Elrond, why? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

07-20-2004, 06:33 PM

Ok, I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but in the Fellowship of the Ring, when Gandalf and Elrond are talking at Rivendell, Elrond recalled when he was with Isildur in Mount Doom. He told Isildur to throw it in the fire, but Isildur said , No.

Elrond was more than powerful to stop Isildur, and he knew that if the Ring fell into the wrong hands that it could mean the possible destruction of Middle-Earth. Why did he not stop or at least try to stop Isildur? Did Isildur put on the ring and become invisible to escape? Or was Elrond was unable to hold Isildur back?

Berserk

The Only Real Estel · 07-20-2004, 06:40 PM

I think Elrond knew that a struggle could mean a death, & he was to pure to kill one of his one, even if to save 1000ands of his people later on.

07-20-2004, 06:46 PM

But Elrond was more honorable than that. Like I said, if he didn't die or kill Isildur then, he knew that if Isildur would rise to power, he would have to face him then. Elrond had more than enough legitimate reasons to fight with Isildur, and they were surrounded by lava. He had numerous chances to throw Isildur into the fire, why didn't he?

Elves are infinately more powerful than men. He could have taken him.

The Only Real Estel · 07-20-2004, 07:04 PM

He probably could have taken him, but Elrond did not know for sure that Isildur would become evil & rise to power. He would not have wished to slay him when there was still a reasonably good chance of Isildur never becoming evil. Besides, Isildur repented of what he had done & was actually on the way to Rivendell to seek council as to what to do with the Ring when he was ambushed, killed, & the Ring was lost (I am 90% sure it was Rivendell

). So that proves right there that Isildur still had plenty of time to hand the Ring over to another, though he might not have chosen to do that.

07-20-2004, 07:24 PM

I can udnerstand the repentance part, but Elrond wasn't stupid: he knew that the Ring was made for Sauron alone. I mean, Sauron forged it, bringing all of those who possessed a ring that he previously gave under his power.

I tell you again: Elrond wasn't stupid. Whether it be too much power for man to harness or that it was plainly an amazingly evil artifact, he knew that the Ring was not to be taken out of the doorstep of the Mount Doom in its entirety. He knew that the only way to ensure the safety of Middle-Earth, whether he knew Isildur would rise to power or not, was to talk or force Isildur to cast it into the heart of the volcano.

The Only Real Estel · 07-20-2004, 07:35 PM

Quote:

to talk or force Isildur to cast it into the heart of the volcano

Which is where the elves natural purity comes in. Anyway, it's a little pointless for just the both of us to continue to post on this thread, so I'm not posting anymoe until somebody else does

!

Cheers,
Estel

Nurumaiel · 07-20-2004, 07:45 PM

I could be terribly short and nasty and say that a very good reason to explain why Elrond didn't kill Isildur is because then there would be no story. However I realize that isn't the point, and I will express my opinion on the matter.

It seems to me that Elrond didn't kill Isildur because he was honourable. It isn't very honourable to kill a comrade, especially one who has just won a battle through heroic courage in facing an ultimate evil. Honour is defined often as virtue, or nobleness, and it is neither virtuous nor noble to ditch someone into a fire to put an end to all problems. Frankly, it isn't good. Elrond never struck me as one who would really agree to, 'The ends justify the means.' Somehow it seems to me that such an action would defeat the whole purpose... to prevent Sauron murdering by murdering yourself? It doesn't seem to fit. It isn't honourable.

07-20-2004, 06:33 PM	#1
Berserker Guest Posts: n/a	Elrond, why? Ok, I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but in the Fellowship of the Ring, when Gandalf and Elrond are talking at Rivendell, Elrond recalled when he was with Isildur in Mount Doom. He told Isildur to throw it in the fire, but Isildur said , No. Elrond was more than powerful to stop Isildur, and he knew that if the Ring fell into the wrong hands that it could mean the possible destruction of Middle-Earth. Why did he not stop or at least try to stop Isildur? Did Isildur put on the ring and become invisible to escape? Or was Elrond was unable to hold Isildur back? Berserk

07-20-2004, 06:46 PM	#3
Berserker Guest Posts: n/a	But Elrond was more honorable than that. Like I said, if he didn't die or kill Isildur then, he knew that if Isildur would rise to power, he would have to face him then. Elrond had more than enough legitimate reasons to fight with Isildur, and they were surrounded by lava. He had numerous chances to throw Isildur into the fire, why didn't he? Elves are infinately more powerful than men. He could have taken him. Last edited by Berserker; 07-20-2004 at 06:53 PM.

07-20-2004, 06:40 PM	#2
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	I think Elrond knew that a struggle could mean a death, & he was to pure to kill one of his one, even if to save 1000ands of his people later on.

07-20-2004, 07:04 PM	#4
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	He probably could have taken him, but Elrond did not know for sure that Isildur would become evil & rise to power. He would not have wished to slay him when there was still a reasonably good chance of Isildur never becoming evil. Besides, Isildur repented of what he had done & was actually on the way to Rivendell to seek council as to what to do with the Ring when he was ambushed, killed, & the Ring was lost (I am 90% sure it was Rivendell ). So that proves right there that Isildur still had plenty of time to hand the Ring over to another, though he might not have chosen to do that.

07-20-2004, 07:24 PM	#5
Berserker Guest Posts: n/a	I can udnerstand the repentance part, but Elrond wasn't stupid: he knew that the Ring was made for Sauron alone. I mean, Sauron forged it, bringing all of those who possessed a ring that he previously gave under his power. I tell you again: Elrond wasn't stupid. Whether it be too much power for man to harness or that it was plainly an amazingly evil artifact, he knew that the Ring was not to be taken out of the doorstep of the Mount Doom in its entirety. He knew that the only way to ensure the safety of Middle-Earth, whether he knew Isildur would rise to power or not, was to talk or force Isildur to cast it into the heart of the volcano.

07-20-2004, 07:45 PM	#7
Nurumaiel Vice of Twilight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on a mountain Posts: 1,121	I could be terribly short and nasty and say that a very good reason to explain why Elrond didn't kill Isildur is because then there would be no story. However I realize that isn't the point, and I will express my opinion on the matter. It seems to me that Elrond didn't kill Isildur because he was honourable. It isn't very honourable to kill a comrade, especially one who has just won a battle through heroic courage in facing an ultimate evil. Honour is defined often as virtue, or nobleness, and it is neither virtuous nor noble to ditch someone into a fire to put an end to all problems. Frankly, it isn't good. Elrond never struck me as one who would really agree to, 'The ends justify the means.' Somehow it seems to me that such an action would defeat the whole purpose... to prevent Sauron murdering by murdering yourself? It doesn't seem to fit. It isn't honourable.