Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXVII - Ballroom Blitz

[mormegil]

We need one more vote for Valier and one for Eomer so the four of us have 2 each.

[Valier]

If I vote for Eomer it is a three way tie. What if noone else shows up and votes? Noone here can change it to me and still make it a four way lynch.

[Naria]

Mmmmmpeaches

[Valier]

We need Cailin to retract or Holby or Folwren to show up and one of them votes me

[mormegil]

Naria is cracking.

Eomer is still around to vote for Valier.

[Valier]

Oh yeah!!! Eomer hasn't voted!! Ok I will vote for Eomer and Eomer votes for me? Would that make it a four way tie?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Plus there's the added fun of Valier and me tempted to ruin it all to save ourselves.

There are 11 of us. If 4 go and one tonight there will be 6 left tomorrow. With only one wolf remaining, why the hell not? If nothing else it will be a WW first (I think).

Although it gives more of us less game time.

[Valier]

So are any of us bluffing? I am willing to go with all four. So if someone else does show up they shouldn't vote?

[Naria]

hahahaahhaha blurp...anyone have an extra straight jacket layin around per chance?

[Valier]

++Eomer

[Macalaure]

Though this be madness, yet there is method in it.

[mormegil]

Only three minutes left by my view...are you two voting or not?

[Valier]

Well all three of you lynchees raise a glass and toast with me. May this massacre shed some light and bring this poor party some luck!!!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fine with me. Although, if I am to go, I will seek you in the next life Cailín.

++VALIER

[Valier]

Eomer?? You voting?

[Valier]

Obviously I crossposted. CHEERS!!!!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This had better be an honourable death. I don't want a stupid, pointless one...

[Valier]

Agreed Eomer!! You had better be bad!

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

This had better be an honourable death. I don't want a stupid, pointless one...

Agreed, I was about to ask for the same thing but you beat me to it.

[Naria]

I want to be commited to a looney bin Durelin!!

[Valier]

*bites Nails*

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, we all accepted this a bit too easily. Maybe not Naria...

[Valier]

Either way.....Go villagers go!!!

[Durelin]

Mwahahaa! You guys all need to be commited to a looney bin!

*rubs hands together with glee*

Dance (Day) 3 is over.

Rest (Night) 4 has begun.

No more talking villagers. Wolf, I look forward to hearing from you.

Yes, the Wolf is still alive. And so are both the Cobblers.

It was a grand effort, though.

[Durelin]

The dancers were getting restless, particularly now that they saw the evil they faced was far from invincible and unstoppable. They wanted more blood to pay for what blood had already been spilt, they wanted vengeance, they wanted an end to the torment and the slaughter… It was judgment day.

So naturally, they had a dance-off.

While the band was nearing an end to their current movement, the guests were narrowing down their suspects…a bit. There were eleven of them left, each with their own ideas. Three nasty souls ate away at the party from the inside while the others were busily trying to catch them.

There were eleven of them left…and from them were picked the fateful four. The others called them the “four contestants,” and that seemed to sound good enough for those four to cooperate, even indulge in this opportunity to show off their mad skillz.

First up was mormegil, and he awed everyone with his rude break-dancing moves. Then it was Valier, who, for some reason, could do the chicken dance at the speed of light. Third was Eomer, who danced the Highland Fling atop a dangerously spiked war shield. Obviously he felt it likely the Werewolf had to be among the four. And last was Naria with her “Walk Like a Venetian,” which seemed to involve more kicking than any walk anyone had ever seen.

It was an exciting lineup, and the contestants certainly were excited: so much so that they did not notice the click of barrels loading.

But before the firing squad fired a single shot, one of Naria’s kicks ended in her shoe flying into the air, the sharp stiletto plunging itself into Eomer’s face. With a yell, his own footing was disrupted, and after slicing his ankle on it, the shield slid toward Valier, who was still shaking her tail feathers. She tripped on the heavy wooden slap and fell head first onto one of the metal spikes. Her beautiful plumage was destroyed in the process, and her beak snapped off her mask in the process, which shot straight into the neck of mormegil, whose spinning body came to a grinding halt.

Everyone watched as three more flames appeared in the chandelier above them. All eyes were now on Naria.

A freak stiletto accident…or a wolfish scheme?

“Oh,” Naria suddenly exclaimed, “there’s my shoe!” She wrenched it out of Eomer’s head and slid it back on her foot.

“She’s loony,” Lalwendë said, in shock.

Cailín stared wide-eyed at Eomer’s lifeless form.

Macalaure silently locked and loaded, his eyes on Naria.

She turned to him, giggled, and took off toward a conveniently placed window.

“You can’t catch me!” she cried.

A shot ran out, but Naria’s momentum drove her forward into a half-filled with winter-themed paperware trash bin. She would have been appalled if she was able to be anything at all anymore.

Another flame joined the eight already flickering on the chandelier.

And thus it would be recorded in memory and in legend, and no one would feel prepared to make judgment upon them; were they the four heroes…or the four stooges?


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The Dead Dead

Durelin (Mod and Hostess) – Ghostbusted on Rest (Night) the First
CaptainofDespair (Co-mod and Host) – Ghostbusted on Rest (Night) the First
Kath (Ordinary Villager) – Pinned and Labeled by the Mob on Dance (Day) the First
Kitanna (Ordinary Villager) – Minced, Placed in the Band, and Hardcore Harpsichorded on Rest (Night) the Second
Celuien (Werewolf) – Lassoed and Spurred by the Dancers on Dance (Day) the Second
Rikae (Ordinary Villager) – Trimmed and Bedecked on Rest (Night) the Third
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Ordinary Villager) – Stilettoed on Dance (Day) the Third
Valier (Ordinary Villager) – Highland Flinged on Dance (Day) the Third
mormegil (Ordinary Villager) – Beak Danced (hardy harr) on Dance (Day) the Third
Naria (Ordinary Villager) – Thrown in the Loony Bin on Dance (Day) the Third


The Living Dead

Farael as a Fair-looking Orc
Nogrod as a Nice Choirboy
Lalwendë as a (Mischievous Little) Christmas Elf
Naria as a Spoiled Heiress wearing a Venetian half mask
Macalaure as a Mime
Cailín as a Robin
Holbytlass as a Court Jester
Folwren as an Elegant, Cold, Stoic, Mysterious Countess



“You have been dying since the day
You were born
You know it has all been planned
The quartet of deliverance rides
A sinner once a sinner twice
No need for confession now
Cause now you have got the fight of your life”
~Metallica, The Four Horsemen

[Durelin]

So many had died by the hands of the villagers the dance before, and only seven of them remained now. Knowing well that they were running out of time and that soon there would be just as many wishing to do harm as not, the dancers were wary, eyeing not only their companions but themselves. Who could know if they would be next to feel the scraping of claws on flesh, or the crunching of teeth against breaking bone?

Holbytlass sat with her hands on her ears, Nogrod trying to preach to her the value of clean jokes and riddles.

Lalwendë joyfully poked fun at Macalaure, mocking his Mime-ness by stealing his invisible rope.

Farael, ever the fair orc, was showing Cailín how best to condition her feathers, so that they would shine to their best.

As the six tried to keep thoughts of what they knew happened during their rests out of their minds, they were brought out of the conversations by the realization that Folwren was missing. She had spent much of her time alone to begin with, her cold, stoic nature throwing off potential dance partners. Looking up, each saw yet another candle on the chandelier had lit up. They knew she had died. But how did she die? Where was the body? The wolves had always done something with the bodies to disgust and disturb the other guests.

The dancers each looked around, until at last they came to a large fountain in the corner of the ballroom. It was beautifully carved of marble and granite, the waters flowed from the gaping mouth of a great dragon that sat perched upon a false mountain. All six stood around it, for this was the last place they could look. Then, first as a trickle that was barely noticeable, and then as a flood, the blood of the stoic countess flowed out from the dragon’s belly. The dancers then knew where the countess had been stashed.

With a bit of poking around, the dancers then located a note hidden on the back of the dragon’s head. Although it was mostly stained in blood and shredded by claw marks, the last few lines were legible. They read: “And to that last moment of her life your Countess remained cold, caring for nothing, not even her own life. In our hasty discussion, she revealed that she found her imminent death to be an unavoidable necessity. She did not try to turn my decision. She was unmovable, as she is now.”
~The Barrow-Wolf

(by CaptainofDespair)

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The Dead Dead

Durelin (Mod and Hostess) – Ghostbusted on Rest (Night) the First
CaptainofDespair (Co-mod and Host) – Ghostbusted on Rest (Night) the First
Kath (Ordinary Villager) – Pinned and Labeled by the Mob on Dance (Day) the First
Kitanna (Ordinary Villager) – Minced, Placed in the Band, and Hardcore Harpsichorded on Rest (Night) the Second
Celuien (Werewolf) – Lassoed and Spurred by the Dancers on Dance (Day) the Second
Rikae (Ordinary Villager) – Trimmed and Bedecked on Rest (Night) the Third
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Ordinary Villager) – Stilettoed on Dance (Day) the Third
Valier (Ordinary Villager) – Highland Flinged on Dance (Day) the Third
mormegil (Ordinary Villager) – Beak Danced (hardy harr) on Dance (Day) the Third
Naria (Ordinary Villager) – Thrown in the Loony Bin on Dance (Day) the Third
Folwren (Ordinary Villager) – Stoned on Rest (Night) the Fourth


The Living Dead

Farael as a Fair-looking Orc
Nogrod as a Nice Choirboy
Lalwendë as a (Mischievous Little) Christmas Elf
Naria as a Spoiled Heiress wearing a Venetian half mask
Macalaure as a Mime
Cailín as a Robin
Holbytlass as a Court Jester



Rest (Night) 4 has ended.

Dance (Day) 4 has now begun.



“Hello
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone home?”
~Pink Floyd, Comfortably Numb

[Nogrod]

Now have you all gone mad?!!?

I mean what is this? I have never been a fan of double-lynchings, but to kill four innocents at the same time? C'mon!

*thinkingdesperatelyforaword todefinethefeelingrightnow*

Fools.

[Macalaure]

My goodness...

My... goodness...


I had a quirky feeling when the quadruple lynching came to be yesterDance. I was quite sure there was one, rather two baddies in the pack. I felt good about Naria, but her near-deadline behaviour was very weird and I expected Eomer to blink the last second and reveal his wolfishness by preventing it. This really is the worst possible case...

Six people left.

Three innocents (including me)
Two cobblers
One wolf

Despite what Eomer said, this does simply not look good. Sure, we have two days and two lynching and therefore two chances left, but with two cobblers who might either lead the innocents astray or even sacrifice themselves, our chances are very slim.

Out of

Nogrod
Holbytlass
Farael
Cailín
Lalwende

there are only two innocents. It's weird, but it will probably be easier to single out who looks most innocent than to look for who's most guilty.

RL keeps me on a short leash, so I have to vote early toDance and can't promise to make it back before the deadline. So, I can't practice my own words when I say now that we should be very careful and considerate toDance.

Back later with some more thoughts.

[Nogrod]

So this is what we have left?

Farael as a Fair-looking Orc
Nogrod as a Nice Choirboy
Lalwendë as a (Mischievous Little) Christmas Elf
Macalaure as a Mime
Cailín as a Robin
Holbytlass as a Court Jester

And of these two are cobblers and one is a wolf? Which are the conditions for losing/winning? Durelin should give them to us. I mean: are we just doomed or actually screwed already?

[Holbytlass]

Sacrifice, a high cost
But the cause is not lost
We hang head, shed a tear
And the end may be near
Wolf may want to sink fang
But we will see you hang

ABOUT FOLWREN

Has this bit of a backandforthbanter with Farael
They vote for each other on day one
Folwren keeps voting for Farael in safe voting positions

PS: meant to ask the village what does "acting like Foley" mean?

ABOUT NOGROD
Nogrod Alreadysaw in Folwren and Macaluare what I'm seeing now. Is one of the loudes (now)t if not the loudest but with good analyzing skills therefore will not be surprised if he is the kill tonight

About Lalwende
Is going to be one on Farael's should have lynched earlier list. As someone had said, was very adament in pointing out that Rikae's death was to frame her (and others). All votes were for now known innocents and safe voting positions

About Macalaure

Originally Posted by Mac

Macalaure smiled happily when he came past Celuien and proudly showed her the new rope tricks that she taught him before. He was about to continue credulously when suddenly a vision of his forefathers stroke him. He saw an ancestor of this Celuien lynching his own kin in times long past! Macalaure's face petrified in shock and in horror he withdrew from her

This could be seen as a cobbler hint to the wolf Ceuien. It seems to be too much to be coincidental.
First DANCE early on he finds wolf-Celuien innocent then they have banter about cobblers, then puts Cel-wolf on his "says least suspicion list" a safe position because she is amongst a handful of others.
Voted for 2 known innocents and wolf-Cel at a safe position of 7th voter but 2nd vote for the wolf-was the one to stick around and campaign against Celuien but I feel it's a huge bluff. What better position then to lead in the lynching of a wolf (and he would know being her cobbler) to get in good graces with the rest of the village to then help the other cobbler and final wolf at the end. A wolf victory is a team victory.

ABOUT CAILIN
She finds everyone to be innocent maybe because she knows all, but one, are innocent.
Actually, I don’t find her suspicious at all, but then that was how Celuien was at first perceived, up front with analysis and very calm. I tend to believe her innocent though.

ABOUT FARAEL
Is very straight forward and adamant about his plan, trying to be helpful to village
Could be something there between him and Folwren but I think Folwren to be the guilty one


Farael
Nogrod
Lalwende
Macalaure
Cailin
Folwren

Someone will die tonight and I’m left with trying to find hands of the other two TRUE innocents, but I know that more likely as I extend the baddies will grasp.
Both Folwren and Macalaure seem to be giving Celuien cobbler hints. Now they both can’t be her cobbler

Folwren and Farael have some sort of back and forth thing going on. I tend to think Folwren is guilty but is Farael? I want to believein his innocence because I think him to be trying to help thi village in his bulldog sort of way(Farael).

I think the bluff that Macalaure is doing is plausible.

Lalwende ic flying under the radar. But I know only 3 are bad.

I can’t help to feel right about Nogrod, he has said what I’ve gleaned as I was catching up to this DANCE, and somewhat Cailin. Eru help me if I’m wrong.

I’m skimming through and I think I’m right in saying that Mormegil was the first to mention the mass-lynching, is there anyone that stands out as wanting (or egging it on) to happen that wasn’t the four?


P.S. Now that Folwren is dead, o'course will have to rework the theories.
And be careful, it's easy to think of the four as foolish with 20/20 hindsight. I applaud their courage.

[Durelin]

Yes, yes...always either winning or losing... Well, the Wolf has not won until only he/she and one other dancer is alive, or if the Wolf and the two Cobblers are the only ones left alive. Just so it's nice and straightforward. If toDance you do not kill the remaining Wolf, you Innocents may get a little something just to keep things interesting...and...going...

So, keep playing. Baddies: don't figure you've won. Innocents: don't despair.

The game's not over yet.

[Nogrod]

Okay Macalaure. Let's settle this as well as we can. I know you have to leave early and so let's get down to the bussiness - as I would think it highly unethical to try to settle this one-sidedly while you're away.

I'm most astonished that you're alive after what you did to Celuien. I really am. But I'm also a bit confused that I myself continue living. It's not impossible that the wolf changes tactics according to the general mood - and all the time enjoying the innocents tearing each other apart.

So either you're a backstabbing wolf or then the wolf plays with us both?

What say you?

I'll dive into the yesterDance's late moments for a while but will be looking forward to your comments...

[Macalaure]

No time for big analysis, but these are my feelings:

The wolf goes for the quiet/misguided/trailless ones. S/he is obviously not scared of crafty players like Nogrod. This means that, a) Nogrod is the wolf, b) Nogrod is a cobbler and the wolf knows, c) our wolf has a lot of guts and trusts his/her cobblers to lead people astray.

I don't think I will be voting Nogrod toDance, because he's too great a loss when innocent. If I survive this day and night, I will be looking very closely at him, but not now. I remain highly suspicious.

Holbytlass has been looking fishy to me all the game. Her recent theory about me is the most far-fetched thing I have seen in a long time (no offense ). I think she is a cobbler, if not something worse.

I have very little doubt that Farael is a cobbler, most probably Celuien's one.

Lalwende is new to the game, but she already beats mormegil in secretiveness. If I had time I would to an analysis of her, but alas!

Cailín looks somewhat innocent, but I'm not sure.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

c) our wolf has a lot of guts and trusts his/her cobblers to lead people astray.

Notwithstanding the chance that you're the wolf here this seems to me the most likely one. But who could that be then? Cailín, Holby, Lalwendë? I do not agree with you that Holby's points on you were "most far-fetched", though...

I think I need to reconsider Lalwendë seriously now, or maybe Cailín; no one has actually suspected her so far seriously (as we have not suspected Holby or Lal either). Maybe it's time we end this first showing tenderness and start really looking at what Lal has done so far...

Mac: I don't know how long you will be online, but I'm afraid I have a point or two that makes me suspect you the most at this moment. Check to begin with what morm and Eomer had to say of you to get a hang of it. I try to be as fast as I can but as a non-native speaker it takes a while to complete my post about yesterDance...

[Macalaure]

You make me wonder, Nogrod. Even if you don't agree with my last point on Holby, why do you dismiss her possible guilt without much comment? What makes you feel better about her than about Cailín or Lal?

[Nogrod]

Morm and Eomer were the two people here I had began to trust somewhat as they acted relaxed enough and had good points (from my point of view eg. suspecting the same people I was suspecting). I'm really sorry they're gone and I had no chance to meddle in the last voting because of my London-friends (RL).

I also must admit that I greatly suspected Naria and Valier. I had some bad memories of those two playing together just a short while ago. And they looked suspicious to me. Obviously they weren't the baddies.

But a few points from yesterDance then.

Originally Posted by morm#251

Naria to top the list, Mac, Farael are the others. Three people singing the same off beat tune with spurious logic as to why I'm guilty. [...] if you take the general feel of those three or four I promise that at least two of the three are in there likely all three.

It's not the first time in this game I agree with him exactly. Now Naria is gone and she was innocent. So that leaves Mac and Farael. Farael has played too bluntly to be a wolf. His vote on morm yesterDance I think particularly telling here. I regard him as a cobbler now if nothing else comes in to the horizon - and thence would not advise to lynch him without better arguments as we need to get the wolf here. But Mac then?

Originally Posted by Eomer#252

Anyway, I noticed in Celuien's post #94 that she makes use of the Funnily enough, Mac does that in post #232 and #239. All when trying to pacify potential adversaries. Desperate to appear friendly? It's something I've seen before and it flushed out a wolf. (Bad memories )

Anyway, I think that point, as trivial as it may seem, is far more substantial than anything Mac has raised against me. Yet I am apparently his top suspect. Of course, as Mac himself admits, there's nothing wolvish about me, and there's nothing I've said that he can point to and say 'Look at that!' But still.

Know what I think, Mac? You're scaremongering. You're eager to whip up an anti-Eomer frenzy because you know how easy it is. When you repeat the assertion that I am very suspicious, but without any semblance of a reason why — other than that I'm supposedly playing like Celuien (?) — it makes me wonder.

Now why would Mac do such a thing as an innocent villager? It doesn't sound like him anyway.

Originally Posted by Cailín#256

Naria is not Celuien's cobbler. Farael might be. He seems to have an air of desperation today. I am also considering him as the possible other wolf, to be honest.

I noted the same desperation there but would disagree with his status still. He's a cobbler. I'm pretty convinced of it. He wouldn't have made such a number of himself and his plan if he were a wolf. I really trust him to be the cobbler (of Celuien). If he is a wolf you should grind me to a mincemeat then... (sorry about another Finnish idiom)

Okay. I changed my mind and will post this before I get to see the rest of it, just to give Mac a chance to answer even these few points. I would hate losing an innocent Mac... but this is all under making... sorry.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

You make me wonder, Nogrod. Even if you don't agree with my last point on Holby, why do you dismiss her possible guilt without much comment? What makes you feel better about her than about Cailín or Lal?

Nothing. And I don't think I said anything like that anyhow... I would keep an open mind here to all directions - what else can we do?

[Farael]

What were those four thinking... we went from "moderately successful" to "in dire need for help". We've got two chances to nail that sneaky wolf, and it would be rather favourable if we got at least a cobbler today. The 'lucky' thing is that the wolf might help us out and get a cobbler tonight (toRest) as s/he does not know who they are. He might guess, but we can hope that he'll get it wrong.

If Macalure is the remaining wolf, that's good news, since he thinks me a cobbler... thus even if he gets one cobbler right, he must think the other is an ordo. It would also explain why I've survived thus far, even though I haven't been exactly vocal the last two days.

ToDance RL might cut me some slack... but then, it might not. My friend who lives in Montreal is visiting here and so if he calls me up...

But I'm here now, and I have a few thoughts to share with you all.

Lawlende has been hiding behind two masks. Yes, she's been very silent, which upsets me since now it's too late to lynch someone on those basis alone. But then, there is something else. Everyone is "cutting her some slack" since she's rather new to this game but... am I mistaken or is this her second or third game? I've seen some players excell from game 1.... I've seen some that took a little more time to get used to the tricks of this game.... but I've never seen someone take two games to say anything of value. And we know she's intelligent, so it's not like this whole thing has gone way over her head.

I think that Lawlende has something to hide, but I'm thinking she's a cobbler. A wolf can't risk being THAT silent.. she must've known that sooner or later we'd suspect her, and this plays right in the hand of the wolf. While getting a cobbler is much better than getting an ordo, at this point in the game we should be trying to get the wolf or nothing. We won't have many second-chances.

But then, who IS the wolf? I'm inclined to think Nogrod Innocent, or cobbler at the worst, so IMO he's not the wolf. Macalure is definitely an option, although he might be the other cobbler if my theory about Lalwende is off.

I just found out that Cailin is playing... I honestly can't recall reading more than two posts by her. Yet I'm not as suspicious of her, perhaps because I have not enough material to form a suspicion, but nonetheless I think her a silent ordo.

I just noticed something

Originally Posted by Macalure

My goodness...

My... goodness...

Note how he italices the "good" in the second "goodness". IF that's not a cobbler hint, I've never seen one. To me, that's saying that he thinks it "good" what happened last night.

Now folks, if you agree with me I will say do not lynch him If we know him to be a cobbler, the best thing we can do right now is ignore him.

Remember, we have two lynchings left and three baddies. IF we waste a kill on a cobbler, that means that we have only one kill left to actually find the wolf. So for now, I suggest we all ignore Macalure and concentrate on finding the wolf.

My suspects at this point on the day:

Lalwende: Possibly a cobbler, but maybe a wolf
Macalure: Cobbler, almost certainly
Cailin: Too silent to know either way.

Those I won't try to lynch right now
Nogrod I think him innocent, and definitely not a wolf. If he's a cobbler, hats off to him, but if I know Nogrod at all, he's just an ordo.
Holbytlass speaks little but what she does say makes sense to me. At this point in the game you just can't suspect everyone who doesn't talk enough, so I'm choosing her as an "ordo". At least for now.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's not the first time in this game I agree with him exactly. Now Naria is gone and she was innocent. So that leaves Mac and Farael. Farael has played too bluntly to be a wolf. His vote on morm yesterDance I think particularly telling here. I regard him as a cobbler now if nothing else comes in to the horizon - and thence would not advise to lynch him without better arguments as we need to get the wolf here. But Mac then?

morm's theory, as much as I liked it as well (wouldn't have agreed to the quadruple otherwise), is out of the window since both Naria and Valier are innocent. I think we should think anew and look aside of yesterDay's doomed path. It was rather unfruitful in hindsight, wasn't it?

Now why would Mac do such a thing as an innocent villager? It doesn't sound like him anyway.

Don't know what you mean exactly. You're using smilies the same way. I don't know what he meant with scaremongering, since I think I was just suspecting him in a regular way.

[Farael]

I have cross-posted with Nogrod and Macalure... I'm sad to see I'm thought of as a cobbler. If you think about it, Celuien's cobbler has no reason to despair. If anything, he has to be extra-careful not to get the wolf to kill him at night. Why would he despair, if he can still win if the other wolf wins?

I still don't suspect Nogrod over it... I can understand his reasoning, I just don't share it. Not only 'cos I know I'm not a cobbler, but also because it makes no sense for either cobbler to despair. YesterDance there was still a lot of game to be played, and even worse, today the game seems to be in control of the baddies. Think me a cobbler if you must, but at least read my last post carefully. I think I might be on to something, specially with Mac's italized good.