chilling during the war? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

camomile · 01-29-2004, 11:55 PM

my question is, what where the other great characters doing during the war of the ring? and if they had been more active what would that have changed? I know that radegast was concerned about the affairs of the ring sience that was the entire reason his lot was in M.I. so why did he play such a small roll in the war of the ring? and what where beorn, and the beornings doing during this time? I mean being the great man he was he couldn't have been unaware of the threat to midle earth. and on the other end what about the barrow wight's they seamed to be a great evil (no offence BW). I have been wondering what diffrence the involvement of these inactive charactors would have made in the war. a body changer who is so powerful when angerd and in bear shape that he could change the tides of one of the most gusom battles (the battle of 5 armies) single handedly, and another wizard(no matter how lazy [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) could have been increadable assets to the company of the ring.

Selmo · 01-30-2004, 04:07 AM

Beorn died before the War of the Ring.

NightKnight · 01-30-2004, 04:50 AM

As Selmo, said Beorn was dead.
The Barrow-wights were in the Barrow-Downs (duh!). :P
Radagast was more concerned with animals and plants, but he did actually play a role, as it was because of him Gandalf could be saved from Orthanc.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-30-2004, 06:39 AM

Beorn's son, Grimbeorn, and his kin were involved during the War of the Ring in fighting Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur.

There is some doubt as to whether the Barrow-Wights could leave the Downs (know how they feel [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ).

And Radagast went native and turned hippy. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Kransha · 01-30-2004, 06:59 AM

I assumed Beorn was dead, as everyone else said.

Radagast was living in a blue painted trailer and had renaimed himself "Dances with Istari".

Barrow-Wights probably didn't leave the Downs because daylight could "kill" them. If they ever moved, it would have to be at night and they would have to be fully sheltered when daylight came. If they did that, they could probably make a short but slow journey somewhere, but not during the War of the Ring.

lathspell · 01-30-2004, 11:29 AM

As said above, Beorn was dead and Grimbeorn, his son, and his people were fighting Dol Guldur and holding the Anduin Vale which holds the most used trade route.

The BW's: I guess they never knew anything about the War. I don't doubt Sauron still could use them as slaves, yet how could he reach them? He himself going from Mordor to the Barrowdowns? No, he was Dark Lord and Lords don't do such things, they've got slaves for such errants. yet the Ringwraiths were to stay hidden and crossed the river only at the latest moment. They did pass the Downs, but then there was no time for they thought they almost had the Ring, 4 hobbits and a man alone in the Wilderness against the Nine. I don't think the BW's would take orders from any save from these ten.

Radagast: he played a small role in the Books, but I don't think he was that unimportant in the War. First, he was one of the White Council and they practically made the difference, with the assault on Dol Guldur and all their wisdom. And he was the one that had many birds and beasts for friends, so he had probably more spies than any other of the Council, retrieving the most information.
In the Hobbit Gandalf is the only one knowing that the orcs and wargs are coming at the Battle of the Five Armies, and I do not doubt that this information came from Radagast. Maybe he had had contact with the Eagles or other birds.
I don't think Radagast's power was in fighting, but in gaining information. Like Elrond, whose power was in wisdom.

greetings,
lathspell

camomile · 01-30-2004, 12:39 PM

ok beorn was dead. my bad, I knew that.....realy. my orriginal question was intended to follow the lines of WHAT IF and why didnt, such peoples and perhaps other great people who I have neglected to mention(Tom Bombadil)joined the war in an active way.had been able to play a roll. exept for beorn who was dead.

I do agree that radagast plaid an imprtant role along with all the white council at Dol-Guldor, but whay did he not do anything after that? you would think that would have been the begining of his involvement in the war not the end.
actualy my reason for creating this post was because of the earlyer post about smog still being alive during the war. it made me wonder what it would have been like if everybody with no exeptions was involded.

lathspell · 01-30-2004, 02:39 PM

What if...? We do not know!

But we do know that the things people did or didn't do in the War made the personalities of those characters and therefore if they did something otherwise their personality would be different.

greetings once more,
lathspell

Knight of Gondor · 01-30-2004, 10:19 PM

How/where do you get that Beorn is dead? Or more info about the Barrow-wights? Not that I doubt, I just want to know. Is it in Unfinished Tales?

rutslegolas · 01-31-2004, 01:31 AM

i tottaly agrree with -lathspell

but if the characters would have played a active roll then the whole story would have been different

but the elfs in rivindell like elrond,glorfindel could have played a part in the war of the rings

and i guess the dwarves would have been a great help in the war but as they were busy fighting the forces of sauron in dale ,i guess they could not help

but an elven army from thranduil would have been a great help

thephantomcredits · 01-31-2004, 07:36 AM

I have always wished in the appendicees there were some tale of the fighting in the north by the dwarves, the men of dale, and the lorien elves.

Finwe · 01-31-2004, 07:01 PM

There is. There are a couple of semi-vivid descriptions of the siege of the Lonely Mountain and the fall of King Brand and the last stand of King Dain Ironfoot.

Noxomanus · 02-01-2004, 05:56 AM

It would have been great to have Radagast being more active in the War of the Ring. It's possible he helped out the Beornings and Lothlorien in the north though. His birds might have served as messengers and spies too. I suppose he may even have send the Eagles on their way to the Black Gate.I suppose he knew of the fall of Gandalf and he might have helped I guess.Perhaps he was too busy,knew too little of the affairs or felt too weak to replace Gandalf the Grey. Or he could have had a 'whatever!' stance on it..or he could have heard all about it after Gandalf returned.I still think it's a pity he's mentioned sooo little in LotR.

And I still wonder what him being 'a master of shapes and hues' was meant to mean.

02-01-2004, 08:08 AM

i belive being a a master of" shapes and hues" meant he could make someone see what he wanted them to see.that would have been a great asset in the war of the ring.

Noxomanus · 02-01-2004, 10:43 AM

^^If that's the case, it would surely have been an asset.Couldn't it have meant he was a shape-shifter? Perhaps he even had chamaleon-qualities [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Radagast the colour-changing Wizard! They should have sent him to spy in Dol Guldur!
I'd love to know what the statement was meant to mean,but alas we can only guess.

Knight of Gondor · 02-01-2004, 03:53 PM

Hm, that's an interesting idea. Still waiting to catch up on some of the other histories of Middle-Earth, but I can't buy the books until after my birthday, so as not to rob someone of a gift idea. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I note that in earlier versions of the story (a little blank on whether or not this particular concept made it to the final work in The Sil), Luthien had the powers to give her, Huan, and Beren the shape of different creatures. And of course, Beorn changed to a bear, but only a bear, nothing else. (Far as I know)

Again, since I'm not caught up on some of the histories, I do not know for sure, but there were fourth and fifth wizards, right? As in, "the staves of the five wizards"? What about them?

NightKnight · 02-07-2004, 06:00 AM

Quote:

How/where do you get that Beorn is dead?
-Knight of Gondor

Gloin tells Frodo in Rivendell.

Quote:

but an elven army from thranduil would have been a great help
-rutslegolas

He was busy fighting, if you read the Appendices you'll see that there was a battle in Mirkwood as well.

Quote:

I do not know for sure, but there were fourth and fifth wizards, right? As in, "the staves of the five wizards"? What about them?
-Knight of Gondor

They were called Alatar and Pallando, and went to the east with Saruman. He returned and settled in Isengard, but they didn't.

Daisy Brambleburr · 02-08-2004, 07:53 AM

I'd always imagined that Radagast had more to do with things than we are told. The eagles, for instance. We know that he sent the Eagle to Orthanc, but what about the other two times? He could easily have had something to do with them.

Noxomanus · 02-08-2004, 01:22 PM

^^Exactly.

I do think Radagast was something of a cowardly wimp but that doesn't stop me from really liking his mysterious ways and character. His name is also fantastic!

If only Tolkien had written more about him... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Knight of Gondor · 02-08-2004, 03:12 PM

Quote:

They were called Alatar and Pallando, and went to the east with Saruman. He returned and settled in Isengard, but they didn't.

What were their powers and purposes? Where did they go in the east, why did they not return?

NightKnight · 02-08-2004, 03:47 PM

I guess their purposes were the same as Gandalf's and Saruman's: to stop Sauron from taking over the world. The only thing I know is that they were called the Blue Wizards, Ithryn Luin.

01-29-2004, 11:55 PM	#1
camomile Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Athens Ga U.S.A Posts: 11	chilling during the war? my question is, what where the other great characters doing during the war of the ring? and if they had been more active what would that have changed? I know that radegast was concerned about the affairs of the ring sience that was the entire reason his lot was in M.I. so why did he play such a small roll in the war of the ring? and what where beorn, and the beornings doing during this time? I mean being the great man he was he couldn't have been unaware of the threat to midle earth. and on the other end what about the barrow wight's they seamed to be a great evil (no offence BW). I have been wondering what diffrence the involvement of these inactive charactors would have made in the war. a body changer who is so powerful when angerd and in bear shape that he could change the tides of one of the most gusom battles (the battle of 5 armies) single handedly, and another wizard(no matter how lazy [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) could have been increadable assets to the company of the ring. __________________ not all that is gold does glitter, not all those who wander are lost

01-30-2004, 04:50 AM	#3
NightKnight Lost among the Stars Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hiding in Childhood (Sweden) Posts: 2,690	As Selmo, said Beorn was dead. The Barrow-wights were in the Barrow-Downs (duh!). :P Radagast was more concerned with animals and plants, but he did actually play a role, as it was because of him Gandalf could be saved from Orthanc. __________________ There are three kinds of people in this world. Those who can count, and those who can't.

01-30-2004, 06:39 AM	#4
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Beorn's son, Grimbeorn, and his kin were involved during the War of the Ring in fighting Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur. There is some doubt as to whether the Barrow-Wights could leave the Downs (know how they feel [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). And Radagast went native and turned hippy. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-30-2004, 06:59 AM	#5
Kransha Ubiquitous Urulóki Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The port of Mars, where Famine, Sword, and Fire, leash'd in like hounds, crouch for employment Posts: 747	I assumed Beorn was dead, as everyone else said. Radagast was living in a blue painted trailer and had renaimed himself "Dances with Istari". Barrow-Wights probably didn't leave the Downs because daylight could "kill" them. If they ever moved, it would have to be at night and they would have to be fully sheltered when daylight came. If they did that, they could probably make a short but slow journey somewhere, but not during the War of the Ring. __________________ "What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name, Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law. For old our office, and our fame," -Aeschylus, Song of the Furies

01-30-2004, 11:29 AM	#6
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	As said above, Beorn was dead and Grimbeorn, his son, and his people were fighting Dol Guldur and holding the Anduin Vale which holds the most used trade route. The BW's: I guess they never knew anything about the War. I don't doubt Sauron still could use them as slaves, yet how could he reach them? He himself going from Mordor to the Barrowdowns? No, he was Dark Lord and Lords don't do such things, they've got slaves for such errants. yet the Ringwraiths were to stay hidden and crossed the river only at the latest moment. They did pass the Downs, but then there was no time for they thought they almost had the Ring, 4 hobbits and a man alone in the Wilderness against the Nine. I don't think the BW's would take orders from any save from these ten. Radagast: he played a small role in the Books, but I don't think he was that unimportant in the War. First, he was one of the White Council and they practically made the difference, with the assault on Dol Guldur and all their wisdom. And he was the one that had many birds and beasts for friends, so he had probably more spies than any other of the Council, retrieving the most information. In the Hobbit Gandalf is the only one knowing that the orcs and wargs are coming at the Battle of the Five Armies, and I do not doubt that this information came from Radagast. Maybe he had had contact with the Eagles or other birds. I don't think Radagast's power was in fighting, but in gaining information. Like Elrond, whose power was in wisdom. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

01-30-2004, 04:07 AM	#2
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	Beorn died before the War of the Ring.

01-30-2004, 12:39 PM	#7
camomile Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Athens Ga U.S.A Posts: 11	ok beorn was dead. my bad, I knew that.....realy. my orriginal question was intended to follow the lines of WHAT IF and why didnt, such peoples and perhaps other great people who I have neglected to mention(Tom Bombadil)joined the war in an active way.had been able to play a roll. exept for beorn who was dead. I do agree that radagast plaid an imprtant role along with all the white council at Dol-Guldor, but whay did he not do anything after that? you would think that would have been the begining of his involvement in the war not the end. actualy my reason for creating this post was because of the earlyer post about smog still being alive during the war. it made me wonder what it would have been like if everybody with no exeptions was involded. __________________ not all that is gold does glitter, not all those who wander are lost

01-30-2004, 02:39 PM	#8
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	What if...? We do not know! But we do know that the things people did or didn't do in the War made the personalities of those characters and therefore if they did something otherwise their personality would be different. greetings once more, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

01-30-2004, 10:19 PM	#9
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	How/where do you get that Beorn is dead? Or more info about the Barrow-wights? Not that I doubt, I just want to know. Is it in Unfinished Tales? __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

01-31-2004, 01:31 AM	#10
rutslegolas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Elven Lands of India Posts: 533	i tottaly agrree with -lathspell but if the characters would have played a active roll then the whole story would have been different but the elfs in rivindell like elrond,glorfindel could have played a part in the war of the rings and i guess the dwarves would have been a great help in the war but as they were busy fighting the forces of sauron in dale ,i guess they could not help but an elven army from thranduil would have been a great help __________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull - The Phantom.

01-31-2004, 07:36 AM	#11
thephantomcredits Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Posts: 33	I have always wished in the appendicees there were some tale of the fighting in the north by the dwarves, the men of dale, and the lorien elves. __________________ unity in what is essential, liberty in the nonessential

01-31-2004, 07:01 PM	#12
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	There is. There are a couple of semi-vivid descriptions of the siege of the Lonely Mountain and the fall of King Brand and the last stand of King Dain Ironfoot. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

02-01-2004, 05:56 AM	#13
Noxomanus Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 233	It would have been great to have Radagast being more active in the War of the Ring. It's possible he helped out the Beornings and Lothlorien in the north though. His birds might have served as messengers and spies too. I suppose he may even have send the Eagles on their way to the Black Gate.I suppose he knew of the fall of Gandalf and he might have helped I guess.Perhaps he was too busy,knew too little of the affairs or felt too weak to replace Gandalf the Grey. Or he could have had a 'whatever!' stance on it..or he could have heard all about it after Gandalf returned.I still think it's a pity he's mentioned sooo little in LotR. And I still wonder what him being 'a master of shapes and hues' was meant to mean. __________________ Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't

02-01-2004, 08:08 AM	#14
moria dwarf Guest Posts: n/a	i belive being a a master of" shapes and hues" meant he could make someone see what he wanted them to see.that would have been a great asset in the war of the ring.

02-01-2004, 10:43 AM	#15
Noxomanus Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 233	^^If that's the case, it would surely have been an asset.Couldn't it have meant he was a shape-shifter? Perhaps he even had chamaleon-qualities [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Radagast the colour-changing Wizard! They should have sent him to spy in Dol Guldur! I'd love to know what the statement was meant to mean,but alas we can only guess. __________________ Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't

02-01-2004, 03:53 PM	#16
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	Hm, that's an interesting idea. Still waiting to catch up on some of the other histories of Middle-Earth, but I can't buy the books until after my birthday, so as not to rob someone of a gift idea. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I note that in earlier versions of the story (a little blank on whether or not this particular concept made it to the final work in The Sil), Luthien had the powers to give her, Huan, and Beren the shape of different creatures. And of course, Beorn changed to a bear, but only a bear, nothing else. (Far as I know) Again, since I'm not caught up on some of the histories, I do not know for sure, but there were fourth and fifth wizards, right? As in, "the staves of the five wizards"? What about them? __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

02-08-2004, 07:53 AM	#18
Daisy Brambleburr Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 334	I'd always imagined that Radagast had more to do with things than we are told. The eagles, for instance. We know that he sent the Eagle to Orthanc, but what about the other two times? He could easily have had something to do with them. __________________ 'What news from the South, O sighing wind, do you bring to me at eve? Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve.'

02-08-2004, 01:22 PM	#19
Noxomanus Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 233	^^Exactly. I do think Radagast was something of a cowardly wimp but that doesn't stop me from really liking his mysterious ways and character. His name is also fantastic! If only Tolkien had written more about him... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] __________________ Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't

02-08-2004, 03:47 PM	#21
NightKnight Lost among the Stars Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hiding in Childhood (Sweden) Posts: 2,690	I guess their purposes were the same as Gandalf's and Saruman's: to stop Sauron from taking over the world. The only thing I know is that they were called the Blue Wizards, Ithryn Luin. __________________ There are three kinds of people in this world. Those who can count, and those who can't.