Moria Balrog - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tarlondeion Of Gondolin · 12-08-2001, 03:27 PM

Some boards have said that the Balrogs were not under the control of Sauron because he was weak without the ring. And yet the Balrog just happened to be there with an army of goblins at the right time. What a coincidence. Could the Balrog have felt the ring and come after it so that it could gain power or? Could Sauron have actually been controlling it? Could it have been acting on its own initiative for Sauron? Was it just a coincidence that it turned up then?

Inziladun · 12-08-2001, 04:48 PM

Actually the Balrog had been in Moria a very long time, since the end of the First Age. It had hidden there , and was disturbed by the Dwarves in the Third Age. That being the case, I don't see how it could have even known about the Ring. I don't think Sauron was actively controlling it, but his thought did have an effect on many evil creatures. Since the Balrog was a servant of Morgoth as was Sauron, it would likely do whatever it could to aid Sauron generally.

[ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: Inziladun ]

obloquy · 12-08-2001, 06:50 PM

I agree with Inziladun.
It's possible that all Sauron would've had to do was offer it a position.

We know that when Morgoth wasn't around, the Balrogs waited for him to return. The Balrog of Moria was probably waiting for the Dark Lord to come to power again. If Sauron had become the dominant power in Middle-earth, the Balrog and any other creatures of Morgoth that were hiding away would probably have come on out and joined up with Sauron.

This is interesting to me because it shows a distinction between the Balrogs and Sauron, who were of the same order of spirits, although not necessarily of equal power. The Balrogs weren't ambitious. They didn't desire to rule. They seemed to be content as military captains.

Elrian · 12-08-2001, 09:41 PM

Perhaps the Balrog sensed Gandalf's presence, and not the rings, Gandalf had used a spell to hold the door , that may have attracted the Balrog.

Elenhin · 12-09-2001, 11:48 AM

Both the Orcs and the Watcher knew about the Ring (or at least Frodo's importance) so I see no reason to believe that the Balrog wasn't after the Ring.

I don't think that the Balrog was under Sauron's control - even though it was allied with his Orcs - as Sauron could surely have used the Balrog elsewhere, with a greater efficiency.

12-09-2001, 10:36 PM

I agree with elenhin. but it would make sense that the Ring attracted the Balrog. The Ring has a mind of its own. If the Balrog was the bearer, it would become part of an evil host which is similar to itself. The Ring has no good in it. So if the balrog weilded it, then the Ring would be alot more comfortable and on its way to its master no doubt.

But i have a question about the Balrog. I cant remember it completely but i beleive it said in Book I "The Fellowship" that there was also a Balrog in the dark Tower. If that was so... wouldnt it have been involved somewhere in the battle where the King Nazgul was killed?

sorry if that question is hard to understand. Its been a while since i read the books.

Elrian · 12-09-2001, 11:47 PM

I think if the ring had attracted the Balrog it would have attacked much sooner than it did. Not saying that the watcher didn't sense it, but why wait until it's close enough to the other entrance to attack.

Elenhin · 12-10-2001, 06:23 AM

Thaurarda: You're probably thinking of what Legolas said of the Balrog in Lorien. "It was a Balrog of Morgoth, the most horrible of all Elf-slayers except for the One who sits in the Dark Tower" (or something like that). "The One" is a reference to Sauron in this quote.

Elrian: On the other hand, why should it hurry? It might have been slumbering and it was awakened by Pippin's stone, or Pippin's stone may have awakened some Orc-guards who then called for the Balrog... or perhaps the Balrog needed time to gather all the Orcs together.

12-10-2001, 06:01 PM

Ahh! i c now. thanx for clearing that up for me Elenhin.

obloquy · 12-10-2001, 07:14 PM

Depending on how big you picture the Balrog (which should be enormous if you believe he had literal wall-to-wall wings), his delay might fit in nicely. He may have had to take a longer route with more spacious halls and doorways.

I don't agree with that, personally, but it's something for you pro-wingers. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

12-08-2001, 03:27 PM	#1
Tarlondeion Of Gondolin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Gondolin the fair Posts: 94	Moria Balrog Some boards have said that the Balrogs were not under the control of Sauron because he was weak without the ring. And yet the Balrog just happened to be there with an army of goblins at the right time. What a coincidence. Could the Balrog have felt the ring and come after it so that it could gain power or? Could Sauron have actually been controlling it? Could it have been acting on its own initiative for Sauron? Was it just a coincidence that it turned up then?

12-08-2001, 04:48 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,034	Actually the Balrog had been in Moria a very long time, since the end of the First Age. It had hidden there , and was disturbed by the Dwarves in the Third Age. That being the case, I don't see how it could have even known about the Ring. I don't think Sauron was actively controlling it, but his thought did have an effect on many evil creatures. Since the Balrog was a servant of Morgoth as was Sauron, it would likely do whatever it could to aid Sauron generally. [ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: Inziladun ] __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

12-08-2001, 09:41 PM	#4
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Perhaps the Balrog sensed Gandalf's presence, and not the rings, Gandalf had used a spell to hold the door , that may have attracted the Balrog. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

12-09-2001, 11:47 PM	#7
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	I think if the ring had attracted the Balrog it would have attacked much sooner than it did. Not saying that the watcher didn't sense it, but why wait until it's close enough to the other entrance to attack. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

12-08-2001, 06:50 PM	#3
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 935	I agree with Inziladun. It's possible that all Sauron would've had to do was offer it a position. We know that when Morgoth wasn't around, the Balrogs waited for him to return. The Balrog of Moria was probably waiting for the Dark Lord to come to power again. If Sauron had become the dominant power in Middle-earth, the Balrog and any other creatures of Morgoth that were hiding away would probably have come on out and joined up with Sauron. This is interesting to me because it shows a distinction between the Balrogs and Sauron, who were of the same order of spirits, although not necessarily of equal power. The Balrogs weren't ambitious. They didn't desire to rule. They seemed to be content as military captains.

12-09-2001, 11:48 AM	#5
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	Both the Orcs and the Watcher knew about the Ring (or at least Frodo's importance) so I see no reason to believe that the Balrog wasn't after the Ring. I don't think that the Balrog was under Sauron's control - even though it was allied with his Orcs - as Sauron could surely have used the Balrog elsewhere, with a greater efficiency.

12-09-2001, 10:36 PM	#6
Thaurarda Guest Posts: n/a	I agree with elenhin. but it would make sense that the Ring attracted the Balrog. The Ring has a mind of its own. If the Balrog was the bearer, it would become part of an evil host which is similar to itself. The Ring has no good in it. So if the balrog weilded it, then the Ring would be alot more comfortable and on its way to its master no doubt. But i have a question about the Balrog. I cant remember it completely but i beleive it said in Book I "The Fellowship" that there was also a Balrog in the dark Tower. If that was so... wouldnt it have been involved somewhere in the battle where the King Nazgul was killed? sorry if that question is hard to understand. Its been a while since i read the books.

12-10-2001, 06:23 AM	#8
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	Thaurarda: You're probably thinking of what Legolas said of the Balrog in Lorien. "It was a Balrog of Morgoth, the most horrible of all Elf-slayers except for the One who sits in the Dark Tower" (or something like that). "The One" is a reference to Sauron in this quote. Elrian: On the other hand, why should it hurry? It might have been slumbering and it was awakened by Pippin's stone, or Pippin's stone may have awakened some Orc-guards who then called for the Balrog... or perhaps the Balrog needed time to gather all the Orcs together.

12-10-2001, 06:01 PM	#9
Thaurarda Guest Posts: n/a	Ahh! i c now. thanx for clearing that up for me Elenhin.

12-10-2001, 07:14 PM	#10
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 935	Depending on how big you picture the Balrog (which should be enormous if you believe he had literal wall-to-wall wings), his delay might fit in nicely. He may have had to take a longer route with more spacious halls and doorways. I don't agree with that, personally, but it's something for you pro-wingers. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]