The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books > Chapter-by-Chapter
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2011, 08:08 AM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,499
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril Father Christmas Letters: 1925

With this letter, Tolkien begins to flesh out his Christmas mythology. Though he writes only one letter for the boys to share, it is long and includes a second note from his new character. The illustration consists of two drawings on one sheet, with numerous explanatory notes. Here it is:



Tolkien does enjoy playing with the "North Pole" concept, doesn't he?! Making it a literal pole is what enables him to create this particular story. (By the way, Hammond and Scull refer to the North Pole as drawn by JRRT as "a large inverted icicle".) He also combines that with "polar bear" to make his new character, the North Polar Bear. The well-meaning but clumsy bear is a character whom the children particularly enjoyed; the JRRT Companion and Guide quotes Priscilla, who describes him as 'the enfant terrible, always involved in crises. His somewhat irreverent attitude to authority gave us particular pleasure'. He also provides Tolkien with the opportunity to use a different style of writing - because of NPB's "fat paw".

What do you think is the significance of FC's move to a new home? Why is the North Pole patched in red - just so that it will show, or do you think there could be some significance to that detail?
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 04:17 PM   #2
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Wonderful thread, Esty, and interesting posts so far on the other one, everybody! Unfortunately I've got to admit I've never read the Father Christmas Letters, only seen the pictures reproduced in JRRT: Artist & Illustrator, so I'm limited to commenting on these and any additional pics you may post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esty
What do you think is the significance of FC's move to a new home?
IIRC the Tolkien Family moved from Leeds to Oxford in 1925, so the children would have been able to sympathize with Father Christmas. Or the other way round: the story echoes the children's own experience and shows them the same can happen to the most exalted persons, which would have comforted them, if they were upset by moving house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esty
Why is the North Pole patched in red - just so that it will show, or do you think there could be some significance to that detail?
Isn't it obvious? They took the red from the star on the right in the upper picture (which "went red when pole snapped") and used it to patch the pole, which is why the star is yellow again in the lower one.

What I love in these pictures is the clarity of a few luminous colours offset by the white of snow/paper and black ink - creates a very wintery, frosty-clear atmosphere which fits the arctic setting very well.

By the way, some of the elements in these pictures resurface from earlier drawings by Tolkien. Hammond & Scull point out that something very like the inverted icicles/minor north poles* can be seen on the 1915 watercolour Tanaqui - it seems he just liked the shape, and it certainly adds something mysterious to a landscape. FC's round house, on the other hand, looks very similar to the building on an untitled pencil drawing from 1914.
__________________________________________________ _

*immanent explanation for these: the Earth's axis shifts through Earth history, doesn't it?, and so does the North Pole. Maybe these are past and future North Poles, some eroded and some not yet grown to full height.
__________________
Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 05:26 AM   #3
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,499
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchwife View Post
Isn't it obvious? They took the red from the star on the right in the upper picture (which "went red when pole snapped") and used it to patch the pole, which is why the star is yellow again in the lower one.

*immanent explanation for these: the Earth's axis shifts through Earth history, doesn't it?, and so does the North Pole. Maybe these are past and future North Poles, some eroded and some not yet grown to full height.
I love your explanations, Pitch! I can't help but wonder, though - why is the new house high up on a cliff?
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:52 AM   #4
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar View Post
I can't help but wonder, though - why is the new house high up on a cliff?
Oh, that's obvious - so it's safe the next time the North Pole snaps.
Also, I suppose those astounding reindeer capable of climbing up a vertical surface need some agility training.
__________________
Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 09:41 AM   #5
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar View Post
Tolkien does enjoy playing with the "North Pole" concept, doesn't he?! Making it a literal pole is what enables him to create this particular story.
I really like that idea, and once again, what else could we expect from such a linguist than a pun like that. That particular joke, however (rather significant one in the sense that it carries through the whole "legendarium" in some way or another, if only by that every time you read "pole" from now on, you are likely to recall that particular joke), gets completely lost in translations - or at least in some: in the Czech one, they simply solved it by a neologism (there is no way I can think of of making a similar joke). I wonder if anybody knows how it is in the e.g. German version? (In general, I think FC Letters is a thing which really deserves to be read in original exactly because of this, but then of course, if there is a large number of people who don't know English - as it at least used to be in here by the time the book was published for the first time, it's definitely better to have the translation than nothing for "casual" Tolkien-interested, especially older-than-teen-age people who don't have the time to start learning English.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esty
The well-meaning but clumsy bear is a character whom the children particularly enjoyed; the JRRT Companion and Guide quotes Priscilla, who describes him as 'the enfant terrible, always involved in crises. His somewhat irreverent attitude to authority gave us particular pleasure'.
Indeed he is! And here I think you have the basis for the future stories involving the "anecdotic element". It is interesting, in some way those FC stories involving PB really resemble the "genre" of anecdote or, if you can e.g. compare it to short comic strips which you can see in many newspapers: usually there is one "more serious" character and then the slightly silly "troublemaker". We don't have to go far, look at the 'Downs very own Phantom and Alien. I think those "archetypes" work pretty well for FC and PB, too. Of course, you cannot reduce it only to that, but there is some sort of "basis for a classic short anecdote-type story".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchwife View Post
IIRC the Tolkien Family moved from Leeds to Oxford in 1925, so the children would have been able to sympathize with Father Christmas. Or the other way round: the story echoes the children's own experience and shows them the same can happen to the most exalted persons, which would have comforted them, if they were upset by moving house.
I must second Esty, great, that's exactly the explanation we've been looking for As for the cliff-house thing, I assume there is not any similarly good explanation like that the Tolkiens' new house was in some similar position, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitch
*immanent explanation for these: the Earth's axis shifts through Earth history, doesn't it?, and so does the North Pole. Maybe these are past and future North Poles, some eroded and some not yet grown to full height.
Yes, I would say that does sound quite good as an explanation! The North Pole's position changes in cycles, so the old poles could also be "rebuilt and reused".
"Slumber, watcher, till the spheres / Six and twenty thousand years / Have revolv'd, and I return / To the spot where now I burn" (H.P.Lovecraft: Polaris)
I also thought exactly about the possibility of the "old poles" being eroded. But the idea of new ones growing is even cooler, I like that.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #6
Mister Underhill
Dread Horseman
 
Mister Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
Mister Underhill has been trapped in the Barrow!
Well I must say that I'm thoroughly enjoying these discussions. Esty, what a great idea for a little holiday Tolkien treat. I'm amazed it never occurred to any of us before now. Well done, as usual!

I confess that I've only ever seen the Father Christmas stuff online. Maybe I'll pop over to a favorite used bookstore, the Iliad Bookshop, to see if they have a copy that I can use to follow along.

As a father myself, I can only bow down to Tolkien's effort. How did he find the time -- and privacy! -- to create these wonderful artworks. I guess things were different then, but he sets a high bar for creating Christmas magic.

I don't have too much to add, except to say that I too enjoy the idea of rising/eroding north poles, and I love the weird juxtaposition of a Lovecraft quote in relation to these letters and Christmas in general. Does anyone have any information on what sort of materials Tolkien used to make the letters?
Mister Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2011, 04:59 AM   #7
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,499
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
If you have Hammond and Scull's JRRT: Artist and Illustrator, you can see some of his FCL work and read about it in the chapter "Art for Children". They give some information on his art materials. Pen and ink, pencil (both black and coloured), and watercolours were his mainstays when drawing and painting, as they were for his other artwork.

I don't know about the paper - the replicas often show a yellowed background, but that could just be the effect of the many years.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2011, 02:23 PM   #8
Guinevere
Banshee of Camelot
 
Guinevere's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,830
Guinevere is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
I love the notes at the borders of the picture (Me! angry ) and the North Polar Bear's writing a p.s. in his "fat paw".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchwife View Post
IIRC the Tolkien Family moved from Leeds to Oxford in 1925, so the children would have been able to sympathize with Father Christmas. Or the other way round: the story echoes the children's own experience and shows them the same can happen to the most exalted persons, which would have comforted them, if they were upset by moving house.
Thank you for this interesting facts!
__________________
Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat
our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

Last edited by Guinevere; 12-17-2011 at 02:29 PM.
Guinevere is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:58 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.