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05-10-2006, 08:30 AM | #3121 | ||
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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++agree with the brother of my brother's crush and my daddy
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
Last edited by Thinlómien; 05-10-2006 at 08:42 AM. |
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05-10-2006, 08:32 AM | #3122 | |
Child of the West
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn
Posts: 2,132
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++ Do not care
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"Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain |
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05-10-2006, 08:39 AM | #3123 | |
Drummer in the Deep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,138
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As I said earlier -
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before
I listen for returning feet and voices at the door |
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05-10-2006, 09:13 AM | #3124 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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To all the people not in favor- as the phantom pointed out, discerning the roles using the tallies won't be terribly difficult, it will simply require more than a read through. This will also continue to generate discussion later in the game (you know, when everything gets so frustratingly quiet?) Don't be intellectually lazy.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen |
05-10-2006, 09:22 AM | #3125 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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Double post, sorry...
I just thought of this (For all you nay-sayers):
If the EW finds out who the GW is, he/she/it can simply wait until they see that the seer is dead then call the GW out, thus pretty much finishing the game for the villagers. It allows the EW to time his or her reveal to their own advantage. Of course, if we have only tallies, the EW can't really know when the best time for the wizard deul is.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 05-10-2006 at 09:43 PM. |
05-10-2006, 10:01 AM | #3126 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
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9 in favor, 13 opposed, 4 don't care.
We will be revealing the most recent role as well as to who was killed each Night. "So it was said, so it shall be done." -or- "Make it so." |
05-10-2006, 10:20 AM | #3127 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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LMP- I thought you said voting on this was open until 6 pm EST today. 3 poeple have yet to vote.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 05-10-2006 at 10:23 AM. |
05-10-2006, 10:22 AM | #3128 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 31
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It may not be the most fair, but there are explicit exploitations to be made either way. The question is: which side has the smallest chance of winning? Then throw it their way.
I realize that it's pointless at the time, seeing as how everyone makes decisions and votes are made before I even get online, but... ++Not in favor. EDIT: Cross-posted with Roa. Though it really doesn't change my meaning.
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My, that's a rather sharp piece of wit you've got there. Why don't you let me take that away from you before you cut yourself? Always judge a book by it's cover. |
05-10-2006, 11:21 AM | #3129 | |
Beloved Shadow
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Come on, those of you who have voted to see roles revealed- change your vote! Let's make this game more interesting. Surely there are some of you who enjoy a bit of mental acrobatics. Not revealing who is who could give the Wizards, Gifteds, and Wolves chances to either speak truth to the village or fool it. It would generate discussion. It would force people to form multiple theories. If those things sound attractive, you need to vote "IN FAVOR".
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the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important. |
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05-10-2006, 11:30 AM | #3130 | |||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Given the amount of space it has taken up (to which I am now contributing), and the difficulty I just had in finding the latest version of the rules (despite lmp’s helpful update posts), it might (with the benefit of hindsight) have been worth creating an admin thread specifically for this game.
A few thoughts. First, I think that everyone should steer clear of criticising the playing styles of others. Everyone has a different style of play, whether adopted for tactical purposes, because of general inclination or as a result of RL events. Provided it stays within the game rules, then people are free to adopt whatever style they wish. That does not mean that particular styles may not be used tactically (either by or against the person in question), but please can everyone avoid direct criticism of other players. By way of example: “I think that X should be lynched because he hardly says anything and is not contributing towards finding a Wolf.” … is fine, whereas … “X hardly says anything and is spoiling the game.” … is not. Secondly, the thorny issue of OOC comments. It has become rather common for people to mention previous games and their fellow players’ exploits therein. I have never been entirely comfortable with that, as it somewhat detracts from the role-play aspect. Nevertheless, it is inevitable (and understandable) that people will use their previous experiences of games and other players in their decision-making and it is only fair that they be allowed to explain those decisions, rather than looking like they are simply making random decisions. Any rule against direct references to previous games is, in any event, easily circumvented by prefacing statement with things like: “I have heard tell that in other villages …” or “Knowing X as I do …” or "In a past life ..." etc. It’s up to lmp whether he wants to ban references to previous games, but I would not be in favour. As far as Nogrod’s reference to Kath and I using “ungentlemanly tactics” in the previous game is concerned, well I am afraid that I take the view, in a game based on bluff and deceit like Werewolf, that anything which is not specifically prohibited by the rules is a legitimate tactic. It is, I think, as well to be clear on that point up front. Quote:
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Two further questions. I assume that the GW gets to scry a villager on Night 1. Is that right? This may have been addressed previously, but I’ll be darned if I can find it. Do Gifteds/Werewolves get to carry out their Night-time activities on the same night that they are scried/Werewolfed, or must they wait until the next Night? Finally, I know from experience just how emotionally, as well as intellectually, absorbing Werewolf games can become. But, in light of events in recent games, please can everyone bear in mind that it’s just a game. Edit: Quote:
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! Last edited by The Saucepan Man; 05-10-2006 at 11:34 AM. |
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05-10-2006, 12:38 PM | #3131 | |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,646
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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05-10-2006, 12:40 PM | #3132 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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The GW basically lives to die (hopefully after getting a full stock of gifteds) while the EW lives to spawn werewolves.
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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05-10-2006, 12:48 PM | #3133 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 31
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My, that's a rather sharp piece of wit you've got there. Why don't you let me take that away from you before you cut yourself? Always judge a book by it's cover. |
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05-10-2006, 12:49 PM | #3134 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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There is the possibility the EW good use the knowledge of who the GW is to his or her advantage- say the EW waits until there are plently of wolves, sees that there are few or no gifted, and then chooses to kill the GW, essentially leaving the village in a horrible spot. There are advantages to secrecy on both sides.
Edit: Cross-posted with Loki. Yes, the GW scries one villager on Night 1, then gets to choose which gift to bestow upon said villager. Or the GW could choose not to bestow said gift, not that he/she would choose that, but it's a possible choice.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 05-10-2006 at 12:52 PM. |
05-10-2006, 12:59 PM | #3135 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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05-10-2006, 01:08 PM | #3136 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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I'm just pointing out one reason why the GW wouldn't want to reveal themself right off the bat. Of course, this all better as in game speculation. I think it should be up to the GW as to whether or not they are revealed to the gifted.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen |
05-10-2006, 01:13 PM | #3137 | |
Drummer in the Deep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,138
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Then what have we the Herald of Benevolence for? Let the GW decide wether to reveal themselves or not.
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before
I listen for returning feet and voices at the door |
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05-10-2006, 01:21 PM | #3138 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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05-10-2006, 01:26 PM | #3139 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 31
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"Oh, well, he's the Good Wizard." Then how does that explain the presence of this evil? An Evil Wizard could have been tampering with his magic. Seriously, that's ludicris. That's assuming that the GW knows all about the werewolves and is preparing for it, or just randomly bestows gifts of hunter or ranger or seer upon his people, and that's infeasible. Else, everyone would have some kind of power to combat this threat. The only explanation is that no one saw it coming, and thus the GW would not be spying on his own people unless he was some kind of pervert. Didn't anyone get the The Saucepan Man joke? *grumble* *grumble* I say let the damn players do what they want. If they want to PM each other, fine. if they want to "reveal" their roles to each other, fine. If the GW/EW want to reveal the roles of the wolves or gifted to them, fine. It's their decision, it's their way of playing the game. If they want to screw themselves over by playing badly, it's, quite honestly, their own fault. If we have to suffer for it, it sucks, but that's just called being "fair." What is up with all of this useless banter?
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My, that's a rather sharp piece of wit you've got there. Why don't you let me take that away from you before you cut yourself? Always judge a book by it's cover. |
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05-10-2006, 02:04 PM | #3140 |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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Do I detect a smidgeon of sarcasm, Ye Trickster?
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peace
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05-10-2006, 02:40 PM | #3141 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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And I got the Saucepanman joke. Quote:
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen |
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05-10-2006, 03:19 PM | #3142 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 31
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My, that's a rather sharp piece of wit you've got there. Why don't you let me take that away from you before you cut yourself? Always judge a book by it's cover. |
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05-10-2006, 04:37 PM | #3143 | ||||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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To which end, a further question (or two, strictly speaking). Do the usual Seer and Ranger rules apply, whereby the Seer can dream of a particular villager only once and the Ranger cannot guard the same person two nights running? If so, then later Seers and Rangers are presumably not bound by the choices made by their predecessors.
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! Last edited by The Saucepan Man; 05-10-2006 at 04:40 PM. |
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05-10-2006, 04:40 PM | #3144 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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Second, lmp can solve your objection quite easily. He hasn't started the story yet. Why are you getting worked up about a supposed plot-hole now when the plot has not yet been written? lmp has a quality brain and can no doubt think of a dozen ways to explain the GW's Night 1 activities without even putting his thinking cap on.
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the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important. |
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05-10-2006, 04:42 PM | #3145 | |
Everlasting Whiteness
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“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” |
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05-10-2006, 05:04 PM | #3146 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 31
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First of all, the phantom, all the credit to him, but I believe you're giving LMP a little too much credit. I have no doubts of his rationalization of improbable events, but an explanation of such would be tenuous at best.
Regardless, these points had already been expressed to me, and I conceeded to them. No need in beating a dead horse. I understand that it's just a game. It was simply that I had gathered the impression that more role-playing was required. EDIT: After being spoken to by... a friend, I realized that I may have been a bit insulting to LMP. *nod* My apologies, I had meant no disrespect to you, and if I've said anything to belittle your RPing skill, please, take it as "I haven't seen you RP, so I make no assumptions of the quality of your writing. I only know that I declared an obscure and nearly impossible task, and recognised that few people would live up to it. Even if it were accomplished, it would not hold up well, being a true stretch of the imagination. I would not assume that any old RPer I met on some forums would possess such skill." If you can see where I'm coming from on this.
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My, that's a rather sharp piece of wit you've got there. Why don't you let me take that away from you before you cut yourself? Always judge a book by it's cover. Last edited by Loki; 05-10-2006 at 05:13 PM. |
05-10-2006, 05:17 PM | #3147 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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My primary point- the fact that no plot-hole exists because lmp has not yet provided the set-up- was a point that had not been made, and a point which you seem to not be conceeding, so I'm not exactly sure what multiple-already-conceeded-points I am beating like "a dead horse".
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the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important. |
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05-10-2006, 05:31 PM | #3148 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 31
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the phantom, there is no need to get touchy over this. My deepest apologies for attempting to help improve upon the game by pointing out plausible failures in matching story to game mechanics. I'll remember to keep any help that I may have to myself in the future.
In my defense, now, I was neither worked up, nor did I say that there was a hole in LMP's story. I said that I felt that it was silly to have the GW be able to scry on the first night, when he would likely not have known about an attack beforehand. I would have called your "primary" point a fallacy within logic, considering that it was so far beyond the point (Obviously, LMP has not yet set up the storyline; I was providing a noted fallacy beforehand considering details that were already provided. More than enough data has been presented to assume that: a. Werewolves attack. b. The Good Wizard does nothing to try to stop this (i.e.- warn the townsfolk). c. The Good Wizard PROBABLY didn't know about it, and therefore would not waste energy spying on the good populace for no damn reason. Then again, I originally did not consider your "point" worth mentioning, and simply ignored it. However, if you would like to get into a fully-blown argument about this, I'm more than prepared to grind you into the dust. I simply request that it be done elsewhere. If you're ready to take a beating, I suggest that you PM me and we do not clutter the board with useless arguments.
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My, that's a rather sharp piece of wit you've got there. Why don't you let me take that away from you before you cut yourself? Always judge a book by it's cover. |
05-10-2006, 05:50 PM | #3149 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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(You do remember that in order for one Wizard to die, the other one has to go too...)
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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05-10-2006, 05:51 PM | #3151 | |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,646
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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05-10-2006, 05:53 PM | #3152 |
Riveting Ribbiter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Assigned to Mordor
Posts: 1,767
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++ Allowing the Good Wizard to remain hidden from his/her/its gift recipients.
It seems somewhat unfair for a gifted turned wolf to automatically have the ability to reveal the GW's identity to new colleagues when the EW does not face the same risk if a wolf turns gifted.
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People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff. |
05-10-2006, 05:53 PM | #3153 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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Now children....
The point was made, countered, remade, and recountered. Let's drop it now before this gets ugly. We don't need a repeat of past events. Everything is up to the great MOD-GOD, LMP, anyways. No need to argue. And don't either of you bother to respond to this. I much prefer it was just dropped.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen |
05-10-2006, 06:05 PM | #3154 | ||||||||
Beloved Shadow
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1) It's a game 2) Almost anything can be rationalized within a story when there is absolutely no restrictive frame work. And that is certainly the case here. The writer, lmp, has complete liberty to make anything any way he wants, and can set up any premise. If you have a problem with the reasoning behind the Night 1 scry, you ask lmp about it, suggest a premise, or just wait for the darn game to start- you don't start posting about how the rule doesn't, or can't, make any sense. (and you certainly don't state that you feel the game moderator is not talented enough to set up a story) Quote:
I'm done. All that needs to be said has been said.
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the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important. Last edited by the phantom; 05-10-2006 at 06:09 PM. |
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05-10-2006, 06:23 PM | #3155 | |
Drummer in the Deep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,138
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before
I listen for returning feet and voices at the door |
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05-10-2006, 06:24 PM | #3156 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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phantom, that is wholly unecessary and a clear attempt to antagonize a new member just so you can have the last word. Frankly, you're above that sort of behavior. You have taken his posts out of contest, twisted them into something else, and you were highly insulting whole doing it. If anyone is acting like a child, it's you. Now, I asked you via PM, and I'm asking you here, please delete your previous post, as it is wholly unecessary. When you do, I'll delete this one.
EDIT: Cross posted with Oddwen- Loki has already said that he didn't realize this wasn't an actual RP. Please leave it alone now.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen |
05-10-2006, 06:35 PM | #3157 |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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Come off it... Unless Loki him/herself takes offense and asks the phantom to lay off, I see no reason why their mutual antagonism can't be viewed as entertaining on both sides.
Look: Haha, a newbie is giving the phantom a hard time. That's hilarious. Haha, the phantom is teasing the newbie. How droll. If anybody is worried that only certain players are being teased, allow me to rectify that: Y'all are a bunch of morons. Any chance you have of winning this game will be based purely on luck. The end. Remember, everybody: this is a GAME.
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peace
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05-10-2006, 06:35 PM | #3158 | |
Riveting Ribbiter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Assigned to Mordor
Posts: 1,767
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I'm sure LMP can answer any questions, comments or concerns. No need for anyone to get into unpleasantries on any side of this issue (my own being that I fully believe in his writing abilities). Would anyone care for some hot chocolate? Tea? Cake? Anything to change the subject?
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People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff. |
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05-10-2006, 06:42 PM | #3160 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it.
Posts: 1,696
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I'm all for mutal teasing Fea- it's makes the game funny as well as fun- however, somethings are crossing the line. That just brings down everyone else as well as causing rifts in the Downs community.
I also think that if Loki doesn't respond, he is showing a great deal of maturity. Quote:
And yes, Celuien, I'd love some cake.
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We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing... -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 05-10-2006 at 06:50 PM. |
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