Was Sauron Evil? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-31-2002, 12:32 PM

This might seem like a dumb question, but I thought it would give something to talk about:

Was Sauron evil from the very beggining, or was he a decent (good) up until he joined Melkor?

Jjudvven · 01-31-2002, 12:59 PM

I never though that he wa evil from the very beginning... It was Melkors influence that corrupted him. He was originally good... At least that is what I think. Different opinion, anyone?

Mankáno · 01-31-2002, 01:09 PM

No, Sauron was one of the Maiar of Aule. And he was one of many (like the balrogs) that were corrupted by Melkor. The wish of power corrupted him I think.

Maeglin · 01-31-2002, 01:37 PM

Darn! I wanted to say that [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].
Well wasn't Sauron a Balrog? The King of them or something it says in my Sil.

Elenhin · 01-31-2002, 02:44 PM

Nothing was evil in the beginning, not even Melkor. He was good, but he turned to evil because he envied Eru and wanted to be like him - he couldn't, so he started to defy him and those who followed his wishes. He was originally the greatest of the Valar, and he attracted many to his service before and after falling to evil. Sauron was among those he corrupted after falling to evil.

Sauron was the most powerful of Melkor's followers, but he was not a Balrog. Balrogs were spirits of fire, which Sauron was not.

obloquy · 01-31-2002, 02:59 PM

Don't forget that Osse followed Melkor for a short while, but repented and was pardoned. Sauron most likely had the same option open to him early on, or perhaps even later.

I believe it's Osanwe-kenta that contains some fascinating discussion on the topic of Manwe's inability to fathom deceitfulness, and therefore his seeming 'gullibility' with regard to Melkor's suit for pardon.

Kuruharan · 01-31-2002, 05:00 PM

Sauron had the chance to obtain a pardon (or at least go back to Valinor to stand trial) at the end of the War of Wrath. He refused to go because he could not put up with the humiliation, although he might have suspected that he would not be pardoned but chained like Morgoth and refused to go because of that.

Carannillion · 01-31-2002, 06:18 PM

Sauron was not a sprit of fire, hence not a Balrog, BUT he was their captain (Melkor's greatest general and so on).

Frahhamn · 01-31-2002, 08:08 PM

aye. nothing was evil to begin with. Sauron was actually friends with Elves. and that is how he learned to make the One Ring.

he wasn't initially evil, which perhaps makes him even more evil, since (to reach the stage of villainy that he was at in the Lord of the Rings) he would have to have become much more evil than he was originally. kinda like going from a positive number to a negative. he was good, but became evil, which is much worse than starting out evil.

02-01-2002, 12:17 PM

Actually, I believe Sauron was already evil when he befriended the Elves and learned to make rings. It was all part of his plan.

Jjudvven · 02-01-2002, 12:36 PM

That's right. He was already perverted into Melkors service then.

01-31-2002, 12:32 PM	#1
danalmsa Guest Posts: n/a	Was Sauron Evil? This might seem like a dumb question, but I thought it would give something to talk about: Was Sauron evil from the very beggining, or was he a decent (good) up until he joined Melkor?

01-31-2002, 12:59 PM	#2
Jjudvven Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Land to the West Posts: 154	I never though that he wa evil from the very beginning... It was Melkors influence that corrupted him. He was originally good... At least that is what I think. Different opinion, anyone? __________________ "I don't know all of you as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve."

01-31-2002, 01:37 PM	#4
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Darn! I wanted to say that [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. Well wasn't Sauron a Balrog? The King of them or something it says in my Sil. __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

01-31-2002, 05:00 PM	#7
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	Sauron had the chance to obtain a pardon (or at least go back to Valinor to stand trial) at the end of the War of Wrath. He refused to go because he could not put up with the humiliation, although he might have suspected that he would not be pardoned but chained like Morgoth and refused to go because of that. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

01-31-2002, 06:18 PM	#8
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	Sauron was not a sprit of fire, hence not a Balrog, BUT he was their captain (Melkor's greatest general and so on). __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...

01-31-2002, 01:09 PM	#3
Mankáno Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tirion Posts: 30	No, Sauron was one of the Maiar of Aule. And he was one of many (like the balrogs) that were corrupted by Melkor. The wish of power corrupted him I think.

01-31-2002, 02:44 PM	#5
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	Nothing was evil in the beginning, not even Melkor. He was good, but he turned to evil because he envied Eru and wanted to be like him - he couldn't, so he started to defy him and those who followed his wishes. He was originally the greatest of the Valar, and he attracted many to his service before and after falling to evil. Sauron was among those he corrupted after falling to evil. Sauron was the most powerful of Melkor's followers, but he was not a Balrog. Balrogs were spirits of fire, which Sauron was not.

01-31-2002, 02:59 PM	#6
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 935	Don't forget that Osse followed Melkor for a short while, but repented and was pardoned. Sauron most likely had the same option open to him early on, or perhaps even later. I believe it's Osanwe-kenta that contains some fascinating discussion on the topic of Manwe's inability to fathom deceitfulness, and therefore his seeming 'gullibility' with regard to Melkor's suit for pardon.

01-31-2002, 08:08 PM	#9
Frahhamn Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 22	aye. nothing was evil to begin with. Sauron was actually friends with Elves. and that is how he learned to make the One Ring. he wasn't initially evil, which perhaps makes him even more evil, since (to reach the stage of villainy that he was at in the Lord of the Rings) he would have to have become much more evil than he was originally. kinda like going from a positive number to a negative. he was good, but became evil, which is much worse than starting out evil. __________________ AAAA!!! DON'T RATE ME DOWN!!!! :( RATE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----Frahhamn's Dungeon ----Email Frahhamn ---- tlotr @ ezboard

02-01-2002, 12:17 PM	#10
danalmsa Guest Posts: n/a	Actually, I believe Sauron was already evil when he befriended the Elves and learned to make rings. It was all part of his plan.

02-01-2002, 12:36 PM	#11
Jjudvven Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Land to the West Posts: 154	That's right. He was already perverted into Melkors service then. __________________ "I don't know all of you as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve."