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Old 01-10-2010, 08:51 AM   #1
The Mouth of Sauron
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How many Rangers of the North were there ?

When Halbarad and other Rangers caught up with Aragorn just beyong the Fords of Isen, Halbarad said that he had 30 Rangers with him, declaring : "that is all the brethren that could be gathered in haste".

That statement implies that there were others who couldn't be contacted in time. So how many Rangers of the North were there in total at the time of the War of the Ring and where were they based ?
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:19 AM   #2
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When Halbarad and other Rangers caught up with Aragorn just beyong the Fords of Isen, Halbarad said that he had 30 Rangers with him, declaring : "that is all the brethren that could be gathered in haste".

That statement implies that there were others who couldn't be contacted in time. So how many Rangers of the North were there in total at the time of the War of the Ring and where were they based ?
I don't think Tolkien ever estimated the amount of Dunedain remaining in Eriador; however, one could surmise there were at least a few hundred to several hundred, including women, children, the infirmed and the elderly, scattered across what was Arnor. I would assume there were several clans, with Aragorn as their chieftain, stationed in strategic spots to guard what remained of their fractured kingdom. I say several hundred simply because from a modern, revisionist standpoint, the gene pool would have gotten mighty thin and abherrent with a very small number continually inbreeding over the centuries. I wonder how many toes Aragorn had?
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:59 AM   #3
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Ah, Morth, the Toes of a King are the Toes of a Healer

On the one hand you'd imagine many hundreds or a few thousand or so Dunedain, as only a small proportion would be Rangers (say 10%??). The majority must have been farmers, hunters, gatherers etc to feed the population. Also the Rangers must have suffered some casualties in the fight against the Nazgul at Sarn Ford, so reducing the number of available warriors.

On the other hand, Butterbur complained of the withdrawal of their protection and of course Sharkey and the Ruffians seem to have staged their Shire coup without any Rangerly interference. This points to there being very few Rangers left to help out.

Hmm, perhaps there were more Rangers than the famous 30-or-so, but could they have been busy with something else? eg. defending their strongholds from orc raids, the wolves west of the mountains, doing some scouting and messnger duties for the Brethren, or something else??
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:49 AM   #4
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Ah, Morth, the Toes of a King are the Toes of a Healer

On the one hand you'd imagine many hundreds or a few thousand or so Dunedain, as only a small proportion would be Rangers (say 10%??). The majority must have been farmers, hunters, gatherers etc to feed the population.
That is assuming that there was a formal deifinition for being a ranger as such. The rangers must have lived off something (Aragaorn did have coins) and I don't think it was all charity. I imagine that many of them worked their land or followed their trade much of the time but would go out into the wild as a ranger when called upon.

So on that basis, any male Dundeain who was old enough and able enough to be of any use in ranger activities was a ranger.

The idea of a professional full time army didn't really arise until the Renaissance period.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:17 AM   #5
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That is assuming that there was a formal deifinition for being a ranger as such. The rangers must have lived off something (Aragaorn did have coins) and I don't think it was all charity. I imagine that many of them worked their land or followed their trade much of the time but would go out into the wild as a ranger when called upon.

So on that basis, any male Dundeain who was old enough and able enough to be of any use in ranger activities was a ranger.

The idea of a professional full time army didn't really arise until the Renaissance period.
*cough* The Romans had a professional full-time army.

Gondor most certainly had a professional full-time army and what's more there is a specific reference in the book to the "Rangers of Ithilien" who are clearly soldiers. Aragorn is definitely a full-time Ranger and although no doubt any able bodied Dunedain male could have taken up arms and helped out in a pinch I'd imagine that most of the Rangers were "full time". These guys were guarding places like the Shire - this couldn't really be considered a casual job.

As to how many Rangers there were in Eriador ... it's unlikely that there could have only been 30 (or 31 if you add Aragorn). Presumably there were other Rangers who were still guarding the women and the children of Aragorn's kinfolk in the North. We know that the watch over the Shire and Bree was affected due to the absence of Rangers, but it's unlikely that the Rangers' settlements would have been left unguarded. There would have been little point in overseeing a victory over Sauron and then returning home to find all the women and children had been carried off and/or slaughtered by orcs (or other dark forces).

Just at a guess I'd imagine that there were probably a minimum of 100 full-time Rangers and at least an equal number of other men. Then there must have been around 200 women, plus 100 children under the age of 18. So that's 500 already. That's not a huge number - there were probably more than 500 people living in Bree, and there must have been thousands of Hobbits living in the Shire. Halbarad's apology for only bringing 30 Rangers certainly implies that there were a lot more than just 30. Presumably that was just the number that could rounded up within a day's ride or so, and Eriador is a big place.

On the hand if there'd been 1000 Rangers then there would have been less of a problem sending a reasonable detachment off to Aragorn and still maintaining a watch over Eriador, so there can't have been that many.

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Old 01-20-2010, 04:38 AM   #6
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Point taken for the Romans. Maybe also Gondor, being a properly organised state, modelled maybe on the Roman empire, would have had a properly enrolled and salaried army. But most other countries and states of Middle-earth probably lacked that level of sophistication.

Also, I do accept that Aragorn probably didn't have any job besides being a Ranger. He was in the fortunate position of being in Elrond's favour and would have received support from Rivendell.

Maybe some other rangers besides himself also enjoyed that priviledge, but there would have been a limit to how many of them (and their families) Elrond's purse, generosity and goodwill could have supported.

The fact that the rangers were keeping watch does not mean they were on sentry duties. It could also mean that they were keeping a watchful eye while going about other things. They may have lived in scattered homesteads and would have been aware of anything that moved in their vicinity and would have taken action as required.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:36 PM   #7
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*cough* The Romans had a professional full-time army.
The idea of a full-time standing army has been around since Sumer. But the interesting thing is that soldiers were always paid by their country, whereas I can't imagine that the Rangers would have been paid, as they would be the ones who would have done the paying.

I'm sure whenever they got to a Dunedan settlement they would be given free food and a place to stay, but judging by the way Butterbur talks of them I can't imagine that anyone in Bree, or anywhere else, would do so. Which means they must have either been self-sufficient (which suggests that there were a larger number), or that they traded with other nearby peoples. But what would they be trading? I can't think of anything they'd have that anyone else would want, especially with their reputation- I'm sure if people traded with them they would have a better reputation and be more well-known. But how else would they have got resources such as metal?
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:15 PM   #8
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Hi All,

another point to throw into the mix is that the Dunedain stronghold in the Third Age was in the 'Angle', South of Rivendell, this was noted by Michael Martinez when going through the Marquette papers. So there was a Ranger 'HQ' if you like where presumably the non-combatant Dunedain lived.

Since the leaders of the Rangers were Chieftains rather than Kings, I'm more tempted to think of them as organised similarly to some Dark Age societies. A chieftain/local king/prince/whatever, would have a bodyguard of 'full time' warriors. These were variously called Hearthtroops, Huscarls, Loafeaters, or Bucellarii in Byzantium, showing that they ate their Lord's bread, ie were maintained by the power and fortune of their leader.

The bodyguard were available for military use at any time, but were only a small proportion of the available fighting men. The majority would be freemen, who were mostly farmers etc and turned out to fight only when something really serious was happening, eg Anglo-Saxon Fyrd.

Exactly how this might relate to the Dunedain is an open question!

Re Eonwe on Dunedain economics, well, JRRT wasn't exactly crystal clear on that sort of thing. In the system mentioned above, (pre-feudal I guess) the Lord and his bodyguard were supported by taxes or contribution from the general population, and often by loot acquired in campaigns against the neighbours. The Dunedain did have a 'special relationship' with Elrond & co. but that's another kettle of fish. I suppose they could trade with the Dwarves and Bree as well maybe? Just to speculate I guess it would be a great 'cover story' for a Ranger to act as a trader while patrolling and keeping the peace, and give the chance to make the odd silver penny too.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:49 PM   #9
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I can't think of anything they'd have that anyone else would want, especially with their reputation- I'm sure if people traded with them they would have a better reputation and be more well-known. But how else would they have got resources such as metal?
The Dúnedain of Arnor were able to save many of their posessions from the sack of Fornost by the Witch-king, such as weapons and heirlooms. I don't think it's out of the question for them to have hidden treasure and money also. At any rate, the Witch-king and his men were defeated and driven off permanently, so whatever they had gotten from looting the Dúnedain probably wouldn't have been that difficult to recover. Arnor at one time had been the great kingdom of the North, and they could have still had money left over from those days, enough to sustain a much diminished population.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:22 PM   #10
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I can't think of anything they'd have that anyone else would want, especially with their reputation- I'm sure if people traded with them they would have a better reputation and be more well-known. But how else would they have got resources such as metal?
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The Dúnedain of Arnor were able to save many of their posessions from the sack of Fornost by the Witch-king, such as weapons and heirlooms. I don't think it's out of the question for them to have hidden treasure and money also. At any rate, the Witch-king and his men were defeated and driven off permanently, so whatever they had gotten from looting the Dúnedain probably wouldn't have been that difficult to recover. Arnor at one time had been the great kingdom of the North, and they could have still had money left over from those days, enough to sustain a much diminished population.
The Dunedain had the aid of Elrond and Imladris. Besides heirlooms of Arnorion origin, it is more than likely the Dunedain were equipped by the friendly forges of Rivendell (in much the same way the Noldor reforged Narsil into Anduril, sheltered Dunedain chieftains, and went out on joint martial missions). Think about it, without the aid of Elrond over many centuries, the chieftains of the Dunedain would have faded into memory long before the War of the Ring.
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:36 PM   #11
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Again, it is very clear that the story is centered around aiding the Rangers of the North and gathering Aragorn's dunedain allies, all of whom are in Eriador, not Mirkwood. If there was a new area being added that would be the first thing they would advertise. Instead they advertise a new story centered in Eriador, an expansion of four existing skirmishes and a new skirmish which takes place in the Rift, which is obviously in Angmar. Do I think this is all that will be included in Book 1? No, but when they release these teasers they always include the exciting important stuff and there is no mention of a new land mass (which would be very exciting and important), so it is much more logical to assume that we will be adventuring in places we have already been.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:50 PM   #12
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I wish I had but the slightest idea what you're talking about...
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:57 PM   #13
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I wish I had but the slightest idea what you're talking about...
Good to see I wasn't the only one flummoxed by that. I thought at first it could be a reference to the PJ movies, but I didn't remember even PJ making up events in something called the 'Rift'.
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:15 PM   #14
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Good to see I wasn't the only one flummoxed by that. I thought at first it could be a reference to the PJ movies, but I didn't remember even PJ making up events in something called the 'Rift'.
I imagine that it's something to do with the Lord of the Rings Online Game.

Back to the substance of the thread:

The North Kingdom was effectively discontinued in T.A. 1975, most probably because there were too few Dunedain left. Also at the time I imagine that they were scattered and in disarray after the fall of Fornost to the Witch King.

I'm not sure how big Fornost or Annuminas were - they were perhaps nowhere near as large as Minas Tirith - but I imagine that they would have required several thousand citizens, at least, to be viable cities.

That places an upper limit on how many Dunedain of the North lived in Eriador. If there were still thousands of them then they might have tried to re-establish at least one of the cities.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:27 PM   #15
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A lot of conjecture here and opinions and such. Michael Martinez covers a lot of the 'what ifs' and 'I thinks' in his writings on the Dunedain, and I myself have a somewhat non-canonical interpretation of them based on some RP and stories I've written over the years. But for a moment, let's look at what Tolkien wrote on the Dunedain Rangers in the various books...

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Few now remember them ... yet still some go wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless. Tom Bombadil … The Fellowship of the Ring I - Fog on the Barrow-downs
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Rangers - The Dúnedain of the North after the fall of the North Kingdom, secret guardians of Eriador (Unfinished Tales, index)
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They came to Sarn Ford and the southernmost borders of the Shire. They found them guarded, for the Rangers barred their way.……some fled northward … Some still dared to bar the ford and held it while the day lasted. (Unfinished Tales, The Hunt for the Ring)
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…the Dúnedain of the North, ……..a strange people wandering secretly in the wild, and other men knew not their homes nor the purpose of their journeys, and save in Imladris, in the House of Elrond, their ancestry was forgotten.(Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age)
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When the kingdom ended the Dúnedain passed into the shadows and became a secret and wandering people, and their deeds and labours were seldom sung or recorded. Little is now remembered of them since Elrond departed.... (Lord of the Rings, Appendix A)
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in the wild lands beyond Bree there were mysterious wanderers. The Bree folk called them Rangers and knew nothing of their origin. They were taller and darker than the Men of Bree and were believed to have strange powers of sight and hearing, and to understand the language of beasts and birds. They roamed at will southwards and eastwards even as far as the Misty Mountains; but they were now few and rarely seen. (Lord of the Rings, At the Sign of the Prancing Pony)
Aragorn said of the land and his abilities:
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There is food in the wild,’ said Strider ‘berry, root and herb; and I have some skill as a hunter at need.’ (Lord of the Rings, A Knife in the Dark)
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’Rangers have been here lately. It is they who left the firewood behind.’(Lord of the Rings, A Knife in the Dark)
Halbarad said:
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‘I have thirty with me.’ said Halbarad ‘That is all of our kindred that could be gathered in haste; (Lord of the Rings, The Passing of the Grey Company)
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A little apart the Rangers sat, silent, in an ordered company, armed with spear and bow and sword. They were clad in cloaks of dark grey, and their hoods were cast now over helm and head. Their horses were strong and of proud bearing, but rough-haired;…….There was no gleam of stone or gold, nor any fair thing in all their gear or harness; nor did their riders bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like a rayed star. (Lord of the Rings, The Passing of the Grey Company)
If there is more written specifically about the Dunedain of the North and they being Rangers by Tolkien, I would like to know.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:46 AM   #16
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Sting

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A little apart the Rangers sat, silent, in an ordered company, armed with spear and bow and sword. They were clad in cloaks of dark grey, and their hoods were cast now over helm and head. Their horses were strong and of proud bearing, but rough-haired;…….There was no gleam of stone or gold, nor any fair thing in all their gear or harness; nor did their riders bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like a rayed star. (Lord of the Rings, The Passing of the Grey Company)

...but if I see any silver rayed-star brooches, I'll snap one up....
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:13 PM   #17
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Yeah, that would be cool eh. I wonder how big they are.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:48 AM   #18
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I don't remember who said that the lack of patrolling in Bree and the Shire after the summoning of the Grey Company indicates that they were too few and possibly lessened after the attack at Sarn Ford,but this attack was done before the Hobbits reached the Pancing Pony.

Of cource ,the answer to that is that it happened only ONE week before.However,if the Rangers fighting in Sarn Ford were such a number that their defeat caused such an elimination,wouldn't this gathering be mentionned by somebody-implying Burlyman-?No matter how vast Eriador was,if they were rarely seen,wouldn't a team of at least 30 be, a surprise?Because according to this theory the warriors must have been 100 or so.But if so,how did these people manage to survive through almost half an Age of attacks,plagues,the Winter and who knows what else having so few defenders?

Bearing in mind that Ghudaband is quite close,a population of several hundreds defending their own households seems a rather logical explanation.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:28 PM   #19
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I think the speculation on numbers of the Northern Dunedain, and their battle-worthy male population of Rangers, comes from the fact their "numbers were too few" to re-establish a kingdom after the fall of the Witch-king in third age 1975, and only 'thirty (Rangers) could be gathered in haste' in third age 3019. Factoring in they 'kept their blood pure', and there was enough men and women to procreate through the years, and they logically wouldn't have left the homelands completely devoid of fighting men, one could assume from all this that maybe there were 50 to maybe 80 or so Rangers in total, and many more Dunedain people when the elderly, women, and children are factored in. Yet they were a 'wandering people' so they didn't have towns... it does make for quite a puzzle.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:33 AM   #20
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I've applied science, history, and advanced mathematical thinking to this question and I've come up with the answer. There were 33 Rangers: Aragorn, Halbarad plus the thirty that rode with him, and Eddie The Unready.

Eddie was always on the verge of undertaking quests and/or participating in Ranger-related activities, but he never quite made it. There was always something keeping him from leaving his hovel.

"I'll be with you in a minute, Halbarad. I just have to mend my jerkin, I can't have the Sons of Elrond seeing me in this ratty old thing. And then there's the goldfish to feed, of course."

"Come on Eddie, we'll be halfway to Tharbad before you've done that."

"Just a sec, old Halby, I'll get my shoes on. Oh look, there's a head of lettuce that needs washing. I'll be out in two ticks."
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:28 AM   #21
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Oh,so just in case there was victorybut all the Grey Company was dead,the only Dunadan left to lead the people would be Eddie?
Then they would have perished for sure!
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:44 PM   #22
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Eddy the bar-fly at the Forsaken Inn....
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:11 PM   #23
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Again that bloody Inn?
Come on ,there must have been a good reason for it to be Forsaken
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:59 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by shadowfax View Post
The fact that the rangers were keeping watch does not mean they were on sentry duties. It could also mean that they were keeping a watchful eye while going about other things. They may have lived in scattered homesteads and would have been aware of anything that moved in their vicinity and would have taken action as required.
I sort of think of the rangers as a police force. They may have been like sentries living in small communities (like Turin and his band of outlaws) in the woods. They had to be capable of hunting and living off the land for an extended period of time. Maybe they did this for short periods before returning to society for a season (where they had regular jobs), and then once again taking another shift in the wild later on. Maybe the people in and around Eriador paid taxes to help fund the rangers?

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Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings View Post
As to how many Rangers there were in Eriador ... it's unlikely that there could have only been 30 (or 31 if you add Aragorn). Presumably there were other Rangers who were still guarding the women and the children of Aragorn's kinfolk in the North. We know that the watch over the Shire and Bree was affected due to the absence of Rangers, but it's unlikely that the Rangers' settlements would have been left unguarded. There would have been little point in overseeing a victory over Sauron and then returning home to find all the women and children had been carried off and/or slaughtered by orcs (or other dark forces).
I don't know how many of the Dunedain escaped the sinking of Numenor, but I think it's safe to say that they would have married with other humans they met in Eriador. With that being said, there were probably at least a hundred rangers with thousands of people living in the region leading up to the events in the Lord of the Rings. The rangers would probably behave as peace keepers and security guards, and they would be scattered around the entire region. So it would have been a little difficult to gather more than thirty to meet up with Aragorn, and it would have been very unwise to not leave behind a force to defend their homelands. I guess thirty is a reasonable number to meet up with Aragorn if an equal or greater number is left behind. Did they know that they could expect to find Aragorn alive at that point or just how much their aid was needed by him?

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Originally Posted by Rumil View Post
Also the Rangers must have suffered some casualties in the fight against the Nazgul at Sarn Ford, so reducing the number of available warriors.
A good question (and an unanswerable question at that) would be how many rangers fell in their battle with the Nazgul at the border of the Shire? This is one action sequence that would have been cool to see in the Fellowship of the Ring. I imagine the rangers suffered some significant loss in the battle.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:52 PM   #25
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I sort of think of the rangers as a police force. They may have been like sentries living in small communities (like Turin and his band of outlaws) in the woods. They had to be capable of hunting and living off the land for an extended period of time.
Or rather like what Túrin's original band had developped into at the time of Dor Cúarthol. But yes, that's more or less how I'd imagine them - with a couple of safe havens like Bar-en-Danwedh to retreat to and meet at (I think Tolkien mentions somewhere that they had a settlement or 'fastness' of sorts in the Angle, but there may have been more than one).

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Originally Posted by Archaic Elf
Maybe the people in and around Eriador paid taxes to help fund the rangers?
Meaning who? The likes of Barliman Butterbur (see Eönwë's post above)? Judging from his example, most of them didn't realize or appreciate what the Rangers were actually doing until the watch was weakened when the Rangers were busy elsewhere - let alone pay money for it.

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Originally Posted by Archaic Elf
A good question (and an unanswerable question at that) would be how many rangers fell in their battle with the Nazgul at the border of the Shire? This is one action sequence that would have been cool to see in the Fellowship of the Ring. I imagine the rangers suffered some significant loss in the battle.
Yeah, that would be nice to see. Someone should suggest it to all those fan movie makers out there.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:31 PM   #26
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Thanks for the response Pitchwife. I've read the Hobbit, LOTR, Silmarillion (my favorite book), and Unfinished Tales, so I'll try to be useful around here.

Yeah, taxes would be a stretch, but I'm just throwing ideas out there. I imagine the rangers would be self financed more than anything, so they might work for a period before going on a long shift protecting the borders from orcs, wolves, and other creatures.

A thankless job no doubt. I guess that's where the desire for revenge against Sauron and all his minions helps to fuel their fire to do such an incredibly necessary job.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:05 AM   #27
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Thanks for getting some good discussion going here!

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I don't know how many of the Dunedain escaped the sinking of Numenor, but I think it's safe to say that they would have married with other humans they met in Eriador.
Actually, it's said clearly somewhere (i believe in the Appendices) that the Northern Dunedain (Arnor) kept their bloodline relatively pure as opposed to the Southern Dunedain (Gondor) where there was considerable intermingling with the Northmen of Rhovanion.This led to the 'Kin Strife' in Gondor. So there was a dwindling numbers of the Dunedain in the north over the years, especially it their keeping their bloodlines Dunedain. The question of numbers of Rangers at the time of the War of the Ring, and where they lived and raised families, are a mystery answered by some great speculation.

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Originally Posted by Archaic Elf View Post
A good question (and an unanswerable question at that) would be how many rangers fell in their battle with the Nazgul at the border of the Shire? This is one action sequence that would have been cool to see in the Fellowship of the Ring. I imagine the rangers suffered some significant loss in the battle.
I think they were just 'scattered' and driven off. No mention of any deaths that I am aware of.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:34 AM   #28
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A good question (and an unanswerable question at that) would be how many rangers fell in their battle with the Nazgul at the border of the Shire? This is one action sequence that would have been cool to see in the Fellowship of the Ring. I imagine the rangers suffered some significant loss in the battle.
I think they were just 'scattered' and driven off. No mention of any deaths that I am aware of.
The idea that some of the Rangers died in the action at Sarn Ford comes from the UT chapter The Hunt for the Ring.

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Some [Dúnedain] fled northward, hoping to bear news to Aragorn, but they were pursued and slain or driven away into the wild.
I wouldn't think there would have been all that many Rangers guarding the Ford to begin with; probably enough to turn away dodgy looking characters, but that's about it. They weren't expecting the Nazgûl to show up, after all.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:10 AM   #29
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Actually, it's said clearly somewhere (i believe in the Appendices) that the Northern Dunedain (Arnor) kept their bloodline relatively pure as opposed to the Southern Dunedain (Gondor) where there was considerable intermingling with the Northmen of Rhovanion.This led to the 'Kin Strife' in Gondor. So there was a dwindling numbers of the Dunedain in the north over the years, especially it their keeping their bloodlines Dunedain. The question of numbers of Rangers at the time of the War of the Ring, and where they lived and raised families, are a mystery answered by some great speculation.
Yes, but....



The thing is, Elendil's four ships (plus Isildur's and Anarion's in Gondor) were not the only sources of Dunedain. The Numenoreans had been settling the coasts of Middle-earth for centuries, and the Faithful especially had been fleeing to regions near Gil-galad's realm (that is to say, Arnor) and about the mouth of Anduin (later Gondor). Although the arrival of Elendil's ships were undoubtedly a major catalyst in terms of culture and independence, and depending on the size of these vessels (presumably quite mighty), a boost to population, I don't think we need assume that the Dunedainic population of the realms-in-exile was limited to the descendants of these last-comers. Tharbad and Pelargir were both cities that predated Elendil (as was Umbar) and there were presumably Dunedain in the countryside as well.

Personally, I think where Elendil's arrival was most crucial was in the fact that he brought news of Numenor's end, and a clear royal presence to Middle-earth, the two ingredients that Arnor and Gondor were awaiting to break from Numenor. It's also possible that the highly talented craftsmen who fashioned the Argonath, Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, Osgiliath, Isengard, etc, etc, were in the train of Elendil--the elite who remained in Numenor where they could find employ despite being of the Faithful, until the bitter end. It strikes me as very likely that most of Elendil's company were the elite of Numenor, whereas the larger, older population of the Faithful-in-exile were of lower class background, having left for exile far sooner.
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:31 PM   #30
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Leaf Aristocracy

This thread, besides the question of demographics, also gets into the question of elites and aristocracy. Implicitly, Tolkien paints a world with sometimes incredible achievements of civilization by very sparse populations. Gondor was unusually densely populated but at most only in the 100,000's. The achievements one might ascribe to the special gifts of Elves/Eldar and Dunedain.

Tolkien also is rather egalitarian or a least benign in his portrayal of social strata; it is fantasy. In general, one might consider the Dunedain to represent for large part a kind of aristocracy or nobility in both Arnor and Gondor, with exceptions either way, under which were larger numbers of mostly: (1) Southmen (like the natives of the White Mountains or Breelanders, and also seemingly a little related to the House of Haleth), and (2) Northmen (Edain-related people of Rhovanion in Gondor and many of the allied peoples of the North, who appear to derive mostly from the House of Beor), as well as Hobbits.

Even before the fall of Numenor (especially in Gondor), the Dunedain presumably dominated the land-owning, military retinues, guards and other elite activities (but probably large standing armies did not exist), in leading and protecting a broad class of regular freemen (never seemingly "serfs" in any way) that largely consisted of people with non-Dunedain ancestry. In Arnor, however, these "allies" were apparently quite reduced after the War of the Last Alliance.

In Gondor, which was also not a rigidly stratified or negatively feudal society, there was considerable admixture and lessening of distinctions and purity over more than 3,000 years(!), which had both its pros & cons, a Faramir ruefully comments.

In the North, even as the Dunedain were relatively small in number (especially after the disaster of Gladden Fields), their allied/subject people were also not numerous, and like the Dunedain they shrunk through the centuries as a result of disease, famine, floods, extreme winters, Angmar & its servants, and even internecine warfare.

Recall, Arnor's decline more than anything arose from disunity. A presumably rather small number of Dunedain (including some of high rank) were lost through absorption by and eventual destruction of the mysterious hill-people. Cardolan's Dunedain were probably significant and only somewhat interbred, but they and other inhabitants of that region were, sooner or later, all but wiped out.

So, we are really talking about the remnant of Arthedain's Dunedain, who might have numbered as many as, say, 10,000 at one point. They seem to have kept separate from the Bree folk, but they probably did assimilate with what remained of the Beorian peoples of the North, who appear to be entirely gone by the time of the War of the Rings, and for example, might have been the previous inhabitants of the Shire.

Relatively numerous and pure-blood, the Arthedain people still shrunk because of plague, war and evidently low birth rates, so that in the aftermath of the Battle of Fornost, a good guess might be 1,000–2,000, a great many of which were women and children, or sooner or later, would have blended into the countryside or left for other places.

As for the Dunedain of the North—many of whose fighting-age men became the illustrious Rangers—they comprised a core group that might reasonably be guessed at (by others above) around 1,000. They evidently maintained, at times, rather long-term settlements around Lake Evendim and The Angle, but probably dwelt secretly in a number of places at any given time, with some degree of nomadic behavior.

How many could and did engage in really active and dedicated Ranger operations is hard to say. Though still rather long-lived, many probably did not compare with Aragorn's longevity, so that probably still many men were too young (not trained and seasoned enough) or too old (to undertake the rigors of extended patrols).

If Aragorn can be taken as a model, the Rangers did not normally go out armored or well-armed, or even in groups, any of which would have attracted too much attention. For the more oblivious of Bree and The Shire, they were just loners wondering about. So, to help effectively maintain a semblance of peace and order, the Rangers in general had to practice rather well-honed and difficult skills. Their opponents, of course, were often easily cowed ruffians or wayward orcs.

Ultimately, despite the Rangers, evil got through or out into Eriador. Even the westward Shire had to defend itself at times and maintain a border guard, and evidently there were small hamlets in the Northeast that fell victim to Trolls. Eriador's main protection was that it was so empty, even if beyond Bree there were undoubtedly supposed to be small villages of Big People farmers here and there.

So, starting with an overall group of 1,000, probably only about 100 were on active Ranger duty at any given time. This they did as continuing service to their subjects, who they had an obligation to protect, and one might say as a form of penance.

The Watch on The Shire might have brought a few more out, so that maybe as many as 30 could have gathered at Sarn Ford alone as the Ringwraiths approached, including having some better armament at hand, but not much or they could have withstood the Ringwraiths far longer (was it some or all nine?). I doubt that a significant number of Rangers were supposed to have been killed by The Nine, although more might have been put out of action for a long while.

I see the Dunedain of the North living rather comfortably, albeit in rustic, impermanent and widely scattered settlements. Some of the menfolk were likely involved in special skills or trades or in maintaining herds and some farmland, but I doubt that they were self-sufficient in terms of food and other necessities. Like the maybe few hundred Eldar in Rivendell, they likely had relatively great wealth to draw on, and they also had opportunities to undertake trade with Lindon, Blue Mountain dwarves, and local agrarian folks, for which people in the more isolated farming villages, or perhaps a Farmer Maggot, were more cognizant of the what the Rangers were all about.

Beyond being low-key scouts, foiling the luckless baddie that might seek to despoil or enthrall whatever little or big people still lived in Eriador, the Dunedain of the North also may have frequently engaged in more organized campaigns (possibly at times with Elrond's people) to take out orc hot spots in the Misty Mountains or the like. Probably more than Ranger work, such efforts tended to keep their numbers in check.

In such cases, they could have armed and horsed themselves as well (though not as splendidly) as any in Middle-Earth, like the 30 that came south to aid Aragorn. In theory, the might have amassed 200–250 men, even if some would have had to stay and guard their own noncombatants, depending on the circumstances. Nevertheless, in light of their dispersed dwellings and activities, such a mustering would have taken a month or more and was never done, and that forays over the centuries into the Misty Mountains or what not were undertaken but by 50–75 at most.

In any case, it is entirely reasonable that only 30 could be gathered to aid Aragorn in no more than a week's time. Anyone would have had to have been locatable with two days. These would have been limited in terms of those in probably the environs of Rivendell, getting themselves provisioned for an unusually long journey, and seeing to security of the particular settlements involved.

So, I come up with 30 being a relatively small representation of the total strength of the still modestly sized Dunedain of North. Why then, though, are The Shire and Bree seemingly left unguarded during the War of The Rings?

Well, as word spread out further from Elrond after Halbarad's departure, including news about the general eruption of war, as witnessed by Frodo from the Hill of Seeing, the Dunedain of the North probably continued to gather and organize. They should have concluded that Bree and The Shire could and would need to see to their own defense. This proved to be the case for Bree, and The Shire would have been just fine but for Saruman's having undermined it from within, which the Rangers could not have stopped, and evidently, like Gandalf, did not fully foresee.

Generally, I assume that the Dunedain of the North gathered and deployed their strength as follows at that time in a generally eastward direction:
1. To, of course, bolster the guard of their own people and settlements;
2. Possibly step up Ranger-like supervision of what tiny, more vulnerable communities might still have existed in pockets of eastern Eriador to counter Enemy-induced raids by mountain orcs or Dunlenders;
3. Others may have followed in the path of the Grey Company, but arrived too late in Rohan and then Gondor to directly assist Aragorn; or
4. Possibly in conjunction with some of Rivendell, a larger number could very well have marshaled themselves in an attempt to disrupt Misty Mountain orc groups, in order to help relieve the beleaguered Beornings and elves of Lothlorien, and so not miss out in contributing to the greatest events of the age.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:55 PM   #31
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That is one long explanation! I like it though! Nice analysis!
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