TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Add this to the list of things that makes me raise my eyebrows on Zil so high that I'm probably brushing the ceiling. Complete, unquestioned, immediate trust to such a *weird* person (sorry, Eönwë, meaning the style, of course)
with such a *weird* (= one which has some strange gap in it, the not naming the ordo thing???) revelation?

If he's lying, we'll have a Spy toMorrow at the least. Why not try it? It's better than a stab in the proverbial dark.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Once again: Why not to name the ordo??????????

Because, if he does so toNight, the spies will just kill the ordo. If he waits, and gets a Ranger protect toNight, he can give us at the worst two innocents toMorrow, and a larger problem for the baddies.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Eönwë: why didn't you vote for me if you claim you're the seer and "know" I'm a "northern spy"...

I know why.

Well, he did say he was coming back before DL.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

No, he ought to wait until toMorrow and leave the Spies guessing. And the fact that you are pushing otherwise makes me suspect you all the more.

Excuse me, but I've played in like twenty to forty or maybe even more WW games and as far as I recall, upon revealing, the Seer most often revealed ALL his dreams.

And really, your behavior is totally driving me mad. It's not even that I would not consider your opinions as possible - it's ok that somebody trusts Steve, that happens with both real and fake revelations, and it's not like I am 100% convinced he is lying either, it just seems more probable given all that's happened - but you seem to have just a set pattern of behavior which is always... completely against all logic. Come on, I know you are an experienced player, so what is this? Voting immediately as soon as you see it. Not even a moment of pause to think.

Bah. This is ridiculous. You are the Cobbler, whatever goes. Are you an Acolyte who could pick your role from the choice of Seer and Cobbler or whatever? It really seems that way, honestly.

Going to sleep... I'll be back to vote before DL. The question I put before myself is this - whether it is ok to lynch Steve (if it seems he really is faking this), or whether to keep him around for the Night and try to see if the WWs attack him - simply: whether to risk the possibility that he is the real Seer after all. But how are we going to know otherwise than lynching Nogrod? He might start listing "dreamt" ordos or whatnot, eventually he'd be exposed, but after how long? Also, the WWs might want to kill the real Seer during the Night, which is not such a good idea.

Too much now. Really going to sleep. Think, people, is all I can advise now...

EDIT: x-ed again since my last

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, he did say he was coming back before DL.

Exactly that. When he can see whether his bluff worked or if he needs to try to save himself.

Remember there are four wolves and they can use their numbers unlike we can... so even if this backfires they still have a chance if enough of us stray and they can blend in.

And if you lynch me, then I require you others find out if Zil (the happy first voter) is actually the Acolyte and what does he think killing us...

[Inziladun]

Have it your own way, Legate. Can you actually give a valid reason not to believe Eönwë, at least for now? Yes, it's possible he could be a bluffing Spy. Is it likely? No. He'd have no chance of surviving toMorrow. Why would the Spies make a sacrifice like that if they don't have to?
It makes sense that, having dreamt and then accused Nog, he might now be fearful of being lynched. People have talked about voting for him. Or, if he survives the Day, killed at Night (assuming Nog is indeed evil). So for me this has a ring of truth. If I'm being fooled, it's repworthy, and I'll take my hat off to Steve.

x/d with [B]Nog/B]

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Exactly that. When he can see whether his bluff worked or if he needs to try to save himself.

Remember there are four wolves and they can use their numbers unlike we can... so even if this backfires they still have a chance if enough of us stray and they can blend in.

And if you lynch me, then I require you others find out if Zil (the happy first voter) is actually the Acolyte and what does he think killing us...

We don't even know the Acolyte is evil, do we? If you think I am he, why does that automatically make me worthy of lynching?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

We don't even know the Acolyte is evil, do we? If you think I am he, why does that automatically make me worthy of lynching?

You killed Eruhen. How about that for starters?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

When I say I am going to sleep...

...I instead go and check Steve's posts. Okay, reevaluating.

I went through Eönwë's posts of toDay plus his list from the Day before, and it is true he in fact does start speaking about Nog straightaway from the beginning of toDay (where he is merely uncertain the Day before). It would also make sense to dream of Nog if he was unsure of him, it's a good pick: a vocal player, with good record, etc etc, a good pick in general.

Eönwë was going after Nog toDay from the start and very strongly, and we've been all wondering (or at least I was, and some others too, I believe) about why he was using such a strong, confident language. As if he knew. Well, indeed - maybe he knew.

So in fact, after seeing all this, I am for giving Eönwë a shot. I mean, not a shot in the head, but not lynching him, at least. Even protecting him, I suggest to the Ranger.

We should not have that much to lose, after all. The only question is then whether to trust and try (i.e. lynch Nog) or do something else.

But I can sleep on that first.

(Where that case puts Zil is a different thing, but I am not going to rack my brain anymore. This time I am REALLY going to sleep.)

EDIT: x-ed since my last.

Good night.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You killed Eruhen. How about that for starters?

Isn't that a bit strong words?

GOING. TO. SLEEP.

[Inziladun]

It's notable how strongly Nog and Legate are reacting due to one person (italics for Lommy ) voting for Nog.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Have it your own way, Legate. Can you actually give a valid reason not to believe Eönwë, at least for now? Yes, it's possible he could be a bluffing Spy. Is it likely? No. He'd have no chance of surviving toMorrow. Why would the Spies make a sacrifice like that if they don't have to?

He doesn't need to survive toMorrow as they have the advantage in numbers... look back at my tally.

If you lynch me toDay (and Night-kills happen), it is 10 people toMorrow. With the aid of the Acolyte (looking at the way you post Zil I'm pretty sure you are it, and you align yourself to evil, that looks like granted now, if not earlier) that means 5-5.

So even if there is a double lynch toMorrow (the goodie candidate vs. the baddie candidate - which requires all the goodies to hold together!) it will end up with 5-5 votes. And then the baddies devour the rest as the number of them is equal.

Or even if the Acolyte is not counted there and then, it's easy to see how they will force the win with ease the next Night - fex. by openly revealing themselves to each other during the Day so as not to make mistakes.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

We should not have that much to lose, after all. The only question is then whether to trust and try (i.e. lynch Nog) or do something else.

But I can sleep on that first.

I hope you read my latest post or count the scenarios yourself before voting... We have all to lose. Everything, if this bluff goes through.

Goddammit, it's too late (5PM)... A vacation and evil forces trying to make it their win in a ww-game are just a combination I find it hard to sleep on.

Originally Posted by Legate

Isn't that a bit strong words?

I don't see Zil denying it.

[Inziladun]

You're taking an awful lot for granted, Nog.

1. That I'm the Acolyte.
2. That the Acolyte is evil, or will choose to become so.

You have no proof of either of those things.

How do you know the score on the Acolyte? We have hints in the narration, but nothing further. Your reaction to Eönwë's reveal is telling.

If you're killed and not evil, then the village gets Eönwë, a Spy. Then they can kill me, if they wish.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Boro - of course it's not remotely like a seer lynch, and the outcome of lynching Bom wasn't any worse than any D1 where we don't catch a wolf. But after Lommy, Legate and Nog had gone to some length exhorting us all to make meaningful and accountable votes, I find it, shall we say ironic or hypocritical?, that all three of them ended up making a vote of which Legate said himself that it wouldn't tell us anything. (I'm willing to excuse Lommy, as she was under threat of lynch herself and voting to save herself, but Legate and Nog not so much.)

That explanation looks fine to me. I didn't like the scolding/shame on all of you tone, but I see your point on the hypocrisy of voting Bom based on the no random-votes business.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Boro - likewise. There is still some of his "smoothness" in him, for example like this:

That sounds sort of, how to say it, well, still too "polished" for Boro. More in the "excuse me, gentlemen, my humblest opinion is that your coat might have a bit of stain on it" style instead of "you filthy brat of Morgoth, look how messy you are!"

I'm so not following the distinctions you're making "nicer"-me and "abrasive"-me. I could see it yesterday, because I was too lazy to argue with anyone. I mean, I like being blunt and not afraid to call bull-pucky on anyone, but I'd also like to hope I'm not that much of a pompous douche. If I am, seriously guys, just backhand me or stuff a dirty sock down my throat. It's nothing you need to explain now, I'm just baffled where this idea I'm Mr. Grumpypants is coming from.

The above quote from Legate, was a reaction to me saying:

Wait a second, isn't making stronger suspicions/accusations a good thing? If nothing else it will hopefully get Nog to answer some things about his vote and late-posting yesterday. I've had the impression Nog's playing carefully so far (not sure if I'd call it sneaky, but sneaky/careful are virtually the same in meaning).

Not seeing what's "polished" about this...my explanation I'd call Nog playing "carefully", but not "sneaky"? I had noted Nog's play yesterday was careful, but I can see reasons an innocent Nog would play carefully. Eonwe used sneaky, and to me they mean essentially the same thing. But sneaky carries more negative baggage, and I was agreeing by using sneaky Eonwe was laying on serious suspicion.

Or do you mean polished in my reaction to you and Greenie going after Eonwe for his rather sudden and serious Nogrod suspicion? How harsh do I really have to be there? I'm not going to shout "what in the Morgoth are you two doing!!?" I was trying to get everyone, before taking sides to just let it play out. That is, Eonwe had made a strongly-worded case against Nog, I saw reasoning behind some of his points, and wanted to see how Nog responded. If and when he responded, I then wanted to see what Eonwe would do. Really, do I have to be anal just to say "Wait a second, let's see how this plays out."

From what I've seen out of it, blah...I'm even more conflicted about Nogrod now. There are the parts where he's defending himself and the reasoning/explanation is sound, and I can get genuine frustration at having to repeat his explanation. Like here, when he's actually defending himself, it's good:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Yes, I was mad at Bom's self-vote, especially after all the rant there had been about the signifigance of making a reasoned vote.

Yes, I entertained the idea and was unsure about what to do; whether to stick with the principle (those who do not play should be lynched so that people would know it happens and thus would not do it, or stayed out of games they have no intention to play) or whether there was chances to hit a wolf.

Yes, I did more or less talk myself out of it even if I wasn't sure on how strong grounds the suspicions I had on some people were.

Yes, after Shasta started pressing with it - and it kind of opened out as a real possibility when some others also voiced their possible interest in doing it - I started rethinking it as a real option. I mean it's stupid to vote for a non-player if you're the only one to do that.

But then you forget what I aready told earlier - and you can check it if you wish.

I wished to have a discussion as to whom to vote, in the end there, like 15 minutes before the DL, got a phone-call from my colleague, and when it was done, like 10 minutes to the DL, people had already started voting for Bom and there was no reasonable scenario left but to join (no ties and thus double lynches). Picking up enough votes to lynch someone else at that moment was basically impossible.

I'm sensing the honesty in his explanation about his vote yesterday, as well as the frustration from having to repeat it several times today. But the parts where he's not defending his actions, are shouting out wolf...they look bad. Post 199 looks real bad:

G55 starts the Day with a full-frontal attack on me, which attack I find manufactured to say it nicely.

Eönwë enters the scene later with a full-frontal attack on me, which attack I have hard times calling even manufactured.

Now a bit more impatient soul might think you guys have decided last Night to go after me toDay and get me lynched, maybe making a deal on the issues each one would write as their own "cases" during the Night.

So, Eonwe and G55 start out with cases against you, really the "impatient soul" paragraph is unecessary. I mean you must be calling yourself an "impatient soul," because you yourself are considering some convoluted wolf-night-scheme to come after you today. Oh right, only an impatient soul would consider that option...that very option that you just threw out as an option, but you of course don't think is a viable scenario. Then next paragraph, somehow is just a further explanation of how it's just oh so tempting to believe both Eonwe and G55 night-plotted against you:

But there are four wolves and I must say I'm totally confused if your mates wouldn't then have told you two to act a bit more wisely as that looks just terrible. So I'm tempted to look at these two as two separate bursts coming from their own motivations, even if I must say the temptation to look them as a wolf-duo trying their best (which isn't a lot, sorry) is compelling.

So this very scenario of a wolf-duo between G55 and Eonwe, which you seem to be saying is unlikely (?) you just spent two paragraphs saying "I don't think this is likely, only an impatient soul would think that's the case, but it's such a tempting option...yes...oh it's tempting to believe...I'm trying to resist believing it...but it's tempting." Now tell me that does NOT look like an "I don't care if either of these two are lynched as long as it's not me?" post.

I can see G55 making the attack half as a self-defence, but it is still quite over the top (and could be either). Steve I have harder time of figuring out why, unless it was decided already earlier that should be done. I mean unless that was not pre-planned, then I must have hit a point somewhere and hit it too well.

Oh right the concluding paragraph again, bringing up that oh so tempting "G55-Eonwe wolf-duo pre-planned go after Nogrod"

Then in the next defensive post (212) where he gave the explanation to his actions. In response to me, there are parts that follow this pattern of looking out right "let me throw out junk accusations to see if any of them will stick:

But then you Boro seem to fall into the fallacy of hindsight or that of wolvery (both meaning "knowing things"). You can choose which one...

Choose which one? I suppose by that if I choose the G55 and Eonwe in a "full-frontal assault" against Nog than you'll be giving me the same treatment as them? Some elaborate, must be a pre-planned wolf plot scheme, that you don't want to believe is a reasonable option, but you'll argue that it is reasonable and tempting?

I mean you who complain about Bom's lynch seem to forget that he could have been a wolf. Or you knew already he wasn't and then as wolves rant on us others who didn't know from supposed "moral-highground". *coughPitchieCough*

This is perhaps the worst of them all. At that point in the post, I thought to myself "wow, you're going to throw the kitchen sink too, Nog?"

Oh my. I'm not sure if this is enough for me to want to cast a vote for Nog, because his defense behind his actions yesterday look good. And I do recall an innocent Nog being just as "paranoid/everyone is conspiring against me," but really these half-hearted accusations against anyone saying something against him looks bad. It just looks like "I'm going to sling every kind of mud I have up my sleeve at anyone stating suspicion against me and see which mud sticks."

Edit: crossed with everyone since Pom's vote for Legate...woah...looks like something major happened.

Edit 2: and seer revelation...that would explain it.

[Galadriel55]

OK, my next bit of posts...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I realize I think quite differently than most, and, as I said, I know Bom has done some frustrating things, but is voting for one's self on Day 1 really something a wolf would be likely to do? I can see some legitimately feeling like there was no better option, and voting for him, but there's got to be baddies on that wagon.

Most certainly there's at least one there - probably more.


Legate @ 194: I think you're critisizing Eonwe too harshly. I really don't see why you think his Nogalysis looks so bad. I didn't find it particularly evil-looking or suspicious. It was alright.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Galadriel55 - my top suspect at the moment. It's not only her weird jump on me yesterDay or on Nog toDay, but mostly two details which scream wolf (which you all should know if you've read my posts but let me repeat). 1. When she looks back, she refers to whether she said she suspected someone, not whether she suspected them in her head. I can see no reason an innocent would play with this mindset. 2. She was confident enough that she'd be alive toDay that she spent a considerable amount of time last Night writing a post. A rhetorical question: who again are they who generally don't die during the Night?

1. In a game of WW, thoughts that are left unspoken are of very little value. You can't prove thoughts. You can only prove words. Thinking about something can get you to something, but not the game as a whole. Speaking aloud does.

2. As I said before (though still after this post) - I do not have time today to look for so many quotes, so it was a risk it or hold your peace situation, and I'm not gonna hold my peace if I think something looks suspicious. Moreover, with all the suspicion comming my way yesterDay after I went to bed, it would be a waste of scapegoat/wagon/whateveryouwannacallit for the wolves to kill me at Night. They usually go for those who are generally considered innocent and would not be lynched, unless they are aiming at a person for a reason greater than to make a kill that won't endanger them (eg: suspected of Seering).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

No. I was not proposing to lynch Bom because he is Bom. That would be stupid. I was suggesting it because of how he played, especially the self-vote.

Errr... that is lynching Bom because he's Bom - you can put all the words that describe him - crazy, random, etc - into one: Bom. That's just him. If you're lynching him for his playing style, you're lynching him for being him.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But then you Boro seem to fall into the fallacy of hindsight or that of wolvery (both meaning "knowing things"). You can choose which one...

You lost me somewhere here.... how so?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And well, you only have my word for it, but I didn't change my mind on you because that idea got support. But think of this: if my modus operandi (my working rule) would have been trying to get you lynched in principle, or going with the flow and suspecting only those who others suspect, surely I wouldn't have defended you in the first place?

When you defended me it was Boro against the general mood that was "she's probably innocent" - one against a few.

But... I'll take your word for now, and "moving" you from red to orange categories.

Originally Posted by Nog

So you confess?

Yes, I confess of my innocence.

Originally Posted by Nog

Okay. A bad joke, and it's probably a misunderstanding there. I tried to say that if you were a wolf, your packmates would have told you not to do something as over the board as your rant you posted early into the Day, because it would only make you look more suspicious. But as you did post it... well maybe you don't have packmates to guide you?

OK, because to me it sounded more like an overconfident statement saying that I do have mates who for some reason didn't instruct me properly. It's clear now.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Excuse me, but I've played in like twenty to forty or maybe even more WW games and as far as I recall, upon revealing, the Seer most often revealed ALL his dreams.

But...but in this case, that would be stupid. Sorry, but it would. Assuming Steve gives us the name of Nogwolf toDay, the Ranger protects him toNight. Then he gives us the names of his other two dreams toMorrow. Assuming Steve tells all toDay, the Ranger has to choose which to protect, Steve or the ordo, and may get it wrong and cost us a known innocent a Night early.

Also, I trust the reveal enough to go ahead with a Nog-lynch, so:

++Nog

[Nogrod]

I'll make it once more so that you see where we are... (and then I need to go to sleep vacation or not)

We are 13 people now.

13

4 wolves
1 acolyte (who kills at Night, seemingly allied to the baddies, killed Eruhen)
8 innocents (including a ranger and a seer)

If you lynch me and the wolves kill someone, and the Acolyte continues the bloody path correctly to his evil aims, the tally toMorrow will be:

10 people on Day3

10

4 wolves
1 Acolyte (Zil)
5 innocents

If the baddies then reveal themselves to each other, it's game over as they can organize a 5-5 vote leading it as 4-4 into the Night and game over - or if evenone innocetn votes wrong they will jump on it and end it already toMorrow.


~*~

And even if a minor detail goes wrong they can afford it.

And on the other thought, it is possible that after G55's, Boro's and Eönwë's pre-decided effort seemed to fail (I have not seen the guys to answer my question about their accusations), Eönwë felt too much pressure (for a good reason as I think most everyone - other than the wolves - were thinking he was making himself more suspicious than me with his "case"), so he decided to go for a fake reveal without the counsel of the others...

But whichever way it is as to why Eönwë made his fake reveal, they have chances to win easily if you lynch me toDay.


And the real seer should really think about this closely.

We can't afford to lose an innocent in principle, but there sure are some chances (the Acolyte might not have a kill every Night, the ranger might save someone etc.). If we lynch Eönwë toDay, we're one wolf down, and you get one more dream (I'd suggest Boro or G55) while the ranger protects you. Then we'd have a second wolf, most likely. But you can of course come forwards and reveal the falsity of Eönwë - especially if you have other good news to bring.

But up to you. Certainly. If you think you're safe and my death will help us, go that way and win it for us.


EDIT: X'd with a lots... but it turned out just a few long ones.

[Inziladun]

I'm about to go to bed, and won't be back before DL, but just a quick note.

I already was suspicious of Legate, for a combination of his actions yesterDay and toDay. In addition, I think his and Nog's reactions to Eönwë are a clear indicator of guilt.

Come on. Can anyone give an innocent reason why a SeerSteve should reveal his dreamt ordo now? When he can easily survive the Night with a Ranger-protect?
Negative. That looks really bad on Legate.

Now Nog is fixated on me being the Acolyte. If I was, I doubt I could tell you. He's just trying to shift the focus from himself.

Choose well, Servants of the South.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Me

We can't afford to lose an innocent in principle, but there sure are some chances (the Acolyte might not have a kill every Night, the ranger might save someone etc.). If we lynch Eönwë toDay, we're one wolf down, and you get one more dream (I'd suggest Boro or G55) while the ranger protects you. Then we'd have a second wolf, most likely. But you can of course come forwards and reveal the falsity of Eönwë - especially if you have other good news to bring.

I see I'm getting too tired as my logic makes this kind of errors - arguing the same case as two alternatives...

So what I meant was, come forwards if you think it the best way of action (read my numbers closely) or stay hidden if you think that is the better route.

Eönwë's reveal is known to be false toMorrow anyway whether you guys lynch me or him. So after that there should be no problems on that issue.

Time might be scarce, though, if you pick it wrong.


++ Eönwë


Good Night and Good Luck (will be back, but see no reason to not make my vote now)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Now Nog is fixated on me being the Acolyte. If I was, I doubt I could tell you. He's just trying to shift the focus from himself.

Nope. I'm not trying to shift the focus.

I see the focus is too much on me and I need to try and save the village on my own with a talking company construed of wolves and an Acolyte who kills us.

But my first concern is getting the false seer revealed as what he is.

That doesn't mean I think you should be forgotten. Like you say, it looks like you are told not to reveal... but looking at the attitude and the way you skipped some questions to you it's fairly certain you're the Acolyte.

And you kill people.


If you guys lynch me, remember this. Zil kills people.

Now good night... back (hopefully) before the DL.

[Inziladun]

Last word:

For anyone who believes Eönwë is lying, I encourage you to vote for me over him.

That is all.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Last word:

For anyone who believes Eönwë is lying, I encourage you to vote for me over him.

That is all.

I saw that!

(I was just going to shut my computer down)

So you are the acolyte.

And your hands are tied. And you don't like it. I don't blame you for that.


But how this comes as no surprise...


Okay.

If it is your task to kill people, and you want to get rid of that, let's do it then (sadly I used my vote already).

After that it is just the goodies vs. the baddies with no random factor meddling with it, and the seer has an added chance. (Even if the worst scenario happens we lead by two toMorrow)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Nogrod is a wolf, a northern spy, a vile plotter, etc.

++NOG

I'm actually really surprised at myself for going after someone that's actually evil this time, because in past games my suspects were usually ordos and gifteds, regardless of my own role.

Am I making progress?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That said!!! Just occured to me. Steve, if you ARE real Seer, you SHOULD tell us the name of your Ordo. Because either you get night-killed or the ordo does, but the Ranger can protect you first Night, and the Ordo after that. So you SHOULD tell us.

But the wolves won't go for a target that's obviously protected - and the Ranger would be mad mad MAD not to protect the Seer. They will just move around the Ranger.

Originally Posted by Legate

And that by the way further fortifies my belief in Eönwë's fakeness. Really.

I am not convinced in any way that Nogrod is innocent, but I am rather convinced, now thinking about it more and more, that Eönwë is just fake. A rather not very well done Wolfy Seer-revelation-attempt, since he does not know whom he should reveal as ordo, because he does not know whether to name a packmate or not...

Hmm. It is of course still possible he is not lying. But I really don't like it.

Also it is interesting for him to suddenly have me on top of his suspect list right after I got a vote, while I don't believe he had suspected me so much before.

This looks rather sinister. So you say that "no, Steve lies, you shouldn't believe him!", but in the same post you back up and say that just maybe he's right... cause what if he is, and then you'll be suspected of trying to save your packmate. Sure, you justify it - veeery feebly. This by itself would give me reason to believe Eonwe's right is suspecting you.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You killed Eruhen. How about that for starters?

And you know that how? (By "that" I mean that it was Zil)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I don't see Zil denying it.

If everyone denied every accusation thrown at them the only thing we'd hear is "you're wrong, I'm innocent!"



Nog's last post: And HOW DO YOU KNOW? If Inzil would rather him!ordo be lynched than Eonwe!Seer, well, that's a noble sacrifice. But since you've painted Eonwe evil, you'd have to paint Inzil evil too. It just doesn't make sense. No. Your whole scenario, that is. I have no regrets or second thoughts about voting you.

[Galadriel55]

Guys, I know I haven't said a great deal toDay... but please be forgiving. It's tomorrow here already, and I have school tomo...today, and you post faster than I can read. The most I can add to the Day's discussion is a brief list.

Lottie, Shasta, Sally: Undecided.

Nog is a wolf.

Legate is mighty suspicious. See my post above.

Greenie sounds genuine.

Lommy and Pitchie are questionmarks, juuuuuust leaning to the innocent side.

Boro is dangerous, in the sense that while he sounds OK I've seen him pull off the craziest wolf victory with lots of trust (though paranioa towards the end ) and the biggest wolf-on-wolf I've seen in my time. And that game I thought he was squeaky clean, until I found out otherwise. No, he's just too dangerous to trust. While I'm not actually suspecting him, I'm wary of him... makes sense?

Pom is probably the best-sounding at the moment.

Zil sounds innocent, still.

Steve is Seer.





Get that wolf, village! ^^

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Dun

It's likely I'll be voting long before DL as a rule here. It falls into my exercise time.

Yeah, sure, your “beat pillow with fist” exercise time.

Okay, to business (though we all know I must get my one-liners in).

Originally Posted by Legate, re: acolyte

Cooperation, yes, that's another possibility. Does not sound bad. Could be also that the Acolyte could be getting some "partial info" from the Seer or whatnot... and based on that could also choose sides... (For example: Night 1: Seer dreams of Freddy and sees him innocent, the Acolyte gets info "Seer dreamed of Freddy" or "Seer dreamed of innocent"... okay, that sounds stretched, I'm making up stuff from the top of my head, but you know, something... random...)

Quite possible, I’d say. Were I to compare it to another role, I would liken it to the dream catcher I had for my first game. Given last Night’s events, however, it is unlikely that’s the case.

Originally Posted by Steve

On the other hand, the 'cursed' idea could also work, where if there's an attempt to Night-kill or dream the acolyte, they become that role. Or even if they're the target of the other gifteds.

The idea could also work? This phrasing strikes me as odd. This was one of the things he said that bothered me yesterDay, but when I got home and tried to find it again, I couldn’t. :/

Originally Posted by Dun

What we can do is focus on finding the ones we know can kill us. The rest will just have to work itself out.

THANK YOU.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I could not have done the foul deed. If I was the murderer, that would have meant that I foresaw my role in choosing the occupation, which would imply that I'm a Seer. I can't be both spy/wolf and seer at the same time!

Just making a note of this for now, in case it becomes relevant later. (Acolyte, etc.)

Originally Posted by Pitch

On the other hand, there's clearly a possibility that the Acolyte may turn, or be turned, to the dark side and use their powers, whichever they may be, against us - which is why I don't quite get Lommy's doubts whether "it's wise to discuss the details". I mean, why shouldn't we discuss what we may be up against? OK, it's all speculation at this point, but what's the harm in speculation? It's not like anybody is going to say "I think Finnegan's the Envoy and Freddy is the Acolyte".

Actually, I’d say that’s a distinct possibility. “I can’t figure out why X is acting this way. Oh! X is probably the acolyte, and they’re doing Y because their role entails Z.” You can see where wolves can easily benefit from this sort of discussion, right? (In the post following this one, Galadriel expresses a similar sentiment.)

Originally Posted by Rikae

It seems to me that with the relatively high number of wolves in this village, the acolyte is more likely helpful than harmful.

I certainly would hope so.

Originally Posted by Steve

Ok, what I don't like is how Inzil managed to change the discussion about the Acolyte into meta-discussion. While the former discussion lets people think about the game ahead and shows people's attitudes now, as well as maybe being interesting to look at in future, this discussion about whether we should discuss it is bad because it's giving everyone a place to hide. Legate replied first, but now everyone's repeating the same thing (which I thought had been general consensus for ages anyway- it was when I last played) about any discussion being better than no discussion.

I'm not saying that Inzil or Legate are bad, but people are too keen to bandwaggon onto that discussion and say nothing of value, while looking active and helpful.

I’m not saying he’s bad, but he’s bad. Wait, what?

Originally Posted by Pitch

Yes you can - if you're a turned acolyte. Maybe.

Also filing this one away for later. Interesting that he responded to this.

Originally Posted by Pitch

The birthday dreamer I remember just got a dream on a predetermined Night, without any role change involved (right, Lottie?). Otherwise, this is basically the same as Boro's mythomaniac, which looks like a coherent theory to me.

Serious question. Why did you specifically ask Lottie? It seems I’ve forgotten something.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

This post has made me very angry. Yes, angry. This way of saying it infuriates me. You could have just said "G55 didn't post anything on content", which would be more or less true. But the way you're saying it is more like "oh look Lottie, you are against people who talk banter and here's G55 posting along whom you haven't analyzed yet. Wanna say that particularily she is useless?"

Yes, I'm saying this despite the risk of flying up on people's suspicion lists. This is what I think of you, and I'm not afraid to say it. Let's all decide that G55 is not posting anything useless, but let that come from someone else's mouth, eh? If you suspect me, say so. If you don't like the way I post, say so. If I'm on the top of your lynch list, say so. Don't ask Lottie to say it for you, or talk to her as though it's a private conversation between you and her!


*deep breath*

/rant.

Well hello.


HERE ENDETH PAGE ONE. GOOD LORD.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm well aware of the risk of lynching an innocent who happens to look "odd" on day one. In fact, I'd suggest it may be more logical to leave Inzil alone for toDay precisely because he has made himself a target.

Is this the post that was pointed out later in the thread? If not, hello, hunter hint. How does the hunter’s pick change thing work? I need to check out the rules.

Originally Posted by Legate

Rikae - looks straightforward, I can follow her line of thoughts, no problem, does not seem to be manipulative in any way etc.

“Does not seem to be manipulative in any way” seems like an odd turn of phrase. I realize that Rikae’s always a bit....well, nuts, but “in any way” seems, to me, to suggest possible other knowledge. Of course Rikae’s not evil, so that actually would speak in his favor, except....wouldn’t a wolf want to align himself with an ordo, find an ally besides his mates?

Originally Posted by Boro, re: Galadriel

Your reaction though, it was unexpected seeing from you, because it was like reading one of my rants. "If you suspect me then suspect me!" And really over something that's normal, "Hey Rikae, what do you think about sally?" I can understand boiling over frustrations, but that was an immediate, highly-dramatic reaction.

Concurrence, we have it.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Zil's last post makes him look more innocent than not. He's making sense.

Plus, if he's a wolf, I'd imagine he would have let the Alcolyte speculation run its course instead of jumping into the spotlight himself.

How do you know what he would do as a wolf? Hmmmm....

Originally Posted by Lommie

The thing that caught my attention this far the most was the odd case of Lottie and Zil going against Pitch for saying "in case we manage to lynch our seer early". I mean, come on, that was clearly sarcastic phrasing! I'm not sure which is worse, Lottie pointing it out as a suspicious passage, orZil implying it's a good point. (Unless Zil was sarcastic too? or referring to something else? I'm talking about #26)

A valid point, as I also recognized the sarcasm, but, my dear, we both know how often wolves hide behind sarcasm. I’m not saying that the others didn’t overreact to it, but it was a weird statement for him to make it. Something to file away, but not immediately lynch someone for, I’d say.

Originally Posted by Legate, re: Boro

He does then raise some more critical points about Gal, like pondering her possible guilt etc, but overall his tone seems to be rather friendly and *uses dictionary* lenient. Indulgent. Benevolent. (Hope you get the point)

I get the point, but I don’t agree with it. I think he’s being normal Boro, just not as on top of things. However, I obviously agreed with you about Bom, so we’ll call it even, yes?

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I would not want to see Zil lynched, as I said before. Can't see an Inzilawolf putting his neck in line like that.

If she hadn’t made her previous statement about how she thought an Inzilawolf would act, I wouldn’t have thought much of this, but the fact that she’s said such things twice worries me.

Originally Posted by Steve

G55 is impossible to read, but she seems innocent enough so far.

She’s impossible to read, but you’ve got a read on her? Another Steveism I don’t like.

Originally Posted by Boro, re: Galadriel

Well. Didn't look genuine to me. And perhaps I shouldn't look at it through my eyes, but I've done the same thing time and time again when I've been a wolf. Get too dramatic over the slightest of things. Not that G55 was faking being angry, but playing up being angry to hopefully get suspicion off her. As if her honor had been impugned. I've literally done the same thing, indignicantly objecting to people beating around the bush..."If you suspect me then suspect me!" stuff.

I find this to be an extremely valid point.


HERE ENDETH PAGE TWO.

Originally Posted by Lottie

People like Bom and Sally are basically expected to post little to nothing of substance on Day One. You and Legate are not. When people do what I'm not used to them doing, I pay attention more than when they do what I am used to them doing.

Ahem.

Originally Posted by Legate, re: Boro

Again. He is being too nice, if he is all right, I will eat my shoe, seriously. Normal Boro attacks people. This Boro defends people. No. It is incredibly stupid to suspect people based on that they are nice and such, but it was the very same Boro who had told me last time (after the game when I suspected him and then backed off and failed to lynch him) that I should not give up on this lead... so I won't. Nice Boro is most likely a Wolf. Normal Boro tends not to smudge honey all over you.

First of all, saying someone’s suspicions are “incredibly stupid” is not going to make me feel any better about you, sir. More importantly, people’s styles may change from game to game; for instance, Rikae is....no, she’s always insane and shouty in an endearing sort of say, but Nog....no, Nog always rails about lack of participation, though you....actually, you, Legate, can at times be both mirthful and serious. I get judging someone based on their demeanor, but saying that someone else is dumb for not doing the same? Stop it.

Even more importantly, what Boro does with his condiments is between us.

Originally Posted by Boro

You ever have one of those days where it feels like you can't remember what you've been doing all day? That's been me today...like I swear I've kept up-to-date on all the replies, and by Day 1 standards it appears moderately productive, yet...I haven't the faintest clue what the heck I've been reading. Nothing is sinking in, it's as if I'm reading words but not complete sentences with thoughts and ideas.

Flip yes. Just....goodness, this game is killing me for some reason. This post has taken me hours, simply because I keep needing to swan off for a bit and focus on something else. :/

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Though the last point - illogical as it is - points to Lottie's innocence rather than guilt, because, as with Zil, I don't think a wolf would deliberately say such a thing that would put him/her into the light.

Let the record show that this is the third time Galadriel has speculated about Dun’s werewolf style.

Originally Posted by Steve

Just because something doesn't automatically make him evil, it doesn't mean I have to like what he's doing, does it?

Fair enough, but the entire tone of your post (which starts with, “Do I need to explain myself again?”) is extremely worrisome. Why are you so worked up? Worried, perhaps?

Originally Posted by Shasta

...You're kidding. Who are you and what have you done with Nogrod?! That's so unlike what you'd normally say that I'm almost forced to look for a reason why you'd be protecting G55.

....I think you may be onto something.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Lommy - I was on the same page with her regarding the Lottie/Inzil Case of the Ambiguous Posts until Inzil mentioned that he was talking about something completely different. I thought that was the end of it until Lommy began talking about ways that that made Lottie look bad in a way that almost looked like she was looking for support.

I’d rather agree with this analysis as well, though this game has already had so many miscommunications that it’s getting ridiculous....

Originally Posted by Nog

If anyone is willing to help Bom with his suicide I'd be happy to lend a hand there.

....I know there’s an angry face at the end of that, but it still feels....well, didn’t he end up voting for Bom? I mean, really. The flip? Alarm. Bells. Ringing.

Originally Posted by Legate

Just for further reference - I wonder if, in case Lommy is perchance innocent and Boro is perchance Wolf, there might not be attempt to saveBoro by people voting Lommy. But that shall be seen.

Also keeping hold of this for later....


HERE ENDETH PAGE THREE.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I'll comment on the rest momentarily, but I want to get this thought out there as quickly as possible to give everyone time to consider - I would, personally, be not at all averse to lynching Bom. Think about it for a second - why, even beyond Legate's thought (which is currently the prevailing mood, sad as it is to say), I can nearly guarantee that later, down the road, someone will say "man I wish we could lynch Bom, but we can't now, it's too late in the game." Because, as I recall, Bom does this quite a bit, and people say exactly what has been said thus far - that is, chastising him for it but not really doing anything about it. Because the general opinion is either "oh that's just Bom" or "a wolf wouldn't do that, oh well."

So if people want to lynch Bom, I'm all for it. It's about time our threat of "participate or face a lynch" actually had some bite to it.

And look at that. Shasta and I agree again!

Originally Posted by Nog

Well Shasta, you put us in dire straits as to whether act like we say we should act or hunker down wishing for a better result and ignoring the principle. I'm really torn with it. The chances he's a wolf are what the pure chances are 4/16, but you're right that if we don't do it toDay, we will be cursing it later (supposing he continues the same way) when we don't feel any more we can afford checking him.

This. Does. Not. Sound. Natural.

Originally Posted by Lommie

We don't want a tie and die, do we, precious?

I repeat the above. Not. Natural. Actually, it does, I suppose, but it’s still worrisome. :/


HERE ENDETH PAGE FOUR (AND DAY ONE).

Originally Posted by Galadriel

So the alcolyte is some kind of werebear. *sigh* May the victims of the Night's terror rest in peace.

....Maybe? I still don’t know. >.<

Originally Posted by Galadriel

What bothers me is Nog’s flipfloppiness (does this run in the family?). In all seriousness, though – he starts out standing his ground against Boro, and keeps this up while the general mood is leaning towards me being innocent (Boro is clearly outnumbered). But then Shasta consistently and persistently sides with Boro, and Lommy joins in saying I’m not that shiny. And only now Nog has second thoughts about my outburst, and decides that it didn’t actually look good, and that my vote wasn’t well-explained either, and all that. And as the support for this keeps up, he repeats it more often.

Though when the village doesn’t actually end up lynching me, he backs off and says that it’s better that Bom is lynched.

This is actually....true-ish. I still don’t trust either of them though.

Yes, Elmer Fudd hunts wabbits, but the Coyote hunts the Roadrunner. Was Rikae trying to bait the wolves into thinking she was the Seer, who had dreamed Boro? But that would have meant she would have hunted Boro, and obviously, he's still with us. I don't know.

I don’t know, but I keep reading acolyte as coyote and vice versa. Perhaps it’s nearing bedtime. >.<

Originally Posted by Dun

After all Legate's focus on me yesterDay. he went and voted for Bom. So did Eönwë, who had previously said I would be his likely vote, and offered no reason for voting Bom, other than he didn't want to vote Lommy. Why didn't either of them vote for me, instead of going after Bom? Yes, believe me, I know Bom's antics like that can be frustrating. It still looks like a very easy bandwagon, though.

Regardless of whether I trust Dun, he’s got a good point here about Steve.

Originally Posted by Greenie, re: Lommie

This looked fishy to me, the need to emphasize her own innocence in a context where it wasn't called for. Some players do that all the time, but I don't think Lommy is one of those so it struck me as odd.

Point.

Originally Posted by Greenie

A Hunter hint? Why on earth would a Hunter leave hints?

For a logical hunter, it makes sense. “Hello, yes, I’m dead now, but I hunted this person, and they’re still alive, so that means they’re not evil. Enjoy the hearty beast.”

Originally Posted by Legate

...and making a camel out of a midget (Czech proverb - I think in English it's mountain out of a molehill) with this analysis and finishing with saying an innocent wouldn't do that at all.

I bloody love you. Ahem. Anyway, I like this point (or rather the points around it, the ones about Steve trying to set people up). I still don’t like you though. (You know what I mean.) Just because you’re right about him grasping doesn’t mean you’re not trying to set him up for setting someone up for setting up a shop in Kansas selling chocolate envelopes.

Greenie expresses the same sentiment in the next post, but she’s more....honest about it? I don’t know. It doesn’t feel as unnatural to me, though at this point I’m rather exhausted.


THUS ENDETH PAGE FIVE. SCREW YOU ALL. I’M DONE WITH THIS FOR NOW. (ALSO, I LOVE YOU ALL. NOW PLEASE DIE.)


At this point, let’s examine what Sally thinks....



Guilty:
Galadriel
Dun
Steve
Legate
Nog
Pitch

Probably Innocent:
Boro
Shasta
PomPom

Still Thinking:
Greenie
Lommie
Lottie


Before you ask, yes, I’ve seen Steve’s reveal, and I’ll deal with that in a moment, but I wanted to wrap up this stuff first so I wasn’t entirely colored by that revelation.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Though no one found last Night’s kills funny
And Shasta’s not calling me honey
I still made a post
Of who I like most
And who I think we should send running


I've bolded and everything, and appreciate your patience. Also, I'm about to fall asleep....

[satansaloser2005]

Legate: Chill. Out. For reasons that someone else pointed out, even if Steve is the real seer, it would be unwise for him to reveal his dreams at this time. ToMorrow, sure, but not toDay. It would just get his dreams killed. Get some sleep, love. I know it'll make sense to you in the morning.

Steve: If you're lying, I'm going to end you.

Nog: Die, my pretty! Diiiiiiieeeeeeeee! Etc. Also, go to bed if you haven't already. <3


Considering that Nog is already on my top suspect list, I'm not at all hesitant to vote him. If I'm/we're wrong, I'll deal with it toMorrow (and also tomorrow). For now, however, I'm going with it, because Steve's reveal is in line with my own thoughts (and if he's lying, as previously mentioned, I can kill him, which is equally fun).

++Nog


Or, as they say in Limerick....

It's time for Miss Sally to sleep
So I must choose who not to keep
So let us not worry
If Nogrod is furry
If not, upon Steve we will creep


(Not at all my best, but I'm seriously falling asleep. I wish you all the best, and may we all be alive come morning.)

[Boromir88]

I think it's my sleep time too. Not much more I think needs to be said about this, other than I'm amused by Nog's desperate pleas. Your scenario about the Acolyte being for the wolves is making so many assumptions. Assumptions that you can't possibly know/make, unless you are privy to info no one else is, and appear to be making up any possible cracked conspiracy theory to save yourself.

For anyone coming back to vote, seriously, read Nog's posts from #199 and on...I keep having the "he's throwing everything including the kitchen sink" feeling.

++Nogrod

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Note - for this game it's likely I'll only be active during the latter half of the Day, as Sally said - the DL is 6 am my time, so yeah.

In any case, I'll comment on the most recent happenings real fast before I go back and do a post-by-post commentary.

Eonwe - Seer
Nog - Wolf
Inzil - Acolyte

Seriously? Guys. Look at the Eruhen kill. It's pretty clear at this point that the Acolyte, if not a traditional werebear, at least has the power to kill by himself (I say him because Nog being a wolf doesn't mean his points about Inzil being the Acolyte aren't valid - I've thought so myself since yesterday, as did Rikae apparently).

Nog is a wolf. Fine. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynching one wolf out of four isn't going to have any short-term effects - if we lynch Inzil (who clearly, at this point, doesn't have the best interests of the village in mind), we drop the number of kills per night to one.

++Inzil

Also, Boro? Your most recent post? Looks exactly like Glirdywolf from the Alice in Wonderland game of Wilwa's - you know, the one where it turned out he really was a wolf who was that eager to bus a packmate. Not really helping your case there, buddy.

[Eönwë]

Ok, well I don't think there's much to be said except
++Nogrod


And yeah, I forgot ask whether people think I should reveal the name of the innocent toMorrow (obviously not toDay, because there'd be nothing to gain from it at this point except for the wolves having someone to kill- tomorrow, another innocent voice might be nice to have, and I thought that was pretty obvious).


Legate looks pretty bad to me, seeming determined to suspect me and calling for me to reveal innocents (Which as I said would be pointless, because now, while they could be killed, if I reveal, they will definitely be killed). Just wanted to put that out there.

And I don't think it's wise to try a double-lynch for the acolyte when we don't even know what the role does yet.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

And I don't think it's wise to try a double-lynch for the acolyte when we don't even know what the role does yet.

We know it kills people. I think that's quite enough.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

However, I didn't even consider a double-lynch idea. That would solve the conundrum quite nicely. Who's left to vote? Can we pull it off?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, I encourage everyone to think about it quite hard. I'm going to bed - I can't keep my eyes open. Given my aberrant schedule, though, I may be back awake again before DL. We'll see.

Good luck in any case!

[Thinlómien]

Ugh. My lecture starts in 50min an I'm still at Nog's so I can't write any novels and I Ion't be back before DL most likely (my lecture ends 15min before it).

So:

I believe Steve, I see no reason for him to lie, although I was concerned about false reveals when I first thought of the acolyte. In the unlikely case he's bluffing, we lynch him toMorrow and either way we get a wolf either toDay or toMorrow.

++Nogrod

Steve being the seer kind of explains his attack on him nicely, and lately monsieur Nog has not been making much sense. Hats off to fooling me very nicely, though, Noggie!

Btw having had the same suspicious of Eönwë, not suspicious of Nog attitude as Legate I can relate with his initial disbelief of the seer reveal, but that he actually sticked to it after a few seconds of thinking is weird. I don't see why a wolf would not side with the seer though, arguing like this looks really foolhardy. Then again Legate was totally weird with his insistence about revealing the dreams etc... Brain hurts.

Also when/if Nog turns out to be a wolf, Boro and Gal will look a lot better. Assuming I'm alive toMorrow means I will need to do a lot of rethinking. Until then!

[Thinlómien]

Okay one more thing I forgot:

Why do so many people think Zil's the acolyte? Did I miss something?

Also, Shasta, I very much doubt the acolyte can kill every Night, it would make this into very unbalanced game.

ToMorrow I will need to think about Shasta's crazy double-lynch plan and what it makes him, but now I don't have the time, I should be leaving in 15min. Bye, folks!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just a note to all the people who have on the last page been talking about me not trusting Steve and pondering lynching him still the same day: Have you noticed that I have completely changed my mind on that?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

When I say I am going to sleep...

...I instead go and check Steve's posts. Okay, reevaluating.

I went through Eönwë's posts of toDay plus his list from the Day before, and it is true he in fact does start speaking about Nog straightaway from the beginning of toDay (where he is merely uncertain the Day before). It would also make sense to dream of Nog if he was unsure of him, it's a good pick: a vocal player, with good record, etc etc, a good pick in general.

Eönwë was going after Nog toDay from the start and very strongly, and we've been all wondering (or at least I was, and some others too, I believe) about why he was using such a strong, confident language. As if he knew. Well, indeed - maybe he knew.

So in fact, after seeing all this, I am for giving Eönwë a shot. I mean, not a shot in the head, but not lynching him, at least. Even protecting him, I suggest to the Ranger.

We should not have that much to lose, after all. The only question is then whether to trust and try (i.e. lynch Nog) or do something else.

But I can sleep on that first.

(Where that case puts Zil is a different thing, but I am not going to rack my brain anymore. This time I am REALLY going to sleep.)

EDIT: x-ed since my last.

Good night.

Otherwise...

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Seriously? Guys. Look at the Eruhen kill. It's pretty clear at this point that the Acolyte, if not a traditional werebear, at least has the power to kill by himself (I say him because Nog being a wolf doesn't mean his points about Inzil being the Acolyte aren't valid - I've thought so myself since yesterday, as did Rikae apparently).

Nog is a wolf. Fine. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynching one wolf out of four isn't going to have any short-term effects - if we lynch Inzil (who clearly, at this point, doesn't have the best interests of the village in mind), we drop the number of kills per night to one.

I don't believe the Acolyte, even if the kill was his doing, has the power to do so every Night. That would be just too much of an overkill (literally). This is also a reply to what Nog had said about his counting of our chances, who might or might not be alive toMorrow etc... Never tell me the odds.

Anyway, aside from that, I am beginning to wonder about the fact that Shasta tends to propose some different people from the lynchees offered again. I mean, first Day, okay, and it was reasonable to follow; this could also be reasonable for its own reasons, but it is just really strange to stick to it so vehemently and urge the village to vote somebody else always... it is not the fact itself, it is rather who does it and that he does it repetitively and with such vehemence.

That said, I am now pondering the possibility whether to vote Nog or to vote Zil myself also - the question being whether it isn't really good to keep Nog around if we think he *is* a Wolf and lynch Zil in order to get more info (right now though I am not sure what to think of Zil, his actions in some way make him look better on reevaluation, then again, there is no denying he still acted weirdly in this game). In case we do lynch Zil and in case he is innocent, then I would look at Shasta a bit more than before. Although I believe there are better priorities: if Zil is lynched and innocent, we should lynch Nog primarily still.

BUT on second thought, no, really not - we should preferably try to vote for the same person in order to avoid a multiple lynch (or in the worst case, lynching the Seer along!!!!!!) - so in this light, Shasta's suggestion would really not look very good.

I mean, we don't know how many WWs have voted already, but given that there are FOUR of them, they could still steer the lynch in the way that there will be a double-lynch, even lynching Steve! So we should try avoid making it a possibility.

Therefore, I would rather urge all the innocents to vote just for one - and that would probably mean Nog. I am going to think about it still for a second, but I think it will be the best in the end. We will verify Steve's claim etc, so...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What's the tally, by the way?

In any case, what I said - I think we should not split the votes anymore, or even give them the chance to be split.

++Nogrod

[Pitchwife]

Oops, that changes things quite a bit. I'm trusting Eönwë's dream - in part because it explains the single-minded, aggressive way he's gone after Nog toDay, but mostly because it would be suicide for him if Nog turned out innocent, and I know he's too clever for that.

That said, I don't see Legate's initial reluctance to fall out of his chair trusting Eönwë as suspicious, but rather a point in his favour. Has everybody forgotten that for all we know, the Acolyte may get dreams as well and, whether xe works with the wolves or on their own, is by all evidence not on our side?

That's not saying Eönwë can't be our genuine seer, of course, but the possibility that he's something else should at least be considered - unless of course you know he's not the Acolyte; which makes me have worrisome thoughts about Zil's eagerness to accept his reveal.

But whatever Eönwë is, it doesn't change the fact that he'd be mad to claim a false dream. Therefore, for toDay:

++Nog


(EDIT: x-ed with two Legates)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Oops, that changes things quite a bit. I'm trusting Eönwë's dream - in part because it explains the single-minded, aggressive way he's gone after Nog toDay, but mostly because it would be suicide for him if Nog turned out innocent, and I know he's too clever for that.

Indeed. That determinedness was basically (see above) what made me reconsider him. Obviously, it's an awkward thing, but he really had been very strongly going after Nog - and a Wolf wouldn't be as consistent, I believe.

Has everybody forgotten that for all we know, the Acolyte may get dreams as well and, whether xe works with the wolves or on their own, is by all evidence not on our side?

Very good point. In fact, I haven't even thought about that (the initial impression was simply that it is a fake - and very badly made - revelation to save own skin and lull the Seer out), but certainly the point about not trusting everything I see immediately as face value is also there.

With the Acolyte, we are, it seems to me, operating also under the paranoid notion (supported by the mysterious Night narration) that Acolyte is something sinister and evil; maybe it is, but we can't know for sure. We might toDay also get the narration like "...and the Acolyte prevented a Wolf-lynch" or something (okay, this example in particular is unlikely, but might be e.g. the Acolyte can kill a person one Night, dream a person another Night, based on what allegiance he chooses or whatnot, and then do something with it... etc etc etc etc...) Or, what would be really brilliant role (but rather horrible) would be something like "Each Night, you dream of a person, you don't learn anything, you don't even assume its role in the strict sense, but the Mod determines randomly what you do based on the role of the person - e.g. you dream of Ranger, you randomly protect a person and it will be reflected in the narration. You dream of a Wolf, you push a random person - e.g. Eruhen - out of the window... now try to figure out for yourself how this system works and do about it what you will."

Okay, that's sort of strange... but you at least probably get the general idea. It's just an idea, anyway.

That said, I still don't believe the Acolyte kills every Night. (If at all, anyway.)

Might also be that Acolyte has some special abilities and then has something like "By Day 3, you need to pick your allegiance - until then you can do whatever you wish, but after that, you cannot change it." (If that were so, I'd strongly urge the Acolyte to be a nice guy/girl and join the village.)

[Nogrod]

You servants of evil: die!

For Gondor!



Well,it was fun as long as it lasted...

[Nerwen]

Deadline. No more posting.