Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Lommy, you were solid throughout and thanks again for telling me to go invisible.

You're welcome. I actually always do that to people and I get to do it almost once a game, so I'm pretty used to it...

[Gwathagor]

Thanks for a fun game, Fea. Well played, Brinn!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Gwath - why did you get lynched again?

Herd-mentality suspicion/voting behavior.

[Nogrod]

So time for some special thanks.

Great concept Fea! *bows* This merits a rerun on one day! But like with the DW once in a year might be fitting as it's such a gigantic undertaking.

Love you Brinn! You really stole the show! *kudos*

And yes morm, I've soon finished devouring my wardrobe...

I mean he told us from Night1 on that we should really get into the bussiness and kill Boro and then tp, and he did it every Night. And every Night me and Brinn voted him over on the issue (and yes, I used about the exact same wording with killing McCaber that Lommy used speculating it was me behind it ). But I still think the game was much more fun woth Boro and tp around even if Boro happened to be the seer.

Which brings me to Boro. Now you should never-ever be appointed the seer any more! If I'm right about my reminiscences your track record on that job is just baffling - I think you had something like three wolves in four Nights in a game long time ago - or something like that. You're a deadly seer man!

Also great game tp! I totally agree with you two that trust is an important thing in a game of ww but you must see that from my point of view I just couldn't kind of say it out aloud but had to challenge your trust as I wished to get you lynched and not killed by Night - and that required that people should start to suspect your amiable relationship - and possibly you yourself might start to distrust it. That of course was an utter failure from my part.

Great first game Ilya! One really didn't have the feeling you were first time on board! I hope too see you again in these games!

Solid performances and good company Lommy, Greenie, Nerwen, Rune ... and Kath (oh my, we don't suspect each other that much any more; where's all the solid that used to make the world firm?)

It was sad to see especially Legate, Aganzir and Sally go so early. It would have been fun to have you around for a longer period. The same goes indeed to those we killed as well but unfortunately the nature of this game is such that someone has to go, everyDay and everyNight...

Especially Gwath seems to be the unfortunate soldier who gets lynched whenever people are generally in doubt...


As to our kills... it's been a long time those first ones took place and I don't have the PM's stored anywhere, but I kind of remember we had some half-believable seer-hunches on two or three of them which fitted with the "sporty-lupinity".

A question to everyone. Why did you think it such a big deal that the wolves would do their best to make one or two of them representatives early in the game? There was much talk about that and people made their suspicions based on that presumption - which was totally crazy. I mean we had no hurry to make sure one of us is a rep, there was no reason for that kind of exposure.

[Brinniel]

Thanks everyone. This was one of the hardest WW games I've ever played, so I am rather proud I actually managed to pull it off.

To my fellow wolves- I enjoyed our Nightly PMs though our time was short. Ka I had a bad feeling would get lynched, but I thought she was sneaky enough that it would happen later rather than sooner. It was a shame to see Noggie and morm go...who knows how much longer they would've lasted if they hadn't been seer revealed. At least they kept the village amused, though I admit at the time I was more frightened at the idea that I would be all alone after they were lynched...

And morm, I'm terribly sorry for not listening to you. I felt absolutely horrible about the previous Night once Boro revealed. Though in my defense, I did mention in a PM that you probably shouldn't listen to me. See here:

Originally Posted by me on Night 3

But then again, maybe you shouldn't listen to me at all because usually my vibes are completely and utterly wrong....

Boro and tp, you two drove me nuts! But you really pulled off a wonderful little act. And brilliant seeing, Boro.

Ilya, you did such a wonderful job for your first game. I'm curious to see how you would make out as a wolf one Day.

Rune, thanks for not killing me. Though now I fear you will now vote to lynch me in every game after this...

Lommy, that was an excellent last Day lynch choice if I may say so myself. But in all honesty, I don't envy the position you were put in. You may have not caught me, but you did an excellent job of handling the pressure and I appreciated the effort you put into it.

Kath, Greenie, Nerwen: I enjoyed playing with all of you on the final Days. The Days may have gotten quieter towards the end, but you girls kept it interesting.

Legate, sorry I helped get you lynched so early. The game surely would've been even more interesting had you been around longer. But hey, it can't be helped...I'm evil after all...

Fea, this game was a brilliant idea and you did an excellent job bringing it to life.

Mith, Rikae, other guest mods: Wonderful job on the narrations. We all appreciate your help, plus all the mod commentary was rather amusing.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Next time you should not give the people a vote for "no-filibusters" if you wish those to occur - or at least adjust the deadline so that those able, willing and needy to do that can actually try it...

I agree with that. What I learned is every time there would've been a good opportunity or reason for a filibuster, the village will vote out the possibility. As long as the cloture vote remains, I think it'd be fair to eliminate the no filibuster vote.

Btw, I realised I was only voted as rep once this entire game and that was on Day 1. I guess that just proves you don't have to necessarily vote to lynch in order to be influential.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

As to our kills... it's been a long time those first ones took place and I don't have the PM's stored anywhere, but I kind of remember we had some half-believable seer-hunches on two or three of them which fitted with the "sporty-lupinity".

I have the PMs stored away on a Word document. Perhaps I'll pull up some quotes later.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Especially Gwath seems to be the unfortunate soldier who gets lynched whenever people are generally in doubt...

Behold the power of group-think.

I'd like to think it has to do with my terrifying aura of menace and power...

[Brinniel]

Since it seems a lot of people are curious, I'll post some parts of the PMs. On Night 1 there was so much talk of strategy, it's hard to just summarise.

Originally Posted by morm

Obviously it is important for us to have some sway in the process of who is elected. I think it would be somewhat wise to have some people elected who are easy to suspect. That way when they get it wrong it can and will be used against them. It is likely that we won't even have to bring it up.

I'm not sure what we need to do with the phantom, if he would be worth killing early on or not. He is srewd and clever but he generally gathers a fair amount of suspicion. I wouldn't put it past Fea to make him the seer either.

I know that this is early to talk about it but I want to make it very clear that I won't hesitate to turn on any of you should I see an opportunity that will help us to gather the win in the end, and neither should you. I don't think we need to attack each other too early but if there is a good opportunity that we could gain some immunity I would like to see it.

I would also like to see if we could get one or two of us elected. I'm not sure it would be overly risky for one of us to propose the other to be elected. For example, I generally make it fairly clear that I think highly of Nogrod's judgement so it wouldnt' be odd for me to suggest him.

Originally Posted by Ka

I think only having one of us elected would be wise, just in the case our seer becomes a bit too cocky, and that we shouldn't all (of course) vote for them immediately. I don't doubt that one of the first things the seer will try to figure out is not why a representative was selected, but who voted for them and what have they done so far. Maybe we can have one or two of us 'drift' off and select someone else or put ourselves in a different camp. Though, it would be rather ironic if the seer was one of the representatives, and especially if one of us voted for them. As for now though, there's no definate way of knowing who is the seer, hopefully tomorrow reveals something.

tp is a good choice, but it would be far too likely for everyone involved if he was the seer. I dunno, it seems as if the game would be far less challenging. tp may be quite clever, but he can stumble a little if you feed the fire of his ego enough (namely to have a flippant attitude, then be constructively nice and only active enough to please his interests). Worked for me last time, I wasn't a wolf but he left me fairly well alone as long as I sometimes remembered that he was 'the' phantom and that he used his own type reason.

I'm not certain if it'll work this time, but I'd rather pay more attention to Boromir88. He's steady and stubborn for sure, but also tricky in that everyone will eventually leave him and his interests alone when they really shouldn't. I guess just keeping an eye on him for now would be a good suggestion.

The sacrificing tactic is okay, I guess, but you have to be careful you don't do it in the middle of a bandwagon crisis and/or too early. I've been the 'volunteer' twice and when we didn't plan right at least one or two of the other wolves were immediately spotted by a more analytical player the next voting Day. So, I agree with morm on that it should be used lightly. Preferably as one of the few last resorts, killing one and then to end up hanging ourselves is one of the ways to make us feel rather pathetic.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Anyway - and with regards to anyone other than us - we should not work too tightly around the same issues. This is a big village and I think we all should more or less ignore at least one or two of our mates during the first Days.


Of course if there is a clear "talk of the town" on Day1 fex. it would be hard to not say anything about it. But one of us could play then the annoyed person who says "it's stupid to concentrate on just one thing" - while someone else might be one to keep that discussion up etc.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Boro sure needs to be watched closely. When he thinks he's on a track he can be not only stubborn but also persuasive and strong. My initial thought on a situation where Boro goes after one of us would be that someone might echo his suspicions (kind of play nice with him) while another one should probably go against him (defend the one under his suspicion) - and the third one should just stay away from that particular debate if possible. Or something.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I just got a mad idea. And please do shoot me down with this...

But how about we went on in a dearing manner us all (or at least three of us) voting for the same Representative - not one of us - on Day1? Someone who would be not too keen to vote for anyone of us (even if s/he might have mentioned someone of us a a potential candidate) and being basically sensible. Not making too much out of it but still turning towards that same candidate who hopefully had a wrong person as her/his primary target? It would be both hilarious but also tactically great if it paid off and the one would be lynched the next Day (or at least be suspected heavily from that on?) while some / most of us washed our hands from that the next Day? I mean when we get a bandwagon rolling many will pick it up and anyhow no one will believe the wolves made such a concerted effort on Day1 for choosing someone not one of them and possibly slightly suspecting one of them! It might pay us back in the last Days if we were ready to risk in the beginning?

The seer anyhow will be on our way and needs to be appeased somehow as I think both me and morm will be ones in the head of any shortlist (with tp, Boro, Di, Kath, Legate... you name it...) and then - depending on the seer's strategy and person - Brinn and THe Ka would not be the last ones to be checked either...

Surely it all depends on how people will post on Day1 and I guess that as we all seem to be more or less veterans to this game we all know what to do and how to improvise.

Originally Posted by morm

I see where you are going with this and I like it. I think we need to take some calculated risks that will work to our benefit. The one thing I would like to see is how many votes each rep gets. It might be a bit unusual to get 3 votes from us and then 1 or 2 others. I think the first day that may work...actually I'm going to recommend early on that we, the village, establish a decent target range to fall in between on our total number of representatives.

Originally Posted by Ka

Do we have an idea of whom to vote for, or are we going to let someone make a suggestion then pick which representative would work best to our interests?
People do look back even at the most benign of bandwagons, and they always focus on the first and last few voters. I guess coming in second with a solid ground of reasoning and fairly calm air would allow us to slip by undetected while furthering the possibility of an innocent (or if we're *very* lucky, the seer... though I highly doubt it) will be killed. Either a later voter or the representative themselves.

I definately agree with getting the representatives to attack one another, or at least become so bogged in analyzing each other that they will cause mass confusion amoung their supporters (when a 'reasonable' bandwagon will look like a safe haven, thus keeping all the fish in one or more pots). Not only will it be hilarious, but it'll be less time and worry on us if they take up all the hard work in killing one another.

(I know I sent a PM too at some point, but apparently I didn't save it...)

[Brinniel]

Deciding to kill McCaber...

Originally Posted by morm

Okay, the phantom is creeping me out a bit. I wonder if he is the seer or if he is baiting us to think he is. I would like to kill him tonight...or Gil for not reading any of the rules.

Originally Posted by Ka

Ha, killing phantom seems lovely too, but I've been thinking about whom and what that will lead to. A few, slightly less persuasive people, but equally important in our village are too close to him for my own comfort, or survival at least. Legate was chummy with him, and thus his kill as an innocent might be used to suggest some form of mistrust amoung the village. He might just be the seer, but I'm wondering what a little questioning might do.
Anyways, I'm just curious what would happen to any of us if phantom was killed tonight. I can't really see a full picture, but at times I have a bad feeling about it.
Any forsight into this possibility?

Originally Posted by Brinn

I'm rather hesistant to kill off tp just yet. With his flood posting, he's doing so well at distracting the village as of now. There's a possibility of him being the seer (though I'd honestly be disappointed if he was since he's been a special role so much lately), but if so not even he would reveal his role this early unless his life was in danger. Remember there's no ranger to protect the seer. And I doubt the village is ready to lynch tp toMorrow. So while I'd like to kill him sometime in the Night, I do not think we should just yet.

Originally Posted by morm

I just remembered somewhere in the thread where Lommy said something about Agan and her getting killed by her in the night. I think those are fun things to follow up on. Likely it won't get Agan lynched but it sure would occupy a good chunk of the days discussion.

Boromir is a worthy candidate as most people think him innocent. He is smart and will figure things out more quickly than others.

Eönwë would be a confusing choice for the other villagers as many suspected him.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It would be quite unsporty to kill tp off on the first Night. And the same goes for Boro. Sure they are ones we should get done away with but the kind of result that we had with Legate would be much nicer...

I'm not calling for any veto-right on this but I'd suggest we do not kill them toNight. It's also going to give the seer some tough decision-making as well (we just have to get rid of them before the seer comes forwards and reveals their innocence).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Boro called McCaber "a silent assassin". This was what McCaber replied later:

Okay. That isn't probably worth anything, but I dec9ided to just take a quick look on his posting as I knew he hadn't posted much. And what did I find? He never mentions a single other player of being suspicious or trustworthy! (He only mentions tp in passing commenting about liking his jokish idea about us finding a peaceful solution to the village's problem and not lynching anyone - and of course Boro in the post I just quoted)

Well, he plays it silently and safely, I know it from experience like all of you who have played with him. But isn't that kind of an overdoing of it? Like he really tries to be even more un-noticed and even more in the background so that no one would have an idea to try and bring him to the front? And as he's no wolf then who else has a reason to be that uncontroversial?

I mean no mention of any names of any villagers expect the two mentioned above (which were no suspicions or trusting) but still posting 11 times to look like he's present?

So if we decide to go for a seer-try I'd suggest McCaber as our target.

....With McCaber there is the possibility of seer-hunch to go with but otherwise only very-very sporty wolves would leave guys like tp and Boro around and quite a few would start thinking of me being involved in there...

Originally Posted by Ka

Hmm, McCaber would be safe kill, and possibly stir up a lot of finger pointing later on when everyone's confused. I don't see any difficultly turning the tide once that happens, we'd just need to figure out to whom should we suggest as a culprit to the village, or hint and let them do all the work with us appearing innocent and supportive.

Originally Posted by morm

I'm good with McCaber and would support that kill. I think if Brinn gets back to us we will reach the consensus.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

My last thoughts on McCaber...

I've played with him a few times and my general feeling of him is that he tends to follow other people's suspicions - and even be a bit uninterested in the games when he has no role. But he's quietish anyway, role or not.

Which doesn't mean he's not capable of using his general "reputation" to his advance.

But to my taste he has been both extremely careful this time (not mentioning even the first suspicion or trust within 48 hours and only naming two people, tp and Boro, but both on occasion of answering something that was not in-game!) and still visibly partaking (11 posts which I think is quite a lot for his standards - okay, it was 48 hours, but still).

If he is indeed the seer I could well imagine him acting thus. I may be wrong with this but that's the best bet I have this far.

But even if I were wrong with this suspicion he could be a good lynch-candidate as with killing him we could be A) sporty eg. not killing tp, Boro or Lommy or..., and B) leaving more of the loudmouths around and thus lessening the chance the seer checks us as s/he will have to ponder about tp, Boro etc. as well...

Also the fact that a quieter or more enigmatic player was killed might look bad on me, and possibly on some one of you others as well, as at least I have kind of made it a known strategy that I like to keep the "players" around and get rid of the "quiet load"... (happily I'm not the only one known to have this opinion)

But with McCaber there is this "seer-thing" to explain it - and it might even turn out true? *crosses fingers*

As I said - and if we kill him - we should not rush to speculate about his (possible) seership as the reason for the kill, but should let the others to spell it out. Only if no-one notices it and people start to make unhappy suspicions from our point of view someone should step in and like offer an analysis on McCaber's posting and only from there produce the idea that he was possibly thought of the seer by the wolves.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I agree McCaber's probably our best choice for a kill. I'm not as sure about the possibility of him as seer, but at least I think he'd be a no track kill. And he's not as obvious of a kill as perhaps some others.

My second choice would be Boromir, as he can be quite dangerous when he catches onto something.

[Brinniel]

Deciding to kill Aganzir...

Originally Posted by morm

Noggie, I'm sorry mate but I think you are going to be dreampt of tonight, if not already. I had a crazy thought...what if Rune is the seer. He has NEVER been this friendly towards me and he comes out not suspecting me which got me thinking that perhaps he is the seer and he dreampt of me the first night but didn't want to make any show of it until he has one or two others. It's a bit of a long shot but something to look into a bit more. He is being a bit unusual too in his behavior. Oh and Noggie a much more 'normal' day for you, so keep that up although I may come out swinging against you tomorrow, especially if we don't get the seer tonight. Because I'm assuming that you are going to be the person chosen tonight.

Anyway this Boro/Phantom pact is really bothering me and lacking a solid lead on who the seer is I'd like to go after one of them. I wonder if it could be used against the other if we kill one. I know that this is what they wanted, is for us to talk about them, but I am half worried that one of them is the seer and they are hiding so far in the open. Anyway what do you think?

Originally Posted by Brinn

I have my doubts, though it's simply for meta reasons. Rune was the seer in the last game he played, which I believe was Eomer....and that was only two games ago. It's possible Fea made him seer again, but not as likely.

Yeah, it's a tough choice. One part of me wants them dead and another part doesn't. Both have sort of been suspecting us which can be dangerous if left alive, though I worry about how their death could lead to one of us. They've certainly set up a trap for us and I don't want to fall for it. The question is, which way do we go to avoid it? Hmm...I'm thinking maybe we should wait another Day before we kill one of them, but I'm not sure....

Those who I doubt are seers:

Gil: His lack in participation says definitely not. I don't want to waste my time killing him...maybe Fea will eventually modfire him.

Ilya: Would Fea assign a newbie a gifted role? Somehow I doubt it...

Sally: She hasn't been as active as she normally is, so I think she's most likely an ordo.

Kath: Seems a bit too lost...especially since she didn't even know Legate got lynched.

Rune: As I mentioned, for meta reasons...

Everyone else in my opinion could easily be a seer. One thing I know is that I don't want to kill a quiet player toNight. Because if we kill all the quiet ones, Ka's gonna start to stand out a whole lot more. So who should we go after?

Aganzir: Is very vocal. I can't say whether she's a seer, though. But she has been gathering some attention, so I think perhaps we should keep her around.

Boromir: already discussed...

Greenie: I always find her to be quite the enigma. She tends to fall under the radar for a lot of people and no one seems to be suspecting her. She could be a good kill.

Gwathagor: He's one of the quieter players so I'd rather leave him alone for now.

Lommy: Seems to be viewed as fairly innocent by most. Could be a seer and could be potentially dangerous to some of us if left alive. I'd be up for killing her.

Nerwen: I was gonna say she was one of the quieter ones, but she's actually made more posts than I thought. But she was the runner-up in votes and could be a potential lynch candidate toMorrow. Let's leave her alive for now.

Shasta: I'm the one who re-brought up the psychic powers thing last game and it's sorta true. After all, while he doesn't suspect me or morm, he's getting a bad vibe from Ka. Actually after all the psychic talk, I wouldn't be surprised if Fea tested his abilities by making him a seer. Could be a good kill for toNight.

the phantom: see Boromir. Though I actually also want to note that in the last games tp has been in he was given special roles. It's quite possible he could be given one again, but honestly I'd be a bit disappointed if he was the seer...

In conclusion, I would be most interested in killing:

Greenie
Lommy
Shasta

If you guys really want to kill tp or Boro, I'm not completely against it, though I am rather hesitant to go for it. But if you guys do insist, I'd prefer killing Boro over tp.

Originally Posted by morm

One thing we may consider is going for a more vocal player tonight and then doing a bit of a mix from here on out. Basically a quiet then loud, quiet then loud type of mixture. At least we don't leave any trace of who we are going for and that would help create some confusion.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I agree also that tp and boro are beginning to be quite a threat but I'd feel bad being such an unsporty one to just kill them off like that.

But there sure is a chance onew of them is the seer. Boro seems to trust tp in earnest, so maybe?

Originally Posted by morm

Okay, I say screw sportiness tonight. If there is any reasonable chance that Boro is a wolf then I say we kill him. It will help us out overall. I still have my nagging doubts about Rune but I could see in their interactions that Boro could be the seer and that the phantom believes so too and he is doing his best to help him out.

Obvioulsy if he is the seer this would be bad for Nogrod, but either way it's bad for you buddie.

I say we call their bluff and kill Boro tonight.

Originally Posted by Brinn

For some reason the more I think about it, the more I feel that killing Boromir could be a bad idea. Of course I could be completely wrong on this, but I have a feeling that he's not the seer. Now it's possible he could be one bluffing his way through, but it's a pretty risky move. There are many reasons why we should kill Boro, but I don't find seerism to be one of them. I just worry that with his death what sort of trails would lead to us or other players...

Quite honestly, I'd be happier killing Shasta. His posts feel a bit seerish to me, plus I don't think his death would lead any negative trails to us.

But then again, maybe you shouldn't listen to me at all because usually my vibes are completely and utterly wrong....

If I didn't have that last sentence in there, this quote would be a whole lot more embarrassing...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Aganzir might be the seer. Just look at this:

So with Nerwen there are stated reasons arising from the actual posting but with me she actually says she has not read my posts - so there is some other reason for that? Which could then be read in retrospect?

She didn't vote for me though - but that would be natural self-defence. Had she voted me or made more noise she would have risked getting killed. She also referred to her suspicion of me and not reading my posts somewhere earlier saying it would take her too much time - which might be just true. And she introduced her suspicions on me and Nerwen basically with the same reason: reacting towards some people accusing us on gronuds that would make us "stupid wolves".

I don't know. She might just have a bad feeling about me and thence write it open there, but the way she does it sure gives me the creeps.

It would also be risky to me if she isn't the seer and someone notices the thing I just did. But then again I'm most probably a goner pretty soon so I'm ready to take the risk if you think it worth taking.

But killing Aganzir might give us a side-offer we'd (well, I at least would) get a few chances to play against Boro. For Boro said he signed Nerwen's death-warrant if Agan was being killed during the Night and then backtracked after tp intervened. Check Boro on #768, tp on #770 and finally Boro on #782. That is indeed interesting!!!

tp's threat might be one of his ploys to be sure, but it's interesting Boro backed away after it.

Talking about the two, I have a feeling tp did make a lightly suspecting comment on Boro already earlier the last Day. So he's not "knowing" Boro's innocence?

So if their mating (Boro & tp) has a seer-involvement it's probably Boro who hasn't questioned tp a single time in earnest (if my memory serves me right; I'm not going to go through the thread to check it ). One thing to draw me into that direction is his compromising stance towards me after the short row. I mean if he's a seer he wouldn't like to make me think he's confident of my guilt with such lousy reaons he put forward earlier so he'd have to play low profile for some time not to get killed by Night.

I'm not sure there are major consequences for you others if we kill Boro this Night. But of these one never konws... To me there would naturally be but I have kind of accepted that already.

But it will be up to you to decide. Killing Agan might be the more interesting choice looking at what would follow - eg. Nerwen getting to the firing line as well, unless Boro (or someone else) is the seer and checks her out this Night... Although I think the seer has a host of people to choose from as s/he has only had two dreams this far...

If the seer hasn't checked me already (eg. is not Agan or Boro), Nerwen might indeed be her/his target toNight. So there is also a possibility I'm not dreamt of by toMorrow.

I'd be okay with Shasta as well. Although I think Shasta more lynchable than the other two and I haven't noticed anything seerish in him as yet. But in this I may be misguided as I haven't paid attention to him too much this far.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I'm good with killing Aganzir. I honestly haven't looked at her much for seerness, but it's possible. And I do think her death could result in some interesting reactions.

And anyway, I'm a little less certain about Shasta because looking at his posts again, he does have inconsistencies.

Originally Posted by morm

Okay in thinking more about Boro, I wonder if he is fully pulling the ploy of being the seer. He decided early on that tp is innocent and has played just that way so that some, like Noggie would see that he is not even questioning tp.

Agan or Shasta are fine by me too. Let's go with Agan. I think Shasta damaged his Day 1 credibility with his lack of posting on Day 2.

Originally Posted by morm to Fea

Please kill Aganzir or the seer, whichever is easiest for you and would create the best narrative...oh can you imagine how well you would write a seer kill narrative?!?! It would be simply brillant, actually I'd really love to see it.

[Brinniel]

Deciding to kill Shasta...

Originally Posted by Brinn

As tempted as I am to kill Boromir, I would really just rather find the seer and I don't think it's him. Because if it was, he would've dreamt of Noggie by now and instead he actually dropped suspicions of him. I doubt tp is the seer either, and I think it's also less likely he'll be suspected...though he still won't look totally innocent.

Shasta's another who is probably gonna be labeled as a guaranteed innocent. But what are the chances that he's the seer?

tp seemed so sure the seer already dreamt of him...if that's true, there weren't exactly many people who were certain of his innocence and we could pick them out. But then again, I think this is just another ploy of tp's.

From now on, I'm just gonna stop trusting my vibes...

Originally Posted by morm

Who would you think the more likely of the two is? Tummy seems to have some trust in me know but it could be a bluff...I think Boro is the most likely and I've got a good idea of what I can say tomorrow if he is. I would say that I figured him to be the seer and was helping him along so that he could have a very vocal attack on somebody that is not a wolf and at the same time make him a suspect using fairly lame accusations in an attempt to keep the wolves off of him.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I'll just let you know I'm having an in depth look at the village and trying to narrow the list down for possible seers. Considering how long the thread is, this may take awhile...

tp and Boro will take especially long. I still don't think they look terribly seerish, but I still need to have a better look at them. It could be a good idea just to kill Boro regardless...he could be quite dangerous as an almost known innocent...

Originally Posted by Shasta

I need to read the thread later but I thought Shasta was so rushed to get tp saved... I had tried to pretend I'm getting a seer hint from him and went for tp and he runs in...? Could it be he actually is the seer?

He is very high on my list of toNight's kill.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Most Likely Not the Seer:

Gil: I think his inactivity says it all; he'd probably be around if he were one. And even if he was, it doesn't matter since he's not around.

Greenie: She was very helpful in providing lists. But her thoughts on people aren't consistent enough from Day to Day for a seer (such as going back and forth, and also suspecting innocent players she previously did think innocent).

Gwath: If he is the seer, he hasn't done a very good job (and after seeing him as the ranger, I think he'd make a good seer). He's just been very submarine-ish and hasn't really given any clear indication of innocence or guilt towards anyone.

Kath: Like Greenie, her lists and thoughts aren't consistent for a seer.

Not sure:

Nerwen: Looking at her posts, I don't see any indication of possible seerness, but I don't want to eliminate the possibility.

Rune: I'm doubtful that he is, but I can't be sure. The one person he's been consistent with is suspecting me, but that's quiet typical. And if he were a seer who dreamt of me, I think he'd go after me much more viciously.

Sally: Has been relatively quiet for herself, and I'm not sure which way that points to. Her comment toDay about "If I were the seer..." made me wonder. But then again, I would think a Sally seer wouldn't miss the opportunity to vote for a rep.

Boromir: He doesn't make lists, which makes it so much more difficult. If he were the seer, I'd say he dreamt of tp on Night 1 and Aganzir on Night 2. Or perhaps that's what he wants us to think. But what throws me off are his comments about Nogrod. On Day 2, he kept saying, "I would feel uncomfortable lynching Nogrod today, I need more time on him." So if he were a seer, it'd be logical for him to dream Nogrod. But then the next Day he finds Nogrod innocent and votes him as rep. The odds are either 1) Boro set up a ploy to make us think he's the seer, but by assuming Noggie's innocent, it has backfired, or 2) Boro is the seer and he's lying about Nogrod's innocence so that we don't think he is the seer (though that is a bit risky because if he dies at Night and the others are left to trace his steps, they'll assume Nogrod's innocent). So I think option one is more likely, but we can't be sure.

Possible seers:

Ilya: She's in the category simply because her suspicions towards innocence has been pretty consistent. If she were the seer, her dreams would possibly be: Greenie, Lommy, Boromir, or Rune. The only thing that makes me doubt seerness is that she's a newbie and I don't know how likely it'd be for Fea to assign her such an important role.

Lommy: Again, she's consistent. Based on her posts, her dreams would be something like: Night 1: Legate. Night 2: Ka Night 3: Sally or Kath. I think the first two dreams would make sense for Lommy to choose based on meta-reasons.

tp: Okay, it's possible he's the seer as there are some seerish qualities in his posts. Though I think he could be just as easily setting up his posts to have us think he's the seer (as he said himself). If he were the seer, his dreams would be: Night 1: Boromir. Night 2: Aganzir. Night 3: Not as sure...possibly Kath or Sally. He plays so risky and makes things so obviously, I still think he's not the seer and trying to set us up. But still, we can't eliminate him as a possibility.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I'd be happiest with killing Lommy or Shasta. Lommy looked pretty innocent by most toDay and Shasta will be another practically known innocent with his decisive vote. And these two look like the most likely seers to me.

If it's between tp and Boro, I would want to kill Boro. Not because of the possibility of him being a seer, but because I'm guessing that toMorrow a lot of people will see him as innocent and that could make it dangerous for us.

Originally Posted by morm

I would like to hear Nogrod's take on Lommy the Seer. I think those quotes you provided would indicate that she early on dreampt of Ka and was just waiting to be able to lynch her without arousing our suspicion...still I want to kill Boro

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The thing I have with Shasta is his rapid jump to save tp (it really looked he was in a terrible hurry). I mean, I don't think he has been that positive about tp on the earlier Days. Him being the seer would explain those things.

I haven't thought of Lommy as a seer but this is for the lack of personal insight into it rather than not thinking it perfectly possible.

Boro then? I understand your points morm but I still think he is bluffing that seer thing (or then double-bluffing us). His wishing to have me around might be genuine but it doesn't mean he thinks I'm innocent. Quite on the contrary I'd say. The more Days those two stay around the harder it will for them to be believable - unless the seer comes forwards.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I think it's not so much that Shasta went through the effort of saving tp, but that he condemned Ka that looks seerish. Because all Day he kept talking about how he wanted to lynch tp and if he had dreamt him as innocent, I don't think he would've done that. Meanwhile in previous Days, he kept saying he wanted a closer look at Ka. As soon as Ka came into the picture as a lynching candidate, he started to back off on tp then said he would be interested in voting Ka. So I think he dreamt of her, not tp. Also, I want to point out this:

In the WW game I modded, Shasta was the ranger and successfully protected Kath. He wasn't allowed to protect her the next Night, so of course she died. Shasta was incredibly frustrated about this. I even have a quote from that game:

Plus he PMed me, stating that he really thought Kath deserved an explanation for her death.

The reason I bring this up is because his frustrations towards tp's claims that he "sacrificed" Aganzir remind me of that other game. Which makes me think it even more likely that he was a seer who dreamt of Aganzir and is upset that a known innocent is dead.

As for Lommy, the main reasons I suspect her of seerness is that her thoughts of players I mentioned as possible dreams match up from Day to Day....and those dreams are of players I can imagine her choosing. There's also this:

I could imagine Lommy the seer getting frustrated at tp for his certainty that he and Boro were dreamt because she in fact hadn't dreamt of either of them.

Originally Posted by Brinn

So in order, who I'd like to kill:

1) Shasta. He looks the most seerish out of everyone in my opinion. And I can see it amusing Fea greatly to give him such a role to test him after everyone called him psychic (and if she hadn't given him the seer role, I think she would've made him a wolf which he obviously is not). Also, if we kill Shasta, even if he's not the seer Nogrod can try to defend his vote saying he thought Shasta was giving a seer hint pointing towards tp's guilt. If Shasta's alive, it won't be as easy to use that defense since bringing up the possibility of Shasta as the seer may look suspicious in itself.

2) Lommy. If I'm horribly wrong and Shasta's not the seer, then I think she is. Because compared to other players, she looks most likely.

3) Boromir. He's a dangerous fellow, but probably not the seer. I'd like to see him dead sometime soon, but not until after we get the seer. I also worry that his death could possibly lead some negative trails back to us.

Perhaps we should ask Fea if we can have one kill per wolf. That would make life much easier. But then again, she denied our request to kill the seer so she probably wouldn't grant this request either.

The problem is I was so sure Boro was an ordo pretending to be a seer pretending to be an ordo pretending to be a seer. So very complicated...

Originally Posted by morm

Okay Shasta or Lommy are fine with me but if tummy or Boro turn out to be the seer, you both should eat a shoe. However if Shasta or Lommy are I will eat one.

Nogrod, I'm going between Shasta and Lommy. Obviously Brinn prefers Shasta...what is you take?

Originally Posted by morm

Okay, I've thought about it and I think it's more strange that Lommy has moderately suspected Ka the whole time but not with any real gusto but she started the lynch against her. My vote is to go for her tonight. I don't think we will hear from Noggie in time so what do you say Brinn, Shasta or Lommy?

Originally Posted by Brinn

Hmm...it's a tough choice as either of them could easily be the seer. But I think I'd rather go for Shasta toNight...because even if he doesn't turn out to be the seer, he's basically gonna be a known innocent toMorrow for that vote...even more so than Lommy. Plus, his death could give Nogrod the opportunity to defend himself, as I mentioned earlier.

So my vote is for Shasta. If he isn't the seer, we can go after Lommy the next Night...unless something big happens toMorrow

Originally Posted by morm

I've asked myself this, of our two candidates who is more likely the seer and I think I am now persuaded to Shasta and here is why. Based on the voting who is more likely to be the seer. I looked at it this way; what are the odds that Lommy would have dreampt of Ka, her vote was not made to save phantom so it's not an issue of her dreaming of him. I don't think it's very likely that she would have dreampt of Ka because Ka was more or less a non-entity and not a big player, she doesn't strike me as an early dream candidate. Shasta on the other hand seemed to want to save tummy who is a much more likely candidate for a dream, although the same could and should be said about Boro, but like you said he could be bluffing. Shasta is far more likely to vote Ka to save phantom because he knows tummy is innocent and he knows that Ka is not the seer so why not take a chance...however in his case this turned against him becasue while he bagged a wolf he exposed himself. I will send off the vote to Fea.

It would be nice to kill off Lommy if for no other reason than to free up computer time for Noggie.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Apparently we're allowed to PM for seven more minutes...

So let me say gosh darn....I was really hoping to be right. But oh well, at least killing him wasn't the worst idea. But I'm all for getting Lommy toMorrow Night unless something major occurs toDay.

I won't only eat a shoe, I'll eat an entire boot.

[Brinniel]

Obviously I don't have much in way of PMs, but I'll share my thoughts.

After Boro's reveal and the loss of my mates, there was no way I'd take any risks so the seer was my obvious choice. As I told Fea:

Since my mates got double lynched, surely it'd only be fair to double kill Boromir and tp.

What, that's not allowed?

Very well. I'll just settle for Boromir then. No surprise there.

And of course, I also killed tp for obvious reasons. Having not to think about my kills made the first two Nights easier for me.

On Night 7, as I mentioned, I really thought I was gonna get lynched the following Day. There were times I considered Lommy, Nerwen, Greenie, or Kath for my kill, but I felt that anyone I killed would somehow be traced back to me. Plus being away on holiday, I didn't have much time to consider a kill. So I decided instead of being a boring wolf and killing someone, I'd just not kill at all. This is what I said to Fea:

Hmm...my kill choices have been too predictable of late and since I might be a goner toMorrow, I want to keep this interesting. Can I strategically choose not to kill anyone? (Well, as long as you don't mention the whole strategic part in the narration...otherwise it'll destroy my whole purpose to create chaos. ) At such a critical time for a WW like me, I'd be amused to see what sort of reactions a no-kill would receive.

Let's just say Fea was rather amused by the idea too.

Rune was someone I really wanted to get out of the way. Even though he didn't end up voting me, I couldn't count on him not doing it again. I didn't want to give him another opportunity to lynch me. And the fact that he was regarded as fairly innocent made it convenient to me since his death wouldn't necessarily be traced back to me.

I had a long debate over killing Kath or Lommy. I felt more comfortable about having Lommy around...she had two other people she was suspecting and neither was me. While Kath stated she was inclined to think me innocent, she didn't seem to have strong opinions about the other players. I thought of the two, she'd be more likely to change her mind about me than Lommy. I did worry that by leaving Lommy alive, it could point to Nerwen's innocence...but then I remembered Greenie as the other possible lynch candidate, plus I could always argue the possibility that Nerwen was bluffing. I debated so much over this, I was late to the show of the Nutcracker I went to see right afterwards (though I can't say WW was only to blame as I also misread the showtimes...).

So there you have it. All the reasons behind the Nightly kills. As requested.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm so glad to actually have a plan work for once. I was stinging a bit after that game where Isabellkya was the Ranger.

Great job, Brinn. I always have the hardest time believing you to be evil (even though you were in my first game).

And very well played to everyone else.

[Thinlómien]

I would have been far less relaxed during the Days had I known that the wolves were considering killing me about every Night...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

Missing anyone? Nope don't think so.

Originally Posted by Agan

Me neither.

I'm not so sure. It seems you're at least one player short, but I can't figure who.

Thanks for providing the PMs, Brin. Those are always a fun read.

Originally Posted by Brin

Boro and tp, you two drove me nuts!

Heh heh. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Nog

A question to everyone. Why did you think it such a big deal that the wolves would do their best to make one or two of them representatives early in the game? There was much talk about that and people made their suspicions based on that presumption - which was totally crazy. I mean we had no hurry to make sure one of us is a rep, there was no reason for that kind of exposure.

I think people thought of that because there'd be no pressing reason for the Werewolves not to promote their fellows to be Reps. On one hand is the idea that the WWs would wish to avoid links, and on the other hand they would like to have lots of voting power. Who is to say which path a particular group of Werewolves will take? Hey- why not have all four Wolves vote for each other occasionally? It would seem too obvious to actually be true to most. So why not take the free power?

Unless of course people assumed that the Wolves were doing that. But then it would be just as likely for people to assume the no-links pattern of behavior. I dunno... this sort of set up was wide open for any sort of behavior, and there's no certain correct way to play it.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I would have been far less relaxed during the Days had I known that the wolves were considering killing me about every Night...

Oh, Lommy, you should feel honored by it. Personally, I'd much rather be Night-killed than left around forever and watch the days tick by and feel the pressure to lynch correctly mount.

Anyway, nice going Brin. Your late game performance was very good. I doubt I would have suspected you then had I not received bad vibes from you earlier. As the game wore on you seemed to really hit your stride. And the no-kill was a historic move. Well done.

Nog deserves some credit for making Ilya and Gwath into more attractive lynching targets. Without that, Brin may have moved up the lynch line.

Kudos to morm for walking the fine line on Day 3. It was a tough spot to continue trying to lynch Boro while trying to look like you were being reasonable with me. You came across as very genuine. On one hand I thought that a true Ordo-morm who was trying to trust me would be willing to let Boro go for the day, but morm didn't give up and did his best to look innocent despite it, and without Shasta he may have succeeded.

And I'm very glad KA died when she did. Without her being done in then Boro probably would not have revealed and then we'd be in a mess. KA simply had the misfortune of being the only available target to save Boro and I. Without that, she may have outlasted some of her fellows.

Boro- wow, that was fun! No game should be allowed to take place without you in it. You multiply the fun in a way that few others can.

To the mods- thank you for providing such fun. The idea was fantastic! And I loved how you posted on the thread from time to time. It was very unique. I hope we entertained you.

Steve- thanks for providing a classic narrative that will live forever in my mind.

*shuffles back to bed- sick yet AGAIN- third or fourth time this fall, grrrrr*

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

To the mods- thank you for providing such fun. The idea was fantastic! And I loved how you posted on the thread from time to time. It was very unique. I hope we entertained you.

You did - it was most diverting.. if I were picky I would say we would have liked a filibuster but there you go.

All in all I am exceedingly glad that I didn't inadvertantly ruin the whole thing on night one when I very nearly copied Boro in to a PM to Fea that contained the whole cast list.... be assured his success in picking wolufs was all his own work... but Aieeee

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Steve- thanks for providing a classic narrative that will live forever in my mind.

Oh, Steve...

[mormegil]

Mith, are you wonderful awards coming? I do like them so.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hey everyone,

I have kind of stayed away from the barrow-downs since the end of the game, it simply angered me too much and I was actually considering giving Negative Reputation. . . . For some time it seemed reasonable that if you can give Reputation for a ww game then you can also give the opposite.

In genneral I thought it was an incredible game, obviously because of Boro, Phantom and Fea. I my self had much fun playing, until it reached the latter stages where I felt I was on my own and did not get much respons to my theories.

What annoyed me very much was that in this game I decided to give my usual suspects the benefit of the doubt and they all turned out wolves (exept for Boro, but I don't have as much of a tradition for suspecting him). Morm, had me totaly fooled, I did get bad vibes from Nogrod, but disregarded it because I always suspect him. . .I did say we should lynch Brinn, but when I had it in my power to do so, I decided to go for Ilya. . . just because I get Brinn killed and she is always innocent.

Basicly I will never ever give any of my usual suspects the benefit of the doubt again and I will lynch Brinn as soon as I get the chance.

I am still debating whether I should sign up for a game soon to redeem my self or if I should just stay away from ww for a long time.

Anyways as I said it was very entertaining game and I quite like the consept where you vote for Representatives, it would be good to try again sometime.

[Boromir88]

Thank you tp and the same for you, at least since you turned out innocent. I doubt I would have been having as much fun if you were a wolf.

Brinn, Nog, you may be eating boots, but at least you're dining in victory. And thank you for the PMs because now I see what a sneaky devil Ka is.

I can't thank Shasta, enough, because I really think that move voting for the Ka and being so obvious to protect the phantom saved the village from a complete annhilation. I don't know if they would have gone with Lommy over me at night, but I think that move definitely saved my butt.

It's wierd because voting for Nog as a rep, was one of those very few unintentional moves I did that might have also given me another night. That's what I found funny, because everything else, and the off-the-wall insanity was to honour our fabulous mods. I knew I wasn't picked, because they wanted to see a safe and conservative seer, and I just wished I could have given them a filibuster they had been dying to see. But one of the things that possibly protected me the most (voting for Nog as a rep) was obviously unintentional.

The day 2 fight with Nogrod, I ended up backing away because as I said in the game, it felt like he was trying to bait me into saying something. That's when I became a little suspicious of you, because it looked like you thought if I was the seer, I had dreamed of you and you were trying to get me to "reveal." But, I hadn't dreamt of you, so I backed away, said I'd leave you for another day, and specifically tried to end it by referring to the Lommy and Agan argument on Day 1.

That night, I dreamt of morm, and that was a complete stroke of luck. I told Fea I had absolutely no idea who the wolves were and within 30 seconds of finding out Eonwe's role I pretty much took a name out of a hat and struck fur.

The reason I ended up voting for you as rep, Nog, on the next day was because I liked your approach to the tp/boro stuff that everyone was talking about. I wanted to get another rep in there, and you had convinced me you would be more fair and judicious about it (boy was I wrong haha). However, luckily (well for me at least) that turned into your undoing, because it was such a big turn. Also, I knew morm was a wolf, he was a rep, and I did not want him deciding things in the end. That's when I made such an obvious move to try to save tp and filibuster, but Shasta cross-voted and made it irrelevant. (But I love how you played along Shasta, very nice. I had considered making you a tasty target like Agan, but thought since everyone knew what tp and I had done with Agan, if we tried the same with you, it'd be too obvious).

Then really Ka turning out to be a wolf (another stroke of luck) was the last nail in the coffin for you Nogrod. I know you have no quarrels about lynching your own, but I also know you don't do it flipantly, and with the known wolf morm still as a rep to vote, it was just too obvious and you had to be the next dream.

Just an example of how crazy I am (if you don't believe that already). The night I had dreamt of morm, I thought by the way Rune and morm interacted before that Rune was also a wolf. So, I was contemplating a plan to make Rune believe I had dreamt of him, that he was a wolf, and thinking I would have gotten two wolves with just one dream. I like risks, but I knew that probably would have been way too risky. So, I went with a revised version, and went after morm for no apparent reason, while trying to suck in another wolf. To which again I say sorry Rune for pulling a horrible trap on an innocent, after you made that statement, I definitely started doubting my reasons against you and tried to stress to everyone I started thinking you were innocent.

[mormegil]

So you didn't really suspect me just make a dumb lucky guess...that makes me slightly madder actually.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Poor mormy... I was on your side the whole time, buddy.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Poor mormy... I was on your side the whole time, buddy.

No you weren't!!! I told you every night that I wanted to kill the so and so unless they weren't the seer and then simply kill the seer for me. I even tried to encourage you with how wonderful how you would write the narrative but you wouldn't do it.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Mith, are you wonderful awards coming? I do like them so.

Oh blimey - I had forgotten about that - I don't know if I would presume as a mere co-moddess. And I am afraid I didn't follow the latter stages as closely as I would have liked due to my dad being ill in hospital all last week.

So that might have to be an incentive for you to play my game.... Which would be fabulous - need the return of the Mormegil effect.

However if the co-modddesses help something might be contrived. I might have a quiet afternoon at work.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

However if the co-modddesses help something might be contrived. I might have a quiet afternoon at work.

Can't... working most of the day then going home for the holidays. I won't have legitimate computer access for who even knows how long...

[Boromir88]

Poor mormy... I was on your side the whole time, buddy.~Fea

So, that's why you kept waiting to see what I had planned? And after getting Nogrod, were dying to see the double-wolf lynch with tp filibuster.