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#241 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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Woo! I'm listening to the instrumental now, but have already put together the graphics for the intro, because, uh... I didn't see that you'd finished the whole thing. ^_^
Here's the intro, which looks pretty much how I wanted it to (though I could wish it were smoother). The same effect will continue with the starfield throughout the sung part, though slower. And yes, that's a view of exactly what you think it is. ^_~ (... and the forests are linden on the left, maple on the right, because I couldn't help myself). Okay, I've test-sung it now, and nothing jumped out as really not working, so I'm happy. ![]() I like the interpretation of Amarie as a voice for the whole world (but then, I've been a Finrod fan for a long time...!). I'm now wondering whether we should switch 'Wind' back before 'Finrod's Last Song'; he goes off to die, then we get the mourning, and then he turns it around into a moral victory. (Also, it would deal with the fact that the current version doesn't include the main character for the final three songs!) hS |
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#242 | ||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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![]() ![]() There is absolutely no rush to finish it. In fact, it makes me feel a bit better that for once we swap places and I am not the one determining the pace. :-) Quote:
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As for Truth - I interpreted it initially to fall on the moment of Finrod's death. His last thought, before he "steps through the gate", so to speak. Wind clearly references his already-happened-death and potential rebirth, I am not sure if that can be said truly before Finrod dies. But here is a thought: could Truth occur after the moment of death? En route to Mandos or something? Would it lose potency if it was detached from his death (at the end of Prison Duet)? When does Truth occur? Because that determined the chronoligy with Wind as well. I do agree that mood and moral development suggests Duet - Wind - Truth, but at the same time I am not sure of that works out logically based on the actual content of the lyrics, unless I sshift my mind to reinterpret some things. Edit: I was rewatching the previous videos, and only now realized that the stars reflected in Esgalduin (or whichever Doriath river) are the Valacirca. Man, I was slow on the uptake!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-02-2020 at 07:03 PM. |
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#243 | |||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Also, once we've finished everything and put it all together, having him fade out to his death followed immediately by sunset over the dead Trees would be very powerful. ^_~ (Still deciding whether to include a moonset towards the end of the song; I'm inclined yes, but will see how it looks.) I've also made a few lyrics edit to Wind, because there were some very clumsy lines in there. Highlighted in the Libretto if you want to take a look, but it's just minor edits. (Have also listened to your rough-cut, which highlighted a few of those lines for me.) The only one that still bugs me is that 'fingered branches' one, but I can't come up with a better; it needs the webs/death 'rhyme' too much. Quote:
You asked somewhere about next songs - I has no preferences. I'm happy to draw whatever comes up. hS |
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#244 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Your Doriath river looks pretty! Theirs is maybe not the best, I agree. I didn't realize they were supposed to be the same scene. But now I have to look at the videos to find Menelmacar, because I missed that detail too.
I agree that if Truth is en route to Mandos, then Wind can be the announcement of death instead and preceed it. But we need to make it very clear in our Truth music and visuals what we are intending it to represent. Let's move Wind up. ![]() For fingered branches: how about "slender-fingered"? Also, the rhyme is not that strong anyways, not between pathway/die nor webs/death, because rather than fall on the downbeat as in Russian, the rhyming syllable in the first set falls on the offbeat. The rhyming scheme can also be changed to match the AABB of the first two refrains rather than ABAB. I don't feel strongly about leaving it vs changing it, I will leave it up to you. With the edit we lost what I think is the only use of "destiny" in the musical. ![]() I started working on the Elven choir, and if all goes well this weekend we might be able to showcase some work.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#245 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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PS: thinking that is part of Captivity will be recorded soon, I better figure some stuff out. Firstly, would Celebestel like to be part of the choir? I could leave a musical line free for her. The second question is about the lyrics. I am nkt too happy with "and despite heavy load". Can we change that somehow? Set on shadowy road? Daring shadowy road? Set on perilous road?
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#246 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Also in preparation for the potential group recording on the weekend, I sketched out 3 voice lines for the choir part. My plan is to split them up into separate files, so that we can hear each line individually, and use that to guide the recording. If it works out it will be pretty cool.
I will not have much time between now and our meeting on Saturday to adjust things. So if there is a spot of music that you liked better in the performances (and mine sounds different, because I wasn't following either one exactly) - let me know so I can change it on time. Same for the choir lyrics. Unless you have preferences/suggestions, I think I am leaning towards either "Set on perilous road" - or even "In defiance of Woe". Because "load" was there to rhyme with "boat", which became "floe", so... Going back closer to the original meaning, and getting rid of the "load". What do you say to "in defiance of Woe"? Other less urgent thoughts on lyrics: - Who would dare to challenge me --> Who has dared to challenge me? - Next to him, the rest of them - nothing wrong with this line, but for some reason it's not hitting the target in my brain. I am happy for it to stay, just consodering the possibility of alternatives. Next to him, this ragged lot? Other Eldar next to him? Dunno, maybe just stick with what's there. - Any thoughts on the ambiguous stanza about who is paying which price? I think it makes sense the way it is now (Sauron says this is the payment for impertinence/stubbornness, Finrod says it's also the payment for keeping his honour, and they are referring to the same thing so it synchs up). Also, would Finrod sing along with the choir, as in V1, or only sing the solo, as in V2? Or something in between - like only starting singing mid-way? I don't think this affects what the choir does, as he would just join the dominant melody line if he joins them.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-03-2020 at 10:12 PM. |
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#247 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Celebestel is happy to be in the choir or not, as the needs of the recording demand.
![]() 'In defiance of Woe' is good, I like that. 'Who has dared' too. ... and 'this ragged lot'. I think the 'price' section makes sense at the moment, or at least doesn't obviously not make sense. I like the music! Nothing jumped out as bad, so just go with it. As for Finrod... the V1 recording isn't high-quality enough for me to even tell he was singing! So my instinct is that he doesn't (to make his coming in later more impactful), but it uppa you. Still poking the lyrics on 'Wind'... I've taken the slender-fingered branches down to a single web, which I think helps. Still not sure when we'll record it. ![]() hS |
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#248 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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![]() But simple answer - there is no demand, only whatever she wants to do! Quote:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#249 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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So this is what me and my friend, who shall henceforth be known as Elanor, were up to this weekend. I think we might re-record to clean it up a bit, and then figure out a better way to synchronize the recordings.
In the meantime, I cracked Sauron's melody - it's actually Finrod's lines at the end that I'm not sure about. So I have a workable sketch (played a touch slower than the choir recordings were done). How do you feel about the speed? I thought it would be too slow when I was preparing the Elf part, but now hearing Sauron's lines in between it sounds too fast... PS: For Celebestel and anyone else who wants to take part... Here are the separated files for Voice 1, 2, and 3. Or sing whatever seems right. PPS: seeing that this idea actually has potential for sounding good, I now have a bunch of ideas for how to make it sound even cooler... ![]()
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-08-2020 at 09:02 PM. |
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#250 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Hurrah! I've had a mental sing-through of the sketch and it all sounds good; no problems with the speed. I admit I can't make head nor tail of how the different choir sections line up, but it does sound good!
I think the backdrop for this one will be a repeat of Sauron's throneroom from the Duel, but with ice growing thicker and thicker on every surface as the song progresses. That should be doable. I'll still need to draw the Chorus, though. Speaking of drawing, I finally have Amarie's portrait ready for Wind, which means I should be able to assemble the graphics. Just waiting on the vocals (which might have been done earlier, but I keep forgetting my headset...!) (Also: Galadriel, Elanor, and a Celeb- : I feel very left out of the Lorien Club! ^_~) hS |
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#251 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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A fly-by post to say two things:
a) I've finished the animation for Wind, and will hopefully get it all recorded soon. b) I've flung together a sketch audio of Captivity, stretching your choir sections to fit the music (they're at 98% speed now) and voicing all the solos myself. Which led me to an... interesting way of differentiating Beren. Never Again, but it works for this sketch. (Also, yes, I know I missed the tune a lot.) Captivity - Vocal Sketch c) Did I say 'two'...? I pulled together a bunch of links to different performances in the Libretto; they're down in Appendix A. Of special note is the 2020 ultra-condensed 'play' version, and the adorable 'garden play' from 2012ish. EDIT: d) I've also attempted to rebalance the audio on the Lament: Here it is. I can adjust any piece of the vocals that needs it, I just need to know which. ^_^ hS Last edited by Huinesoron; 09-12-2020 at 01:16 PM. |
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#252 | ||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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![]() Uhhh, we definitely need to re-record the choir. Hearing it with the accompaniment just emphasizes the spots that need to be fixed. I will try to arrange with Elanor to get that done this week. And if we redo everything, we'll do it at the slightly slower pace - unless you wanna go even slower? It's all up for grabs still. Something is also not right with the final 2 paragraphs, but I figured I'll listen to them again in the different versions and figure it out when I get to them. Right now I am on "Through years of hardship". Quote:
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EDIT: speaking of rewatching the finished videos... I went back to the Duel to try and find Menelmacar - it's Orion, right? Sadly the only part of Orion I can normally recognize is the belt, which is hard to find with all the stars being the same "brightness". I looked up what the full constellation is supposed to look like on Google, and I thought I could make him out peeking from behind Finrod. Is that the spot? EDIT 2: I was productive today. Done up to "when I am left alone in this darkness". I will have to see how the choir part sounds with the voices on top. I like the way Finrod's "I was a proud king" stanza turned out. But I feel like Sauron's lines are a bit empty. I might change them up a bit. Yea or nay? (Edit to the edit: I accidentally recorded with the faster speed. Oh bugger.)
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-12-2020 at 08:21 PM. |
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#253 | ||||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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'Shadow'. It's the Quenya cognate of Taur-na-Fuin, though not quite as ominous. Depending on how I-made-this-name-in-2002 I'm feeling the name means anything from 'The shadow of an Eagle's wings as it passes overhead' to 'Evil Shadow-eagle'.
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Sounds good! My usual 'I don't know music' response fits well here, I think. ^_~ ... and! Right, right, right! We have a video! Wind (Amarie's Dream) I may be biased, but I think Celebestel did an amazing job here. I also really like the graphic effects - but also am never doing them again. There's 112 separate images in this video. ![]() This is also Finrod V3, who will be put back into the previous videos when I get a chance. hS |
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#254 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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OMG!!!
![]() The leaves are fantastic. I can see why you are never doing that again, but it was totally worth it. ![]() I think the only thing now missing from it being perfect is a wind-blowing sound effect at the end. ^.^ (May I recommend using a sippet of this recording? Or is it too much fuss to add more sounds?) Today my plan was to finish Captivity up to the confusing part. And then I figured out my mistake that made it confusing. And then I finished Finrod's section. And added an ending. And edited the spots that were bothering me. And basically, I'm happy with it, except that I will likely need to edit the choir sections once I hear what it sounds like with the voice - I haven't done any of that yet. I am particularly pleased with the second half of the piece, when Finrod starts singing solo onwards. I feel like my musical creativity in the first half went into the vocals, but the second half has more character. And I think it sounds epic enough to make up for whatever small errors I accumulated in the melody. I like it.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-13-2020 at 08:19 PM. |
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#255 | ||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Unrelatedly: lyric mismatch! Amarie calls Finrod my lord of constant change, but back in his Ballad, Finrod talks about my own unchanging nature. These don't technically conflict - my interpretation of Amarie's line is that Finrod keeps flitting from project to project ('Nargowhere? I'm hanging out with mortals now!'), but not that his fundamental nature changes - but it's still an odd mismatch. I really like the 'lord of constant change' line, so if either is changed I would prefer to change Finrod's. But... to what? 'my ever-changing nature' or 'my own inconstant nature' would scan, but imply something I don't think is fair to the character. EDIT: Flyby link drop... the Zong videos all appear to be taken from vk.com. Google is perfectly capable of finding all videos with 'Финрод-Зонг' in the title/description on vk, and can even filter to just the long ones. I bet there's stuff here we haven't seen (and will check at lunchtime). EDIT2: Yep! There's another outdoor version, a 2018 concert split across 16 unconnected videos (all linked in Appendix A), and... er, whatever this is. There's definite Zong music in there, but also stuff I don't recognise (and even some narrative sections!). Given that it's from 2019, some of the weird stuff might possibly be the Daeron songs - want to take a look? EDIT3: The 2019 video appears to consist of: Ballad to Amarie, Oath, Aria, Unknown 1 (Elvish Walking Song), Unknown 2 (Elvish Drinking Song), a non-sung Duel (presented rather charmingly as a chess game), Unknown 3 (Elven Mourning Song), Epilogue. So yeah, I really have no idea what's going on. The people behind it seem to be trying to do a full Beren and Luthien ?musical ?film ?horse show, but why they've used big chunks of the Zong is beyond me. hS Last edited by Huinesoron; 09-14-2020 at 07:04 AM. |
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#256 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Brief note:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#257 | ||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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... But "lord of constant change" is open to interpretation, and doesn't carry the same unfair accusation. With regards to Ballad, the Russian doesn't have "unchanging" there. It's "[One] can't curse that I am created this way". I think "unchanging" is not out of place there, because it emphasizes that some things you can change, but some things you're stuck with, you're just made that way. Finrod can't not help a friend in need, he can't not follow his brothers to Beleriand, he can't not follow Beren to Angband. I don't think it necessarily conflicts. However, it's also possible to replace either instance of "change", I don't think either one is that critical that it can't be replaced. I don't think it should me "my own inconstant nature" though, I think that is the opposite of both what he is and what he is trying to say. Quote:
It's interesting that they didn't include Truth, which is the only Zong song that has a direct reference to the fic and makes me believe the theory that one inspired the other. The "arrow set in flight" metaphor is one that is used twice in the fic to describe Finrod.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#258 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Exciting! Do you know if they keep all the song lyrics the same?
I've just been watching the 2020 stageplay, which is very pretty, but also very neatly gets rid of That Thingol Moment: it casts the Thingol-Melian duet as taking place during the meeting with Beren (Thingol threatens him with a sword!), and then cuts the duet off hard to segue straight into the Aria. I'm now wishing desperately that it was possible to move the Quarrel to after the Duel, and have it cut off not by Thingol, but by Luthien. I don't think it's possible without rewriting Cel'n'Cur's opening lines, sadly - they're too obviously talking directly after Finrod leaves. Also the shift might take the focus away from Team Finrod for two long, with three back-to-back Feanorian numbers. Ah, well. ![]() hS |
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#259 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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"Everyone dies ![]() ... But the story doesn't end there!" MELIAN: In reality everything was different. Thingol, my husband, was quite the blockhead. I have long been bored of our Elvish forest. I want to taste the wonders of the dark side! ?SAURON: I have long been bored of the cursed Silmaril. Life in the citadel of evil is dreary without feminine powers I could have been enticed by Finrod - [censored for family friendly purposes] But I would have delighted more in a woman's charms. MELIAN: Who is this fair man who stands before me? Is he not destined to me by my fate? I suddenly understood: I need only you! I am ready to be yours, O Dark Lord! SAURON: Come to me, and we will live without a care in the world I will [do some censored things] BOTH: Together we will finish this eternal war We will join the forces of light and dark as one! "And they lived long and happily ever after." ...Sauron here clearly has some unfulfilled erotic fantasies. Quote:
EDIT: glancing briefly at some of the other stuff you've linked - some of these might be good for musical inspiration and reference. For instance, I overall like Showdown best of all in V2, but there are some with quite good acting, and the 2018 concert has a very musically clear Sauron who will be much easier to copy when the time comes. Also, I've seen the 2006 outdoor performance before, and I recommend it for the goofs. It's meant for people who already know the play and will get the inside jokes. The actors are having fun with it. Also, it has V1 Finrod where we can see his acting in Truth - though musically I prefer the V1 recording, I am not a fan of the metal version and I think he sings better there.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-14-2020 at 08:31 PM. |
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#260 | ||||
Overshadowed Eagle
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![]() Still, it's nice to imagine a world where Thingol doesn't Steal the Mic. Quote:
I'm currently assembling a list of links at the start of each set of lyrics, so that all the versions are easily findable. Which brings me on to: I've steadfastly maintained the split from the Libretto between Beren's Coming and Appeal, but I'm not convinced it holds up musically. The 2006 performance has Beren sing exactly the same tune for 'Is this not the wonderous Nargothrond?' and 'I beseech you, lend me your aid, my king'. If you think it's useful to have them separate, cool, but as a non-musician I think they're the same song. (In contrast, I reckon the four lines that link the Mic Theft to the Aria should stay with the Mic Theft, because they endcap that song. Moving them to the Aria means letting Thingol's actions go unchallenged in the song itself.) Quote:
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#261 | |||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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The other place where I get this feeling of "this is a single long evolving piece" is with Bloodzining/Hate. I hear it as 4 sections that are all inseparably connected: the Zoning, the "she's mad / I'm mad", Hate, and What Madness Have I Done. In my mind this part also just flows together directly, but it's easier to separate than the Aria is. EDIT: An update on where Captivity stands - I experimented with the choir sections and edited them to my liking. The music is now ready. It's the same length and speed, just minor details changed. I am waiting for a non-hoarse-after-work day to do a proper recording though, and I am waiting for Elanor to send me her part as well.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-16-2020 at 01:35 PM. |
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#262 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Said - done. ^.^
(With a significantly euphemized Sauron, despite which this poem could still find a worthy place in 50 Shades of Gandalf The Grey, the annals of which I believe are kept among other ancient scrolls in the lore-storage of Helsinki.) MELIAN: Really, nothing happened thus. Thingol, my dear king Was a royal dunce. I am so fed up with our Elven forest trees. I wish for a taste now of the Shadow's mysteries! SAURON: That accursed Silmaril has bored me near to tears. Lacking woman's touch, my stronghold's halls are drab and drear. * Finrod would have been enticing if he weren't so thin, But delight is greater in the features feminine. MELIAN: Who stands now before me, more gorgeous than an Elf? Is he not predestined for me by fate itself? I need you alone, of this suddenly I'm sure. O my Dark Lord dear, I am ready to be yours! SAURON: Why don't you come over, and we'll *gaze* the night away. "Palantir and chill" - is that the phrase that Men now say? BOTH: Two of us together can make all this war undone: Force of light and darkness, united into one! * I am confused by this stanza, because "my Silmaril" and "Citadel of Evil" sound more like Morgoth, but on the flip side Silmaril is singular and Finrod never faced Morgoth. I am not sure which of the evil dudes Melian is eloping with. I figured it's probably still Sauron, so I changed it up a bit to match. Doing this, I realized that I am building jokes on a song that is meant to reference and parody a musical that is based on half a chapter of a somewhat obscure book that most people haven't heard of, and deliberately making references to the translation of the musical that barely anyone even knows about. Just the level of involvement required to actually get here is... ![]() But it was enormously fun to write. I loved playing the contrast of "high" phrases and slang phrases. ^.^ EDIT: Just watched the open air 2010 performance. It's only segments of the concert, performed by 3 vocalists. It is kinda weird to see Sauron do Beren's parts (though he changes his jacket to indicate the role swap). Finrod sings quite well. Unfortunately they still seem to be experimenting with siiiingiiiing reeeeaaaallyyy sloooowlyyyy, which kinda ruins the Duel as it loses momentum. But I liked Truth. They do some lyric changes in Dream, in Luthien's part*. They also have Luthien begin the final stanza (Let the wind rage...); other performances have Beren take the lead; that's something we can ponder when we get to that song. I guess the same applies to that stanza in the Showdown. The guy whose youtube channel the video is on - it's the guy who plays Sauron, and from what I understand is also the musical's producer. He also has the 2007 concert clips, but you probably knew that already. * Let heart rather than duty decide all. Let my path lie over abyss. The threads of previous [?can't hear] [...something about immortality... something something] My soul belongs to you (in echo of "what is and has been mine", except it's "yours").
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-16-2020 at 08:38 PM. |
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#263 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Sooo... I was thinking, Captivity is hanging a bit in the air now waiting for the vocals, but here is what I am 99% sure is the final (oooh, dangerous word) version of the music. When I have the Elven parts recorded, I can try to overlap them to the music and send you the Audacity file, maybe, to avoid sending you so many voice recordings - but whatever works best, just let me know.
In the meantime, we're back to "you pick!" ![]() (The song after next will probably be more limited, because that will be nearing exam time again)
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-17-2020 at 05:46 PM. |
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#264 | ||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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^_^ ^_^ I am transfering The Euphemisms of Sauron to the Appendices now.
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![]() (At some point we'll want to talk about how much 'publicity' we want to give the translation. We could probably reach a fair audience by comment-bombing all the Zong videos on Youtube if we wanted to.) Quote:
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I don't know. ![]() ~~~ Still no images for Captivity, but! I've upgraded the video for the Lament to include NuFinrod and the rebalanced audio. The new link is here. hS |
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#265 | |||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Speaking of Truth - I found a copy of the Athrabeth and was skimming it, and saw that Finrod actually uses the words "heirs" and "inheritance" with regards to mortals. Isn't that what you had in the first draft - of Secondborn inheritors? I did not realize at the time this was a Finrodism, or Tolkienism. It doesn't sound as smooth (it would have to go as "inher'tors"). But if this was an intentional reference, maybe it can be worked back in - though I almost have more hope for "heirs" than "inheritors" in terms of how the word structure fits the scansion. On the topic of lyrics, I did another sing through after watching the different performances, and the fiddling (TM) came out again. - Any who stand in our way will be cast at our side to the dark we court! --> And any...? (I guess we'll see what ends up being more comfortable to sing) - Waves of the Sea --> Waves of the Great Sea? (Ideally Wind of the West would have an extra beat too, but if not, neither one is critical) - One by one, the oath-bound warriors fall --> ALL the oath-bound? It sounds a touch better with the extra beat, but I don't think ALL is appropriate (cause technically none yet and in the Zongverse only 4-5 of the brothers). - That my heart lies cold by the way --> ON the way? - I leave a beggar, as when I came here --> AND I leave a beggar? - I know exactly how to make this good / If you bring my daughter back at once -- I was thinking for a while if there's a better way to rhyme this. I would suggest "surely" instead of "exactly" for scansion purposes, but not sure I can offer anything for the rhyme. There is "I know surely how to fix this fuss / once", but it also has to rhyme with "push", so I got stuck there. - Can turn our lives from shadowed journey -- a question of intended meanings: would Melian be more likely to say "can turn our lives" or "will turn/save/shield your realm"? - And fate does not know grace or mercy! -- even more of an aesthetics question: "And fate knows neither grace nor mercy"? - And I will fight for that which always has been mine! --> is the "always have been" out of place here a bit, without the present tense "is" variant? Is it better rephrased? And I will fight for that which is and has been mine? - For the Oath's sake I forsook my own home, braving the Sea and bitter Cold -- currently has an emphasis on "THE sea". Another Great Sea? Or leave it as is? - Is he leading an army to Land of Woe? -- a force can be 10 people. But what about a host? Though considering that Luthien uses Land of Woe again without a preposition just a couple lines down, maybe it's best to keep the pattern. - Then I will kiss the ground where he lies still... --> On this one, I always have to remind myself which meaning of "still" it's supposed to be. Also, in an ideal world it would rhyme with "wolves". How do you feel about something like "where he last stood" as an alternative? - Your throne will crumble into ash -- another weak alternative for rhyme: Into the dust your throne will sink...... meh. I am near ready to give up on this one. - And in the dust the gold did shine! -- is this enough of a parallel to "golden dust is shining in the heights"? Or would it be better if "heights" was on there as well? But then either "dust" or "gold" has to go, I can't find a way to fit all 3 nouns into this phrase. - But, life entrusted to fate's hand --> life surrendered? A touch stronger, perhaps - More mute than stones - only the dead -- I realized later that the Russian word can mean either "mute" or "numb". My first instinct was "mute": not only are they trying to be mute as stones in the face of Sauron's questioning, but it also echoes the symbolism of their imminent deaths as songs ending and last horn call dying etc. But "numb" can also work, they probably wish they would be numb as stones as well. Do you feel strongly about either interpretation? - But mysterious still --> scans and rhymes a bit awkwardly. How about "But greatest/strangest of all lore"? - Light and dark can both be damned! -- if you really want the abyss reference, there's "Abyss may swallow light and dark". Or "abyss may take both light and dark". But so far I got nothing that would be a good equivalent of "both light and dark can be damned and devoured by the abyss for all I care". Quote:
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In terms of the "currently singable" Luthien/Feanorian songs, there is Meeting (if you sing Beren), Dream (ditto), Bloodzoning (I believe the bros take turns responding to Luthien), and Showdown. Oath has the Bros dueting, but that can be fixed by recording twice if we don't find someome to join in. Quarrel and Hate also have Thingol, which makes it more difficult. Hate is my favourite of the Feanorian songs, but 1) We don't have the voices for that (yet), and 2) It would make more sense to do the Bloodzoning first, because Hate transitions right out of it. Maybe the Bloodzoning? That gives an opening for all three of them without going beyond our current vocal capabilities. If it's too much to draw all three at once, maybe Oath - and we'll figure out a recording once we get there. Quote:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#266 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,313
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Aaaaand we have a Beren! ...at least for now. Legate said he'll work on the recording next week.
I have translated another song (I know ![]() We now stand on the boundary, on Sauron’s border. It’s becoming more doubtful that we walk unnoticed. Here the nature itself follows his evil order, And it’s nearly impossible to stay unaltered. Unless we, like a garb, wear a guise without defect - Take the shapes of these demons, their horrid appearance - We’ll be stopped, we’ll be waylaid, there will be a pretext, And this dirt and this gear will not make any difference. (All this raggedy gear will not make any difference) Make a circle ‘round the flames!If you now allow yourself to become beastly So to blend with the beasts of the enemy’s vile bands, Having hidden the tracks, and believing nearly In the chance that we might pass unseen through this land, If the wolves miss the scent of our blood and our strained breath, If we’re taken for Sauron’s troops at the border - Then I have hope that we do not walk toward vain death And that you, Mortal, will live unharmed through this horror. (And that you, Mortal, will live unharmed through this horror) Make a circle ‘round the flames!Road, escort me through doubt, through dread From the threshold of my homestead, Through the gloom of tangled forests to the edge my feet convey From which there is no returning. Anguish, sorrow, partings, mourning - Road, please lose them in the dust, but keep the imprints of my trail! Of your still uncertain meaning I knew not in the beginning. Road, escort me to the darkened halls where night rules over day! Show me if the light will vanish For this song is left unfinished Road, instruct me in the wisdom which you only can relay! (Which you only can relay!) (The final stanza seems to be in Elvish, and here your guess at the meaning is as good as mine and probably better. I think there's a hyarmenta in there, but otherwise have no idea what he's saying). By the way, you were totally right that this is a horse show group. They advertise themselves as a combination of horse + theatre club thing. By the sound of it they've already worked on a couple of Tolkien productions (names like Weathertop and Mirkwood come up in their past titles), and are currently working on staging this fanfic in full. They have some cool photos which might be useful for inspiration hunting: gallery and the Lay adaptation, and instagram. It seems like the play in the video is set by their "trainees", while the photos are more of the "experts". Of the trainees, my favourite look/acting is probably Celegorm (though Curufin's "whatever brother, fine, I'll roll along with it" is also very deserving).
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#267 | ||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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The line that really threw me was the golden dust one, actually - it seemed to fall as "THE gol-den DUST is SHI-ning", which sounds weird. I'll have a poke at it sometime. Now, the Lyric Party! Any who stand in our way will be cast at our side to the dark we court! --> And any...? Happy to put it in, but I think I was using that beat to draw breath! Waves of the Sea --> Waves of the Great Sea? Sure; and how about 'Breath of the West Wind'? One by one, the oath-bound warriors fall --> ALL the oath-bound? I actually want "seven oath-bound"; I was never happy to drop the 'seven' from the next line. And I think it parses: "one by one, the seven fell, until only two remained". That my heart lies cold by the way --> ON the way? By = beside, as in 'abandoned by the side of the road'. I leave a beggar, as when I came here --> AND I leave a beggar? Sure I know exactly how to make this good / If you bring my daughter back at once How about: I know a perfect way to fix this up If you bring my daughter back at once I will promise her in marriage To whoever gives Beren the shove. Depends a little on how you pronounce 'once' (wunse or wonse). Can turn our lives from shadowed journey I'll put in 'shield your realm' here for now, but I'm not positive it fits with 'journey'. And fate does not know grace or mercy! > And fate knows neither grace nor mercy? Yes! And I will fight for that which always has been mine! --> And I will fight for that which is and has been mine? Um. I've tried to avoid 'has been', because I don't think it says as much. This line could scan as To fight for that which is and always has been mine, but that takes away the declarative statement. For the Oath's sake I forsook my own home, braving the Sea and bitter Cold "Braved the Great Sea". Is he leading an army to Land of Woe? -- a force can be 10 people. But what about a host? Though considering that Luthien uses Land of Woe again without a preposition just a couple lines down, maybe it's best to keep the pattern. Actually I think I like 'host'. Then I will kiss the ground where he lies still... --> On this one, I always have to remind myself which meaning of "still" it's supposed to be. Well, that might be intentional ('he's still there' and 'he's not moving' both make sense!), but point taken on the rhyme. I think I thought it rhymed with still/fell. where he once stood. Your throne will crumble into ash -- another weak alternative for rhyme: Into the dust your throne will sink... Is it meant to rhyme with 'king'? I'm toying with something about swords ringing, but it might run a bit far afield. And in the dust the gold did shine! -- is this enough of a parallel to "golden dust is shining in the heights"? Or would it be better if "heights" was on there as well? But then either "dust" or "gold" has to go, I can't find a way to fit all 3 nouns into this phrase. If we're definitely linking this to Tirion and Earendil, something like 'In diamond dust the gold did shine' might work. But I think it draws the link as is. But, life entrusted to fate's hand --> life surrendered? Yus. More mute than stones - only the dead -- I realized later that the Russian word can mean either "mute" or "numb". My first instinct was "mute": not only are they trying to be mute as stones in the face of Sauron's questioning, but it also echoes the symbolism of their imminent deaths as songs ending and last horn call dying etc. I think 'mute'. Stones talking is a Tolkienism ("Deep they delved us, high they builded us"), while stones feeling is a Simon&Garfunkelism. But mysterious still --> scans and rhymes a bit awkwardly. How about "But greatest/strangest of all lore"? "But greater than my lore". With the added bonus that in my accent, that could also be "my Law", and it was Beren's appeal that caused Finrod to set aside his rule. Light and dark can both be damned! -- if you really want the abyss reference, there's "Abyss may swallow light and dark". It would be "To the Abyss with Light and Dark", but I really like this line as is, so unless you feel very strongly I'd like to keep it. Quote:
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![]() Drawing for "Captivity" continues (I have the Faithful now), but while I'm here, these are my original Beren and Luthien: ![]() Luthien is V1 Luthien wearing V2 Galadriel's dress, while Beren is just V1 Beren with canon-corrected hair. I've not seen any particularly great Berens - they all seem to parse him as a Barbarian Hero - but there's a lot of Luthien variety. Do you have any suggestions as to which would look best? EDIT: Yeah, pretty sure that last stanza is Quenya, but sung so fast I can't parse it. I'm hearing Vilya [something], Vilya Calma at the beginning, which would mean he's evoking the Sun and Moon ("Vilya calma" is literally "sky lamp"). hS Last edited by Huinesoron; 09-20-2020 at 02:18 AM. |
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#268 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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After a busy morning's work, I have a completed draft video for Captivity!
I feel ill at ease about that purported minstrel... (Obviously featuring me as Beren again) I would appreciate any notes on the volume balance, because I think it wanders badly. Also any points where I've wandered off-key. Also, this is only 20 slides, so is nice and easy to update at need. ![]() I was also thinking about the lyrics while uploading it... how would you feel about switching Finrod to singing The price I pay, my honour to retain? I don't think it changes the meaning any, just cleans it up a little. hS |
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#269 | |||||||||||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,313
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First things first -
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I think the only off-key place that really needs a second take is Finrod's "I've been a proud king" section, because it's several notes on a prominent stretch of melody. Possibly Sauron's "I feel ill at ease --> fell", which has a couple of spots. Otherwise, nothing major. I like both your Finrod and your Sauron. ![]() Quote:
A question - how easy would it be to insert/replace the vocals? And in what format (ie do you want me to send the Audacity again, or mp3s?) Uhh, I am not sure. But is there anything else that he can be talking of (except the more metaphorical "I see goodness and hope in life again")? In Russian, there are no heights, not for him or for Melian, and at that point in time I wasn't sure what Finrod was referencing, again aside from the metaphorical seeing hope and beauty in life again. But once we've added the heights, that gave an extra detail with potential for an additional interpretation. Could he be talking about Valinor? Quote:
I like the golden heights line, it's one of my favourites in that song! I read it as "a GOL-den DUST is SHI-ning", which is how I would say it if I was just talking normally. Maybe when I attempt to synch the choir today, I will record this snippet as well to see how it sounds. Now, the Lyric Party - Again! Quote:
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...Ooooh, wait. I've been mixing up the Russian and English lyrics again, they come in a different order. In Russian it's "your friend perished, there are no news of him" - "I want to see the grave in which he lies" - "he must have become carrion-fodder" - "I will kiss the ground where he fell/died". That sequence makes it sound like there is no final resting place for Beren's body, he's been eaten by crows and wolves and whatnot, and not "still" there. And then I read again the English, and realized that the logic of the conversation doesn't match up the same way / in the same order, and... Sorry for the confusion. :-o Quote:
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But back to the question - personally I don't feel that we need to take out Morgoth's mentions, or Angband's mentions, or any of the other extra names we put there that weren't present in the original. I think that it's worth distinguishing that Finrod's story is separate from Beren&Luthien's story, and that there are things outside of it that will continue to exist unresolved. B&L still need to continue their tale: get the Silmaril, face the mightiest of all (twice, with different meanings). I don't think it's wrong in this context to reference their future story without imposing it on the present story, which is Finrod-focused after all. Quote:
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(You know, I have nothing against Luthien wearing whatever dress she wants, but when Galadriel is cosplaying Luthien it's just poor planning on the costume design. She could have worn any other colour, and had flowers other than niphredil in her hair, and - oh, whatever.) Quote:
... Captivity is looking so good! ^.^ I just rewatched it again, and again. By the way - what do the runes on Sauron's throne say? Also, I might have assumed you know what I'm talking about when you might not, so to clarify just in case - Legate is our Legate. Legate of Amon Lanc.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-20-2020 at 10:19 AM. |
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#270 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Update -
Just sent you the Audacity file with the old recordings swapped for new ones were needed. And, because I was in a Finrod mood, here is a musicless (and hence not entirely on-tune and evenly-paced) Truth to see how it sounds.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#271 | |||||||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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Unfortunately, it turns out the Audacity files really don't transfer well between computers (or rather, they need their _data folders with them, and I'm not even sure that would work). So I think the best way to handle the data is to send me the bare vocal MP3, plus some sort of time-synched version; that can either be an audacity-synched export, or just a recording of how it should sound. ![]() Quote:
He walked in the deserted ways of Tirion, and the dust upon his raiment and his shoes was a dust of diamonds, and he shone and glistened as he climbed the long white stairs. We use it 6 times: metaphorically from Luthien and Finrod, literally and metaphorically from Amarie, and the two Golden Dusts. I think the 'Truth' version holds up: this is Finrod's vision of the future of the Silmaril, and the coming of the Mariner. The one word I'd like to change is 'cursed', because in this context the Silmarils are a force for good. 'Blessed' sounds too much like an ironic epithet, and 'holy' is over the top... 'hallowed'? The Prison Duet... so Beren is giving a Beleriand Hunter's view of despair, and I think it'd be nice for Finrod to be specifically talking about Valinor. So let's see: Sky-ships did wander, cast adrift Golden dust glittered at my feet Ships wandered aimless through the sky Gold in the fallen dust did shine Untethered sky-ships drift away Gold shines the dust with fading day Quote:
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If you can find a second Feanorian that would be awesome, but if necessary I can probably differentiate them. (I'm currently thinking we might do a full re-cast once the whole thing is finished, so we can hand various vocalists the completed Zong and say "karaoke this for me". That's why I've stopped rattling on about the voices, and also why I haven't gone looking for people myself.) Quote:
I still think V1 Luthien is adorable, but am happy to change her up. I like that Celegorm, and will pilfer his face. Quote:
I did assume you meant that Legate; it's such an unusual word... has anyone asked if he's a Roman senator or a Catholic messenger? ^_^ I'll squeeze his full title into the credits at some point, I was rushing to get the last slide in. hS |
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#272 | ||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,313
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I think Luthien is as tricky to draw as she is to sing or act. The most beautiful face and voice in Beleriand is a pretty tall order. Quote:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#273 | |||||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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#274 | |||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,313
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- They are "ships of the skies". "Wings" are not mentioned, and that would not be my first assumption on hearing the words. However, what the intention of the authors was, I cannot say for certain. - Feanor's bonfire party was what I originally assumed Finrod was referring to. My first read (/listen) was "vague filler about dust - ship-burning to reference the brother turning on brother theme - Silmarils are cursed, turned from representing the Light to representing Morgoth's darkness and the Fall - but brighter than all of these things burns... whatever Finrod realized upon his death". - My revisited interpretation features Valinor. But I am still not sure if it's Valinor as it was in Finrod's memory, or will be (when Earendil comes? when the Noldor are forgiven? in Arda Remade?). Or, what I am actually leaning towards, the present Valinor as Finrod's fea approaches it. - If it's Valinor of the future, then the Ship should probably be Earendil (burning in the sunset only metaphorically), and then the Silmarils should definitely not be cursed but fateful/fate-bound/whatever, because the line of thought is a positive one. - If it is Valinor of the present, then I still think the theme of the middle lines is dark, matching the dark present Finrod is leaving and contrasting the burning of the ships and stones with the fire that's brighter. It reads more like: I am approaching Valinor, leaving Middle-earth where evil is strong - but now I am sure, and not just hopeful, that there is something stronger still, and evil won't last. In this case, I would say that either cursed or fate-something would still apply, they both have sufficient gloom, so both options are still on the table. - But this doesn't help me figure out what memory Finrod is trying to affirm in Prison! What is his "this once was" talking about? Dust - sure, both Valinor and the beauty/goodness of life metaphorically. Ships? The metaphor might still apply, but only stretched thinly. I sometimes feel that the line is literally only there for linking with Truth. Quote:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#275 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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And here is the first sample of Oath, for tasters. Except I will probably be redoing it, because first it took me a while to get into the swing of it, and when I started feeling the music it ran away to somewhere heroic. Or will it sound less so with the vocals on top? I don't know. Any suggestions? I think I am lacking a good mood description to direct the flow of the music. Angry? Nasty? I was going for "dark" initially but that seems too vague.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#276 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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I think almost all versions of the Oath come out as closer to a hard rock/heavy metal feel; it reminds me very much of Nightfall (which may not be a coincidence). It's angry... proud... defiant might be the best word. This is the Sons of Feanor casting their Oath into the face of the Light and Dark alike and daring anyone to stand against them. ("Light and Dark can both be damned!"...) Just don't ask me how to put that into music. ^_~ hS |
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#277 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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A number of things have come together - I'm back working from home, and I've acquired a better video editing program* - and have led me to consider upgrading from 'digital sketch' to 'pencil-coloured portraits'.
[Edit: big picture removed, see below] I'm pondering doing something like Jenny Dolfen did with her Sons of Finwe pins, and letting them escape the frames a little; we'll see if I can find natural ways to cut the portraits off to do that. (Yes, if I do this it will mean a fourth Finrod, eesh.) Heraldry would remain digital. Backgrounds... digital for now, though open to change in the future. *The new software is OpenShot, which has - gasp! - layers. Which means I can shift the 'assembly' stage from image editing to video editing, and can insert revised artwork much easier. I spent an hour or so transferring the Captivity video over to OS night before last, so that one will be all ready to go once we have all the voices. EDIT: So I did Cel'n'Cur. ![]() Spacing and background are just for the demo, but it kind of... works? hS Last edited by Huinesoron; 09-24-2020 at 02:43 PM. |
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#278 | |||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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The thing is, I can't write it in hard rock/heavy metal genre. It's just not a genre I feel I can do, even if I figured out how to score the right instruments. I don't actually know what I'm doing most of the time, just going by what feels right, and I have no feels in the realm of metal to go off of. So I'm also simultaneously transposing it onto a more classical instrument assembly - like having the piano take over the role of percussion. I got some surprise inspiration with - you'd never guess - the fast theme from the score of How To Train Your Dragon. It also has a strong bass/sax section, and lots of triplets, so there was some unwilling association. I am hoping that by cleaning up the volume a little bit you'd be able to hear the melody a little bit better; right now everything is kinda set between "loud" and "very loud", so it's hard to make out the notes that are supposed to stand out in that soup no matter how much I accent them.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#279 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Hurrah! I had to completely redraw Curufin's eyebrows on the computer, because he looked - shudder - happy in the original.
Next up is redrawing Finrod, and then deciding whether Wind or the Lament will be easiest to reconstruct in the new style. Quote:
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#280 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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![]() I expect the middle part to be a lot easier. But then, it's all sung on one note. You know what? I might change that a tiny bit if I can make it work, because it's just boring otherwise.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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