill now:

Glirdy has posted twice, saying nothing (the first posts of the day, so can't blame him on that)

Nilp has made only a self-vote.

Kath has made one "catching the rainbow -thing and explained the past of her, Morm & Sauce.

Sleepy has posted once, saying he will vote randomly.

Elu has posted once, just checking in.


Lalaith has posted twice, being very careful not to say much of this or that.

Jenny & Valier have posted little, but taken some stances...

The others, I think, have posted somewhat decently.

But as I said, there is time still...

[Sleepy Ranger]

Sorry for the lack of interaction today but I've been busy and still am. However I'd like to say (sorry if said before) that any plan, no matter how much it may distract, should be taken into consideration. For while we may go off the subject off catching us some ducks we may find ourselves an innocent or such. Or trying something else could confuse the ducks.

Hopefully I'll have more time to interact tomorrow (Next Day).

[The Saucepan Man]

This is a noisy village, for the most part, as I suspected it would be. I’m gonna have quite a hard time keeping up.

I see that Nogrod has succeeded in making Owlish tactics and the merits of dicussing them the main topic of conversation after all. This I regard as entirely unhelpful, for the reasons that I stated earlier. Nevertheless, as others have said, it is quite typical for him on Day 1, and it would be foolish for a Duck to draw attention to himself so. So I hesitate to believe him Duckish purely on the basis of this.

Nevertheless, the discussions centred around our Owl have already done some potential damage, I believe, which really ought to be remedied. Nogrod suggested that we should all drop hints, suggesting our Owlishness, so as to “buy time” for the real Owl. How ludicrous would that be? Every time that an innocent dies, we will be scanning their posts and making accusations based on them, on the basis that the dead villager might have been the real Owl. A lot of dead innocents lie down that road. The Owl too would have to drop hints, since not to do so would mean that he or she would stick out like a sore thumb. But the Owl’s hints would have to be true, so as not to render them useless. And who is in the best position to spot this? I’ll give you a clue. They have bills and webbed feet. So the plan, at best, delivers a pile of dead innocents and, at worst, a dead Owl. ‘Tis a silly plan. We should not go there.

Hmm, maybe I should reassess my opinion of Nogrod. But no. Surely it would be too risky for a Duck to suggest such a dangerous plan here at the beginning of all things.

As for mormegil’s observation that the Goose might try declaring as an Owl, it would be a foolish thing to do, assuming that the Owl is on his or her talons. To be believable, the Goose would have to declare one, probably two, “Ducks“. A wise Owl will remain silent - that should go (and should have gone) without saying. Either the Goose gets “lucky” and a Duck is lynched (in which case the Goose is failing in his or her task) or an innocent is lynched, swiftly followed by the Goose. But by identifying this as a potential risk, you make it more likely that a real Owl declaration, on Day 3 for example, will not be believed. On the contrary, I think that we should believe any Owl declaration. It can soon be accurately, and lethally for a Goose masquerading as an Owl, tested.

This is exactly what I meant when I suggested that we should avoid discussion of Owlish strategy. Not only do we risk putting the Owl in a difficult position, but we also risk tying ourselves up in knots. And now you have got me doing it, albeit to try to repair the damage that has already been done. I suggest we leave the Owl and the other Gifteds to get on with their business and get on with our own which, for true ordos, is analysing, testing, putting forward theories, accusing and, ultimately, voting.

More in that vein soon, although it might not be for an hour or so as my dinner of rat’s tails and mouldy potatoes is shortly to be served …

[Anguirel]

That was an extremely sensible point-yet, sigh, again-Saucie. Goosey goosey gander morm!

Well, I shall vote soon, and at present probably for Kath, the perennial suspect, or possibly morm, the pate-de-foix-gras...

[Lalaith]

SauceOrc, your point about false Owlish hints and their futility makes excellent sense.
However, on the Goosey Owl question, what if said Goosey Owl came up with, not a Duck, but a list of "known innocents"? Think of the confusion....I'm not saying by the way that the true Owl should reveal itself in such a scenario, I'm just pointing it out as a possibility...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I see that Nogrod has succeeded in making Owlish tactics and the merits of dicussing them the main topic of conversation after all. This I regard as entirely unhelpful, for the reasons that I stated earlier.

Nevertheless, the discussions centred around our Owl have already done some potential damage, I believe, which really ought to be remedied. Nogrod suggested that we should all drop hints, suggesting our Owlishness, so as to “buy time” for the real Owl.

Well I said, we should think of that option too. And now, as it starts to be discussed - and the variable pro's and con's are being outlined, it also means, that the ducks can't make it their weapon! This is what I meant. Any one of us, alone, might forget one possible trap or possibility for ducks - and fall in it. Now as we discuss them open, the ducks can't rely on their "threesome-brain" against our one Owl. It's like we are playing together - giving pieces of ideas and offering them to our Owl to think about... and the more ideas, the more problematic it is to our ducks to come up with the working plan.

Sorry: we seem to have a bit different approach to this, but I think laying bare all the possibilities confuse the ducks more - who are already in distress more than we are (I think Farael's game just showed it - WW XX). We should press on them to have the hard times - not making ourselves work a double-shift.

[Anguirel]

Right. Here goes, ladies and gentleorcs, the second vote of the day.

And it goes to

++KATH

This is a dull and unoriginal choice, and I can't make much of a case for it, because Kath has acted as a sort of clarifier but entirely eschewed involvement herself. I do however think it is, in principle, the right thing to do. Not even the most charming Rainbow Chaser should get away with silence without a little attention.

Good luck in the remains of the Day...

[Mithalwen]

Ah Nogrod, dear, we must stop meeting like this!!!

Well I must vote shortly or I won't be in a fit state for anything.

OK I am disregarding for now anyone who hasn't posted a lot or at all eg Nilp, Lote, Elu, Sleepy, Jenny, Glirdan. This is the major disadvantage of the timezone thing in that they may come and post a shed load of interesting stuff the moment I have gone. If they don't well there is time to wait and see if there is a suspicious pattern. Also there is a chance that the ducks would pick on a quiet or silent innocent for tonights victim as it will give us few clues.

Lalaith and Cailin (apart from the odd statement I pointed out earlier) seem to be posting sensibly - can't judge if they are behaving normally.

Valier and Morm.... seem OK so far from what I know of them on what I have read so far and Nogrod is definitely his usual self. If he is pullling that trick as a first time wolf then he is playing a blinder.

Ang, not worrying me yet but he has fooled me before ... then everyone fools me - I have picked a wolf once since game 1 and then I had a choice of 2

I did pick a "cobbler" though and the same person is worrying me again for the same reasons. It worries me when peopel I know aren't stupid act stupidly. Saucepanman isn't ringing true to me. Neither is Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant yes they are the people who picked on me. But you see I know I am innocent so the fact that 2 people who said (in posts 12 and 16) that we should make serious efforts to find the ducks find me suspicious for a fine semantic distinction and my habitually excessive punctuation creep me out.

Roa I forgive because she has also supected the SpOrc.... Ok one last look then I vote.


NB cross posted with everything since Nogrod's 65. ALso I haven't totally forgiven Roa...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by mormegil

First, elves are not Tarks

Doh! I was confusing tarks and bloody-handed Elves. You are either the latter, or something with feathers that swims in water …

Originally Posted by mormegil

Now to get this out of the way, hopefully, I suspect both Kath and SpM of Duckery and say they should hang.

Really, morm, I would have expected you to make your traditional random accusations against villagers who perhaps don’t know you as well as Kath and I. That might have been more productive. Perhaps you are trying to feign standard behaviour without actually achieving anything of use …

With regard to the spat between Roa and Nogrod, I obviously see far more merit in Roa’s position. Possibly, she is a clever Duck merely prolonging the pointless discussion so as to divert us all from our task in hand. But, just as likely, she is genuinely trying to repair the damage that these Owl speculations have given rise to, as I have myself done. Difficult to say. I don’t see her aggressive behaviour as being out of character. It looks pretty standard to me. But I would like to see more in the way of helpful analysis from her, rather than merely argument about something that should never have become a central point of discussion in the first place.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Long and insubstantial post from SpM

Mithalwen!!!!! (I’ll see your exclamation marks and raise you one ). That was my first post, when little of use had been said or done. I hope that I have been more helpful since. And I hope that you are not trying to spread suspicion on me on the basis of my first (largely “in-character”) post …

Some quick further thoughts on the others before I go. Anguirel, dancing spawn and (after her first post) Cailín, all seem to me to be being helpful and constructive. That is as I would expect, and I have no reason to view them as suspicious for now.

I would like to hear more from Lalaith, Glirdan, Sleepy and Jenny, none of whom have offered much of use so far and all of whom are capable of more.

I mentioned my suspicions of Nilp and his self-vote earler, and they hold.

And I am rather concerned over the piecemeal offerings from Kath, Valier and Elu Ancalime. Speak up, you three! It may be Day 1 and fully reasoned analysis may be difficult, if not impossible. But surely you have something more to say. Only the Ducks have anything to gain from remaining silent today.

And have we heard from Lote22 yet? I think not.

I think that's everyone.

My dinner table calls. Back later with more thoughts.

Edit: Cross-posted with a few there. But now I really do have to go. Back in about an hour.

[Mithalwen]

OK I have decided. I guess I am always inclined to expect the law of averages to assert themselves and make SpM guilty. I will hang fire. And he his showing more of hte expected sophistry in his posts I am aware this will look like spite voting - and I would have resisted it for that reason alone save for this post .

How come that someone who has read the rules enough to comment on the goose (and is that really the biggest problem? Surely when someone who has been acting like a duck, turns out not to be a duck when they die, we can probably assume that the goose is dead?) not be able to work out that the Ducks may not PM during the day? Seems to me a question someone would ask to try and suggest that they don't know because they aren't a duck. Therefore I think she is a duck.

++Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant

NB I have just checked before posting - and seen SpM's latest post which I find somewhat reassuring .

I really have to go and have no reason to change my mind. Obviously those who can stay to the end may find reason not to agree with me .

Choose wisely.

[Nogrod]

Just a time-zone issue (as the TiG -thread is full of discussion about lmp's game, I take the liberty of stating it here).

The deadline here in Finland (meaning me and Spawn) is 6AM. So you might get some early votes from the two of us - of course I don't know Spawn's normal schedule...

I have early work tomorrow, and would anyhow have to wake up at 6AM. So I think I'm going to try and get up around 5.30 (or something) to see in to the situation, and vote only at the last minute. Mostly due to the fact, that by now, I haven't got the faintest to go after.

Roa has been suspectively loud and accusing... Spm writes with reason, but twists that somewhat in uneasy ways (ducklike reasoning?). But I really wouldn't like to start trying a case on these two, at least today. As innocents, they would be great assets to us all.

So I might go and review this "not-posting" -section of mine (#65), and see, whether anyone stands there at the time... or whether there has been any enlightenmet otherwise. And I hope, you American-ordos find out the first duck during my sleep, and I just vote for her/him...

PS. Will be hanging around for a short time still, but retiring soon...

[mormegil]

*sigh* I merely try to help and knew it would go wrong by those who always find fault. SpM you want random accusations? Why? I don't always do them. Plus what's wrong with shaking my style up a bit?

I'm not entirely sure what to make of Kath. Mith brings up great points against Spawn but I may give her the benefit of the doubt. Nogrod makes me look silent in comparison. Anguriel dislikes me because he thinks I'm the goose *honk* I mean that's just silly.

Now Nilp is generally unhelpful on Day 1 and if his desire is to die I may encourage it though he may not be a duck I think it's possible. How are we to know if he continually votes for himself, and as was pointed out, would do so this time to avoid suspicious.

I do agree that there's so much chat at times that it's difficult to stay caught up.

[Valier]

Originally Posted by Morm

Now Nilp is generally unhelpful on Day 1 and if his desire is to die I may encourage it though he may not be a duck I think it's possible. How are we to know if he continually votes for himself, and as was pointed out, would do so this time to avoid suspicious.

I agree on this point. How, oh how, will we ever know when he is a bad guy? It makes me leary. I am so unsure who to vote for yet, but the day is still young (for me anyways) So I will wait till way later before I commit to a vote.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

With regard to the spat between Roa and Nogrod, I obviously see far more merit in Roa’s position. Possibly, she is a clever Duck merely prolonging the pointless discussion so as to divert us all from our task in hand. But, just as likely, she is genuinely trying to repair the damage that these Owl speculations have given rise to, as I have myself done. Difficult to say. I don’t see her aggressive behaviour as being out of character. It looks pretty standard to me. But I would like to see more in the way of helpful analysis from her, rather than merely argument about something that should never have become a central point of discussion in the first place.

Spm. before you go on just disrepute away a discussion, I hope you would pay heed to my post #70 and come up with some real arguments. I said it earlier: the ducks will gain from rhetorics, personal authority, throwing things off as self-evident etc. We villagers have nothing to lose, if we bring forward arguments and try to see, how they hold. We can share them, and the ducks just have to follow... If they are bold, the ducks would act just like you do.

And really Spm., read #70 before you answer this... You might be a romantic, believing in the all powerful Owl on our side (I hope we have one, but as I don't know, I'd like to help her/him out as much as I can), beating all the three ducks in solitary pondering - or then you are a duck yourself, trying to hinder the discussion meant to help us good guys.

This is not a question of just pure opinion, or feeling - or self-evidency.

[Lalaith]

Lote22 has indeed not yet posted, nor has she been seen on the Downs for a week. I hope she hasn't forgotten about the game...perhaps someone *cough Glirdy* could give her a nudge.

Saucie, Nogrod, I'm sorry you haven't found me helpful. I thought my point about ducks laying false death trails was quite a good one, oh well...as for who I shall vote for, I don't yet know but shall, with bedtime looming, have to make up my mind shortly.
I am veering towards Nilp - as tradition or no, I don't approve of suicide and find it singularly unhelpful under the current circumstances. It is also a good mask to hide behind.

[Kath]

Yes sorry for my lack of talking today, I will pop the reason for it on the other thread. I was sort of in and out but had no opportunity to make any significant posts.

I will try to catch up now so excuse further silence for a little longer!