Frodo, Bilbo and Valinor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

02-21-2003, 06:10 PM

How is it that Frodo and Bilbo go to the Grey Havens? Did they become immortal because of it, or what? I never really quite go that...

elven maiden Earwen · 02-21-2003, 06:23 PM

no they didnt become immortal but they were able to go live Sam because they were ring beares and they saved Middle-earth.

HCIsland · 02-21-2003, 07:38 PM

Okay, I may be displaying my ignorance here, but I always assumed they don't die.

Is this right or wrong?

H.C.

Dain · 02-21-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

The battle for helms deep is over, the battle for middle earth is just beginning.

Sorry, this is OT, but I couldn't help noting the quote in your sig, Earwen. Is it from the book or the film? It's definitely a take on Churchill, don't you think?

As for valinor, would they age and die there? I suppose they would, but maybe more slowly. Check for earlier threads on this...

elven maiden Earwen · 02-21-2003, 07:49 PM

i know its in the movie but who is Churchill? Sorry for of topic.

HCIsland · 02-21-2003, 07:50 PM

Thanks.

Here's a link for others.

H.C.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-22-2003, 10:37 AM

Quote:

i know its in the movie but who is Churchill? Sorry for of topic.

posted by-elven maiden Earwen

I think he/she meant Winston Churchill, former British Prime Minister, and possibly the greatest.

The Hobbits who went to Tol Eressea were and remained mortal. Tolkien mentions so in one of his letters.

Tar-Palantir · 02-22-2003, 12:11 PM

Dain, elven maiden Earwen, et al. here is a little thread on that quote:
Does this quote mean anything to you?

Mattius · 02-22-2003, 04:09 PM

Who is Winston Churchill?? Pssh!!!

Anyways the hobbits definatly do die as does Gimli as they are all mortals. Valinor is called 'the undying lands' because of the elves, maiar and valar who live there, not because anyone who lives there lives forever.

Dain · 02-22-2003, 05:46 PM

I'm glad some other people noticed, thanks for the link. It's funny what you miss, even in an active thread...

And thanks for clearing up the Undying lands for us, Mattius.

Lady Alasse · 02-22-2003, 05:54 PM

I thought that when Arwen gave her necklace to Frodo it meant she was giving him her eternal life. I am probably wrong though.
Wasn't the ship Frodo and Bilbo and all them went on the last out of middle Earth and if so how did Sam go to Valinor?

Child of the 7th Age · 02-23-2003, 05:14 AM

Quote:

I thought that when Arwen gave her necklace to Frodo it meant she was giving him her eternal life.

No, if you read Tolkien's letters, the author makes it very clear that Frodo and Bilbo and any mortal in Valinor will die. This is true because it is part of their nature. To deny or pervert that nature would be to go against the will of Eru. However, Frodo and Bilbo and other mortals in Valinor will be able to choose when they die.

Tolkien hints in several places (see Andreth and Finrod in Morgoth's Ring) that this was part of Eru's true gift to mankind, before we were corrupted by the Shadow. Man is not immortal, and was never intended to be. But man once had the ability to choose where and when he would die and go beyond the circles of the world.

This was also true of Aragorn, who did not go to the Blssed Lands. Take a look in the appendix where Aragorn makes the choice to die at a certain point, even though Arwen begs him not to.

[ February 23, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Mattius · 02-23-2003, 06:10 AM

I believe that Sam builds his own boat and travels the same way that Legalos builds a boat for himself and Gimli.

Voralphion · 02-23-2003, 07:08 PM

Sam couldn't have built his own boat as he lacked the skill. He was barely unable to sit in a boat with the fellowship. He would have gone to the Grey Havens and caught one of the other elven boats going to Valinor. The boat the ringbearers were on was not the last boat to sail as there were stil thousands of elves left in middle earth. Anyway Cirdan wasn't on the boat and it says that he will go west on the last boat.

02-21-2003, 06:10 PM	#1
Knight_Link Guest Posts: n/a	Frodo, Bilbo and Valinor How is it that Frodo and Bilbo go to the Grey Havens? Did they become immortal because of it, or what? I never really quite go that...

02-21-2003, 06:23 PM	#2
elven maiden Earwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A world that never was and never will be Posts: 1,300	no they didnt become immortal but they were able to go live Sam because they were ring beares and they saved Middle-earth. __________________ We pillage and plunder, we rifle and loot, Drink up me hearties, Yo Ho. the looniest site in the world!!!

02-21-2003, 07:38 PM	#3
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Okay, I may be displaying my ignorance here, but I always assumed they don't die. Is this right or wrong? H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-21-2003, 07:49 PM	#5
elven maiden Earwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A world that never was and never will be Posts: 1,300	i know its in the movie but who is Churchill? Sorry for of topic. __________________ We pillage and plunder, we rifle and loot, Drink up me hearties, Yo Ho. the looniest site in the world!!!

02-21-2003, 07:50 PM	#6
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Thanks. Here's a link for others. H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-22-2003, 12:11 PM	#8
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	Dain, elven maiden Earwen, et al. here is a little thread on that quote: Does this quote mean anything to you? __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

02-22-2003, 04:09 PM	#9
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Who is Winston Churchill?? Pssh!!! Anyways the hobbits definatly do die as does Gimli as they are all mortals. Valinor is called 'the undying lands' because of the elves, maiar and valar who live there, not because anyone who lives there lives forever. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

02-22-2003, 05:46 PM	#10
Dain Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Iron Hills Posts: 127	I'm glad some other people noticed, thanks for the link. It's funny what you miss, even in an active thread... And thanks for clearing up the Undying lands for us, Mattius. __________________ Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane.

02-22-2003, 05:54 PM	#11
Lady Alasse Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Gondolin, Middle Earth Posts: 103	I thought that when Arwen gave her necklace to Frodo it meant she was giving him her eternal life. I am probably wrong though. Wasn't the ship Frodo and Bilbo and all them went on the last out of middle Earth and if so how did Sam go to Valinor? __________________ He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken by my arms.-II Samuel 22:35

02-23-2003, 06:10 AM	#13
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	I believe that Sam builds his own boat and travels the same way that Legalos builds a boat for himself and Gimli. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

02-23-2003, 07:08 PM	#14
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	Sam couldn't have built his own boat as he lacked the skill. He was barely unable to sit in a boat with the fellowship. He would have gone to the Grey Havens and caught one of the other elven boats going to Valinor. The boat the ringbearers were on was not the last boat to sail as there were stil thousands of elves left in middle earth. Anyway Cirdan wasn't on the boat and it says that he will go west on the last boat. __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield