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10-11-2005, 11:30 AM | #1161 |
Everlasting Whiteness
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Poor old Pip, looks like he's off today no matter what!
++HAMA Is my vote though. To try and get people into doing this tomorrow. I'm not sure how the guy made it this far, especially with some of the competition he had! I mean, what did he really do? So he made Aragorn put down his sword - oh, wait no that was actually Gandalf. Well that's his claim to fame gone - imposter! Throw him off the island in disgrace!
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10-11-2005, 12:09 PM | #1162 | ||
Byronic Brand
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Quote:
Quote:
Really, I've come round to Saucie's view on this. (Shock horror!) Sardonic but true...
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10-11-2005, 12:36 PM | #1163 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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--pipin
++hama
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10-11-2005, 03:24 PM | #1164 |
Laconic Loreman
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Pippin- 7
Hama- 4 Gimli- 3 I think it's safe to say that Merry has secured a spot in the final, with very little time left in voting, I'd say Gimli's a lock too.
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10-11-2005, 03:25 PM | #1165 |
Everlasting Whiteness
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Anguirel I'm sorry but I truly don't understand your last post. I've been puzzling over it and just can't work out what it is you are saying! Help?
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10-11-2005, 03:36 PM | #1166 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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With that, Pippin takes a most graceful exit (after a few pints) and went straight to the inn on the boat.
With that, we have reached the finale! What we all (or atleast I have) been waiting for what started out with this long list: Quote:
Dwarf- Gimli Hobbit- Merry Man- Hama Here is a reminder on how this will go... Quote:
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10-11-2005, 03:43 PM | #1167 |
Energetic Essence
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Wow!!!! This is going to be tough. At least one of my favorites is in there, but hey all deserve to win in some way. I'm going to have to think about this and get back to you on my vote......
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10-11-2005, 03:49 PM | #1168 | |
Blithe Spirit
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Quote:
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10-11-2005, 03:58 PM | #1169 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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When all others fled the battlefield and withdrew into the caves this guy stood firm at the hornburg. HE contfronted the Uruk-hai at the gate almost single-handedly. He was the best warrior in the entire land of Rohan, and gave his life for his country, yet not even Mandos could keep him, and he is back. Therfore he deserves the title of the ulitmate Lord of the Rings survivor.
++HAma Last edited by arcticstorm; 10-11-2005 at 03:59 PM. Reason: forgot to post my vote |
10-11-2005, 04:11 PM | #1170 | |
Maundering Mage
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Quote:
Hama is the underdog and nobody saw him making it this far, but WE DID IT BABY!!! The underdog winning the competition makes everybody feel good, except for the loosers but this is about the audience. Plus Hama has a wife and family that could live a long time on the weath acquired from winning this money. Whereas Gimli is a dwarf and has no such need for money and Merry lives in the shire where bringing in such money from foreign parts will be looked down upon with contempt and suspicion. Plus after such a ravaging war on Rohan their economy could use the little boost. ++HAMA
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10-11-2005, 04:11 PM | #1171 |
Odinic Wanderer
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aye support the door-ward of Medusel.
As said he was fighting most heroic at Hornburg, to be buried in a separate mound was too little a praise. Give him this one too. Plus he has the same name as the younger son of Helm Hammerhand ! (that is reason enough to vote for him) ++Háma |
10-11-2005, 04:37 PM | #1172 |
Energetic Essence
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++Merry
My favorite little Hobbit mad it this far, let's see if his friendship and trusting personality can see him through to the end. He's such a brave little Hobbit, and now that I think about it, he did get very little praise for wounding the Witch-King. He deserves this great honour to show his valour.
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10-11-2005, 04:43 PM | #1173 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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lets see....Hama is dead so hes a creep, Gimli is hitting on elf-women, so that leaves Merriadoc Brandybuck, even though he stole my MUSHROOM Pie, i can forgive him that little rascal, after all he did do alot and went bravely into battle at Pelenoor fields...hes a fiesty one
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10-11-2005, 05:45 PM | #1174 | |
Dead Serious
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I should like to submit that Hama is one of the true heroes of Middle-Earth.
There has been great discussion among those learned scholars who frequent the CbC discussions (no relation of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) that the experience given Aragorn upon the doorstep of Meduseld was instrumental in teaching him the proper humility when dealing with rules and regulations. I should like to submit that it was Hama, whose impeccable loyalty to Theoden is beyond doubt, who is responsible for that incident. Would Gandalf have had his companions disarm had Hama not required it? Of course not... Further examination of this incident will show that Hama DEFEATED Aragorn. That's right, folks, our humble doorwarden prevailed over the Heir of Isildur. Doesn't that tell you things about him? The only remaining event chronicled in the Lord of the Rings concerning Hama is that he fell at Helm's Deep. "He fell before the Gate" says the book. Many take that as a sign that Hama's contribution was insignificant, not worth recording in the Red Book. But I submit to you that the Red Book was written by the Hobbits, none of whom were present at Helm's Deep, and had never met him or had any reason to care for him (they were, after all, buddies of the defeated Aragorn). Although no evidence from the Lord of the Rings can be shown to directly prove Hama's very important contribution to the battle, I believe that the honour of his resting place ought to show something to this effect: Quote:
And so, I present my vote: ++Hama
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10-11-2005, 06:07 PM | #1175 |
Fluttering Enchantment
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I will vote for:
++Merry Cause he's so cute.
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10-12-2005, 01:24 AM | #1176 |
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Cute he may be, but has he been supplying the tribes with firewood?
Has he been cunningly preventing fratricidal Elf/Dwarf war? Is he a noted diamond smuggler? I think not. Ladies and gentlemen, take this chance to show your taste and quality. Vote for the only candidate remaining with a cogent personality. He may be short, but he's hardy and loyal; he keeps a mind to practicalities like food, shelter, and rest; truly ++GIMLI SON OF GLOIN, LORD OF AGLAROND has shown himself worthy to be...the Survivor! (All Elf-lovers should support Gimli too-he's the closest thing to an Elf left, which is quite sad really...)
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10-12-2005, 04:26 AM | #1177 |
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Hama is pointless. He couldn't even do his job when he was doorwarden - Gandalf got his staff inside, didn't he?
I like Merry, but I won't vote for a cute character. Cuteness is highly overrated. So that leaves ++GIMLI, SON OF GLOIN. As Anguirel has said, he is loyal, practical and the hardest working contestant remaining. And, he is a brilliant diplomat and visionary who forged friendship between Elves and Dwarves after millenia long conflict. As such, he deserves to win.
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10-12-2005, 05:05 AM | #1178 |
Laconic Loreman
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Votes so far are...
Hama- 4 Gimli- 2 Merry- 2
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10-12-2005, 05:33 AM | #1179 |
Illusionary Holbytla
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++Merry
This is one character who deserves some recognition. He's one of those people without whom nothing would go right, yet people seem intent on forgetting him anyway! He is the one who organized the conspiracy to make sure Frodo didn't do something stupid. He's the one who knew about the Old Forest and the path inside. If not for him, the hobbits and Strider would not have been alerted to the presence of the Black Riders in Bree. Then for a while he is just sort of in the background, but that isn't his fault that he's overshadowed by all these other high and mighty sorts! He can't help it that he's neither big nor particularly strong, but he does his best and does his part. He's one of those people who join the Fellowship purely because of his friendship with and loyalty to Frodo. At the Breaking of the Fellowship, he proves he can keep his head - he attempts to cut off as many arms and hands of the Orcs as he can before receiving his head wound. Of course he must recover from this before he can help very much, but he quickly catches on to Pippin's game and once they have escaped, once more proves his worth. Though overloooked in Rivendell, clearly he had not wasted his time. He had looked at maps and knew rather where they were. It was he and Pippin who met Treebeard - Treebeard who, due to their oft-overlookedness, didn't even know what a Hobbit was! Gandalf seems to be the only one who ever acknowledges his part in the breaking of Isengard. Then, Theoden doesn't even see how Merry can be of use in battle and so orders him to stay behind. Merry continues on, though, not in disloyalty but because of loyalty. He wanted to do his part to help, and he does, playing an all-important part in slaying the Witch-king, who had noticed him as little more than a worm in the mud. Even after that, no one notices him! He has to drag himself up into the city, despite being injured and sick. Afterwards, Frodo and Sam get all this praise - "Praise them with great praise!" But once more, Merry is horribly overlooked. All he ever receives in reward is a little horn. For once, Merry deserves some recognition. He should be the sole survivor. Besides... he's the character who's most like me! (Well... half the time. The other half it's Frodo, but that's irrelevant. ) |
10-12-2005, 05:47 AM | #1180 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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++gimly.
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10-12-2005, 06:34 AM | #1181 | |
Blithe Spirit
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The question to ask yourself here is, are you a Cavalier or a Roundhead?
Do you lean towards lace, fine wine, polished banter and skilled swordplay, or starched linen, stern looks and dismal meals taken in joyless silence? Speaking as an unabashed, unashamed Cavalier, this is not the finale I'd hoped for. The New Model Army of Roundheads among the voters have wreaked their dour puritan vengeance on most of our dashing and glamorous contestants. Who remains who can bring a little colourful splash of gallantry to the winner's podium? Not Hama. Like that dreary Orkney fisherman I mentioned earlier (dullest ever winner of Big Brother) he is the very model of a Roundhead - worthy, earnest and oh so NOT who you'd like to be sat next to at a dinner party. Gimli - well, a possible. He is a worshipper at the golden shrine of the glamorous Galadriel, he loved bright shiny things, such as the Glittering Caves. And my Survivior ally Anguirel wants him to win. But then there is Merry. Lordly, folk called him, meaning nothing but good. He has panache, he has courage, he was not too proud to sit behind a woman and he was by far the coolest hobbit in the Scouring of the Shire chapter. A man of principle but also of decisive and practical action: Quote:
++MERRY PS There was a part of me that just wanted to wait to see what Mormegil would do and then do the precise opposite. But I am bigger than that.
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10-12-2005, 06:45 AM | #1182 |
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Lalaith, I too am a firm Cavalier. I believe Gimli qualifies as one, in the end.
Looks aren't everything. Charles II himself admitted "God's fish, I am an ugly fellow!" What matters is culture, chivalry, courtesy, wit. Gimli possesses these in unusual abundance. He sings the song of Durin. He gallantly requests three of Galadriel's hairs; in the game of wooing he is strides ahead of the cold, formal Aragorn, and only slightly behind Faramir. He knows the chivalrous choice is to rescue Merry and Pippin. He declines to sing of the East, showing great tact. Once in Rohan, he behaves with proper hauteur but is not too strict about grudges. He saves Eomer's life despite their quarrel. He takes part in a "joust" with Master Elf. He conquers his fears and passes the Paths of the Dead with supreme knightly courage. And then there is his final, glorious, romantic altercation with Eomer- (paraphrasing) "You have chosen the evening. But I prefer the morning, and I fear it may soon pass." Well, it did, in the person of Lady Galadriel, but Gimli's still here, and I exhort that you vote for him. Sir Gimli-knight, gallant, cavalier, paragon of chivalry and oldie courtesie!
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10-12-2005, 07:09 AM | #1183 |
Maundering Mage
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I wouldn't say Gimli conquered the paths of the dead. More accurate would be to say that he was so shamed that he was more or less forced to do it. And all this talk of Gimli forging Elf/Dwarf relationships is a misrepresentation of the actual facts. The truth is, it was Galadriel that began the reforging and Gimli was simply the witless dwarf who was caught under her enchantment
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10-12-2005, 07:14 AM | #1184 |
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I didn't say he conquered the Paths of the Dead either. I said he conquered his fears, a far more important achievement. Who showed the greater courage-Aragorn, who knew he could not be touched, or Gimli, who had no such assurance?
And your comment about Galadriel is rather rich in light of your vote for her, driving her off the island. Besides, it was clearly Gimli who took the initiative in requesting the hairs and in becoming a battle brother of Legolas. Since Legolas stayed into the Fourth Age and Galadriel didn't, this friendship did far more for Elf-Dwarf harmony than any manipulation you can attribute to Galadriel.
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10-12-2005, 07:58 AM | #1185 |
Blithe Spirit
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I will not dispute you, Anguirel, over Gimli's virtues - they make him a very worthy runner-up.
But surely Merry, whose very name is the personification of this contest's arena of Mirth, is a more deserving overall champion. Vote for the Laughing Cavalier!
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10-12-2005, 08:16 AM | #1186 |
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The problem with Merry as Cavalier is he lacks the crucial element of Royalist romanticism. Namely, his ending is prosaic but happy.
Gimli, on the other hand, ends up following a strange people in resignation and defeat in pursuit of a final sight of an unattainable love. Sigh. Hence, Gimli is the Cavalier, Merry the burlesque Restoration hero. And I know which one I inevitably prefer. If you profess Romanticism, if you are caught into Tolkien because of the loss, the Long Defeat, the gallant but helpless defiance and delaying of the inevitable with unimpeachable bravery...if you surge with excitement at "he died with the Dawn in his eyes..." Then Gimli is your man, or rather Dwarf. Vote accordingly! EDIT: Note for reader's interest-the man portrayed in the painting "The Laughing Cavalier" is neither laughing nor a Cavalier! It's rather like the Holy Roman Empire...
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Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso Last edited by Anguirel; 10-12-2005 at 08:33 AM. |
10-12-2005, 08:28 AM | #1187 |
Shadow of the Past
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++Gimli
For being a Cavalier! And Anguirel has convinced me. |
10-12-2005, 08:35 AM | #1188 | |
Blithe Spirit
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Ok, I'm talking mostly to the girls now.
What does Gimli actually *do* for his beloved lady? How exactly does he serve her, in any practical sense? He's all talk and no trousers. We all know the type. Compare this to Merry: Quote:
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10-12-2005, 08:35 AM | #1189 | |
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Voting update
Hama-4
Merry-4 Gimli-4 Hmmm. It's, er, quite close... EDIT: Lalaith, you skirted the Romanticism point! Anyway, because Gimli carries Galadriel's favour, all his subsequent valiant deeds count as in her service-and are in her service, as they are in the service of all the Free Peoples. Galadriel's message sent after Gimli, calling him Lockbearer, shows she is aware and appreciative of his valour. Note his joyous reaction to this. In more practical tems, Gimli twice challenges the far larger and probably more powerful Eomer over Galadriel's beauty and virtue, defending her from any insult. Let me sum up this dutiful service- Quote:
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Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso Last edited by Anguirel; 10-12-2005 at 08:45 AM. |
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10-12-2005, 08:47 AM | #1190 | |
Maundering Mage
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Quote:
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10-12-2005, 08:56 AM | #1191 | |
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Quote:
We know nothing *from the book* of Hama's family. As one of the King's closest guards and retainers, he was probably a huscarl of the royal household, forbidden to marry until estates were bestowed upon him. Therefore his loyalty was foremost to his King; and he carried this out pretty ineptly, allowing Wormtongue to gain ascendancy over Theoden through his lack of gumption, and when rescuers arrived trying to bar them from entry and remove their means of defence! Lucky he got the chop; Roundhead Hama is certainly a liability, and probably a dastardly Cromwellian Republican as well!
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10-12-2005, 09:59 AM | #1192 |
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It is true a family man is good in some respects, but here in Survivor, it's dog-eat-dog. You can't be burdened by wife and children*! And in this competition, the hardiest will endure, so:
++Gimli Get it won! *Disclaimer: This statement serves only for this competition. I do not bear any ill will towards wives, kids, families, husbands, parents, or any such familial term. Nor do I think such ties are burdening, but rather enjoyable. Any offense to the above statement will be hereby disregarded, due to the fact that said statement was in jest and this disclaimer says that I can disregard any complaints.
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10-12-2005, 10:19 AM | #1193 |
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Gurthang, my fellow extra-terrestial blade, you've made the right decision!
Vote for the Romantic Dwarf! The Axing Cavalier! The Lord of the Glittering Caves! The Champion of the Lady of the Golden Wood! The unbidden guest who proved most welcome! Vote Gimli!
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10-12-2005, 10:19 AM | #1194 | |
Illusionary Holbytla
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Quote:
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10-12-2005, 10:47 AM | #1195 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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For my money, it should be personality and character that win this game. Unfortunately, as is often the way in Reality shows, most of the really great personalities have already been voted off.
But there is one ... Let's look at the remaining trio: First, Hama: Quote:
What about Gimli? Yes, he was brave and loyal to the Quest. He has a certain sense of humour. And he struck up an unlikely friendship with Legolas. But only after the two had been together for a long time. His natural instinct, and the one which I feel that we must judge him on, is to tow the line and bear the traditional and irrational grudge which Dwarves hold againt Elves. Yes, it's reciprocated, but "an eye for an eye" is hardly an excuse (*glares at most fellow voters* ). And while the oft repeated complaint that Gimli and Legolas have no character is generally over-stated, there is, sad to say, some truth to it. Of all the principal characters, we learn the least of these two. And then there are Gimli's less attractive qualities. He is grim, dour, often irritable and rather "scratchy". I am afraid that he is hardly Mister Personality. And, finally, I come to Merry. Like others of his race, a purveyor of fine food, fine wine and fine pipeweed, Merry is someone who dispays a great love for life and all it has for offer. Undoubtedly as brave and loyal as Gimli, if not more so (given that the Dwarf has the advantage of physical stature and training over him), but with an infinately greater personality. A loyal friend, particularly to Frodo and Pippin, he set out on the Quest for the Ring out of friendship without knowing what lay ahead of him, but knowing that, whatever it was, it was grim and fearful. He masterminded the "conspiracy" which was unmasked at Crickhollow and went on to display great intelligence and practicality throughout the Quest (skills which he has put to great use on the Island, I might add - it was he who first mapped the Island and charted its flora and fauna so that the contestants might supplement their meagre rations from its natural bounty). And, of course, he participated in the greatest battle of the War of the Ring and played a central role in bringing down the Enemy's most powerful and dreaded Captain, almost at the cost of his life. Merry also showed that he could learn from his experiences, putting that which he had learned on the Quest to good use in organising the rebellion against Sharkey's men in the Scouring of the Shire. Is it any wonder that, after all this, he settled down with his wife and children? Yet he did not rest. He served his people dutifully as Master of Buckland and then again showed his adventurous spirit by particpating in this show. Need I go on? The only really deserving winner out of the three that are left. I give you ... ++MERIADOC BRANDYBUCK
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10-12-2005, 10:48 AM | #1196 | |
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Quote:
He- -provides someone readers can identify with when in the company of the perfect Aragorn and Legolas -has pithy and intelligent wit, of the Tolkien, not PJ, sort -plays at courtly love a damn sight better than the rest of the Fellowship put together -saves Eomer twice and Aragorn once at Helm's Deep -beats Legolas by an Orc -is, on the contrary, a sardonic character, one of the few who consistently has the spirit to see the dark humour in impossible situations -sings and dances -says Barak Khazad, Khazad Aimenu! on numerous occasions, thereby displaying the essential, compelling quality of Dwarvendom-axing -unlike cissy little hero-Hobbits and would-be-King Men, doesn't sully himself by effecting a plot unduly. Basically-along with Legolas-he has the dignity to stay peripheral. Let me put it, Firefoot, in an analogy you'll sympathise with. If LOTR is an RP, Gimli's player shows an excellent style, lightens tension, engrosses the reader, while at the same time not domineering the storyline. Rather like your Orc pair in Red Flows The Sirannon. This is Gimli's purpose. He may not defeat Sauron or kill the Witch King, but he is a gripping and vital adornment to the books, and I would regret his omission from them far more than I would regret the passing of Meriadoc-AKA Yet Another Perfect Hobbit Hero... Vote for the adornment of the books, the cynosure of earthy wit! Vote Gimli!
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10-12-2005, 11:00 AM | #1197 | ||
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It's his scratchiness that makes him endearing, old chap! You have this vitally important world-saving quest. On it is a po-faced Wizard, a pompous man, an angsty man, two Hobbits who start vaguely amusing but sober up, two Hobbits who start depressed and get more so, and an Elf without flaws. And you have Gimli. Gimli has the courage to stand up to the consensus. To poke fun at dire misfortune. And yet also to behave with gravitas when demanded. Whenever Aragorn or Gimli get too irritating, earthy Gimli takes them down a peg, whether by teasing the stiff necks of the Elves, or by insisting on a decent rest. He insists on following Merry and Pippin, and when he is reunited with them, he is gruff and mock-outraged. Gimli is a typical, British, stiff-upper lip, keep on going, pessimistic Dwarf. For fans of Narnia, he serves the Puddleglum role. For fans of Bored of the Rings, I give you this splendid line- Quote:
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10-12-2005, 11:07 AM | #1198 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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Quote:
But I'm not going to fight with you, Ang. Not any more. I have stated my view and I stand by it. And really, that's what this is (and always should have been) all about. People's own views ...
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10-12-2005, 11:10 AM | #1199 |
Corpus Cacophonous
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Actually, I will add one more thing and leave it at that. Merry is the only one of the remaining contestants who wrote a book!
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10-12-2005, 11:13 AM | #1200 |
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Really, Saucie, where's your spirit? I was ready for a good old punch-up!
My views are that Gimli's personality, whether crotchety or courteous, outclasses Merry's responsible niceness. He's the epitome, Saucie, of the "nice but dull" characters you have crusaded against. But you're not going to do the same to him, because he's a blimming chirpy Hobbit gentleman, and you bear him sentimental attachment. That be the truth o' it! That's my view. Let's see if the voters of the Downs agree, and turn out to support the beleaguered Dwarf stalwart, and (say it with me, Lalaith...) Cavalier! EDIT: Gimli Gloinsson's On the Sparkliness of Diamonds won the Erebor Booker Prize. Its Khuzdul language and ill-received Sindarin translation by L. Thranduillion, however, limited its audience and it never made it into the record of the Red Book... Votes: Hama 4 Merry 5 Gimli 5 Vote for Gimli, literary genius!
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Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso Last edited by Anguirel; 10-12-2005 at 11:17 AM. |
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