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#201 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall.
Posts: 276
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Alright...as I was going on what I recalled since I didn't really have time before supper to go back and read I was wrong in my assumption...
...giving them each a point when someone listed them as suspicous (so person A says "I suspect SpM" it counts as a point against Saucepan Man, person A then says "but I also suspect Phantom" it counts as a point against Phantom, if person A then says later "I still suspect Phantom" phantom doesn't get another point...) anyway to continue...as the points stand that way (and admittedly it's not a very accurate way...) it's Saucepan Man: 4.5, Phantom 4 (Kuru hinted at SpM in post 175, but since he never named names I counted it only as a half a point) I'm not sure how to read Holby's post (190)...it says simply that the most suspicion is on those two and actually seems to suggest an idea similar to Kuru's...worst comes to worst it boosts the points up to 5.5 and 5 accordingly... Also while scanning for something I noticed that Kuru voted for Saucepan Man yesterday, having missed that earlier it seems more likely that you, Kuru, used Saucepan Man here simply as a continuation of your previous suspicions... Since I have less homework than I expected I'll be on somewhat regularly this evening...and since TORE promises explanations I would rather wait to vote than vote hastily now...
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A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar. Pan for Everyone!
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#202 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Well, well... This is an interesting situation! No one dead, and fingers pointing in all directions.
I'm going to wait a while longer before making up my mind who to vote for. There is a lot of interesting evidence against several different people. Myself, I'm still inclined to be suspicious of Phantom , though he did bring up some points against others that I have to consider in order to make my vote. I do think, however, that his theory, while backed up by a lot of evidence, still seems like it could be an attempt to draw attention away from himself...It could easily mask guilt. Seeing as how you came quite close to being lynched last time, diversionary tactics are very possible. It may be true, it may not. I have no idea. I don't really know where to look first, there's so much going on...so I will wait a while before voting. I would hate to send another innocent to his or her death...at this point, there is a lot of stuff I need to weigh.
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#203 | ||||||
Beloved Shadow
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Read this post, and read it carefully, and tell me if you honestly suspect me.
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You "suspect" that I don't want to get hung??? Duh! OF COURSE I'm trying to get OUT of the NOOSE!!! NOBODY wants to be in the noose!!! It's one of the primary POINTS of the GAME!!! How could you possibly point this out as being something that makes me look suspicious?! Quote:
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Then, if you still feel like lynching a complete innocent, you can vote for me tomorrow. Quote:
Perhaps a large portion of the vocal townspeople are wolves? Ever think of that? Now I'm going to hold a conversation between myself and my accusers to point out how flimsy the reasoning is behind my guilt.... "Phantom, you're trying to get our attention off of you." Um, yeah. So what? That doesn't mean anything. Isn't an innocent supposed to avoid getting lynched and try to lynch wolves? "Phantom, people have voted for you the past two rounds." Um, yeah. So what? Any innocent casting a vote has no definite knowledge, and if it was wolves trying to lynch me then that would support my innocence. "Phantom, two people who are dead voted for you. Um, yeah. So what? Did they know anything? No. Did I lead the charge to lynch them? No. Were either of them killed in the night? No. I mean- COME ON, PEOPLE!!! Does anyone actually have a REASON to suspect me??? A REAL reason???
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the phantom has posted.
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#204 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I didn't say my suspicion of you was definite, Phantom. I said:
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#205 | |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
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![]() I know that the phantom would have us believe otherwise but I find it rather telling that both known innocents voted for you. Why I think this means something is that we know that they had no hidden agenda or weren't in cahoots with the wolves, so they truly suspected you. I suggest all other true innocents look at that and think that there must be a reason that they suspected him. Unless there is some major compelling evidence otherwise I think I will be voting for the phantom (again) tonight. I find SpM suspicious but just not as suspicious as I do the phantom. He has voted for both innocents and both voted for him.
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#206 | |
Beloved Shadow
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And I also have no doubt that, since they had zero concrete knowledge, they were both taking a shot in the dark. And I would add that it was mostly their blind selection of me that forced me to vote for them. No matter how much you would like to believe it, the vote of a villager with no definite knowledge carries absolutely no weight in determining guilt. Can you honestly not see this? If I get lynched today and proven innocent, but before I die I cast my vote for you- would that suddenly make you more suspicious than you are? Would it change anything? No, because I don't have a clue who the wolf is, therefore my vote should not carry much weight.
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the phantom has posted.
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#207 | |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
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sorry for the double post but I didn't see phantom's and azaleia's post yet.
the phantom just said. Quote:
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Last edited by mormegil; 06-08-2005 at 12:25 AM. |
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#208 |
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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Phantom, (for me at least), it's not so much that you are trying to escape the noose as how you are trying to do it. You are doing two things: getting very defensive and launching heavy duty attacks. It feels desperate (granted, you could be a desperate innocent. No one but the wolves know for sure). But, in-those-games-that-must-not-be-named, when I was a wolf and mormegil started firing heavy-duty attacks on me, I was pulling every evasive and attacking maneouver I could logically find to get the blame off of me (ah, it didn't work. Obviously). When I read your posts, it feels very similar in tone to what I wrote in that first game. I'm drawing from my own experiences (wrongly, perhaps), and this is what I get out of it.
The other problem I have had is that I have hitherto not felt a lot of suspicion towards either SpM or TORE or, in the past two days, Fordim. I realize that SpM has led the charge in the voting of Evisse and SoN, but to me it feels like an honest mistake, maybe because I was making the same ones, even if I didn't actually vote for Evisse. Again, I'm drawing from my own experiences. The other thing is that you have been careful to distance yourself off from other players; I have some thoughts but no clear idea on who you might be a wolf with. This seems to me to be a good plan for the wolves, since then if one of you goes down, then the rest of you wouldn't. Whereas, if you were to vote for SpM and he was to be a wolf, there would not be much trouble in picking out companions. I have no doubt that accusations would fly in my direction, as well as Fordim's and maybe TORE's, based on your latest post. This does not seem to be a very good werewolf strategy to me. So that's why I'm suspicious of you, phantom. I don't know if this qualifies for a REAL reason or not, but there it is: my own combination of instinct and reasoning. |
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#209 | ||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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I am rather hungry at the moment and want to go eat dinner, so I'm going to save my BIG GRAND THEORY until I return. However, before I go I want to restate my question. Is there anyone here who is not seriously suspicious of Saucepan Man? The Phantom may be a werewolf, I don't know. But if most people are suspicious of Saucepan, shouldn't we put that theory to the test? If Saucepan proves to be a wolf then we can spend the rest of the time bickering over who to hang next (and that discussion would include the phantom). I'm afraid the whole point of Saucepan Man laying low was to have people forget about him in his absence. It seems to be working to the necessary extent of getting people to give him another DAY.
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#210 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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Just thought I'd point that out. Quote:
Considering that villagers know nothing, why would ANY innocent villager NOT distance himself from everyone? A villager has no way of knowing who is a wolf, so why in the world would he buddy up with someone? And plus, why would a wolf distance himself from everyone? A wolf wouldn't be at all concerned if he got buddied up with an innocent. That would be a perfect position for a wolf. Your claim makes no logical sense. Once again, someone has pointed out something that is just a fact of the game and somehow tried to make me look guilty. Once again, I have showed that the reasoning behind their suspicion is meaningless. This is getting tiresome.
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the phantom has posted.
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#211 |
Drummer in the Deep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,145
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Dun-dun-dun!
Are we fortunate that none died or unfortunate? If we are unfortunate, the number of wolves has increased, but if fortunate the guardian knows one person who is innocent.
And what's this - the Phantom throwing a temper tantrum? We're either very close or very obtuse. ![]() I'll have more in a few hours.
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#212 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall.
Posts: 276
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>Phantom I understand your points. >However, I still don't believe you enough to say "Oh, well given that The Phantom must be innocent." >Your point about the votes against you: "Um, yeah. So what? Any innocent casting a vote has no definite knowledge, and if it was wolves trying to lynch me then that would support my innocence." what about looking at it like this (and for this I'm assuming that you're telling the truth...since this is for your benefit and you're clearly not going to say anything different) --you tell us that you're innocent and that therefore the majority of votes against you have been cast by werewolves. --we lynch you. --your statement is proved true and you're innocent --all our sights would be turned on those who voted for you, esp. if they voted for you twice --The werewolves then wouldn't be able to kill anyone who voted for you because those people would either be werewolves themselves or the werewolves only defense against the gallows --The next day the werewolves would be really nervous because they would have to divert attention away from their member(s) who voted for you and turn the general opinion against an innocent >doesn't it follow that one at least of them would slip up somewhere, and that we would finally be able to get a werewolf >I'm not saying "Oh let's Kill Phantom because of this one possibility"... >However if you are so sure of your innocence your death could potentially lead us to a werewolf...(so your being lynched would have been a greater help to our villager than your protesting vehemently) >And if you're a werewolf then we've evened the odds...(and you, knowing this, would try to avoid being lynched) >well?
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A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar. Pan for Everyone!
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#213 | |
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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#214 | |
Beloved Shadow
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Nice, Shelob. It's nice to see someone doing some real thinking about my guilt/innocence and possible lynching.
There is a big danger in your plan, though. What if no wolves have voted for me thus far? It's easily possible. So if you lynch me, find out I'm innocent, and then lynch those who voted for me, you'll just be lynching more innocents. Everyone, listen up. If I get lynched today, DO NOT assume that the people who voted for me before are the wolves. They might be, but maybe not. Quote:
I responded by pointing out that a villager has much more of a reason to be unattached. My point is easy to understand and logically sound, so I'm not sure why your opinion hasn't changed.
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the phantom has posted.
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#215 | ||||
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 2,835
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The Evisse vote first.
Originally posted my 'TORE' (me): Quote:
Now for the SoN vote. Originally posted for Fordim: Quote:
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Originally posted by morm: Quote:
I hope this clears up my reasoning for voting late in each of the first two rounds. p.s. more to come soon... Last edited by The Only Real Estel; 06-07-2005 at 07:22 PM. |
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#216 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I've waited as late as possible to vote. I feel bad about having to go first, again, but my time zone is such that I will not get home from school until after the "DAY" is done.
So. My vote goes to ++Phantom again. Because I think he is acting the most guilty of anyone else here at the moment...
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#217 | |||||||||
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 2,835
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Now it's time to answer tp's lengthy post about Sauce & I being in league together. (all quotes will be coming from tp unless posted otherwise)
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Funny you mention this quote, though, because I thought it a bit of a stretch & already suspected both you, phantom & Saucey; and wondered if SpM was trying to set me up so that if you ever got lynched (and turned up a wolf), he could pull this quote out & lead a mob towards me. This way he could at least get one innocent villager out of losing his partner. Quote:
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![]() Originally posted by SoN: Quote:
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I am glad to see that you are making an effort to back up your theory by using quotes, etc.; but they are tied together by so flimsy a string that it looks like an escape plan to me. edit: coming later (aroudn 9:30 central time? A defense of phantom..from me!? Also, I hope to vote... Last edited by The Only Real Estel; 06-07-2005 at 07:42 PM. |
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#218 |
Gibbering Gibbet
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beyond cloud nine
Posts: 1,844
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This will be my absolute last chance to put up anything of substance before the deadline tomorrow. I won't vote yet as it takes but a minute to do that, but I did have just one more thing to add to this growing mix...
It sure looks to me at the moment that we are in a two horse race with SpM and TP as our prime candidates for lynching. I've already outlined my reasons for suspecting both so shan't go into those again here. I will be checking in on the debate until tomorrow morning, but at this point my vote is going to be for The Phantom (BUT THAT'S NOT MY OFFICIAL VOTE! I want to see what happens when the voting actually begins) -- not because I am more convinced of his guilt than I am of Saucy's but because even if he is innocent, TP is doing more to hinder the villagers than help us. Put bluntly, TP is either a wolf or an innocent who is helping the wolves by distracting our attention with his own suspicious behaviour, and slinging enough mud around to fill a horse paddock. While it would be ideal for us to kill a wolf, there's always the chance that we might kill an innocent -- so by lynching the Phantom we can at least minimise the damage by ridding ourselves of the distraction. And here's the really brutal part: the Phantom has floated a lot of opinions and put forward a lot of theories -- they may be good or they may not. The problem is, I can't really assess them because I don't know if I can trust him. So even if he isn't a wolf, lynching him will tell me that he's an innocent and I can assess his posts more usefully. Please do not misunderstand me: I am not saying that I don't care if he is a wolf or not, nor am I suggesting that killing an innocent can be beneficial to us in any way. I'm only saying that the damage to us is minimised if we kill an innocent Phantom rather than an innocent Spm. Some highly theoretical math: Given that I believe (and I think many others do too) that there is a roughly equal chance of either TP or SPM being a wolf: Lynching TP brings the potential benefit of killing a wolf which decreases their numbers by 1. Lynching SpM brings the exact same potential benefit: one less wolf. Given the equivalent value of 1 they cancel each other out: there's no difference between the two. Lynching TP brings the potential danger of killing an innocent which decreases our numbers by 1. Again the same danger comes with Spm -- so still, no difference. But then we come to the more intangibles. Killing an innocent TP brings the benefit of removing his confusing posts from the mix, and clarifying the real status of his posts to date. Killing an innocent SpM carries no equivalent benefit. So it's close, but it seems to me the logical choice to vote for The Phantom: the only reason I won't do so right now is that my line of reasoning begins with and depends upon the idea that there is an equivalent chance that TP and SPM are wolves: I want to wait and make sure that this does not change in the next few hours. To Bed! |
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#219 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall.
Posts: 276
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"There is a big danger in your plan, though. What if no wolves have voted for me thus far? It's easily possible."
True...but if you're jotting down ideas every chance your parents leave the room 'cause you're supposed to be cleaning then you're bound to miss something... ...If no wolves voted for you...hmmm... Off the top of my head I would say that we should look then not only at those who voted for you but also at those who were most vocal about your guilt...it widens the field slightly which gives the werewolves more free range...but it also makes it more likely that there's a werewolf/some werewovles in the group... It would be a gamble but then that whole idea is a gamble... ...allright...for about an hour I'm doing homework...I might check here but I'll have no time to post...after that I'll likely be back on to respond to ideas...since This day started at 10am for me I would prefer to hold my vote until the morning but depending on how things go I may vote before going to bed...Just in case you wonder why I've vanished.
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A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar. Pan for Everyone!
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#220 |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
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This is a bit of speculation on my part but it's a thought that occured to me that I wanted to present. There is a possibility that if the phantom is a wolf that SpM could still be one and vice versa. They both know that they are at the top of about everybody's list, so it would seem logical that they would disassociate themselves and even attack each other. Though we haven't heard yet from SpM on much today. See how that works. They talk and formulate the plan for this day that at least the phantom will attack SpM because they are going to be lynched. Therefore when we kill one the other would be exonerated. There's obviously no guarantee that I'm correct but it's food for thought.
TORE sorry this is backed up by any quotes but at least entertain the idea. Fordim I like the thinking about why to lynch the phantom before SpM and I believe there is merit in it.
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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#221 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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I'm working on my post. It is just taking me awhile because I've got a lot of ground to cover.
I'd like to ask that (seeing as how I'm one of the few voices attempting to speak in favor of another idea than the currently popular one) the deluge of voting not start until I have a chance to finish. I'd also like to note that nobody has really gone to the bother to answer my question yet.
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#222 | |
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 2,835
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Suprisingly, I find myself doing this, after calming down a bit.
First off, this is not at all a total vote of confidence in phantom! But I do have something I feel is important for you guys to think about. I'll admit that my suspicions of tp have been heightened to the point that I was considering voting for him tonight. Then I remembered The Saucepan Man. Sauce has posted only once today (that I saw right off hand), & seems to be flying somewhat under the radar. I am still very suspicious of Sauce, & I realized that although I have been keeping an eye on the phantom almost the whole time; perhaps the reason why I am now more suspicious of him is because I know that he has posted accusing an innocent (me). Before I could never know for sure, of course. I didn't find any real evidence in his SpM/Estel claim, so that made me suspect, added to the fact that I already know his theory to be false. But the fact remains that he may have simply been trying to make something out of a mess that has been our village. I saw no real evidence, but it is hard to come by concrete evidence, after all. I know his theory to be wrong, but I myself posted a very well thought-out theory (or so I thought) of my own that included the late SoN. Obivously I would like to think one can make an honest mistake. Another thing is this: Although I have heard the phrase "you can always tell who is at fault by who denies his guilt most vehemently," I am not sure that it quite applies here. Phantom has certainly denied his guilt loudly, & that is partially what has gotten him to the top of most people's 'lynch list.' But it is sometimes hard to keep your voice down when you feel that other people's accusations of you are especially ludicrous. I wouldn't say that I 'got mad,' but you can probably detect an edge in my voice at times when I replied to phantom's theory involving me. Besides, there's just something about his posts that doesn't seem to add up. If he were a wolf I would expect him to be more subtle when faced with accusations. His tone of late seems to be one of desperation, as if he can see the village's votes are beginning to be directed towards another innocent (him) & he has to save us from ourselves. Of course it might just be that he is desperate to not be hung so that we'll hang another innocent again instead of his wolfish self, but I'm not sure that this is the case. Quote:
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#223 | ||
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 2,835
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Sorry to double-post but since the first was meant to be soley a potential defense of the phantom's behavior I think this will be allowed.
![]() Originally posted by morm: Quote:
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Last edited by The Only Real Estel; 06-07-2005 at 08:25 PM. Reason: typoes :( |
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#224 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Should I attempt to defend myself? Well, I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I do, it will be construed as a desperate attempt to save my neck from the noose. If I don't, it will be seen as an attempt to appear honest and genuine. Either way, wolfish motives will be ascribed. But I will say this. Consider the evidence against me. I was instrumental in the hanging of two innocents. That's pretty strong evidence, isn’t it? Except when you consider (as has been said many times today) that we were all (with three notable, but unknown, exceptions) pretty much shooting in the dark for the first two days. In many ways, we still are. Yes, I pretty much started the ball rolling in both cases. But you all have your own minds and were perfectly capable of rejecting the arguments that I was putting forward. Yet, on each of the previous days, a number of you thought that my ideas made sense (although some of you no doubt did so with ulterior motives), just as they did to me. I would ask that you consider whether my behaviour over the last two days has been that of someone genuinely (if misguidedly) trying to seek out the Werwolves, or a deliberate attempt to lead the village into killing two innocents. If you conclude the latter, then so be it. As for the remaining evidence against me, this consists of extracts from what I have said either in accusation or in support of one villager or another. Yes, theories against me can be built from those (albeit often quite convoluted ones involving a large degree of “double bluff“), but the same can be said of the things that (almost) every other villager has said. As I indicated, I am not going to point the finger at anyone today. I will review what others say and vote accordingly at the end of the day. Although I have a few ideas, I currently remain very unsure of who the Werewolves may be, and I do not want to lead anyone down the wrong road yet again. I have made that mistake, and unwittingly done much of the Werewolves’ work for them, for two days running, and do not intend to do so again. I will, however, make three points that I think may be of relevance. It seems to me quite possible that on at least one occasion during the previous two days, one Werewolf will have voted for another. If so, it will have been done when it seemed safest to do so, ie when it would not (or would have been unlikely to) have resulted in that person’s lynching. Then, if the voter was then lynched and found to be a Werewolf, the votee would be able to distance themselves from him or her on the basis of that vote. It is only a possibility and is unlikely to have happened more than once (if at all), given the closeness of the voting. Secondly, I think that people ought to pay some attention to the “tail end Charlie” role. It would seem sensible for the Werewolves to appoint one of their number (although probably not the same person on consecutive days) to hang around at the end of the day and see if they can catch a double (or even triple) lynching. I don’t buy the phantom’s theory that a double lynching would not necessarily benefit the Werewolves. I think it likely that they would go for it if they thought that they could get away with it, since there will always be other villagers to subtly maneuvre into the frame the next day. Given their greater knowledge, they would surely be fairly confident of doing so. That said, it would also be sensible for one or two innocent villagers to hang around at the end of the day to prevent a double lynching (or even catch a double-Werewolf lynching, if they felt sufficiently confident of doing so). So, the fact that someone is, or makes a habit of, hanging around at the end of the day is not necessarily an indication of their guilt. But it would nevertheless be sensible to pay heed to the “tail end Charlies”. Finally: Quote:
In any event, it looks fairly likely that either the phantom or I will face the noose today. Obviously, your primary aim should be to lynch a Werewolf. I am not a Werewolf, but I would say that wouldn’t I. So Shelob’s point is a good one. You should also consider which one of us, in death, will tell you more, should we prove to be innocent. You will probably learn quite a bit from either of our deaths. But, if you think that you will learn more from mine, I will understand. And now I’m off to crack open another barrel. ![]()
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! Last edited by The Saucepan Man; 06-07-2005 at 08:36 PM. |
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#225 | |||
Beloved Shadow
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My posts are confusing? You must be reading them wrong. The arguments I've given in my defense have been 100% completely and utterly logical. Not confusing. My attack posts on SP, Estel, Firefoot, and you were not as solid as my defense posts (obviously, since I'm not absolutely sure of anyone's guilt), but my attack posts were way less confusing than most of the ones gunning at me. Other people seem to want to lynch me because of a gut feeling or because of meaningless circumstances- no logic involved. When they've tried to involve logic I've blown huge gaping holes in it. Forgive my arrogance, but my reasoning is a billion times more sound than the majority of the stuff coming at me. In addition, as Firefoot said earlier, I'm probably less tied to people than anyone else on here, so you would think that my death would be the least meaningful. Quote:
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Take it from someone who has done it- that's usually the best way for a wolf to operate.
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#226 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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![]() ![]() But actually, I think that the Werewolves would see that as a risk worth taking, certainly while there are still three of them operating (and now there may be four). The Werewolves have got to whittle the villagers down, so they will have to move on from the "clear lynching favourites" sooner or later. But why would you think it worth arguing against my theory, phantom? You have not been a "tail end Charlie" so far. Even if you think that it is unlikely, surely it is at least worth at least taking into account?
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#227 | ||
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 2,835
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Originally posted by Estel (me):
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#228 | |
Beloved Shadow
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I am only opposed to the thought that werewolves would probably try to achieve a double lynching. I don't think people should necessarily consider that when deciding who is a wolf. I felt the need to point it out so that in the future people keep this in mind when forming a theory.
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#229 |
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 2,835
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I'm 99% sure of my vote & will post it tommorrow morning in the 7 o'clock area (central time). I have no reason this time to be one of the last to vote (that I know of), so if everyone rushes their vote in so that I am one of the last again it will not be my fault.
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#230 | ||||||||||||||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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The length of this is probably going to make people not want to read it and I’m pretty sure I can see how this is going to go, but I’m going to speak my piece anyway. I am pleased to see that there seems to be a general impulse to wait as long as possible.
Okay, the first point is that on DAY ONE The Saucepan Man was the one who first mentioned Evisse’s name as his primary suspect and he mentioned her name three times before I ever mentioned her. Quote:
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I did not mention Evisse until post #63 when I gave voice to the uneasiness I felt about her. Then in her next post she said something that made me more nervous. Then in his next post, The Saucepan Man encouraged me in my belief and Evisse suddenly has a much more prominent role in his speech… Quote:
Now, a good bit of werewolf strategy on DAY ONE is to set somebody up to be lynched by mistake on DAY TWO. I freely admit that I had a rather forward role in Evisse’s death and that played right into somebody’s claws. I light of this we have… Quote:
After I made my post about watching people who were vocal against me, The Saucepan Man goes quiet for hours on end, a fact I noted in post #113, even though if you take a look at his posting record you can see that he was still around during that time. After I say this he pops up less than half an hour later to try to lull to sleep any suspicions my comments might have aroused (post #115) It was post #120 when I first made an open accusation in Saucepan’s general direction. In post #124 he contradicts himself (and returns to the old theme of blaming me for Evisse’s death) when he says… Quote:
In post #128 I repeated my earlier challenge to lynch me and find out if I was telling the truth. In his next post he says… Quote:
In post #138 I called him on his role in Evisse’s hanging (and repeated my willingness to be lynched if it would prove my point.) In post #141 I voted against him and again repeated my challenge to lynch me to test my veracity. I think at this point I had the werewolves, and specifically Saucepan Man, a little scared. We now get back to the Evisse hanging issue. In his next post he said… Quote:
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![]() In post #147 he drops Son of Numenor’s name in from out of nowhere, returning to his secondary punching bag from DAY ONE. Quote:
And then we have today. A better job of flying under the radar you will never see. I could have taken a lesson or two from him on DAY ONE my ownself, if flying under the radar had been my intention. He makes one post (because he would be too painfully obvious if he did not) and then beat tracks for the tall grass. While he is gone, he does indeed fall off of most people’s radar, mainly due to the phantom drawing attention to himself and some other people stirring the pot. Then we have my post #209 where I say… Quote:
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While he ever so reasonably and scrupulously avoids directly pointing any fingers at anyone (since as he admits, his advice has repeatedly led to the worst sort of mistakes) he does certainly give the village a shove in the direction of hanging the phantom. And in post #226 he is still at it. I personally think that even if he is not a werewolf, the very fact he is nudging us in that direction is a perfect reason not to hang the phantom this DAY. As he says, he’s not been right yet. At the very least we should do something that he does not want us to do. (Now just watch and see what he wants us to do…) Now, a few other pieces of business… Quote:
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Now I realize that all this is going to be construed that I am defending the phantom. That is not really my intent. I don’t know if the phantom is a werewolf. He might be. I’m intent on getting The Saucepan Man hung and this DAY I don’t really care about anybody else. I’ll worry about them later if I live to see it. What I disagree with here is the course of action that a large number of you seem to be bent on taking. To me the evidence reads that there is a much stronger possibility that The Saucepan Man is a werewolf than the phantom. This does not mean that I believe the phantom is not a werewolf. It does mean that I think we should hang the Saucepan Man first and then see what happens before we start acting on different speculation. However, no matter what I say you will believe I’m trying to defend the phantom. If you hang him and he proves to be a werewolf, I suppose it will look bad for me. But it’s looked bad for me already and as I said before I have no particular objection to being lynched if snapping my head off will put sense into some others. However, if he is proved to be innocent, perhaps then you will be in more of a mood to listen. (Although if he is proved innocent then I will probably be killed during the night because that would be the safest time to put me out of the way before anybody could start listening to me again). Of course, I thought you would be in more of a mood to listen today… To ensure that Shelob cannot accuse me (again) of not having the courage of my convictions… ++ THE SAUCEPAN MAN (Although on the other hand, Fordim does seem to spend an awful lot of time justifying hanging people he thinks might be innocent. This is his second one in a row. Notice how he has also made a rather strange adaptation of my own logic from DAY TWO.) I also have no doubt that those of you who go to bed will just pop in to vote without reading all this and that this will all be ignored by those who do read it. Oh well, fortunes of war and all that sort of thing you know. ![]()
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... Last edited by Kuruharan; 06-07-2005 at 09:57 PM. |
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#231 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall.
Posts: 276
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Like TORE I'm all but sure of my vote...the only reason I'm not voting now is because Saucepan Man said
"You will probably learn quite a bit from either of our deaths. But, if you think that you will learn more from mine, I will understand." Can anyone think of a reason why it would be better for us to lynch him? Ignoring all the suspicions flying around is there any reason why one of them (phantom or spm) is a better choice than the other?...I can't think of any now, so unless someone else can I know which way I'll be voting in the morning.
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A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar. Pan for Everyone!
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#232 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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As I suspected, people are not reading my post. Why do I even bother...
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#233 | |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
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I see your logic and am inclined to agree with you as much as it pains me inside to not go with what I've been posting since day 1. I would like your promise though that if I do vote SpM tonight that you will do a detailed search of the phantom tomorrow as my logic is seemingly ludicrous and has no real merit.
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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#234 | |||||||
Beloved Shadow
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It was very good. I was already going to cast my vote for Saucy, but now I am a bit more confident in my vote. + + The Saucepan Man
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#235 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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I was just giving vent to a little frustration because I'm going to have to be up much later than I'd intended tonight hunting down books for my professor on WORLDCAT because that post took a lot longer to make than I'd hoped. Sorry Shelob. ![]()
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#236 |
Beloved Shadow
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Oh, and Shelob, why aren't you willing to vote for Saucy before me? You voted for him yesterday- you might as well do it again and see if you were right.
Or did a werewolf bite change your mind? ![]()
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#237 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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#238 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall.
Posts: 276
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"because I'm going to have to be up much later than I'd intended tonight" ~Kuru
I know how you feel...I'm not done with homework yet and when I finished my last post I told myself "That's it, no more Barrow-Downs until tomorrow" and look where I am...right back here... "To ensure that Shelob cannot accuse me (again) of not having the courage of my convictions…" ~Kuru I hope you don't mind but given that you also say 'Sorry Shelob. ![]() "Oh, and Shelob, why aren't you willing to vote for Saucy before me? You voted for him yesterday- you might as well do it again and see if you were right." ~Phantom I was willing...I am willing...I will be willing...sorry, tenses have just about lost all meaning--and since it's now after 1 in the morning where I am I think you can forgive me for not fetting about it here, I'm saving fretting for the paper that's due tomorrow and still isn't finished... What happened was I wondered why Kuru would suggest Saucepan Man when (as I was remembering) general suspicion seemed to be on you. I then had to go eat, when I came back I counted (as I described ye-many posts before) and realized that it was really really close and that SpM was by a hinted accusation actually ahead of you. After your outburst My mind was flitting through possibilities and landed upon the possibility I described in my bullet-point post. Since that point I've been unable to work my mind around to seeing the advantages of killing Saucepan Man. I know that they're there...it's just my mind got itself caught between cleaning and homework to the point where the path it had already laid out here was clear and everything else gets detoured into my big end of the year project (mumblewhinecomplain)...that's why I asked "Can anyone think of a reason why it would be better for us to lynch him [SpM]?" I honestly can't given my state of mind right now. As to this "Or did a werewolf bite change your mind? ![]() Given my state of mind and My already proven inability to figure out what's said in jest and what isn't I'm going with the fact that Kuru seems to have taken this seriously to respond that what I've said above is true, whether or not you believe it is up to you...and if we're talking about bites I would like to point out that a veritable army of mosquitos have taken up residence in my room, I've got so many bites I probably wouldn't relize if a werewolf slipped one in...if, however, I turn into a mosquito tonight you'll know that were-wolves aren't the least of our problems, we'll have to deal with were-mosquitos too...
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A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar. Pan for Everyone!
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#239 |
Beloved Shadow
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Well, I'm off to bed so I won't be around to argue any more until shortly before the deadline.
As my last contribution to those of you who can't make up your minds, I'll provide links to all of my wonderful posts defending myself. ![]() ![]() I am innocent. I'm super innocent. No wait, I'm extremely innocent. Or should I say entirely innocent. Or perhaps innocent as pure wind-driven snow. And don't forget I'm child-like innocent. Read them and see if you can really support the case against me as much as you can support the case against Saucy.
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#240 | ||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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If it is "yes" then the translation of that post is that The Saucepan Man is not online right now or Shelob hasn't yet been able to clear her turning on him with him yet. (Let's see if that doesn't bring him out of the woodwork.)
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