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03-01-2009, 03:11 PM | #1081 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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03-01-2009, 03:24 PM | #1082 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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It is quite interesting that the tune being sung toDay; is muchmuch different than yesterDay/ Even different compared to the beginning of toDay.
Crunch the numbers. Crunch crunch, crunch them again. Balance. Sometimes balancing a game isn't easy. It gets more complicated, the more roles added to the game. So every possible scenario has to be worked out in the head before hand. There are points. Yes, the Gifteds couldn't be replaced until they'd all died. Assuming of course, everything that Brin has said is correct - which I don't believe on a couple of points. So as long as the WQ was alive, she could turn out Gifted's. Which kind of nulls the Black Piece kills at Night. They might as well of tossed a coin; rather that make strategic kills. Another note. Mnemosyne. Why so eager to follow Brin around toDay? Seems quite odd, especially compared to what you said earlier. No one knows anything. There are no "known" roles what so ever at this point in the game. Quote:
Why the change? In this case, the rules for this power - are the same for everyone it applies to. You can't choose the meaning of it differing on the player you are talking about it in context with. In terms of the Voting Power. In my opinion, clauses should have been made to the role - in the event that the WQ lived a long time. Because, such as a situation now; if the WQ was able to give herself the extra voting power; then there would be no way for th black pieces to win. X'd since #1079
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03-01-2009, 03:37 PM | #1083 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Then again, I doubt the White pieces could win either.
I'm thinking it will end in a draw.
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03-01-2009, 03:46 PM | #1084 | |
Reflection of Darkness
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Oh wait, I know how. It seems there's no point in even trying anymore. Because in the end, Shasta's just gonna award the win to the Grey Team. I can see it now: "Game over. Black Queen loses. Black Team loses. Black Pawn loses. White Team loses. Mithalwen wins." Darn that Grey Queen!
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03-01-2009, 03:49 PM | #1085 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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As for why I'm "following Brin around," I think that should be quite obvious: I trust her. She had obviously clued into sally's Hunterness before anyone who didn't know about this during the Night could have known. And she explains Noggie's death. We don't know everything? Well, if there's anything else we haven't learned those players have taken their secrets with them to their grave. I don't know why you're going after me, but it's not going to work. If you think that somehow through a single or double-bluff you can get phantom or wilwa (whichever is innocent) to suspect me to the point that they'll vote me over you or Rikae you have another think coming.
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03-01-2009, 03:50 PM | #1086 |
Pilgrim Soul
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Glad to be Grey
I like that....
*giggles*
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03-01-2009, 03:52 PM | #1087 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I am the Grey Pawn; I've secretly been in cahoots with Mith all game. As soon as I set off this reality bomb it'll kill off all of us but her and then the moral victory shall be mine.
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03-01-2009, 03:52 PM | #1088 |
Reflection of Darkness
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Btw, I do read too much into things because in the past I did not read into them enough. So really, I don't know what to think.
Right now my gut says Rikae and Izzy are both wolves. But I'm not making a decision yet. I'll be back in a few hours.
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03-01-2009, 03:56 PM | #1089 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Actually, I'm not going after you in some conspiracy or trickery to get others to vote for you.
I'm merely pointing out the inconsistencies. If you crunch the numbers, a draw is the most likely outcome.
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03-01-2009, 03:59 PM | #1090 | |
Beloved Shadow
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By the way, what do you make of this?
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Am I reading into the narrative too much, and it was merely supposed to mean that Sauron was cheating? If it does mean something, we must take it into consideration when we're deciding which individual to vote for today. Brin? You're the one who ultimately has to make the call. Who do you think is the safest kill? I have to get ready for service now, and so possibly I won't be around again until the last couple hours before the deadline.
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03-01-2009, 04:02 PM | #1091 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Frack, this added to Izzy's "you still don't know all of what's going on neener neener" does not make me feel good... Although if that were the case, why would Rikae act the way in which she acted? (Unless she's the cobbler.) Which would make me prefer to get Rikae toDay, personally.
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03-01-2009, 05:20 PM | #1093 | |
Beloved Shadow
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last post before leaving...
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But of course that would assume that she's assuming that I would even come up with the idea of the Knight being changed to a Hunter. Has she or Izzy left any clues to help lead a Cobbler to this conclusion, and they assumed Cobbler-Phantom would pick up on them? I would do a quick skim-through to check, but I really must be going. See everyone a couple hours before the deadline or so.
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03-01-2009, 06:17 PM | #1095 | |
Fluttering Enchantment
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03-01-2009, 07:25 PM | #1096 | |||
Reflection of Darkness
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Right now I'm leaning towards voting Rikae, but I haven't decided just yet. Let me eat my dinner first.
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03-01-2009, 08:30 PM | #1097 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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Anyway, due to Sally, we can obviously see that the rules are not the end all be all for determining limitations. The reason I am so terribly paranoid at this point is the fact that you seem to be quite powerful, and considering the two evil teams were in competition with each other, surely they would've been given a couple tricks up their sleeve to ensure even footing. Though as you said, they could've dreamed/killed you and then we'd be screwed, so perhaps there is nothing special lurking at all. Quote:
I don't feel good though about the fact that we are essentially being allowed to go in this direction with little fight (by "this direction" I mean lynch one of those two and then the other). Besides Rikae's request that Cobbler-Phantom follow her self-vote, the WWs don't seem to be taking any action, or attempting to get their Cobbler to do anything in particular. But anyway, of the two I believe most strongly that Rikae is a WW. I believe that her frustration is genuine, or at least she sure came across that way. And if she truly wishes to wash her hands of this, killing her first would also be the sporting thing to do.
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03-01-2009, 08:36 PM | #1098 | ||
Fluttering Enchantment
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Just want to wait a tad longer, make sure nothing else comes up.
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03-01-2009, 08:37 PM | #1099 |
Beloved Shadow
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Please wait for Brin, Wilwa.
I wouldn't want to be accused of misleading you.
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03-01-2009, 08:44 PM | #1100 |
Fluttering Enchantment
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haha, I'll wait a little while, but I can't wait forever I'm afraid.
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03-01-2009, 08:48 PM | #1101 | |
Reflection of Darkness
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I have to say, you're making me uneasy, phantom. Sorry, but I just don't trust you...
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03-01-2009, 08:53 PM | #1102 |
Reflection of Darkness
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Right now it's looking like Rikae is our best choice. For one thing, she's a bigger threat to keep around. If one of our two known baddies is a cobbler, then we need to get the cobbler toDay. And honestly, I have trouble seeing Izzy as the Black Pawn; she just doesn't seem cobblerish. So props to her if she is.
Just don't hate me if I'm wrong...
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03-01-2009, 08:56 PM | #1103 |
Fluttering Enchantment
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Alrighty then, just wanted confirmation from her majesty,
++Rikae If I don't manage to survive the Night, I wish the White team good luck!
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03-01-2009, 08:57 PM | #1104 | |
Beloved Shadow
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I don't think it actually happened. Otherwise we'd be dead as the number of WWs would equal the number of villagers. Repeat: I don't think that happened! My point about this was simply in reference to my case about the narrative possibly hinting at one of the Black pieces becoming a Rook, and your counter-point that "It wasn't in the rules so it can't be true". My meaning is that the rules obviously don't say everything, and logically there are things we do not know about the baddies. But if my crack-pot theory is correct, Rikae would indeed be the safe one to lynch. So my idea was not meant to conflict with your leanings at all. Rikae would be my choice as well.
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03-01-2009, 08:59 PM | #1105 |
Beloved Shadow
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And now I shall eat my dinner. Be back in a bit.
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03-01-2009, 09:07 PM | #1106 | |
Reflection of Darkness
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03-01-2009, 09:38 PM | #1107 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Why couldn't a new rook of been scried immediately after Lariren's death?
Just to clarify. I never said there was anything more going on, than there seemed. I merely stated that there are no known roles amongst us, and no one knows anything. Quite a difference. In terms of known roles, you could technically count the personal role which each person holds as known. However, it isn't known publicly until death. Why should the suspected baddies be ignored Brin? Does supposedly having a "baddie" role, pollute the mind, and erase it of all logical and reasoning skills? Or is it because, you think a "baddie" will lie their way out of death? Innocents are not immune to lying. Phantom you made a comment about the "suspected" baddies not putting up a fight or something along those lines. See the above comment. If you are marked for baddieness; regardless of the truth - the "innocents" say to ignore you.
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03-01-2009, 09:39 PM | #1108 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Back and much more awake/coherent than I was.
Interesting thoughts about evil scrying, though it doesn't seem to do much good at this point? Unless phantom has known this all along and that was his asking whoever is remaining to kill/scry him toNight-- I'm leaning more towards Rikae because she looks mildly more cobblerish than Izzy (although, once again, this is Rikae we're talking about), but I'm still thinking and hoping that both of them are full wolves. Hopefully toMorrow will bring enough easily identifiable information (I could just see a reveal/counterreveal, ) that we can have this game in the bag. And of course everyone's obeying Brinn, phantom! Our last baddie is lying low!
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03-01-2009, 09:48 PM | #1109 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Similarly, if an innocent can so deceive the wolves that they make choices that lead to their own destruction, even if it means lying, of course they're going to take it. We aren't ignoring you because we think your reasoning is tainted. We're ignoring you (except me, apparently ) because we don't trust you, plain and simple.
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03-01-2009, 09:52 PM | #1110 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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You basically just said, to ignore yourselves.
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03-01-2009, 10:03 PM | #1112 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Si, you did.
I wasn't complaining. Merely pointing something out. It is quite entertaining for me; to point blank say the truth about things and what is going to happen - and watch it get passed over as hogwash. I'm quite content knowing I've added years to my life from laughing. xD
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03-01-2009, 10:08 PM | #1113 | |
Beloved Shadow
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The only reason I brought up the potential scrying in the first place is to demonstrate that, as we were given no warning of Brin's scrying power, we cannot use the rules to cast out any idea regarding unwritten WW powers (primarily the idea I had about one of the WWs taking over the Rook role when the Rook went down). If that is indeed a secret Wolf power, then I would doubt that they could scry on top of that. I would however suspect that the BQ might've had scrying powers, seeing as she is the counter of the WQ. And frankly, if it was suspected that the WWs could scry as well, an WP Phantom would be just as likely to wish to be scried as a BP Phantom, as attracting the scry to myself would waste it. So if it even was my intention to get the WWs to waste a scry me, which it wasn't, then you basically just ruined the ploy. Unless that was your intention of course. But as I said, I think it highly unlikely that the WWs can do anything of the sort. If they can do anything, then it's replace their Hunter. And as Rikae seems to be the Bishop, I'd say that killing her seems like an even better idea than it was before I brought this up.
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03-01-2009, 10:09 PM | #1114 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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And of course, if what you're saying is true, you're using a time-honored technique: knowing that everyone's going to ignore you, or read through your stuff as entertaining lies, you can tell the truth and it might actually do more harm for the village than lying, because they assume your honesty is a pack of lies. I don't begrudge you it in the least.
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03-01-2009, 10:19 PM | #1115 | ||||
Reflection of Darkness
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As for the others, out of Mnemo, wilwa, and tp, I know that one is evil of some sort but not which. While I can't completely trust any of them, I will most certainly will be listening to what they have to say over you, a known baddie.
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03-01-2009, 10:25 PM | #1116 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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But this is all spec ultimately intended to induce conversation which will hopefully give those of us who are innocents some idea as to who is guilty, as well as a way to keep my brain occupied in the hours before deadline. Likely you're right and the wolves don't have any sort of scrying power at all.
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03-01-2009, 10:35 PM | #1117 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Brin-
How do you know that I'm evil? How am I a known baddie?
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03-01-2009, 10:48 PM | #1118 | |
Beloved Shadow
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1) If Izzy is indeed the Cobbler it would be remarkably convenient that Rikae chose her as her target during her reveal. 2) But if Izzy is indeed a WW, wasn't Rikae even slightly worried that she would be believed and that Izzy would be lynched, and the next day the WQ reveals with better proofs? 3) Unless she expected the WQ to reveal immediately, and thus "save" Izzy from her fate and pretty much make Izzy look clean. 4) Izzy did not kick and scream about it as I believe an Ordo would, but that means nothing seeing as a Cobbler and a WW in on the plan would react similarly. For the Cobbler would know immediately that it was a false reveal (because they know they're not a WW), and they'd play along. But naturally a WW would too. 5) A given from my point of view, but not from anyone else's, is that I am a White Pawn, meaning that either Mnem or Wilwa must be evil. So it must be taken into account whether or not I believe either of them to be a Cobbler or WW. 6) I would more readily believe Wilwa as a WW as opposed to a Cobbler, as I marked her early on a couple times for seeming to submarine through things. And though I can't remember her fully from past games, I think she's the sort that would act rather... crazy, as a Cobbler. 7) I have no clue whatsoever about Mnem. I have no experience with her. Early on I gave her the Noob free pass (surely she wouldn't have a role in her first game etc), but I cannot overlook the fact that she's been a famous lurker on the Downs and in WW and our mod knew her before the game ever started. 8) At first reaction I might see Wilwa as slightly more innocent than Mnem, partly due to the fact that she seems to be the only one that trusts me. But as it is completely possible that she is buttering me up just to use me later, I really shouldn't allow that to sway me. Finally- 9) As Izzy is the only individual that is a known baddie, I would likely guess in that direction on principle if it came down to it. It seems to me that at least killing a baddie (whatever they are) the final day is better than taking a chance on a baddie and failing. It would make me feel better anyway, as I have always cared rather more about my performance than the actual winning and losing (i.e. I'd rather play my best and lose than play like crap and get lucky and win- personal pride, ya know).
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03-01-2009, 10:50 PM | #1119 | |
Reflection of Darkness
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I sent a PM to Shasta telling him I wanted to make you the White Knight. He messaged me back to let me know I was unsuccessful. I can only successfully scry a player if they are the White Pawn. Therefore you cannot be ordinary. So then, you must be a role that is not a White Pawn. Then my options must be: -White Rook? Nope, she died a long time ago (and so did the second one, but obviously I already knew who she was). -White Knight? Nah, he got lynched. So you can't be that either. -White Bishop? No...that was Kath. -White Queen? Nope, that's me. -Black Queen? Sally hunted the BQ last Night, so you're obviously not her. That leaves: -Black Pawn -Black Knight -Black Bishop All of which are evil roles. Sorry dear, but you are definitely evil. It's pure logic, simple as that. EDIT: X-ed with tp
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