Races Representatives... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Haldir · 04-13-2002, 12:57 PM

I think there's not as much dwarves as there's
other races at LOTR:

Men/Human - Aragorn, Boromir, Bombadill
Elves - Legolas, Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel,
Celeborn, Haldir, Glorfindel
Hobbits - Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin
Dwarves - Gimli

Gimli is the only dwarf in LOTR, I guess it's
because there's too many dwarves at the Hobbit
(13 dwarves: Dwalin, Balin, Ori, Nori,Dori,
Thorin, Bifur, Bombur, Bofur, Oin, Gloin,
Fili, Kili)

what do you think on my thoery ?

Niphredil Baggins · 04-13-2002, 01:07 PM

There is Gloin in Rivendell... and the dwarves at Bilbo's party. Oh, and some in Bree, too. But I see your point. In a way, yet, the dwarves get attention, for they are visited, they just aren't home in Khazad-Dum...

Kuruharan · 04-13-2002, 01:39 PM

I agree. The Dwarves were totally gyped in LOTR. Tolkien should have had the Fellowship make a trip to the Lonely Mountain just so we could visit them!

Well, maybe not. But the Dwarves were certainly under-represented in LOTR.

Might have been nice to actually see inside a dwarf-realm that was still fully functional. Even in the Hobbit, we don't see Erebor in working order, it's still a wreck and ruin. In FOTR Khazad-dum was certainly not in working order. Come to think of it, I don't think that anywhere are
we shown inside a dwarf kingdom when it is still in existance. We're only shown inside after it's been ruined and abandoned for a couple of centuries.

Tigerlily Gamgee · 04-13-2002, 02:33 PM

Well, it sounds like we have a case of Dwarf discrimination.
Nah, I mean, yes, Gimli is the only Dwarf fully represented in LOTR, but they did have main parts in The Hobbit. I think that LOTR is supposed to focus around Hobbits and Men (especially Men). Even the elves don't have as big of a role as they do.

Manwe · 04-13-2002, 03:08 PM

Well, I think you can say that the dwarves are a bit to blame. Really, they don't want to be involved, they'r quite happy if they just get on with their mining. ( if this sounds weird it may be because I just read 'The fifth elephant' by Terry Pratchett, and there the dwarves are a bit...special. I might still be infected)

Manwe · 04-13-2002, 03:10 PM

Wait a minute, you put Tom under humans? I supose not, and I don't think I'm alone. Rather give him an own category.

VanimaEdhel · 04-13-2002, 03:40 PM

I agree: Tom should be in his own category, for he is not human. I do not know exactly what he is, but...he is certainly not human.

I actually would have liked if there was a female dwarf somewhere. I realize that they looked so like male dwarves that some may very well have been female in any of the stories, but they were not, apparently. It would have been interesting if Tolkien had brought one in, to show the immense similarities between the sexes. Something along the lines of:
"Why does not (fill in female dwarf name) have his own room? Why must he bunk with (fill in male dwarf name)?"
"Silly hobbit! That is no 'he'! That is (female name), wife of (male name)!"

I know there is no point where that would have been effective, but something along those lines after the Council of Elrond; just a brief little three or four sentence exchange between Frodo and another dwarf, or something...

[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]

Arwen Imladris · 04-13-2002, 07:35 PM

I agree with Manwe, Tom wasn't a human.

The hobbit was almost soly about dwarves, I think that it is perfectly acceptable that they did not recieve as mych attention in LOTR

The LOTR is also sort of (I think) more geared towards being about men, and how they ended up being the only being around today, In large numbers (looks around nervosly at veryus hobbits and elves and dwarves)

I would have liked to hear about a female dwarf as well, the only one that is ever even mentioned is Dis (what a horrid name, no offence) and then only briefly!

Lomelinde · 04-14-2002, 08:24 AM

Dwarves did play a big role in the Hobbit, and then kind of stepped out of the spotlight in LOTR. Dwarves were depicted as a race that didn't care to have many relations with anyone else, and keep in mind that due to lack of female dwarves, their race was diminishing so there weren't many left by the time the Third Age rolled around.

VanimaEdhel · 04-14-2002, 05:12 PM

Well: the dwarves did not get mentioned much (and sort of bowed out of LotR in many ways) because, if you think about it, they care mostly for their own affairs, and care not much for the affairs of others.

Well: The Hobbit concerned the Dwarves, for they wanted their gold back, and they were actually the ones who organized the whole quest. The Lord of the Rings had very little to do with the Dwarves interest. Well...so they thought: most likely, if Sauron obtained enough power once he had the ring back, he probably would have routed the Dwarves out and either tried to make them slaves or killed them.

Melian · 04-22-2002, 08:34 PM

Now that we are talking about dwarves... was Gimli someone important to represent a whole race? I mean, Aragorn and Boromir were important people for men, we know the story of Frodo and his hobbit friends, but what about Gimli (and Legolas too).
Who called them to be at the Council and why? Were they just walking around?

Keeper-of-Vilya · 05-25-2002, 03:38 PM

Gimli came to the council to seek council about Balain and the dwarfs of moria who they had not heard from in a while. Legolas came bringing news of the escape of Gollum.
Not sure why Gimli was chosen to be part of the fellowship. Legolas was an elven prince of Mirkwood... but i have offten wondered why Elrond did not choose his sons to go as members of the fellowship....

GreatWarg · 05-25-2002, 03:49 PM

Well, Elrond's Sons were already off with rangers very often, and they were most likely going to be the last two 'Elves of my household' that Elrond was talking about, but Merry and Pippin wanted to go too. And as Gandalf pointed out, what would they do? Make a clearcut path all the way to Mt. Doom?

04-13-2002, 12:57 PM	#1
Haldir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	Races Representatives... I think there's not as much dwarves as there's other races at LOTR: Men/Human - Aragorn, Boromir, Bombadill Elves - Legolas, Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel, Celeborn, Haldir, Glorfindel Hobbits - Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin Dwarves - Gimli Gimli is the only dwarf in LOTR, I guess it's because there's too many dwarves at the Hobbit (13 dwarves: Dwalin, Balin, Ori, Nori,Dori, Thorin, Bifur, Bombur, Bofur, Oin, Gloin, Fili, Kili) what do you think on my thoery ? __________________ "In place of a Lord you shall have a Queen, not Dark but Beautiful and Terrible as the Dawn, Treacherous as the Sea, Stronger than the foundations of the Earth all shall love me and dispair"

04-13-2002, 01:07 PM	#2
Niphredil Baggins Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 118	There is Gloin in Rivendell... and the dwarves at Bilbo's party. Oh, and some in Bree, too. But I see your point. In a way, yet, the dwarves get attention, for they are visited, they just aren't home in Khazad-Dum... __________________ Wistful, willful, wingless, fly!

04-13-2002, 01:39 PM	#3
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,685	I agree. The Dwarves were totally gyped in LOTR. Tolkien should have had the Fellowship make a trip to the Lonely Mountain just so we could visit them! Well, maybe not. But the Dwarves were certainly under-represented in LOTR. Might have been nice to actually see inside a dwarf-realm that was still fully functional. Even in the Hobbit, we don't see Erebor in working order, it's still a wreck and ruin. In FOTR Khazad-dum was certainly not in working order. Come to think of it, I don't think that anywhere are we shown inside a dwarf kingdom when it is still in existance. We're only shown inside after it's been ruined and abandoned for a couple of centuries. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

04-13-2002, 02:33 PM	#4
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,056	Well, it sounds like we have a case of Dwarf discrimination. Nah, I mean, yes, Gimli is the only Dwarf fully represented in LOTR, but they did have main parts in The Hobbit. I think that LOTR is supposed to focus around Hobbits and Men (especially Men). Even the elves don't have as big of a role as they do. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

04-13-2002, 03:08 PM	#5
Manwe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ilmarin, Taniquetil Posts: 98	Well, I think you can say that the dwarves are a bit to blame. Really, they don't want to be involved, they'r quite happy if they just get on with their mining. ( if this sounds weird it may be because I just read 'The fifth elephant' by Terry Pratchett, and there the dwarves are a bit...special. I might still be infected) __________________ by the way my name is Manwë, not Manwe

04-13-2002, 03:10 PM	#6
Manwe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ilmarin, Taniquetil Posts: 98	Wait a minute, you put Tom under humans? I supose not, and I don't think I'm alone. Rather give him an own category. __________________ by the way my name is Manwë, not Manwe

04-13-2002, 03:40 PM	#7
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,473	I agree: Tom should be in his own category, for he is not human. I do not know exactly what he is, but...he is certainly not human. I actually would have liked if there was a female dwarf somewhere. I realize that they looked so like male dwarves that some may very well have been female in any of the stories, but they were not, apparently. It would have been interesting if Tolkien had brought one in, to show the immense similarities between the sexes. Something along the lines of: "Why does not (fill in female dwarf name) have his own room? Why must he bunk with (fill in male dwarf name)?" "Silly hobbit! That is no 'he'! That is (female name), wife of (male name)!" I know there is no point where that would have been effective, but something along those lines after the Council of Elrond; just a brief little three or four sentence exchange between Frodo and another dwarf, or something... [ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ] __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

04-13-2002, 07:35 PM	#8
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I agree with Manwe, Tom wasn't a human. The hobbit was almost soly about dwarves, I think that it is perfectly acceptable that they did not recieve as mych attention in LOTR The LOTR is also sort of (I think) more geared towards being about men, and how they ended up being the only being around today, In large numbers (looks around nervosly at veryus hobbits and elves and dwarves) I would have liked to hear about a female dwarf as well, the only one that is ever even mentioned is Dis (what a horrid name, no offence) and then only briefly! __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

04-14-2002, 08:24 AM	#9
Lomelinde Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ha! Wouldn't you like to know? Posts: 80	Dwarves did play a big role in the Hobbit, and then kind of stepped out of the spotlight in LOTR. Dwarves were depicted as a race that didn't care to have many relations with anyone else, and keep in mind that due to lack of female dwarves, their race was diminishing so there weren't many left by the time the Third Age rolled around. __________________ The Dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark, drunk, blindfolded and hanging upside down from a tree.

04-14-2002, 05:12 PM	#10
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,473	Well: the dwarves did not get mentioned much (and sort of bowed out of LotR in many ways) because, if you think about it, they care mostly for their own affairs, and care not much for the affairs of others. Well: The Hobbit concerned the Dwarves, for they wanted their gold back, and they were actually the ones who organized the whole quest. The Lord of the Rings had very little to do with the Dwarves interest. Well...so they thought: most likely, if Sauron obtained enough power once he had the ring back, he probably would have routed the Dwarves out and either tried to make them slaves or killed them. __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

04-22-2002, 08:34 PM	#11
Melian Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 27	Now that we are talking about dwarves... was Gimli someone important to represent a whole race? I mean, Aragorn and Boromir were important people for men, we know the story of Frodo and his hobbit friends, but what about Gimli (and Legolas too). Who called them to be at the Council and why? Were they just walking around? __________________ "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

05-25-2002, 03:38 PM	#12
Keeper-of-Vilya Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 19	Gimli came to the council to seek council about Balain and the dwarfs of moria who they had not heard from in a while. Legolas came bringing news of the escape of Gollum. Not sure why Gimli was chosen to be part of the fellowship. Legolas was an elven prince of Mirkwood... but i have offten wondered why Elrond did not choose his sons to go as members of the fellowship.... __________________ Few can see where their road leads them till they come to its end.

05-25-2002, 03:49 PM	#13
GreatWarg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: East of the Misty Mountains Posts: 339	Well, Elrond's Sons were already off with rangers very often, and they were most likely going to be the last two 'Elves of my household' that Elrond was talking about, but Merry and Pippin wanted to go too. And as Gandalf pointed out, what would they do? Make a clearcut path all the way to Mt. Doom? __________________ "What shall we do, what shall we do!" he cried. "Escaping goblins to be caught be wolves!"

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