Did Bill Ferny die?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I quite like the phrase away with the fairies.

And it does make me wonder what else the Hobbits got up to on their travels. I would rule Tom Bombadil out though. I mean, the guy just doesn't make sense at all. If ever there's an example of Frodo's deranged warblings, it's Tom Bombadil.

[Mithalwen]

I must admit I always believed the whole of the strange episodes between Crickhollow and Bree were the side effects of Mrs Maggot's mushrooms. Otherwise it is somewhat bizarre ... even for a story that features walking trees, talking eagles etc..

[Mithalwen]

And "Away with the fairies" is a bit harsh if you happened to be referring to the Gildor episode......

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think you are referring to something which I am not, thus I shall probe no more.

We have entered murky waters. What can we be sure of in the text? Perhaps we can trust what is given to us at the end of the Silmarillion. There it tells us that there was a great War and it also says that Frodo the Halfling did indeed cast the Ring into the Fire. Who wrote this? By which tales and songs has this final story come to our ears?

Also, note the discrepancy in the final analysis. Perhaps Gollum never existed either?

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Man, I've been reading all these posts and it's some deep stuff indeed, I wouldn't really call Frodo "mad", I feel a better word would be "traumatised", I think it's quite clear to see in the book as after he destroyed the Ring he used to finger and hold a white pendant that hung around his neck (I'm not 100% sure of all the details of whether or not it was a pendant or a jewel so please correct me if I'm mistaken), this sounds like the acts of a deeply disturbed mind albeit one that is not completely mad.
As for Frodo making everything up in a sort of delerium, I'm not entirely sure what to think although I hope it wasn't as I like the real story better.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

We have entered murky waters. What can we be sure of in the text? Perhaps we can trust what is given to us at the end of the Silmarillion. There it tells us that there was a great War and it also says that Frodo the Halfling did indeed cast the Ring into the Fire. Who wrote this? By which tales and songs has this final story come to our ears?

Also, note the discrepancy in the final analysis. Perhaps Gollum never existed either?

Are you saying that C R Tolkien is a more reliable historian of Middle Earth than JRRT? An interesting hypotheses ... many of us hold that the old boy *whispers* was making the WHOLE thing up*..

The jewel was agift of Queen Arwen ... some sort of Elvish crystal therapy I believe...

[Lachwen]

So we are to assume, then, that the Elves began the whole New-Age thing of using crystals cure bodily ills? Hmmm....that might explain Celebrimbor's obsession with the Three Rings: they had the best crystals in them. Or maybe the best for him; jewelsmith that he was, he probably got terrible tension headaches from concentrating on his work all the time. Maybe he made the Three just to get rid of the headaches...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I think the whole solution to this story revolves on that.

Bilbo's story of There and Back Again was obviously true, as no-one in his right mind would write the word "grocer" on an autobiography (if I have to, I'll use the phrase "commodities trader"), not even Mad Baggins in his right mind.

OK, that's a metaphysical dislocation there. Mad Baggins is not in his right mind. How do you resolve this?

Mad Baggins is in his right mind. He's mad.

Anywhen, Frodo's crystal might be some sort of hallucinogen, marketed by the Elves so they could subjugate the lowly Men once more. Mwahahahaha!!!

Oh, no. Now he's mad.
Wait, how about Bill Ferny.

Bill Ferny is an Elvish propaganda, an allegory for all Mankind. We are gonna have a pony kick y'all in your Shires! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Forgive him. He's mad that way.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Bill Ferny, an allegory for all mankind? Who would have thought that Bill Ferny would turn out to be arguably the most culturally significant character in the entire works of J.R.R.Tolkien? A year ago I would have scoffed at the idea, but now after following the logic, it appears a strong case.

But wait, if Bill Ferny represents the enslaved Man, who do the Elves represent?

[Mithalwen]

Well evolutiuonarily speaking - a low down, sneaky sort with an awareness of the way the wind blows and an eye for the main chance is more likely to suvive than these high minded noble types.. cf the Blackadder dynasty...?

[Lachwen]

You know, Mithalwen, never before I found this board would I have imagined there would be any parallels between Middle-earth and The Blackadder Chronicles. Now I have a mental image of Celeborn shouting "Shizzik! Fresh horses!"

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

. . . if Bill Ferny represents the enslaved Man, who do the Elves represent? (Eomer)

That's an interesting question. But the answer remains far from clear. Certain scholars believe that, due to the crystal issue, the Elves represent some giant crime syndicate marketing drugs. They have a surfeit of canonical evidence backing this theory, some of which are:

Pippin afterwards recalled little of either food or drink, for his mind was filled with the light upon the elf-faces, and the sound of voices so various and so beautiful that he felt in a waking dream. (LotR I 3)

Sam could never describe in words, nor picture clearly to himself, what he felt or thought that night . . . (ibid)

They say that the food was laced with some Elvish hallucinogen, resulting in lapses in memories and outbursts of euphoria among the hobbits.

Other say this is ludacris, and believe that the Elves were the ancestors of today's intelligence agencies. Recall Bilbo's encounter with the Rivendell Elves, or the meeting of Frodo and Gildor. It gives evidence to a vast network of informants spying for the Elves.

Some even surmised that the Elvish "foreknowledge" is but a result of excellent information acquisition and analysis, producing an estimate for the said "foresighted" Elf years before the actual event.

There are other theories concerning Elves, ranging from Wargs and horses to geological outgrowths, but these two are the most well-defined schools of thought concerning the meaning of Elves.

I, however, believe that Elves represent certain species of amry ants found in Africa. I mean, have you seen their cities, or heard them talk? Perhaps a colony of this dwelt near Tolkien's childhood home in South Africa, and these insects gave inspiration to the Quendi.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Bringing it back, I think it's important.

I'm still interested in this discrepancy between the books. Why would the Silmarillion fail to record Gollum? Could it be that *gasp* the chances of such a creature surviving really are non-existant? It's a wonder so many people have believed it. How has Frodo gotten away with this for so long?

Patrons of The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread are familiar with Baggins' anti-Warg propoganda. Is there any malice in his creation of the spook 'Gollum'? What was Frodo trying to achieve?

And do feel free to speculate further about Bill Ferny. That is one question that was never answered to full satisfaction.

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Ah, time to bump this topic I think. It's been three years after all.

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

But don't forget that Bill the Pony made it back to Bree despite Snakes and Wolves (though why he headed back to Bree not Rivendell can only be surmised - may be he was out for revenge). Goodness know what skills he learned on that remarkable journey. My theory is that he made a detour to the mystic east and learnt martial arts from a great master (cf the Matrix cow) and where his hooves were shod with metal from a renowned sword (The Green Dragon Destiny). Thus one blow from a hoof thus shod and wieded with such lethal skill could indeed prove fatal.

Bill the Pony: "But Master, when will I earn the right to have my hooves shod with metal and fulfill my destiny?"

Great Bovine Master: "You must have patience, Grasshopper."

Bill the Pony: "I'm a pony."

Great Bovine Master: "Shhh."

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Could it have been possible that Ferny would have run into Old Man Willow? Disorientated and injured he would easily fall foul of the Old Forest.