Watch this Clip NOW

[davem]

http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/sear...kien&go=Search

First video clip on right hand column

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Davem...


You win the Internet.

Thank you very much for this little film thing! It is so great to hear the professor himself speak of matters of the elder days and not The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings only. I like his quote "Men are... Men are just men."

[narfforc]

Cheers Davem, great clips

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Wow, davem, great, thanks very much! (ahem... had to listen to it three times to decipher what Prof's talking about... I calmed myself that after all, it's an old material...)

[davem]

This is my attempt at a transcript - anyone do better?

Everybody including divine spirits under God in this mythology makes mistakes. Of coudse the Gods made a primary error instead of leaving the Elves & Men to find out their way under the guidance of God they invited the Elves, because the rebel among them, the wicked god, Melkor was alive, had devastated a large part of the world, they took them back into their paradise in the West to protect them & so that the whole machinery starts from the, er, the rebellion of the Elves & therefore the rebellion of the evil they did in their bursting out from Paradise & therefore what you've got in our period is two lots of Elves, one that never started, just didn't bother to be anything higher than they were; they're the ordinary woodland Elves of the far east, those who started to go to the Divine Paradise & never got there, which are the Grey Elves of the West & those who got & came back as Exiles. The High Elves, who sing this song to Elbereth in the beginning of Lord of the Rings are Exiles who'd once known what it was to see the demiurgic gods in person.

Now Dwarves create a difficulty don't they, in this particular thing? They have certain grievances against Men & against Elves. They're incarnate in bodies rather like ourselves; we don't know much about them. They apparently are mortal though they are longeval. Where do they come into the scheme? Well, of course gave a great deal of thought, er to, to find their origin. I don't think I'll say anything about it at the moment, but they have a rational origin related to that theme, but they're not, er, a part of the Children of God. that's all I can really say about this. Men? Men are just Men.

[Lalaith]

This clip is fantastic, thank you Davem.

The stuff he is saying is fascinating, but so is the body language.
He really doesn't like talking about elves. His eyes are darting about all over the place, and he keeps covering his mouth with his hands.
Then he talks about dwarves, he's much happier, he looks straight into the camera.
Where's Kuru? He'd be delighted....

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

The stuff he is saying is fascinating, but so is the body language.
He really doesn't like talking about elves. His eyes are darting about all over the place, and he keeps covering his mouth with his hands.
Then he talks about dwarves, he's much happier, he looks straight into the camera.
Where's Kuru? He'd be delighted....

Well, I actually think he's not much happy with the camera in the first place...

[Lalaith]

Well yes, that's what I thought, too.
But I also think he thinks of the elves as more, well, private to him.

[Bêthberry]

Great find, davem.

If that video clip is a fair sample of The Professor's speech patterns, now I certainly understand all the comments from his students that he was not an eloquent lecturer--although I do recall W.H. Auden lauding him on his readings of Beowulf.

Honestly, I felt like grabbing his cheeks and shouting, move your jaw and mouth, man, speak that we may hear ye!!!

btw, I just went back to listen a second time, and now I get a "forbidden" message that the video cannot be played.

[davem]

It seems to be an out take from the Tolkien in Oxford documentary which the BBC broadcast in 1968. Well, I say an out take, but I've only seen clips from it, but that's what it looks like anyway. Carpenter notes that he behaved 'unsfelfconsciously in front of the camera', so I'd go with Lalaith on this. He seems a bit uncomfortable trying to give a 'soundbite' of The Sil. Interesting that he doesn't want to discuss the origin of the Dwarves - & that he still refers to the Valar as 'gods'. The consensus is that he had stopped referring to them as 'gods' back in the 30's. Maybe shorthand for an interviewer unfamiliar with the story, but interesting nonetheless.....

[The Might]

Thanks for the link, and also for the transcript.
Without reading it I could only understand 30% of what he said.
It's hard to understand a native speaker sometimes...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by The Might

Thanks for the link, and also for the transcript.
Without reading it I could only understand 30% of what he said.
It's hard to understand a native speaker sometimes...

Oh, that's good, I was afraid I was the only one...

Though I think really great part of it does the way he talks, and the quality also does not help it... it reminds me of one of our university professors who always speaks (while on a lecture) with hand in front of his mouth. So I can quite well imagine how Tolkien's lectures might have looked (or sounded) like...

Anyway, do you know if they keep clips like that there still? On the same address?

[Elmo]

Tolkien on the beginning of the Hobbit

A bit of Judy Dench added in aswell

[davem]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Anyway, do you know if they keep clips like that there still? On the same address?

As far as I'm aware the BBC still have the whole of the documentary in their archives. Why its never been repeated, or released on DVD, I have no idea. I've seen clips from it in other programmes (& in the documentary 'JRRT: A Film Portrait of JRR Tolkien' - sadly no longer available, as it contains a long filmed interview with Christopher, the only one I know of. Bailie Tolkien also appears, along with Priscilla & Father John). There are radio ineterviews, & one other TV interview, available on the net, but I think this is the longest clip with Tolkien discussing his works in depth.

Edit

The clip with Judy Dench is from the JRRT doc - its about an hour & fifty minutes in total. Christopher is fascinating (oh Shippey & Flieger also pop up in it).

[MatthewM]

Nice find, davem! Great stuff, and like most here, I didn't even understand half of what the Professor was saying, so I thank you for the translation. I wonder if he was well aware that people couldn't understand him well verbally?

Originally Posted by davem

(& in the documentary 'JRRT: A Film Portrait of JRR Tolkien' - sadly no longer available, as it contains a long filmed interview with Christopher, the only one I know of. Bailie Tolkien also appears, along with Priscilla & Father John).

I would like to see this, do you think you can give us some details that Christopher talks of? Anything that isn't widely known? Thanks!

[davem]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

Nice find, davem! Great stuff, and like most here, I didn't even understand half of what the Professor was saying, so I thank you for the translation. I wonder if he was well aware that people couldn't understand him well verbally?

Well, I'm pretty sure what I gave is correct - I had to listen to it through about four times & then keep pausing it as I typed it out. Of course, others may hear it differently.

I would like to see this, do you think you can give us some details that Christopher talks of? Anything that isn't widely known? Thanks!

In all its about 30 minutes of CT, cut with other speakers, but we see his house (inside & out). There's not much there that's 'new', but he gives some interesting reminisences about his childhood (sitting in the Vale of the White Horse as a child, with his father, watching a steam train. CT says he was excited by it, but that his father saw it as the intrusion of the 'Machine' into the natural world, & didn't like it at all!. He also puts paid to the 'speculation' he'd heard that the reason his father couldn't finish The Sil was that he felt in some way that finishing TS would be finishing his own life (ie, that he would die if he completed it). CT says very clearly that the reason that his father couldn't complete it was that he was simply too old, too tired.

I'll have to try & find time to watch it again to get more detail. Lal & Narfforc have also seen it though, & their memories may be sharper than mine.

[Lalwendë]

The various documentaries as far as I can pin them down, with some help from davem are:

1968 - Tolkien in Oxford
Mid-80s - an Arena or Omnibus documentary, which had clips from Tolkien in Oxford or indeed could have been the same thing.
Late 90s - An Awfully Big Adventure, with clips from Tolkien In Oxford and also clips from JRRT A Film Portrait (clips of Christopher Tolkien).
Early 2000s - a 'repeat' of the Arena/Omnibus special with clips of Tolkien In Oxford, but with some of the original 80s material clipped to show bits of the films. Has Vaughan Williams music in it, as did the 80s one.

Then there is JRRT A Film Portrait - which also has some bits from Tolkien In Oxford including him talking about Simone de Beauvoir.

All of which are a beggar to source!

[davem]

There's a special feature including the clip on BBC2 Newsnight - Programme's on now

[davem]

Go to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/video_and_audio/default.stm right hand column, scroll down to Newsnight & 'Watch' tonight's episode for the feature. Very good. (Adam Tolkien & Alan Lee on there, along with clips of Tolkien himself)

[Kuruharan]

Where's Kuru?

Right here.

He'd be delighted

With seeing the clip, yes. But this is not new information to those of us of latter days.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by davem

There's a special feature including the clip on BBC2 Newsnight - Programme's on now

Perhaps in future you could give us the BBC World news link, for those of us not on your side of the pond, should it be covered by BBC World News?

It was interesting towatch the coverage of the slaughter in Virginia, for the BBC focussed on gun laws and gun access in the US, whereas CNN is hammering away at timelines. Has Tolkien got pushed off the agenda by the gunman?

EDIT: Just saw that second BBC clip. I must say that Adam Tolkien seems very familiar. Does he remind people of any one (and, no, I don't mean his grandfather).

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Perhaps in future you could give us the BBC World news link, for those of us not on your side of the pond, should it be covered by BBC World News?

It was interesting towatch the coverage of the slaughter in Virginia, for the BBC focussed on gun laws and gun access in the US, whereas CNN is hammering away at timelines. Has Tolkien got pushed off the agenda by the gunman?

EDIT: Just saw that second BBC clip. I must say that Adam Tolkien seems very familiar. Does he remind people of any one (and, no, I don't mean his grandfather).

BTW, if you don't want to watch the whole of Newsnight the CoH feature can be seen on its own by following the original link http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/sear...kien&go=Search The feature is now first, just above the Tolkien clip.

[sarathy]

Amazing clips