Questions from another beginner - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Arwen Imladris · 03-02-2002, 10:36 AM

Hi! I have read the LOTR 3 times now but I still do not understand everything.

Where do the elves go? What is this place over the sea? Why do the elves all just decide to get up and leave? If the elves have so much power and are imortal, why don't they do more in the LOTR? Well I hope someone can help me!

Mat_Heathertoes · 03-02-2002, 11:09 AM

Phew! I ain't touching this one with a bargepole! I will only say you probably need to read 'The Silmarillion' by J.R.R. Tolkien which will answer all those questions concerning the Elves

littlemanpoet · 03-02-2002, 11:20 AM

Well said, Mat Heathertoes. Arwen, you need to read The Silmarillion and I also recommend Unfinished Tales AFTER The Silmarillion. Warning, though: The Silmarillion doesn't read the same as LOTR; it's more archaic, but absolutely worth it for all that. If you've read LOTR 3 times I think you're committed enough. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Arwen Imladris · 03-02-2002, 11:36 AM

Thanks.. I think.
Ya, my dod warned me that the Silmarilion was hard to read. Oh well, I will try!
Thanks again!

Gorin Icearms · 03-02-2002, 11:55 AM

It's not super hard, just alot of names and places.

Elven-Maiden · 03-02-2002, 12:25 PM

The Grey Havens is elf-heaven. After they've spent some time on earth, they get weary, and decide to go to heaven. Kinda like when your grandma says "I'm looking forward to going to heaven". [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] That, at least is how I understood it.

Nufaciel · 03-02-2002, 12:26 PM

Yeah, all the names and places get confusing sometimes. It helped me to jot down a few notes along the way the first time I read it.

GollumsPrecious · 03-03-2002, 04:50 AM

Take notes if you like but personally I think the SUPERB index Christopher Tolkein made for the Sil is more than plenty. The Appendices also include some excellent family trees as well as diagrams which explain the way the Elves split into groups such as the Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri etc after being called to the Blessed Realms.

Mhoram · 03-03-2002, 12:14 PM

Quote:

The Grey Havens is elf-heaven. After they've spent some time on earth, they get weary, and decide to go to heaven. Kinda like when your grandma says "I'm looking forward to going to heaven". That, at least is how I understood it.

This is a really poor analogy, and in some ways, wholly incorrect. I suggest reading the Silmarilion.

GollumsPrecious · 03-03-2002, 12:52 PM

yeh...I'd go further than that and say it's just plain wrong..and wrong in a big way.

The Grey Havens was the place FROM where Elves (and other chosen ones such as ring bearers, Gandalf etc) departed on their journey to the Blessed Realms....ie on their way along the "Straight Road" to Aman/Erressa which had been hidden since the end of the second age.

To be more precise it was the TOWN where Cidran lived and was located at the head of the Gulf of Lhun.

Paul.

Arwen Imladris · 11-24-2002, 03:05 PM

Hehehe. I love digging up old threads. I believe that this was my very first post! Ahh *wipes eyes* I was just a little newbie then! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

dragoneyes · 11-24-2002, 03:42 PM

So did you read the Silm. in the end?

Galadrie1 · 11-24-2002, 06:18 PM

Ah! Arwen, you have no idea how much that confused me! I didn't read the dates on the first posts, and I was going nuts! I couldn't understand why you were asking all those questions since I know you've read The Silmarillion! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Arwen Imladris · 11-25-2002, 02:47 PM

Yes dragoneyes, I have now read the Sil and UT and LOTR since then. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Galadrie1, Sorry for the confusion!
[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] I think started reading the Sil for the first time after about March 2nd. I finished reading it over the March Break.

Tyler · 11-25-2002, 05:05 PM

Thay go over the sea to be at peace. Yes thay are very powerful but have been in Middle Earth for 1000s of years. Thay tire of the place and want eternal bliss and that is what they get when then go over the sea. The reason thay dont get more involved is that thay are elves and have been involved with war and death long befor men and thay tire of that.

03-02-2002, 10:36 AM	#1
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Questions from another beginner Hi! I have read the LOTR 3 times now but I still do not understand everything. Where do the elves go? What is this place over the sea? Why do the elves all just decide to get up and leave? If the elves have so much power and are imortal, why don't they do more in the LOTR? Well I hope someone can help me! __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

03-02-2002, 11:09 AM	#2
Mat_Heathertoes Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: A Broom cupboard in Utumno Posts: 185	Phew! I ain't touching this one with a bargepole! I will only say you probably need to read 'The Silmarillion' by J.R.R. Tolkien which will answer all those questions concerning the Elves __________________ Give me fish now, and keep nassty chips!

03-02-2002, 11:36 AM	#4
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Thanks.. I think. Ya, my dod warned me that the Silmarilion was hard to read. Oh well, I will try! Thanks again! __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

03-02-2002, 11:55 AM	#5
Gorin Icearms Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 67	It's not super hard, just alot of names and places. __________________ The Moon is Rising! Oh hey, I'm a wight now. WORSHIP ME IN ALL MY WIGHTNESS!!! MUAHAHAHA!!

03-02-2002, 12:25 PM	#6
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	The Grey Havens is elf-heaven. After they've spent some time on earth, they get weary, and decide to go to heaven. Kinda like when your grandma says "I'm looking forward to going to heaven". [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] That, at least is how I understood it. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

03-02-2002, 11:20 AM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Well said, Mat Heathertoes. Arwen, you need to read The Silmarillion and I also recommend Unfinished Tales AFTER The Silmarillion. Warning, though: The Silmarillion doesn't read the same as LOTR; it's more archaic, but absolutely worth it for all that. If you've read LOTR 3 times I think you're committed enough. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

03-02-2002, 12:26 PM	#7
Nufaciel Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 133	Yeah, all the names and places get confusing sometimes. It helped me to jot down a few notes along the way the first time I read it. __________________ Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.

03-03-2002, 04:50 AM	#8
GollumsPrecious Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UK Posts: 21	Take notes if you like but personally I think the SUPERB index Christopher Tolkein made for the Sil is more than plenty. The Appendices also include some excellent family trees as well as diagrams which explain the way the Elves split into groups such as the Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri etc after being called to the Blessed Realms. __________________ Ugluk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob bubhosh skai'...

03-03-2002, 12:52 PM	#10
GollumsPrecious Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UK Posts: 21	yeh...I'd go further than that and say it's just plain wrong..and wrong in a big way. The Grey Havens was the place FROM where Elves (and other chosen ones such as ring bearers, Gandalf etc) departed on their journey to the Blessed Realms....ie on their way along the "Straight Road" to Aman/Erressa which had been hidden since the end of the second age. To be more precise it was the TOWN where Cidran lived and was located at the head of the Gulf of Lhun. Paul. __________________ Ugluk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob bubhosh skai'...

11-24-2002, 03:05 PM	#11
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Hehehe. I love digging up old threads. I believe that this was my very first post! Ahh wipes eyes I was just a little newbie then! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

11-24-2002, 03:42 PM	#12
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 733	So did you read the Silm. in the end? __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.

11-24-2002, 06:18 PM	#13
Galadrie1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The wrong place at the wrong time. Posts: 385	Ah! Arwen, you have no idea how much that confused me! I didn't read the dates on the first posts, and I was going nuts! I couldn't understand why you were asking all those questions since I know you've read The Silmarillion! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ "For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel."

11-25-2002, 02:47 PM	#14
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Yes dragoneyes, I have now read the Sil and UT and LOTR since then. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Galadrie1, Sorry for the confusion! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] I think started reading the Sil for the first time after about March 2nd. I finished reading it over the March Break. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

11-25-2002, 05:05 PM	#15
Tyler Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 37	Thay go over the sea to be at peace. Yes thay are very powerful but have been in Middle Earth for 1000s of years. Thay tire of the place and want eternal bliss and that is what they get when then go over the sea. The reason thay dont get more involved is that thay are elves and have been involved with war and death long befor men and thay tire of that. __________________ Not all who wander are lost. -Tolkien