WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Greenie (where is she anyway?)

She's at her mom's summer cabin and has very bad access to the net - and probably doesn't care too much any more.

But talking of which... unless we have Greenie's spy-reveal contested we just need to stick with Nerwen being not a mutineer. But I'd bet she could be a co-conspie... (well, it seems I'd bet that for everyone of you...)

Even if you call me a co-conspie, I think I need to say this: if there is a real spy still alive somewhere with even one living innocent's name, you should really consider coming forwards. We can't trust Nerwen for ever if Greenie was an impostor and soon even one known innocent might make the difference (in case we were going to lynch her/him). But your call to be sure.

The sad possibility is that Greenie was a co-conspie and got it right naming a mutineer-Nerwen as the innocent (a blind shot but amazingly well made!) and the real spy has been killed or lynched without us knownig anything. Although I think that ghosted seer would have said a word or two about the matter already, so I'm somewhat confident that is not the case.

Also Gwath is not a mutineer as he was so heavily suspected by Rikae - the proven hunter - and the mutineers wouldn't have tried to get her killed during the Night just because of that.

Also I strongly suspect thet one of the pair Lommy - Mac is a mutineer but which one? I'm leaning towards Mac at this point but can't really be too sure. Lommy could fool us.

I suspect Mith a lot right now. A lot. Like I did in the beginning.

Izzy's and Nerwen's turn-arounds might even speak good for them; afraid of losing the ranger they turned on their heels and retracted. I mean, if they (either of them) were mutineers with Mac why should they have voted for him in the first place - and so early as they had an opportunity to come back later in the Day? Hard to say...

Shasta's vote for Lommy directly after Mac's "revealment" is also understandable.

But with all the three I must say there is something that bothers me. It looks like they hadn't read the discussion and how things evolved... or then they used that possible interpretation as something to hide their more uglier motives?

I mean Mac's "revelation" was just downright horrible. When he made it he was having 5 votes with only Gwath having one vote besides him (and clearly Gwath is a no lynch candidate right here). So a last desperate option that did pay off to the amazement of Mac himself even? And as I said already yesterDay, he managed not to point the most obvious reason why people should not lynch him as a ranger which any ranger would have voiced in that situation...

But I do have problems with Lommy as well... It was just a bit too neat she would only now "reveal" she was the "true ranger". A bit too convenient a timing! Although there is this from yesterDay eg. long before Lommy "revealed":

Originally Posted by Lommy

If he's the ranger then it's my mistake and you are all welcome to neg-rep me. But after the discussion after his reveal it should be obvious to others than me too that he's not.

Which does look like something the real ranger might write...

[Nogrod]

Good night and good luck you silent pirates...

[Gwathagor]

Huh. Obviously, Mac's "reveal" yesterDay was a last ditch effort to save himself from the lynch, and I think on that basis that we can dismiss the possibility that he is the ranger. In that regard he is clearly telling the truth. THe tricky part, in my mind, is that both an innocent and a mutineer would have equal reason to try anything to stay alive - so which is Mac? Lommy's posthumous ranger reveal doesn't help me that much either, since she could also go either way.

I guess Mac could also be a cobbler just trying to distract us at this point, but my big question is - and I suppose this also applies to the issue of whether he's evil or not - why would an evil player, particularly a cobbler, who had convinced the village that he was the ranger proceed to immediately admit that he was not? That kind of relinquishing of power gained reminds of George Washington and Cinncinnatus, and looks almost innocent. A wolf could conceivably do something like that, but a cobbler certainly wouldn't. There would be nothing to gain, as far as I can see.

So we can rule out that Mac is a cobbler, just as we can rule out that he is a ranger (IMO). It's going to take some further reading for me to decide whether he's innocent or a mutineer though. I'll try to come back after dinner.

[Boromir88]

Problem is, unless there's a convincing case against someone else, I'm not sure if the innocents can take the chance of leaving him alive. But maybe that's the plan....~Inziladun

Exactly, it'd be a huge mistake to not lynch Mac. Let's assume worst case 3 wolves, and Mac is a cobbler, he's lynched and it's over. If he's a wolf there's still some game left. And of course that is worst case...who knows what situation we are in? Mac is a baddie (about to put my own nail in his coffin in a bit ) and it would be a major blunder if he's not lynched.

But first...

I suspect Mith a lot right now. A lot. Like I did in the beginning.~Nogrod

Care to say why? I mean I spent a good half a post saying she's definitely not a mutineer, and there is a slight chance of maybe a co-conspirator. That's your response. You suspect her "A lot." I do suppose you have a good reason? I'd imagine you could give a bit more than "A lot."

Are you serious? That I had a "very bad" feeling about Kath was one of the two reasons? *shakes head*~Mac

It was everything you said about Kath. You went along with the suspicion by casting the 4th (and final) vote for her, but just said you had a feeling it was going to be a bad choice. You can't even call what you did a flip-flop, it was the a massive contradiction right within your vote post..."I don't like this...hmm ok ++Kath" Then moments later, "oh wait...--Kath, ++Izzy"

So, now Mac says he's not really the Ranger, but he's an ordo, who faked being a ranger because he knew Lommy was a mutineer. It may look crazy, why didn't he just stick with the Ranger defense, no one said otherwise?

But just realize the ingenuity of his defense...I seriously do give him props for creating one like this. He obviously has to answer if he really is the Ranger, why he would still be alive, so even if he managed to get another day because of the Ranger claim, he painted himself into dead meat the next day once he didn't show up dead. Well, there goes trying to keep up the Ranger act.

Now maybe he can come in and say..."Ahh they are setting me up!" But this would be full of holes too, as Inziladun accurately pointed out the previous day the Ranger can't defend xemself. Hmm, risk going after someone else, and having a blocked kill, just so you can "set up" the ranger for the next day, or simply kill a Ranger who can't protect xemself at night? You take out the Ranger at night, because then you leave the village with no more gifteds and any band of mutineers can drum up some quick case to lynch an innocent, bingo-bango, and they're done. So, that defense is out the window for a wolf-Mac.

He really took the only escape that was possible, and that he is an ordo, who said he was the Ranger, only because he was entirely sure of Lommy's mutineering...and if the real Ranger revealed oh well. It looked pretty "out there" but really it's the only choice he has left, as to why he's still alive after supposedly being the Ranger. It's clever, but there are so many holes in this thing.

-The wolves would somehow have to figure out that Mac really wasn't the Ranger. How they would do that after Mac says "don't kill me I'm the Ranger" can someone tell me?

-Now I said I can't be too critical of Mac, because as an ordo, I've considered doing the same thing...that is faking a claim as a gifted so a real gifted can stay alive longer. The problem is, at most as an ordo I will hint and try to look gifted, even if I'm about to be lynched as an ordo, I would never claim to be a gifted. And Mac suggesting that as ordo he actually did this, and having the "Oh well if the real Ranger reveals, who cares?" reaction...ya right.

The big problem with this defense, is say Mac's actually is an ordo, and he says "I'm the Ranger" to avoid a lynch, and turn the tables on your attacker who you know for some reason is a mutineer. To explain the gynormous hole in this logic, I will have to set up a scenario. I really do think Lommy is the Ranger, but I'm just saying "what if" to blow apart Mac's logic.

Alright, so Mac is actually an ordo, and he 100% believes Lommy is a mutineer, whether she is or not, no one knows, but Mac is sure of it. Let's say that I'm the actual Ranger then.

Once Mac says "I'm the Ranger" to save his skin, and "vote Lommy, because now I know she's a wolf." You do realize that in this scenario, if I'm the real Ranger (or anyone else for that matter), you'd be the one who would wind up getting lynched, not Lommy. Because once I decide to step out and say...uh wait a second Mac, no you're not, the village isn't going to listen to you and lynch Lommy, they're going to lynch you! You're entire logic that you were an ordo, claiming to be a ranger, just so you could lynch a mutineer Lommy is full of gaping holes. And you are a wise enough player to know if you really are an ordo that logic you laid out this morning, would not work in the least bit.

So, then interesting enough as Mac has pointed out there was a shift in the village targets. Now at first I believed it may have been because by me not-believing in Mac's Ranger claim, the wolves fell in and thought I was the actual Ranger.

However, I realize now (and I hate to turn on the pessimism switch here) it's probably more likely Mac has definitely one, and maybe 2 partners left, and they are hoping there is a cobbler or two alive. By killing me, they get rid of a sure vote for Mac, because there was no way I was going to buy any of his balogna if he appeared alive the next day. So they killed a sure vote for him, and he's pretty much accepted his fate, but if there is a cobbler left, and he's got a couple mutineers he is hoping that will be enough to not be lynched and make it game, set, match, or pretty much game, set, match.

[Inziladun]

Eh. Go ahead and string Mac up, mates. You know you'll feel better.
Unfortunately, I fear that won't be enough as things now stand, as you'll still likely be dealing with at least one mutineer. The ranks of the good guys are getting a bit thin. But you never know: I still have hope it'll work out.
Mith blew off my questioning her about the Gwath vote, but she did vote for Mac. Only because she figured it was a done deal, and everyone would go after him anyway? I wouldn't think she could afford the appearance of another throwaway vote, so I could see her voting him even if she was a fellow mutineer.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Once Mac says "I'm the Ranger" to save his skin, and "vote Lommy, because now I know she's a wolf." You do realize that in this scenario, if I'm the real Ranger (or anyone else for that matter), you'd be the one who would wind up getting lynched, not Lommy. Because once I decide to step out and say...uh wait a second Mac, no you're not, the village isn't going to listen to you and lynch Lommy, they're going to lynch you! You're entire logic that you were an ordo, claiming to be a ranger, just so you could lynch a mutineer Lommy is full of gaping holes. And you are a wise enough player to know if you really are an ordo that logic you laid out this morning, would not work in the least bit.

On the whole, this post made sense but - could you run this part by me again? If what you're saying is true, then it seems like Mac's false ranger claim (it's clearly false, regardless of his alignment) would be equally risky whether he's a wolf or an ordo and so the weakness of that ploy wouldn't really have any bearing on the issue of determining his guilt or innocence. Maybe the facade was full of holes, but I don't see how that can tell us anything about his alignment. Either way, he was desparate and about to be lynched anyway.

Am I totally missing your point?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Exactly, it'd be a huge mistake to not lynch Mac. Let's assume worst case 3 wolves, and Mac is a cobbler, he's lynched and it's over.

Maybe this is totally academic, but I think you're wrong here. I'm pretty sure that a cobbler is the only thing that Mac is surely not. He's definitely either mutineer or ordo. Not that it really makes much of a difference, since Mac is all but lynched already with 3 votes.

[Gwathagor]

*just notices sally's second to last post*

Hey, WHAAAT?

Now there's a cobbler if I've ever seen one. Probably trying to draw attention away from Mac.

[Gwathagor]

Out of curiosity - has anyone considered trying to lynch a ghost? I've been gone for the past couple of days, so I don't really know what's happened, but maybe there's a ghost whose total demise could give us some very helpful certainty. Otherwise it's just going to be total guesswork right until the end and as right as we think we might be about someone's guilt or innocence, we'll never know for sure. Am I the only one who thinks that this might be a good idea?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

No, you're not, Gwath, but I'm thinking it might be a better idea to resolve the Mac situation first.

[Nerwen]

++Macalaure

For reasons stated previously.

X'd with Gwath and Shasta.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Out of curiosity - has anyone considered trying to lynch a ghost? I've been gone for the past couple of days, so I don't really know what's happened, but maybe there's a ghost whose total demise could give us some very helpful certainty. Otherwise it's just going to be total guesswork right until the end and as right as we think we might be about someone's guilt or innocence, we'll never know for sure. Am I the only one who thinks that this might be a good idea?

If there's three wolves left, that's suicidal.

Besides, Sally's confessed to being a baddy. She might not be a wolf, though... but then again she might. I'm sure she's trying to get us to double-kill her, either way.

[Nerwen]

If we survive toDay, we'll know at least two wolves are down.

[Gwathagor]

What about these ghosts, anyway? I want to take a closer look at the ones that have continued to be involved after their deaths, since I that takes a lot of dedication and almost certainly in some of the cases indicates some kind of ulterior motive. But which ones - ?

Anyway, I actually have to go watch Foyle's War now. I am willing to agree to Mac's lynch, but I would be very interesting in enacting a second lynch one one of our ghosts toMorrow.

Ah, feeling scattered, sorry - have to run.

++Mac

[Isabellkya]

Nog, Nerwen and I were the only ones to change our votes from Mac to Lommy.

No Zil, that was not in response to that quote. It was in response to something else that she said.

Nice try though.


No, I don't believe Greenie's claim and the subsequent assumed innocence of Nerwen.

Greenie would do something like that. Along with Nerwen's following behavior, I really doubt she is the seer.

As I stated previously - Nerwen isn't acting like an innocent, nor anywhere near someone whom is in the realm of a known innocent. She isn't being thoughtful with her votes and her reasonings.

She seems to have only named me a Cobbler or a Mutie - because I called her out first. Defensive reaction in that manner - is suspicious. Suspecting someone only because they suspect you first? Uhh yeah.


X'd with Nerwen x2, and Gwath.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

What about these ghosts, anyway? I want to take a closer look at the ones that have continued to be involved after their deaths, since I that takes a lot of dedication and almost certainly in some of the cases indicates some kind of ulterior motive. But which ones - ?

I believe Boro, Nogrod and I were all night-killed, so I think it would mostly be a waste. Nogrod is, I think, the only active ghost there could legitimately be some doubt about. And Lommy, I suppose. I realize I'm just a powerless voice in the darkness here, but I don't think you can afford to chase the ghosts this close to the end.
As to why I'm still here, I'm interested in this game and I want to see it to the end, that's all. It's the weekend, too. So unless I come down with the nasty virus that's been plaguing my daughter, I plan to be around the next day as well.

[Macalaure]

Gah, almost everytime I get lynched it's because RL gets in the way and I can't be there to defend myself.

I guess now it's decided. At least I will still be able to contribute as a ghost, and maybe some will even listen to me.

[Isabellkya]

Vote time.

++Nerwen

[Macalaure]

Too tired right now to properly refute anything.

Boro, what you say about my Kath-vote makes no sense. It seriously doesn't.

If I really was a wolf, I'd gladly accept your props, Boro.

I think the bottom line is what Gwath said - what I did would have as much holes if I was a wolf than in reality. You're biased, Boro, because you can't get the idea out of your head that Lommy is innocent. But I understand that, it's the default reaction for any werewolf player to lynch somebody who presents them a story like mine. Just look what everyone else did (except Izzy, but she's.... let's say unique). You merely backed it up with theory.

I have to give props in turn to Nog, Inzy, and Gwath for considering what I said could be true. Actually, I'm considering to remove Gwath from my high suspicion. He's been pretty sensible since he came back. (Then again, he kept on harping on the double kill, which is indeed a bad idea at this point.) Of course, with my recent doubt of Eonwe, this leaves me with 0 wolves. I haven't checked the actual numbers, but I'm sure we have at least one more day. I'll make up my mind about the baddies again and try to help you with whatever I will come up with.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I believe Boro, Nogrod and I were all night-killed, so I think it would mostly be a waste.

Nogrod was picked by the hunter.

[Nerwen]

Izzy, sweetheart, have some common sense.

It's perfectly reasonable for me to think you're a baddie when you've been fixated on me ever since Greenie named me innocent. (There are other things, e.g. your behaviour to Rikae after her Hunter-reveal.)

Wolves are less likely to go all out after a semi-known innocent, because it brings them out into the open, and because they can kill at Night anyway. Besides, for a cobbler who doesn't have a good idea of who the wolves are, someone like me is the only safe vote.

Ergo, you're probably a cobbler. However, I could be wrong: you might be a mutineer trying to look like one... I've played that game myself.

Now quiet. We're lynching Mac toDay. I really don't think you're going to swing it my way.

EDIT: X'd with Mac.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I haven't checked the actual numbers, but I'm sure we have at least one more day. I'll make up my mind about the baddies again and try to help you with whatever I will come up with.

Depends on how many wolves are left. If you are innocent and there's three wolves... game over.

Unfortunately, in that case you've basically set things up so we can't very well not lynch you.

[Isabellkya]

Oh boy are you wrong.

But nice try on the half-effort.

[Brinniel]

Deadline. I think it's quite obvious who's to be lynched next.

[Brinniel]

No narration yet here, but I did finish Night 6.

-----------

The Living:

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey


The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner ~ cannon fodder
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper


Night 8 has begun. You know what to do.

[Brinniel]

Three and a half hours late...but now it's Day 8. I won't even try to do any narrations tonight considering I'm slightly drunk (but legal). (*wonders how she will survive getting up at 7:30am to work*)

Oh btw, Mith is dead.

----------------


The Living:

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey


The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner ~ cannon fodder
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook


Day 8 has begun. Talk, talk, talk....everyone (including all you ghosts).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So we're down to five; Izzy, Eonwe, Nerwen, Gwath, and myself.

I'm removing myself (I know I'm innocent) and Nerwen (no one's come forward and challenged Greenie's seer claim, and I'm not sure I'd believe them now if they did) from my calculations entirely.

Gwath I'm unsure about. He was gone for too long for me to have a clear read on him, but was he gone during the no-kill?

Izzy and Eonwe have looked like cobblers to me for a while. I think it's time we consider lynching one of them; my preference is Eonwe as I think he's more likely to be a mutineer.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

And besides, if we lynch Eonwe, we'll still have a powder monkey! Arr.

[Nerwen]

I wonder how many villains (both kinds) are left? If it's three we're in trouble.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Izzy and Eonwe have looked like cobblers to me for a while. I think it's time we consider lynching one of them; my preference is Eonwe as I think he's more likely to be a mutineer.

More likely to be a mutineer than a cobbler, or just more likely to be a mutineer than Izzy?

I'm not hair-splitting. At this stage it makes a difference.

[Eönwë]

I'm hoping that one of Lommy or Mac was a mutineer (I think Mac), but can't be certain.

Well, to me it seems that one if not both of Gwath and Shasta are the mutineers. I know I'm not, and I'm hoping that Nerwen is indeed a non-mutineer (could be a co-conspirator, though), and I think Izzy is the co-conspirator.

Since Gwath hasn't voted for many Days, I hope the Cap'n wouldn't let him win like that as a mutineer, so I say we lynch Shasta and hope for the best. On another note- how has Shasta survived so long? Usually an innocent Shasta gets lynched or killed early on in the game... which makes him look even more suspicious to me.

If we haven't won by lynching Shasta, then I'd suggest we lynch Izzy toMorrow, as she could be a mutineer avoiding lynching by pretending to be a co-conspirator.

I also think it's way too late to be looking for a double lynch.


Also, if Greenie isn't the seer and you are the real seer, then I suggest you reveal toDay, otherwise we have no chance.

[Nerwen]

Well, looks like Shasta and Eönwë aren't in it together, anyway.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

so I say we lynch Shasta and hope for the best. On another note- how has Shasta survived so long? Usually an innocent Shasta gets lynched or killed early on in the game... which makes him look even more suspicious to me.

"Even more" suspicious? What was your case on Shasta before? I can't remember.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Also, if Greenie isn't the seer and you are the real seer, then I suggest you reveal toDay, otherwise we have no chance.

A bit eyebrow-raising, Eönwë. I rather think the real Seer would have revealed by now, don't you?

[Nerwen]

Come to think of it, it's surprising we haven't had a counter-claim yet. Izzy keeps hinting she's something, but then backs away when she's asked directly. I bet she's been planning to claim Seer-hood for Days now... but is too chicken to go all the way.

And yes, this is one situation in which I feel entirely justified in suspecting anyone who suspects me of being a wolf.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinn

Oh btw, Mith is dead.

Well, there went my wildcard... *sighs*

Okay the good news first: we have not more than two mutineers left - so we've managed to lynch at least two. Good.

In the best scenario we only have one left. In that case we would have ample chances of winning as I think we can somewhat rely on Nerwen being a non-mutineer and slight reasons to believe the same of Gwath.

So the lynchee should be probably picked from the trio Shasta, Eönwë and Izzy.

The bad news are that if we (well you who vote) miss toDay and there are two mutineers left, well that's the end of it and we lose.


An unnerving point to add. Now interestingly Nerwen keeps staying alive Night after Night even if she has a semi-innocent status on the ship. It's clear the normal dynamics don't work in here and the baddies probably don't have as much reason to kill a "known innocent" because she can't be silenced by the kill.

So are they just trying to keep up our insecurity concerning her innocence by letting her live or is there a real problem here?

And why did they pick Mith?

Well "they" or "s/he"...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

In that case we would have ample chances of winning as I think we can somewhat rely on Nerwen being a non-mutineer and slight reasons to believe the same of Gwath.

Hmmn. I wasn't all that keen on Gwath's talk of lynching ghosts yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The bad news are that if we (well you who vote) miss toDay and there are two mutineers left, well that's the end of it and we lose.

The worse news is that if there's two wolves and a cobbler, they can win toDay whatever we do.

However, as it stands I think there can only be two wolves if Izzy's one of them... unless they've screwed up.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now interestingly Nerwen keeps staying alive Night after Night even if she has a semi-innocent status on the ship. It's clear the normal dynamics don't work in here and the baddies probably don't have as much reason to kill a "known innocent" because she can't be silenced by the kill.

So are they just trying to keep up our insecurity concerning her innocence by letting her live

Presumably– but if so they're being pretty silly (not that I like to sound ungrateful). What's the point? It should be obvious that even if Greenie were lying, the real Seer would have dreamt of me– and would have denounced me if I were a wolf.

Why Mith? *shrugs* Well, I'd made up my mind she was a goodie... guess the wolves did too.

[Mithalwen]

becasue I had an open mind perhaps?

Don't' trust Nogrod.. remember Rikae chose him and he suspected me with no evidence presented.

[Boromir88]

I was going to put together a list of those alive and how many times they voted along with Mac...maybe that would give us something. I'll see if I can get that done, I'm going out to the Bullfrog to enjoy the Finals (USA! USA! )

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

becasue I had an open mind perhaps?

Don't' trust Nogrod.. remember Rikae chose him and he suspected me with no evidence presented.

Oh, I don't particularly trust him... but I can't very well vote him.

Actually, Noggins started the "will the real Seer please step forward" meme yesterDay. I didn't much like that then, and I don't like Eönwë's carrying it on toDay– looks a bit like, "Pssst! Cobbler! Here's how you can help out!"

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Actually, Noggins started the "will the real Seer please step forward" meme yesterDay. I didn't much like that then, and I don't like Eönwë's carrying it on toDay– looks a bit like, "Pssst! Cobbler! Here's how you can help out!"

I see what you are thinking but that's not the case. I think if anyone comes forwards toDay as "the real seer", we'll have a bunch of tough questions to her/him before even considering of believing her/him.

Staying silent for this long in this kind of situation would be just irresponsible behaviour - even if s/he had only a little information. But as Nerwen said, she should have knowledge on Nerwen at least and I can't see why s/he wouldn't have enlightened us about that already.

Originally Posted by Mith

Don't' trust Nogrod.. remember Rikae chose him and he suspected me with no evidence presented.

Do you really think no innocent ever suspects another innocent? That innocents, especially gifteds have it right everytime? Like those hunters who kill the seers in revenge during the Night when they are killed... (some of you probably remember that one?)

And to add: if you suspect me for not giving evidence to suspect you, then did you present evidence for actually voting me Mith? And what kind of evidence could one produce in this game in the first place with no knowledge about anything?

It was a gut feeling arising from the way you played and how you were more than happy to jump on me in the very beginning "with no reasons whatsoever" (sic) - but it has now been proved wrong. Were there not so many competing claims for cobblery already I'd say you Mith were one of them cobblers but maybe not... or whatever.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hmmn. I wasn't all that keen on Gwath's talk of lynching ghosts yesterDay.

Neither was I. And I think that's one of the reasons Gwath almost always gets lynched pretty early in the games. He throws in things like that and looks so suspicious people lynch him just to be sure. But I still think that Rikae's strong suspicions against him and the mutineer's decision to attack Rikae the confessed hunter would have been a bit too risky move from the mutineers if Gwath was one of them.

Alongside with Nerwen's possible (probable?) innocence that's the only other "fact" we can even imagine to stick with in the situation we are. (Fex. I wouldn't bet too highly on either Lommmy or Mac being the innocent one - it could really go either way).

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The worse news is that if there's two wolves and a cobbler, they can win toDay whatever we do.

Looking at the brighter side of it, the co-conspie still doesn't actually know anything and therefore can vote in a wrong way from her/his perspective. And there is a chance we have alredy lynched (or the mutineers have killed) both the conspies already...

We just don't know.

[Boromir88]

So Mac voted for...

Day 1: Nogrod (retracted and Nogrod again)
Day 2: Eomer
Day 3: Gwath
Day 4: Gwath
Day 5: Izzy (after retracting vote for Kath)
Day 6: Lommy

Eonwe: (Day 3)

Gwath:

Shasta: (Day 6)

Izzy: (Day 6)

Nerwen: (Day 4, Day 5, Day 6)

Other notes:

Day 3- Mac votes for Gwath, and at the end Nerwen retracts Rikae (after revealing as the hunter), votes Annu, and Gwath votes Annu.

Day 6- Everyone who was around after Mac's reveal (excluding myself) switched to Lommy. That doesn't really reveal too much, as well Mac said he was the Ranger, and someone innocent could believe that.

The only thing that sticks out is Shasta without question accepts Mac's claim and quickly votes for Lommy. His suspicion for it was not just Mac's reveal, but Eonwe voting with Lommy. Hmm...I also recall a defensive Mac when I pointed out Shasta's, Eonwe's, and Inziladun's post spurt after Mith said something. Inziladun is not a mutineer, and I believe he's innocent...but jury still out on Shasta and Eonwe.

Nerwen voted along with Mac the most amount of times...which is kind of odd. But actually I think this makes Nerwen look even more innocent (if there really was any doubt, I thought Nerwen could be a co-conspie). Mac trying to follow a presumed innocent's vote? Especially on Day 5, Nerwen votes for Izzy, and Mac retracts his vote for Kath and follows.

Gwath did not vote with Mac at all, but Mac tried to lynch Gwath twice, and when I wondered how Gwath's non-appearance would play into the mutineers strategy, Mac praised the observation and used the suspicion against Gwath to try and get Lommy lynched.

As for why Mith? How come it seems like I make a statement of innocence about someone they wind up dead? I apologize Mith. Anyway, I think it was Mith, because she's been here everyday and voted everyday. Even if she hasn't been an 'active' force, she votes everyday...plus no one really thought she was a mutineer.

The 5 still alive are all wildcards, which will make this very difficult vote for ye 5. Even if I believe Nerwen's innocent, I still have no idea what she is going to do.