Legolas

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Hi.

It's been a while.

Almost a year actually, since I last logged onto The Barrow Downs.

But I'm back, and with that I've got a short list of evidence pointing toward something I've been thinking about for like five years now, but which I only ever thought about when reading LOTR, which I haven't done in some time.

I'm of the opinion that Legolas is in fact the drunken warden from the Hobbit - OR the elf who came downstairs and got drunk with him.

I'll list why I think this.

1. Legolas expressed keen interest in Saruman's wine when Merry & Pippin were offering provender from the store house. You'd have to be pretty into wine to ... skip your king's big dinner party and get drunk in a stock room near the jail cells. (Sure, the argument can be made that many of the Mirkwood elves were fond of wine, rather than beer).

2. Legolas was in charge of prisoners in the halls of the Elf King in Mirkwood. Need proof? He personally recounted feeling pity for Gollum being locked in a cell, and letting Gollum out for walks and letting Gollum climb the tree to the Council of Elrond.

3. More proof? Gloin's mad comment about "you were not so kind to US" was aimed specifically at Legolas. He didn't say "your King showed less kindness to us". Familiarity? Oh heck yes. Even if Legolas wasn't the warden himself, if he was the other guy, the warden's friend ... he may still have been one of the elves who locked the 13 Dwarves up.

4. More proof after that? As the elf in error, Gollum escaped on his watch, hence he felt personally obligated to go break the news to Gandalf himself.

So anyway, my theory has evidence to back it up ... and though it's hard to specifically tie Legolas down as the very warden Bilbo completely played for a fool, it's got good support. And if you buy into it ... it definitely adds another slant to the already interesting elf prince.

Thanks.

[Anguirel]

I remember reading a fan-fic inspired by this theory.

Keeper, I don't think our careers have overlapped in the past, but I know of you-unliving legend...

I rather like this idea, partly because it seems to be part of a body of evidence pointing to Legolas's relative lowliness; the way in which he is very much not a "Prince of Mirkwood". Perhaps he's a youngest son...

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Nice theory but I'm not sure Thranduil's son would be employed as a Jailer .

I am the Mouth of Sauron .

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It might be hard to see the King's son as performing such tasks, but then perhaps Thranduil was keen to install an ethic of hard and proper work in his son. Parents have to ensure their children do chores.

I like the idea.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

On a related note...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Intresting, but I don't buy it.

1. there is the argument the keeper brings up him self. The whole reasoning about " you are intrested in wine, there for it must be you who got drunk and let the prisonors escape a long time ago" just seem extremly shaky. Nothing I would base a theory on.

2. You got a point. . . but it is not bullet proof.

3. You werent nice to us. . . That sounds more like he is reffering to the people of the woodland realm. I have talked like that to people from other contries several time. It does not have to be Familiarity. I could say what happened the last time you played us. Refering to the time when Denmark beat England 4-1 in Football, but that does not mean that I played for Denmark and the guy I am talking to played for England.

4. Again, you got a point. I must admit I don't remember this part that well, I will have to re read it.

I think you make some points, but mostly I think it is very shaky arguments.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

I guess I'll point out a few more circumstantials.

Legolas sat quiet the entire council until it was deemed his part to speak. Others involved themselves in the conversations prior to that point, so he may have felt guilty and not wanted to bear bad news ... not that it emplicitly pegs him as being at fault feeling bad, or maybe as a Mirkwood elf he simply didn't have much say in matters concerning the Ring, since he didn't know of it.

"Alas! alas!" cried Legolas, and in his fair elvish face there was great distress. "The tidings that I was sent to bring must now be told. They are not good, but only here have I learned how evil they may seem to this company. Smeagol, who is now called Gollum, has escaped."

He's on first name basis with Gollum. So either the guard who lost Gollum gave some pretty detailed information to Thranduil, who remembered it and gave pretty ridiculously detailed information to Legolas to go tell the Council ... or you know ... Legolas IS in charge of prisons and that makes it easier.

I'll argue here that being in charge of prisoners in the elf realm of Mirkwood doesn't imply a lowly or measly task. I don't imagine in a place as nasty as the black woods they actually TAKE a lot of prisoners so when they did, they tended to be important prisoners (prisoners of state, even). Any and all prisoners they took were a big deal. Being in charge of prisoners could have been just one of Legolas' many tasks at home. Obviously we've seen him act in other capacities too ... like ambassador to Rivendell and warrior, and he's clearly pretty educated for a rustic elf.

The prisons in a King's hall are a big deal. We're not talking lockholes at Mitchel Delving here. Those are Royal prisoners.

"We guarded this creature day and night, at Gandalf's bidding, much though we wearied of the task. But Gandalf bade us hope still for his cure, and we had not the heart ..."

WE. "We" (my people) vs. "we" (a few buddies and myself). It's arguable. Like pretty much everything else Tolkien wrote. Tolkien writing follows standards, and if Legolas wasn't involved personally with the prisoner, he'd have said "our guards didn't have the heart" like some snooty, hands-don't-get-dirty prince. We all know Legolas doesn't mind getting his hands dirty with grunt work.

"You were less tender to me," said Gloin with a flash of his eyes, as old memories were stirred of his imprisonment in the deep places of the Elven-king's halls.

YOU. "You" (your people) vs. "you" (you and your damn buddies). Similar argument. If Gloin meant guards and not Legolas personally he'd have probably said "your men were less tender to me." Old-time style language might play a trick on our concept of the specifics of the wording.

Plus when Legolas finally relates the story of the escape, he's implicitly involved, and his use of the word "we" is too often used to be vague.

"In the days of fair weather we led Gollum through the woods; and there was a high tree standing alone far from the others which he liked to climb. Often we let him mount up to the highest branches, until he felt the free wind; but we set a guard at the tree's foot. One day he refused to come down, and the guards had no mind to climb after him: he had learned the trick of clinging to boughs with his feet as well as with his hands; so they sat by the tree far into the night."

See, here he describes at first some serious specifics - he knows the tree, and he was there, otherwise he'd have just said "the guards led him to some tree, and they lost him." He does eventually blame the guards, implying that either he wasn't with them the night they lost Gollum, or that he was with them, but when he asked his guys to climb up, but they didn't want to. I doubt they'd defy their own prince, so my guess is he wasn't there. Either that or he suggested it, but agreed with them that it might be pointless, because Gollum is pretty quick.

But then ... he must have been nearby at the least, because in the next paragraph he's involved again.

"It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce, but they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning, and the spies of the Enemy are many."

Legolas clearly was involved in the fight, he seems to have run off to combat the Orcs and left those same guards at the bottom of the tree to wait for Gollum to come back down. When he got back, his men were vanished and Gollum escaped ... he probably felt pretty guilty. Heck, he then mentions leading several attempts to recapture Gollum. Either he volunteered (very likely), or Thranduil yelled "Find that damn prisoner, Gandalf entrusted me with him!" (not so likely ... since Legolas would be fully aware, and elves are seldom jerks to each other.

We have failed to recapture Gollum. We came on his trail among those of many Orcs, and it plunged deep into the Forest, going south. But ere long it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur ..."

Of course ... just after Gandalf's speech on Saruman's betrayal Boromir drops quotes like "I know the Men of Rohan, true and valiant, our allies, dwelling still in the lands that we gave them long ago."

"We", (my people). Because obviously Boromir wasn't around when Eorl the Young rode from the Wilderland.

But Legolas' describing every single aspect of Gollum's escape implies he was on hand. I guess I can't stress that part enough. You could argue that, okay ... so Legolas was on hand ... maybe Thranduil tasked his princely warrior son with the prisoner because it was Gandalf's special request and he didn't want it blown by his normal jailers since they're drunks. However ... how many prisoners could that place typically have? In 80 years the only prisoners we've heard of are the dwarves and Gollum. Any case involving prisoners was a special event worthy of Thranduil's or one of his prince's special interest.

(Perhaps that's why the jailer and his friend in the Hobbit were so insistent on wine-drinking ... the place NEVER has prisoners, and they just happen to get some prisoners on the night of the big party? Well ... no blasted dwarves are going to ruin their night ... break out the wine! I know, I know ... that's PURE speculation).

So not only could Legolas have been the drunken jailer, or likely enough, his wine-bearing friend ... he was personally responsible for Gollum's escape, and possibly joined the Fellowship because he felt he owed Gandalf BIG TIME for failing that task - enemy conspiracy or not.

He certainly didn't join the Fellowship because he wanted to hang out with four hobbits, a dwarf and two men ... (although Aragorn and Boromir he no doubt respected immediately and likely knew of somewhat, and Frodo Baggins he also no doubt respected greatly).

That was a long one.

Failure as a jailer? Might as well try his hand at saving the world to prove he's not completely worthless!

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Orlando Bloom might have been a lousy jailer but Legolas would have done OK .

I am the Mouth of Sauron .

[mark12_30]

"We guarded this creature day and night, at Gandalf's bidding, much though we wearied of the task. But Gandalf bade us hope still for his cure, and we had not the heart ..."

Hmmm.

I'm not agreeing that this proves your Hobbit-jailer-theory (which is cute and fun)-- but this does bring up some interesting points.

One, it seems that Legolas knew Gandalf, or at least knew of him. Perhaps that is another reason why Legolas is included on the quest.

Two-- they wearied of the task. All right. Weary elves would turn to partying, in order to cheer up-- singing, dancing under the stars, and maybe even drinking. Okay, definitely drinking. I can buy the idea that the walking-jailers-party were trying to keep themselves cheered up.

Three-- "Gandalf bade us still hope for a cure." Did they remind themselves of this daily? Perhaps. How do youy heal somebody who shrieks when you touch him or tie your rope to him? Elf-music has a healing quality to it. I don't doubt that they would sing to Gollum (poor, poor Smeagol) in the hopes that something would stir in his stringy little heart. And singing and wine do seem to go together.

Four-- It does seem that Legolas has a level of authority over the jail system such as it was. Tolkien's text supports this.

Now for the text from The Hobbit...

Then Bilbo heard the King's butler bidding the chief of the guards good-night.
"Now come with me, " he said, "and taste the new wine that has just come in. I shall be hard at work tonight clearing the cellars of the empty wood, so let us have a drink first to help the labour."
"Very good, " laughed the chief of the guards. "I'll taste with you, and see if it is fit for the King's table. There is a feast tonight and it would not do to send up poor stuff!"

Neither of these sound like Legolas to me. Certainly not the butler. And the chief of the guards is called by his title-- which isn't a high enough title to say "prince".

It must be potent wine to make a wood-elf drowsy; but this wine, it would seem, was the heady vintage of the great gardens of Dorwinion, not meant for his soldiers or his servants, but for the king's feasts only, and for smaller bowls, not for the butler's great flagons.
Very soon the chief guard nodded his head, then he laid it on the table and fell fast asleep.

There is the proof that Legolas is not the chief of the guards. Legolas would know the wine, know which bowls to use, and anyway, he would have been at the feast as the king's son, and not have to sneak the wine downstairs. Nor would Legolas have been dressed on the day of the feast with the jail-cell-keys rattling on his belt.

A page later, by the elves arriving from the feast, the butler is named: "old Galion". And the chief of the guards is referred to as "the turnkey". Since elves delight in jibes, surely if Legolas was snoring with his head on the table, they would have said "the princeling" or "the king's son", to emphasize the irony of the situation.

The remote possibility remains that Legolas was one of the party enlisted to roll the barrels down the hatch. I confess I have pondered this possibility before, and had some fun with it. However, there is a pargraph that makes this extremely unlikely, and that is Galion's reaction to the party when they complain of the heavy barrels.

"Get on with the work!" growled the butler. "There is nothing in the feeling of weight in an idle toss-pot's arms. These are the ones to go and no others. Do as I say!"

Not the way you'd address the group if one of the members was the king's son.

EDIT: I agree with Rune on of Bjarne that the "you" and "we" argument holds no water. It was an elves versus dwarves statement, not a Legolas versus Gloin statement.

[Morsul the Dark]

only one problem...bilbo didnt recognize legolas as either of these two charactors