Werewolf XXXII: The Lost Age

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by SPM

Hmm, I find it highly unlikely that anyone (or anyone innocent, at least) would form a view independently and then forget that they had done so and attribute it to someone else who had expressed the same view subsequently. You're not looing good to me Rikae.

I was operating under the assumption it was Eomer's point, not mine. When he said he had no point, it became Celuien's point in my mind; I never considered it my own, and honestly, I forgot that Celuien posted after me - I only remembered that she also agreed with the point I thought Eomer was making. I had to go back and look today to see who actually posted first.

[The Saucepan Man]

Keep digging, Rikae ...

[Rikae]

How so? I'm becoming more and more suspicious of you, now. What is this? Everyone else can make mistakes but me? I'm afraid I'm just as fallible as the rest of us...

[xyzzy]

Hmm... From post #149, I'm quite supicious of Rune. The wording seems to suggest secrecy. An innocent should never try to remain out of sight, and Rune seemed tio be saying he was doing just that.

So I will vote for Rune.

Yesterday, I voted before there was any real info, and I voted for Lommy.

I'm only mildly suspicious of Rikae, but perhaps the seer could decide for us...

[Nogrod]

Just a few things to begin with (and then I'm off to cook some food to Lommy & myself - and yes, we will be sharing the computer on this Day2).

I think Spm had a point in saying:

Originally Posted by Spm

The most suspicious “votes” (other than the “no votes”) are surely those cast for people who looked very unlikely to be lynched at the time that they were “cast”, namely those stated by Legate, Nogrod and (erm) me.

I will also be looking at the non-declared-voters toDay as I find the plan to reveal our votes the best one we have. The end of yesterDay was just a plain disaster. Those of us who were online at the last moments had no clear idea who was getting the votes in the first place as so many votes were undeclared. So we were just shooting in the dark. Let's not make that happen a second time.

I thought Celuien's attack on Kitanna was quite vampirish (she tried to come up with a reason to a fake vote) and I was quite ready to vote for her... until this one came about (there were stuff before this but this one made me think it again...

Originally Posted by Celuien in #122

I apologize if I didn't explain that enough before. It's a result of trying to run out the door to get to work in the morning and also trying to fit some sleep in between getting home from work and going back in the morning.

This game in the meta-level is about trust anyhow. Not trusting any of you others with what you say in-game, but trust on the explanations given when they involve RL. Anyone could PM her/his friend at anytime, anyone could say s/he has RL problems when s/he thinks s/he's under too hot suspicions, whatever. So I do categorically terust RL explanations (like Sleepy yesterDay - as soon as I saw his post in the admin threwad I decided not to pursue his pretty blatant post any more that Day).

So what Cel here said looked to me basically that she was having a rushed day and needed to stick to any good idea she could form - and we don't know as yet whether she was right with it. She might as well be. Spm's discussion about Kitanna being quite knowledgeable kind of made me rethnik the issue...

But I couldn't vote for Cel after that message she sent and we had twenty minutes to go. And as I said, with no cue whatsoever about who was going to get lynched. It was a disastrous situation...

But referring to Spm's point then. I know myself to be innocent so Spm and Legate I would like to look another time toDay as well. But as I said already, my first interest (at least now) is the "non-revealers"... and of course the few of you I suspected already yesterDay.
-----
But the more important point then.

Please make your votes known toDay!

I don't wish to see another Day with this little clues from the voting. That tally helps us. Just believe it and act on it.

Although it's not so straightforward as some here have stated - I mean the reading of those results. But anyhow. It's the best "quasi-fact" we might have.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Menel

Celuien's death was probably due to Vampirish influence. Even though the Vampires can't vote, they probably contributed to the lynching.

Of course it is possible, but I don't think the "evidence" from yesterDay clearly points to that. I don't think that rapid succesion of votes is suspicious per se, especially as it was close to the deadline.

Boro, I think you're a bit too accusing towards Shasta as he's a newbie. I know newbies shouldn't be underestimated, but I think the things Shasta has said to make him look suspicious in your eyes make him look a confused, probably innocent villager in my eyes. Of course I can't be sure, but I'm not very worried about him at the moment.

Hmm... From post #149, I'm quite supicious of Rune. The wording seems to suggest secrecy. An innocent should never try to remain out of sight, and Rune seemed tio be saying he was doing just that.

I fail too see what is suspicious about that post of Rune's. Xyzzy, have you considered the possibility that this feigning mysterious (I say feigning because I don't find Rune any more mysterious than anyone else here) might be a part of Rune's character in this game?

[Kitanna]

I still have a class to go to, but I'd like to say, I was honestly confused about the roles in this game. I've read and reread everything over and over as far as the rules go and I think I finally have a hold on it. I wasn't trying to mislead the village with my post, I was just proving my idiocy by completely misunderstanding the roles.

Anywho I need to run, but I'll be back in an hour or two come hell or high water.

Edit: spelling errors

[Meneltarmacil]

Actually, Saucepan, both Nogrod and Boro expressed suspicion of Celuien yet stated that their votes were for Legate. I'm not sure exactly why they would try such similar tactics, but it would fit with a quiet suggestion that influences the voting yet doesn't directly implicate them. Both Nogrod and Boromir88 are smart enough to have thought of using such subtle tactics, so I think at least one of them is likely a Vampire.

[Durelin]

I think looking at the no/undeclared-voters is a waste of time. The vampires, unless they had absolutely no time at all, likely would have posted some kind of vote so they could avoid scrutiny, even if it was just a "random" one. They don't have to worry about who they vote for in the same sense as an innocent does because their votes don't count. As long as they stick some sort of inconspicuous vote in, it's no big deal at this point. Their vote doesn't actually count, and there's too many people for their vote to necessarily be picked out...not anymore than anyone else's vote, really.

Well, unless a vampire's already messed up. The person who looks right now like they're a vampire who's messed up with Shasta, but I'm not jumping on that quite yet.

I wish I had more time to go over the thread. Sorry, doing my best to keep up, but right now I haven't read enough to point out anyone in particular. Except - Sauce, you sound like Nogrod.

[Durelin]

Ooh, something just caught my eye. Double-posting because...I can? *shrugs*

Originally Posted by xyzzy

Hmm... From post #149, I'm quite supicious of Rune. The wording seems to suggest secrecy. An innocent should never try to remain out of sight, and Rune seemed tio be saying he was doing just that.

So I will vote for Rune.

Yesterday, I voted before there was any real info, and I voted for Lommy.

He's voting for Rune for seeming secretive, and yet he didn't bother to tell anyone who he voted for yesterDay? Now, I completely understand if he didn't have time to post, but he said himself that he voted early. It seems we have a Hypocrites on our hands. Hypocrisy?! Duplicity?! Shocking.

[Diamond18]

Wee, I'm here. Aren't you all lucky.

I see there's been a bit of clamoring for outing of votes. I didn't feel like stating my vote for a variety of reasons yesterday... for one, I suppose I find it rather boring to thwart the innovation of secret votes and just play like usual. Pure cantakerousness. For twice, I had no good reason to vote for the person I voted for and it annoyed me: but since I had to vote quite early in the day and there was virtually nothing posted besides lots and lots of in character stuff, I went with shoddy reasoning. I didn't want to draw attention to my very lame participation, which I suppose is a vampirish tactic but also the tactic of an innocent who figures begging to be lynched isn't the best way to help the village, either. I'll leave you to decide which you think I am.

I voted for Legate yesterday. I figured the devil you know is better than the one you don't so I decided to go with either Sixth, Agnazir, Xzzy, Legate, or Rikae, all players whom I haven't not played with and therefore have no real feel for their playing styles.

Anyway, there you go. I'm in a rather annoyed state at the moment as when I signed up for the game I had internet at home and have since lost it, so unfortunately I have to read through reams of posts at once and then try and make something of it all without the luxury of analysis or re-reading or pattern-finding. Nothing says anything to me on first read-through. So I really am the most useless werewolf player unless I have lots of time at my disposal. Which I thought I was going to have, but don't *kicks things in a snit* *whines at length*

Which brings me to this: I have to vote now. I'll go with Nogrod.

[Diamond18]

PS - If it helps with your chart making and whatnot, I voted between posts #57 and #58 yesterDay

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

(Though I encourage anyone to stop me if they believe I'm making too much out of nothing). However, do we have a vampire connection between Legate and Shasta here?

Hmm... perhaps if we vote off one of them, then the other's true colours will show itself? but it depends on who really...

but what is bothering me is Diamond, pops in, explains vote for legate, then votes for nogrod with no reasoning behind it... i don't like it, sounds like a vampire trying to ward off votes on a susepcted vampire(legate) and move it onto Nogrod. done very poorly though...

thats the thing that bugs me most, the no-reason suspision of Nogrod... it seems to poor... perhaps a trap...

but in conclusion

Legate+Shasta= vampire pair, if we lynch one of them,and he turns out to be a vampire, then we will have another vampire and Boom! two vampire dead and gone

Diamond: jumping from Legate to Nogrod with no explanation... confused innocent? desperate vampire? or a very sneaky vampire trying to play dumb to fool us all...

xed: with di's second post

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Actually, Saucepan, both Nogrod and Boro expressed suspicion of Celuien yet stated that their votes were for Legate. I'm not sure exactly why they would try such similar tactics, but it would fit with a quiet suggestion that influences the voting yet doesn't directly implicate them. Both Nogrod and Boromir88 are smart enough to have thought of using such subtle tactics, so I think at least one of them is likely a Vampire.

Originally Posted by Boro's signature

For your health, and my sanity, please read through the entire thread.

Just couldn't resist this quote Menel.

But it seems that either you are forcefully making bad points as you're a vampire or... But really. Now state me one believable reason why two Vampires would wish to make such an appearance! You said you think us to be smart enough. But that kind of action would be just stupid. Cel was innocent as we now know, now isn't she? So why the "we" (like we had a common consent on this!) should not be happy with that if we were vampires? Being concerned enough to make last minute changes according to f.ex. saving those one thinks innocent speaks more often than not of sincerity and a trial to look at the good of us all rather than wolvery (vampiery?). The wolves have a pretty easy Day1 anyhow. So why would they bother?

But I'm not sure if you Menel just abandon your reason after the first move or whether you're evil...

Another thing as well.

Killing Brinniel. I think it was a work of at least one dominating and active vampire or a teamwork of several of them. And they have laudable gaming-ethics as well.

Some of my ancetors have fallen to the evil and they have encountered very different baddies. There are different things that make up reasons for the kill at Night. If someone looks seerish, if someone is too close to the truth / or vice versa etc... But when there is no clear-cut decision then according to my family-lore there could be said being two kinds of baddies. Those insecurer ones who wish to kill the "good players" (active / influential /smart, whatever) first as to minimize their influence on their game. And then there are the "good sports" who wish for an enjoyable game with opponents who can fight back and thence leave them alone in the first Nights.

Now I think killing Brinniel was a kind of a "safe" kill from the last category. That means that at least one of our Vampires is an ethically high-level player with some confidence.

I don't think I need to make a list here...

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now I think killing Brinniel was a kind of a "safe" kill from the last category. That means that at least one of our Vampires is an ethically high-level player with some confidence.

I don't think I need to make a list here...

Please do...

and i did state at begining of the day that Brinniel was a safe kill and the vampires are playing low for a little bit... hopefully we can pin em down


also, i just realized that sixth voted for me last day,i must read back and find out why he did...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ooc: Since I can't find a way to put this in roleplay for, you get it out of context. :P

Okay, first of all. My last post of yesterday was during my fifth class of the school day. After school, I went to work, did not get home for another five and a half hours, by which time night had started, which is why I did not get a chance to vote, since I usually leave my votes until close to the last second, to accomodate any evidence that might show up. I did not vote yesterday.

My first post today was at college, and I didn't say who I voted for because it didn't occur to me to tell you, honestly. I don't mind saying who I vote for; I had other things on my mind, it simply did not occur to me to say who I voted for.

Same with Legate. I'll explain this momentarily as my library computer time is almost up and the computer's about to self-restart, so I'll edit this in a sec.

Okay, back. Quite simply, I forgot that Legate had been under suspicion yesterday. I've had RL stuff (actually, I've been Prom-crastinating; it's tomorrow, and just today I got a date, tux, flowers, etc. Go me. ) and honestly haven't read the thread that thoroughly, although I have about three hours to kill here at the library, so it's on my list of things to do.

Edit: x'd with Gil's post.

[Gil-Galad]

alright, found sixths post, now my defense

The person I have decided to vote for is Gil. As I said, for me at least he is very indescernable, and it is Day 1 after all. We may as well have a shot in the dark than take out a potentially valuable innocent like Nogrod or Rikae.

so i take it that you voted for me because i wasn't valuable to the group... ouch... you're breaking my heart here sixth... but what i jsut noticed is that he listed 2 other people... why those two hmmm? Sixth+Rikae+Nogrod= 3, there are 3 vampires on the lose.... do the math, it could be by chance or it could be sixth attempt to hide his comrades, luckily nobody paid any attention to this post... except me...

Hell, I don't know how to act on Day 1. Last game we got a wolf Day 1 and it was wierd after that.

wow... now you say that you don't know why you voted me, just a friendly reminder, Every Werewolf game is different, the worst thing to do is to apply what you found out of people last game and bring it here, just about everyone acts differently in every game. Just because Glirdy(using you as an example buddy) was a wolf last game doesn't mean he is going to be a wolf again this game.


i should get paid for my extra-participation...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

i should get paid for my extra-participation...

I love you Gil!

I may disagree with your points though...

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I love you Gil!

I may disagree with your points though...

i love me too...


i'm mainly stating them as possibilities, might not be true... but it brings sixth into the spotlight for the time being... it will probably be coincedence anyways...

[Diamond18]

Bah, this is why I destest explaining myself, I invariably get called things like dumb and confused. Which isn't altogether untrue. But still. I'm one of those players who gets more and more suspicious the more and more I talk. If you must know, I went with Nogrod because he's on that list he himself needn't make.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm becoming more and more suspicious of you, now.

Why? For questioning you over a slip that might suggest Vampiric tendencies? How absurd.

Originally Posted by Xyzzy

I'm only mildly suspicious of Rikae, but perhaps the seer could decide for us...

I hope that you are not trying to flush out the Seer there, Xyz.

Originally Posted by Noggie

Those of us who were online at the last moments had no clear idea who was getting the votes in the first place as so many votes were undeclared.

Indeed. It might therefore be sensible for us not to leave our (stated) votes right up until the last minute. *Glares at Nogrod* After all, the Vampires cannot actually vote. They can only pretend to, so the strategic value of last minute voting (for innocents) is somewhat lessened.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Except - Sauce, you sound like Nogrod.

Well, at least I haven’t come up with any crazy triangulation theories yet …

Originally Posted by Noggie

Now state me one believable reason why two Vampires would wish to make such an appearance!

Fair point, Noggie. Then again, I’m feeling pretty comfortable with Boro at the moment …

And, despite just having done it myself, I am not too happy with the way you are seeking to make accusations by implication, without naming names.

I will post a new Day 1 "voting record" once Kitanna and Glirdy have had an opportunity to state their votes from yesterDay (if, indeed, they voted).

Btw I rather like the new Gil.

Edit: Cross-posted with the preceding Gil love-in, to which I now appear to have contributed ...

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Bah, this is why I destest explaining myself, I invariably get called things like dumb and confused. Which isn't altogether untrue. But still. I'm one of those players who gets more and more suspicious the more and more I talk. If you must know, I went with Nogrod because he's on that list he himself needn't make.

so it was his post of making a list of high-leveled players... so you vote againest nogrod by using his own method... interesting... i'll probably end up giving you the benefit of the doubt for now

my attentions are moving towards the shasta/legate pair we have going... and still Rikae, who is acting weirder then usual...

edit:xed with Esspiem! you have your first triangle now... even though it involves me, nogrod and you... hearts are to be broken thats for sure...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Gil

so it was his post of making a list of high-leveled players... so you vote againest nogrod by using his own method... interesting... i'll probably end up giving you the benefit of the doubt for now

It might be worth noting that Di's stated vote came in before Nogrod set out his theory ...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Gil

you have your first triangle now... even though it involves me, nogrod and you... hearts are to be broken thats for sure...

Zut alors ...!

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

It might be worth noting that Di's stated vote came in before Nogrod set out his theory ...

wow... now that is good sleuthing, i probably would have never caught that... so now diamond is also under speculation...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Okay, first page done. My computer time's about to shut off again (it does it every thirty minutes, and I have to get the librarian to log me back on)

So I'll post what I have in notepad here, then come back and edit it when I get logged back on.

First controversial post of the game:

Originally Posted by Rikae

"I don't trust this Mac person. He speaks of a knife...then says he doesn't have one! I say we search him.

And what is this talk of "less developed characters" from Esspiem? I never quite trust someone who starts off with a joke about his or her own vulnerability, combined with a long speech reiterating the situation at hand.

My notes: The first accusation strikes me as just in-character banter. The second may have something to it.

And then the first suspicion:

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

And Rikae... accusing two people right off the bat are we? my what headstrong you are... but you should be careful... or doing the whole double bluff, instead of acting like a confused , you could be pretending to be a vampire and lose the lead off of you early... i do not like that one bit... and now my hunch is moving on to you being very suspicous...

My notes: To me, it seems that Gil's taking Rikae's first accusation a bit too seriously...

Rikae's retort:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Suspect me then! I like this new kind of game, and I'm gonna have fun with it!

My notes: Rikae doesn't put much stock in Gil's suspicions.

My first controversial post:

Originally Posted by Shasta

"Calm, you two... this early on, I doubt there's much of anything in the way of evidence to go on. There's no real point in accusing each other when there's no proof of guilt or innocence whatsoever."

My notes: That's just me. I'm not fond of first day executions in any games as I've had it backfire numerous times; executing a healer, forcing a dreamer to reveal their role, etc.

Boromir finds this suspicious:

Originally Posted by Boromir

I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.

My notes: [frivolous]HE MISSPELLS MY NAME.[/frivolous] Just because you find something to be a good thing doesn't necessarily mean others do. I was simply stating my opinion, not telling others what to do or not do.


Sleepy's first suspicious post:

Originally Posted by Sleepy

....I'm afraid I shall keep to myself for this day.

My notes: Didn't he have an RL excuse?

Gil-Galad being suspicious, again:

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

....a vampire could easily say this and try to get away... i don't like this at all... is it a trick? perhaps it is...

My notes: Gil's striking me as being very accusatory here... almost desperate.

Possible Nogrod suspicion:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

"And where do you think you're going Mr. Sleepy? I will mark your name right now."

My notes: Probably just roleplaying banter, but may not be, which is why it's here, marked "Possible".

Suspicion by Rikae:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Right now Gil and Esspien look the worst to me...

My notes: Esspiem doesn't seem all that suspicious to me, but Gil is throwing off major danger signals at this point.

Suspicion by Meneltarmacil:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I too wonder about that Boromir88. Seems quite strange in his post; quite concerned about dying, which is understandable, but only toDay. I'll definitely be watching him.

My notes: Well, it was obvious to me that Boromir had something going on in RL that day. Granted, it might not have been as obvious to others, but still.

Also suspicion by Meneltarmacil:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

As for Espiem, I agree with him that accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious. Rikae certainly does seem to be giving off warning signs in that respect.

My notes: I couldn't tell that Rikae was accusing people... I thought that was Gil.

Rikae's defense:

Originally Posted by Rikae

"When did I ever accuse someone based on in-character banter? If you want to see someone doing that, look at Esspiem and Gil-Galad! It's exactly the reason I don't trust them."

My notes: I thought it was Gil, but I don't remember seeing Espiem being very accusatory regarding in-character banter.

Another suspicion by Boromir:

Originally Posted by Boromir

Like I mentioned, Legate seems too nice and a little to quick to buddy up with our Sir Espiem.

My notes: I find this being accusatory of in-game banter... something to look into.

This post bugged me:

Originally Posted by Durelin

So here is where the fools have gathered? How lovely that there are so many of you in one place. You can be as stupid as you'd like, but I have a problem with people always adding their own crap to my pile.

In other words - stay away from me, and I won't mistake you for a Vampire.

Oh, yeah...you Vampires? Yeah, you. You listen. I bet you think you have it easy. And maybe you're right - you may not get any say in who we take out, but you know as well as I do that we s excel at slitting our own throats... *glances at Brinniel* or wrists.... But you know what? You're no different from them, even with your silly powers.

So go slaughter some goats and leave me the hell alone.

Maybe Durelin's the Shade? That was my first thought when I saw this post, although I can't think why the Shade would want to reveal themselves so early on... probably just banter, but it caught my eye.

Edited to make sure I got the quote tags right, and to add my notes. On to the second page!

[Macalaure]

I finally managed to read through today's happenings.

I've started to wonder why (with the exception of Menel) everybody seems to be so convinced of Eomer's innocence. I don't see this at all. That wolf-trap could just as easy have been a confused-innocent-trap of a vampire (in fact, that's how it worked out in the end). I don't say this is the case, but I wonder why nobody has mentioned the possibility so far.

Right now, I'm quite fond of Boromir's innocence. I particularly like his point about Legate and Shasta.

Is it just me or is there something mighty wrong about the way Nogrod and Espiem are argueing with each other? It doesn't leave me with the feeling of two innocents bashing it out.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Page 2 done. Time's almost up again. Will edit momentarily.

Legate, rebutting Boromir's post about my post (thanks for that, by the way):

Originally Posted by Legate

Well I think we'd agree that without accusations we'd get nowhere. However, the ones who care the most on getting someone under any suspicion are the Vampires. So I find Shastani's comment rather in place, or at least I see it "unharmful". It's good in my opinion not to give too much into feelings or first sights and so on on the first day, because we don't know anything yet, basically. Of course accusing is needed, but not just headless.

My notes: Actually, this is the first forum I've played on where first day s happen with regularity (at least, I assume they do). On the others, they're usually discouraged.

Rikae defending herself:

Originally Posted by Rikae

How have I lied? Do you mean my in-character comments about Mac? I was...flirting...with...him. Capisci?

My notes: [frivolous]Is that how you spell the word pronounced "kapeesh"?[/frivolous] It ought to be clear now that Rikae was just bantering.

Nogrod explaining his suspicion, and being caught in a lie (or misunderstanding)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Not so much that (as I said already) but with Gil. You accuse him of in-character accusations (alongside with Spm) and I don't think he has made any. On the contrary he has been pretty reasonable in his posting so far...

My notes: Gil was the one making accusations, not Rikae.

Rikae explaining:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Gil jumped on my comments about Mac; which were (I thought) blatently in-character/meta.

My notes: I thought so too... Nogrod is suspicious in my mind now.

Kitanna making a mistake:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village.

My notes: It's possible that she just made a mistake, but I thought the rules were pretty clear.

Meneltarmacil stubbornly blaming Rikae:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Hmm, I must say that Rikae doesn't seem to be creating a lot of trust for me at the moment. She comes up with a meta-explanation and then tries to shift the blame onto Gil-Galad. Not that I'm inclined to think of Gil as absolutely , but given the erratic style he usually uses, he makes a good scapegoat.

I'll probably vote for Rikae toDay.

My notes: Rikae already explained that she wasn't the one accusing people with in-character banter, so I fail to see why you're still suspecting Rikae for that reason.

Diamond being a rebel:

Originally Posted by Diamond

Honestly, I don't really feel like announcing who I vote for.

My notes: Posting votes help the s, the MC said it was legal, I fail to see why you'd wish to hinder that.

Rikae casting suspicion:

Originally Posted by Rikae

OOC - rather, Menel thought me suspicious for suspecting Gil, though he admits Gil looks suspicious. This should send warning signals to anyone...but ...bah. Go ahead. Lynch me.
I am the weaver!

My notes: If Menel is suspicious of Gil, why is he suspicious of Rikae for also being suspicious of Gil?

Meneltarmacil defending himself:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Rikae, I didn't say that Gil looked particularly suspicious. He was simply an unknown on my list.

My notes: Didn't you say you "didn't think him particularly ", though? I could be wrong, I don't have that post quoted. I'll go back and look.

Roa, voice of reason - Post #60, Page 2 (more on this momentarily)

Brinniel, also suspecting Rikae:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

For now, the only one who sticks out to me is Rikae. Her accusing behaviour is most disconcerting, and I find that she is rather...what's the word...jumpy, I guess is how I could describe it. Unless someone else suddenly turns suspicious to me, she remains my most likely voting candidate.

My notes: You'd be jumpy too, if suspicion was on you.

Sixth defending Gil:

Originally Posted by Sixth

This will sound like I'm defending Gil, but last game he accused me and others relatively shakily and it turned out he was . It is quite hard with him to tell if he is or what.

My notes: I haven't played here before, so I'm not up on posting styles, so if someone could confirm this for me, I'd appreciate it.

Eomer setting a trap:

Originally Posted by Eomer

Kitanna is a vampire. I am very suspicious of what she has done.

My notes: Clever of him.

Lomia stating my thoughts:

Originally Posted by Lomia

I don't see what this mess about Rikae is. I think she seems pretty normal and bantery. Noggie and Gil seem to be allied against her, and I find it very weird.

My notes: My thoughts exactly.

Mac, suspicious of Rikae defending herself:

Originally Posted by Mac

Anyway, please, don't be suspicious of Rikae for flirting with me, I'd make me feel guilty.
The thing that does make me suspicious of her, however, is that she does little else than flirting, in-character things, self-defense and a flimsy case against Nogrod and Gil.

My notes: The case is a bit more than flimsy. Gil accused Rikae of accusing people with in-game banter, and Nogrod lied/made a mistake and accused Rikae of accusing Gil of accusing people with in-game banter.

Mac suspecting with no evidence:

Originally Posted by Mac

Boro has already said it, and I agree: Legate is being too nice for my liking, too.

My notes: Why?

Mac suspecting with no evidence, continued:

Originally Posted by Mac

I'm also perceiving some strange karma from Meneltarmacil.

My notes: Again, why?

Rikae falling in the trap:

Originally Posted by Rikae

"I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.
And as for you, Mac, I ought to suspect you for claiming I made a case against Nogrod when I did not.

My notes: Eomer doesn't have a point, it was a baseless accusation. Why'd you jump on it?

Rikae turning the tables:

Originally Posted by Rikae

As I recall, I said I didn't trust Esspiem and Gil. In retrospect, though, since Esspiem had self-defense to think of and Gil is almost always suspicious; Menel's reaction worried me more. I admit, I made a mistake in my response, translating "accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious" to "Gil is suspicious" in my mind, simply because that's what Gil did when he called me "very suspicious" for "suspecting two people" (Mac and Esspiem.)

My notes: The part about Gil being almost always suspicious doesn't really make a lot of sense, in context.

Mac apologizing for his mistake:

Originally Posted by Mac

Ack! Gil and Espiem, I meant.

My notes: This was probably an honest mistake.

Eomer springing the trap:

Originally Posted by Eomer

Rikae mentioned that I had 'a good point about Kitanna.' But I didn't. I didn't have a single point about Kitanna. All I said was that she's a vampire and then, from nowhere, Rikae and Celuien are on her case. You, Lommy, can't understand their reasoning, and neither can I.

My notes: The fact that Rikae and Celuien both targeted Kitanna says that either they're looking for an victim, or they're following someone blindly. Since I hardly believe the latter, I have to stick with the former, at least for page 2.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmm, I have just markedly revised my opinion of you, Shasta. While I don't agree with every point that you have made, you are clearly no bumbling newbie.

And I thought that this was a very well made point:

Originally Posted by Shasta

Just because you find something to be a good thing doesn't necessarily mean others do. I was simply stating my opinion, not telling others what to do or not do.

While I tend to side with Boro on this particular issue (that accusations can be a good way of prompting telling reactions), it is worth bearing in mind that different people approach the game in different ways. Quite often, people (myself included) are far too willing to judge others by reference to what they would do in a particular situation.

[Kitanna]

I'm doing some serious catching up and I find something SpM said rather helpful at this point. It is about Rikae, who has been quite talked about thus far.

Secondly, and of greater concern to me, is her involvement in the Kitanna affair. When Eomer laid his apparent trap with his accusation of Kitanna, she said:

This brought her under suspicion for having jumped on Eomer’s unspecified accusation (and thereby fallen into his trap). In response to that suspicion, she said:

Yet Celuien only picked up on the Kitanna thing after Rikae had already done so. So how could Rikae have been responding to Celuien’s point when Celuien had not even made her point at that stage?

I wondered about this myself when I was reading through the thread earlier. How can she agree with Celuien, when Cel hadn't even said anything on the subject yet?

Then Rikae says:

I'll just be absolutely honest here, make of that what you will. When I read Eomer's comment on Kitanna, I looked back at her post to see what it was she was doing, and immediately saw that she was casting doubt on the theory that no villager would lie about their vote. I assumed this was Eomer's point and responded accordingly.

I fail to see how what Eomer said could be taken as a point. It was a statement, offering nothing more than some bold accusation with nothing there to back it up.
Also:

When Eomer claimed to have had no point, I remembered Celuien had articulated the same thing and, forgetting I came to the conclusion independantly of her, said it was her point.

What same thing? Celuien made a point or two, Eomer did not.

Kitanna, of course, actually argued against revealing votes.

Just like to say that was more due to my confusion than anything else. And also I didn't get the chance to vote.

I was operating under the assumption it was Eomer's point, not mine. When he said he had no point, it became Celuien's point in my mind; I never considered it my own, and honestly, I forgot that Celuien posted after me - I only remembered that she also agreed with the point I thought Eomer was making. I had to go back and look today to see who actually posted first.

I'm really failing to see a train of thought/point in this. You say it was Eomer's thought you agreed with, but then you say he had no point and so naturally it was Celuien's thought you agreed with. Despite her posting it after what you said.

How so? I'm becoming more and more suspicious of you, now. What is this? Everyone else can make mistakes but me? I'm afraid I'm just as fallible as the rest of us...

On the surface this appears to be more than a simple mistake. Mainly because you are making very little sense as to how you reached your conclusion.

That's what I have to say thus far. I plan on looking at others who have garnered a good deal of suspicions today (Legate/Shasta mostly) and perhaps a few others if time permits.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Celuien

I'm really failing to see a train of thought/point in this. You say it was Eomer's thought you agreed with, but then you say he had no point and so naturally it was Celuien's thought you agreed with. Despite her posting it after what you said.

I said I agreed with what I thought Eomer was saying; i.e, that your post (so easily forgotten now) looked somewhat suspicious. He then claimed he had no point; but Celuien had found the same things suspicious in your post that I had, and yes, for the third time, I forgot whether Cel or I said these things first. I had seen it as the point of Eomer's accusation, though he now claims it wasn't, and assumed Celuien did the same thing I did - that is, saw Eomer's post, looked at your post, and saw how fishy it was.
I've already explained this three times. You are blatently misrepresenting what I said now; the first post could be an honest mistake, but this makes me wonder if it was deliberate after all.

[Boromir88]

Ahh...Mac if you're a vampire we are in trouble, I like your point about Eomer. It's most probable that Eomer is an innocent, though we shouldn't take that as a known fact. Your reminder that Eomer is not 'known innocent,' is quite true...though I would tell you that for now I think Eomer is one of the most innocent looking members here and I find others to look more vampire-ish.

Is it just me or is there something mighty wrong about the way Nogrod and Espiem are argueing with each other? It doesn't leave me with the feeling of two innocents bashing it out.~Mac

No alarms are raised in me about SPM, he looks innocent to me. I'm a little less sure about Nogrod and haven't reached a decision on him yet.

Both Nogrod and Boromir88 are smart enough to have thought of using such subtle tactics, so I think at least one of them is likely a Vampire.~Menel

Nothing I do is influenced by Nogrod nor anyone else here. I'm alone and make my own decisions. You are correct that if I was a vampire I would do exactly that, but see something that looks like what a vampire would do often looks like what an innocent would do as well. I thought good points had been raised against Celuien, and I agreed. Though you will see that I consistently was on Legate's case yesterday, I voted for Legate, and I don't think that's going to change today.

Boro, I think you're a bit too accusing towards Shasta as he's a newbie.~Thinlo

Perhaps, you could be right. However, Legate's subtle defense of Shasta yesterday, and Shasta 'accidentally' leaving out Legate today looks more than simply coincidental to me.

As someone who's family history has been a wolf more than just once in the past, that is alarming behavior that shouts wolves! (or in this case vampires). The little defenses of partners and the very little interaction/failing to mention of partners.

Just because you find something to be a good thing doesn't necessarily mean others do. I was simply stating my opinion, not telling others what to do or not do.~Shasta

Quite true, no one has to agree with me. I call it as I see it. Maybe 'blind accusations' just cause confusion and make the vampires jobs easier...however I hardly think sitting around and just 'waiting' for some kind of evidence to appear on someone is hardly a better strategy. Therefor, getting people interacting, accusing, suspecting, has always been helpful to me, so I do it. I encourage others to do it and naturally anyone who suggests differently I think is a bit odd and needs to be looked into more.

I too am liking Gil-galad in this game. I've always found Gil to be someone who's got good instincts and can spot the enemy, but from his times in the past he looked random and I never really took him seriously. It's different now, and I kind of like it. I think we should all pay attention to his remarks here:

wow... now you say that you don't know why you voted me, just a friendly reminder, Every Werewolf game is different, the worst thing to do is to apply what you found out of people last game and bring it here, just about everyone acts differently in every game. Just because Glirdy(using you as an example buddy) was a wolf last game doesn't mean he is going to be a wolf again this game.

Edit: x-ed with everyone past Shasta's last post

[Kitanna]

There's quite a buzz around Shasta and Legate so far and while I was reading through today's posts I didn't see it. But I'd like to take a closer look at them now.

Shasta: His first few posts were little more than in character role-playing. Post #63 pertained to accusing people with no real basis. He then says this about Gil:

Also, Gil seems suspicious to me... Mostly, it's his blatant misreading of Rikae's bantering accusations. It was perfectly obvious to me, at least, that it was only a joke... He does seem, at first glance, to be trying to snare a scapegoat.

As far as Day 1 is concerned I personally can't see much that would make Shasta truly stand out. The only thing that made me think was about accusations and the small chance of catching a vampire. But even then that was more odd to me than alarming.
He started out today just commenting on Brinn's death and that she wasn't mentioned. His second post of today was what many found interesting (or from what I've gathered it looks that way). That was the post with the top suspects from yesterday. Boro pointed out a few people missing and I have to agree. What I really wonder about is the fact that SpM was included. He didn't seem to be very high on anyone's suspect list yesterday. I find the list he provided odd, but not enough to see Shasta as overly suspicious.

And it seems there has been some suspicion cast on Shasta so far. A few things he has said stand out, but I don't see him as overly suspicious.
I'd like to look at Legate as well since Shasta and Legate were paired together by a couple of people. I also want to take a look at Boro (for calling Shasta to my attention in the first place) and I'd really like to look at this new Gil (if only because I am utterly shocked by this new more active player). But I have a meeting right now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Espiem was on my list because I remembered the Gil/Rikae/Espiem triangle from yesterday. I forgot that some people (i.e. Boromir, Gil) were suspicious of Legate, so I neglected to put him on the list. That's all.

As of right now, I'll probably be voting for Gil. That's not set in stone yet, though.

[Thinlómien]

Kitanna looks innocent-ish to me now. Even though I disagree with her I find her tone quite sincere. (Note: I'm definitely not considering her innocent!)

There's been a lot of talk about Legate and Shasta. While I don't deny the possibility of them being batmen mates, I don't think the connection between them is obvious in anyway. Vampire-Legate and Vampire-Shasta might have interacted in the way they did, but so could have innocent Legate and innocent Shasta, or innocent Legate and vampire-Shasta, or vampire-Legate and innocent Shasta... If it comes down to voting these guys, I'd rather go for Legate because of his utterly weird Sixth-vote yesterDay...

Originally Posted by Noggie

That means that at least one of our Vampires is an ethically high-level player with some confidence.

I'm inclined to agree, (although I won't be basing my theories and suspects on that assumption)...

Originally Posted by Gil

so i take it that you voted for me because i wasn't valuable to the group... ouch... you're breaking my heart here sixth... but what i jsut noticed is that he listed 2 other people... why those two hmmm? Sixth+Rikae+Nogrod= 3, there are 3 vampires on the lose.... do the math, it could be by chance or it could be sixth attempt to hide his comrades, luckily nobody paid any attention to this post... except me...

I wouldn't read that too straightforwardly. Even though Sixth is relatively unexperienced (this is his second game I believe) I don't think he'd make such a naive mistake. I rather think that in his last game he found these two people smart and reasonable, which I don't wonder at all.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Maybe Durelin's the Shade? That was my first thought when I saw this post, although I can't think why the Shade would want to reveal themselves so early on... probably just banter, but it caught my eye.

Knowing Durelin's style I think that was pretty normal of her. Early on, when there's little to say, she likes making in-character posts. And this time her character just happens to be a slightly unpleasant person.... (no offense, Dury )

PS. Shasta: you should turn yourself invisible. If you don't know how to do it: go to your user cp, then go to options and there you should find an option of "turn to the invisible mode".

[Shastanis Althreduin]

...oh! Thanks, Thinlo, I'll get right on that.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Indeed. It might therefore be sensible for us not to leave our (stated) votes right up until the last minute. *Glares at Nogrod*

One could look at this differently as well. At least I think I acted reasonably by withholding my vote on Celuien - which I was going to make - as she was able to post her RL reasons for her incomplete reasoning on her vote which made me to back off from voting her. Sadly it came only twenty minutes before the deadline and so we were in too much a hurry there anyway.

Who would be confident in voting early, before everyone had have their chances to say their word on issues? The vampires...

We innocents care for us villagers staying alive and thence wish to wait for any information to the end to make our decisions with good grounds (RL excuses are another thing as one will have to leave when one will have to leave).

So please Spm, do focus on things that really matter... I mean it's quite frustrating when people make points on poor grounds (and Roa as well...). Come on and be a little more serious! We do not win this game by making postures of being witty but by actually picking up the wolves / vampires.

Making claims that do not make any sense don't further our cause but hinder it. But the vampires would love to do that and would cewlebrate with anyone who were lured by them.

So think people, think yourselves. Why would someone do something?

After all, the Vampires cannot actually vote. They can only pretend to, so the strategic value of last minute voting (for innocents) is somewhat lessened.

That is true. The strategic value is lessened, to be sure. But aren't you talking here like a Vampire from who's standpoint there is not so much "strategic value" any more? To me as an innocent there is everything to win and lose as we try to get the vampires and prevent the lynching of innocents. That's why any concerned innocent wishes to stay on as long as possible and try to make the difference as I tried yesterDay, unsuccesfully though, with trying to save Celuien...

So voting early is the mark of an innocent? No way Mr. Pan-man! Quite the opposite. You are intelligent enought to see that so why do you try to make the opposite point? Just asking...

And, despite just having done it myself, I am not too happy with the way you are seeking to make accusations by implication, without naming names.

You're just marvellous... "I have done this but it actually makes X look pretty bad..." And to make it even more incredible, you comfortably do not mention the exact thing your sentence refers to... I can't defend anything you imply without first knowing what you mean but that surely looks nice, "Hey he got a point!"

I'm just wishing to see that one...

----

But after all that I must say that Spm is not my main suspicion right now. He's pretty high on my list but anyhow I might wish to see some others lynched before him.

Rikae I'm pretty wary about as well as Gil (so much that I love his new style!). And the newbie-stauts notwithstanding Shasta looks pretty suspicious too...

And all those not stating their votes yesterDay as well... I'll come back to them later as I have time for it...

And Legate... I would not stress his "niceness" as some here have done, but his carefulness. A vampire would love to look agreeable to everyone and the innocents need to do the suspecting and thence being controversial... He is doing the opposite and thence my doubts.

And well, lots of doubts... Durelin, Glirdy, Sleepy... you name it. Maybe, I hope, I have time to make some points on these sneakers later toDay. But now I think Lommy wishes to get a word in...

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

It might be worth noting that Di's stated vote came in before Nogrod set out his theory ...

Yes... I didn't mean to say that it was Nogrod's post which inclined me to vote for him. I know Nogrod's inclination to get rid of quiet players, it's something he's always been outspoken about. I was a bit upset to see Brinn die because I'd been betting on a Nogrod or a SpM-type player being off'ed. But her death does seem to point to a vamp(ires) who likes to keep an active village...cave.... Not the most astounding reason to vote, but better at least than my virtual einee-meenie-minie-moe reason to vote for Legate yesterDay.

Anywho, excuse my annoyed tone. I'm annoyed with my own forced lack of participation and not anyone for suspecting me. I just have this helpless feeling that everything I say or don't say is going to be utterly suspicious and I'm shooting myself in the foot. But I'm grabbing 15 minutes to try keeping up, at least. Brinn's death is the most solid bit of evidence as to Vampiric thought at the moment.

[Gil-Galad]

I'm getting mixed emotions right now.. alot of "I love the new gil, but i think i might lynch him off" it makes me feel that no matter what i do, people always want to lynch me....


but i will not be on till deadline probably... i must send my vote in now... too me Shasta's vote on me could be either one of Spite(i brought some attention to him this day)

i still beleive in the shasta/legate pair... if one of them is the vampire then the other has better chance of being one too... and after looking over both of hte peoples posts... i must say that Legate, if innocent, has a better rate of helping us out

so...

my vote sent in will be for ++Shasta

if Shasta = innocent, then Legate = innocent
if Shasta = vampire, then Legate = vampire


EDIT: this isn't a spite vote, it is merely the only way that i can figure out to solve this conundrum of the two at this moment

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta rolled his eyes.

"You know, of the two of us, I think Gil has been acting more suspicious. All I did was forget to put someone's name on a list of suspected people, and suddenly I'm a vampire, apparently. I guess that's what I get for trying to be helpful."

He shrugged. "I'm still voting for Gil."