Admin. thread for WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by mormegil

You should, at a minimum, have a seer. The first game ever played had only 3 wolves and one seer.

And it was mad fun. Remember how Kuruwolf convinced the village I was the one in need of a lynching?

It was amazing...

So yeah. I'm up for just a seer. I really don't care about the other roles.

[Thinlómien]

I agree we need a seer and don't need a hunter. Ranger is nice, but not necessary. And Valier's playing? I pray don't make me a wolf and her and her gut-feelings innocent...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

A pity I can't probably have horrible grudges against Agan and Legate, because it's explicitly stated the grudges ended when Lobelia died...

Don't worry, if you really want to, we can reestablish the old family grudges. (*takes out a paper and after the last note writes a new one: "Must lynch Lommy."* )

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Legate: No problem. Choose whichever you wish. And if you liked me to be your mother, that would do as well.

*shrugs* I will think yet a little bit. But you did not help me. I hoped you to solve that Give the rising numbers of players, maybe it's not even adviseable to create even more confusion.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I could start straight away with the Day1 but if you think it better to give the wolves some time to exchange a few PM's before it's okay as well (and thence we'd start with a Nightphase).

I would be for a Nightphase. Mainly because some totally new players and totally old players may end up together as Wolves and it would be good for them to at least get acquainted before the game begins. But whatever - maybe if they are thrown right into the action, it will be more spontaneous and interesting.

Originally Posted by mormegil

You should, at a minimum, have a seer. The first game ever played had only 3 wolves and one seer.

Given the numbers, maybe one Seer would do good, but, is it really necessary? Someone spoke here about greater activity of the players... and with no Gifteds around, the game would be a little less confusing. Hopefully.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

*shrugs* I will think yet a little bit. But you did not help me. I hoped you to solve that

Do you mean I should have asked "will you marry me"?

I'm also for starting with Night phase, but I think it will work either way. In Spm's game there were three or so newbie wolves and we didn't have a chance to discuss before the game, but it wasn't that bad.

[Kath]

Am I too late or can I join?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Do you mean I should have asked "will you marry me"?

No, I hoped you to say "No" (or eventually, "Yes"). But I see Kath is here, so I should be quick or be dead. I guess I have to take the responsibility on myself. Okay, I say: yes, let's be married. I hope it's going to be fun and not make too much trouble in the game itself. We can always blame Noggins

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kath

Am I too late or can I join?

You're most welcome Kath. The signing-in ends in 21 hours...

And Valier as well! Nice to see you! And well, all of you guys! This is looking quite wonderful.

So let's start with the Night-phase then, tomorrow at 9PM GMT.

I'd like to hear more voices about the gifteds.

In a way I'd like to follow the first ever game with the wolves and the seer only.

On the other hand I have always liked the ranger as her/his presence makes the wolves a bit more careful during the Nights.

Then again we now seem to have 16 players which is enough to consider adding a fourth wolf into the pack. If we still get one or two more before the signing in closes I will definitively add a fourth wolf - and then we might consider also having the full list of gifteds (seer, ranger, hunter) along.

But what do you think?


Also, to keep this game handlable I'd say we'll draw a maximum line of players at this stage which I think could be 18.

So no more signings after tomorrow 7PM GMT or there are 18 players. I guess that should be ok. for everyone?

[Rikae]

If there's still room, sign me up! I don't think I have ever experienced a completely classic game...
oh, and I'll go as Rikae Took. What else?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'll go as Rikae Took. What else?

Welcome Rikae!

And what else... well there are a few questions we should talk before the game begins and I'd be happy to hear comments from all of you.

Most importantly about the number of gifteds and the wolves...

With 17 people on board right now (and possibly 18 in the end) I'd be inclined to have four wolves and at least a seer and a ranger. But your words will count until the start of Night1

With this sized village I have already decided to allow multiple lynchings.

I'm sending preliminary rules into the game thread in a moment. I'll leave a few things open at this stage though.

[Brinniel]

Well, looking at the large size of the game, I think it'd only be fair to the villagers to have a seer and ranger (especially if there are four wolves).

A hunter is possible as well, but I'd be quite okay if we went without one.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Or without some ranger or whatever, but with only three wolves. I would like that variant more (someone spoke about "classic" here and I hoped for a "lighter" game), but if you want seers and rangers and hunters and four wolves, whatever.

Personally, I would be for avoiding at least the hunter. Second (less important) thing in the order is that I would like to avoid four wolves. Third, I would like to try to make it even without the Ranger. The last is with a really big questionmark given our numbers. But I'm only saying that because you asked, Nog.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

Let's make it this way.

We will probably have 18 players (but it can be 17 as well).

Here are my suggestions:

1. 4 wolves & 3 gifteds (seer, ranger, hunter)

2. 3 wolves & the seer

3. 3 wolves & the ranger

4. 3 wolves - no gifteds

Which one would you prefer or do you have better ideas?

The reasoning for the above choices:
1. The higher number of wolves is balanced by having all the gifteds in (and the hunter would be the so called logical one ie. s/he wouldn't kill an innocent during a Night if attacked but only a wolf - if hunting one).

2. Big village but only three wolves so only one gifted ie. the seer.

3. Big village but only three wolves so only one gifted ie. the ranger.

4. Big village and a challenge for the villagers with no help balanced by there being "only" three wolves.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'd like to sign up, if it's not too late.... =x

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Only to apply what I said on these options you posted, I am for No.2., eventually No.4. if there is really interest in a no-gifted game. I am strongly against No.1.

Good night

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I kind of like the idea of number 1. That might just be the fact that I've never been a gifted, though. =P

[Nogrod]

I have one more proposition...

I received a PM from Kuru who said he would be away on the weekend with no net acces (meaning he would miss Day2) but would like to play. It would be so nice to see him on a game for such a long time that I will offer him a place as the 19th player.

That will definitively give us 4 wolves - if he comes along that is.

That in turn would only leave us the decision whether we take along all the three basic gifteds or should we try with only a seer and a ranger - or with only one of them?

PS. Welcome Shasta, please give us your hobbit surname...

[Brinniel]

My input (again):

If there are three wolves, then we only need a seer.

If there are four wolves, then we should have a seer and a ranger.

Either way, no hunter is necessary.

A no-gifted game would be interesting, but I think it'd only work in a smaller group...

[mormegil]

Even with 19 I still recommend 3 wolves and only the seer. I'm not sure if my input is valid but take it for what it is worth. I think it still provides a balances and fun game.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Even with 19 I still recommend 3 wolves and only the seer.

I'm just a little afraid on behalf of the wolves... If they're just three and the village has 16 innocents including a seer it will be really hard time for them and the odds will be very unfavourable.

The basic / classical ratio I think is 3 wolves for 15 players + the possible gifteds.

If we have 19 players it would then call for four wolves - as would 18.

To keep it simple as possible I'd be ready to go for 4 wolves and 2 gifteds (seer and ranger). That's then the classical ratio with a slight edge to the wolves (19/4 and not 20/4 - compare to 15/3). But if we were ready to play a game with no gifteds or just with one then adding another gifted might balance the minuscule edge the wolves have.

Well, we have time to settle this before Night1 begins... and I'm open to follow the majority of you players here as it is you who play the game...

So let's hear from you!

[Valier]

Originally Posted by Lommy

And Valier's playing? I pray don't make me a wolf and her and her gut-feelings innocent...

Ya I'm playing...I couldn't resist another one, seeing as it doesn't look like my work load will lessen any time soon, I figured why not. And I agree Lommy, lets pray together on that one..LOL I'm a little rusty so don't get your hopes up on my strange sixth sense.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hobbit surname, hobbit surname.... Hmm.

Shasta of the River.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Even with 19 I still recommend 3 wolves and only the seer. I'm not sure if my input is valid but take it for what it is worth. I think it still provides a balances and fun game.

Of course Master Mormegil that your suggestion is not quite valid, for you are a wolf!

Wait, we haven't started yet, have we?

Well, then I'll choose a surname. I shall be...

Farael Twofoot

Edit:

Almost forgot to mention....
Valier! I'm glad to see you are still around... and don't worry, that sixth sense will still be there... just listen to the farce. Force I mean!!

[Macalaure]

1. 4 wolves & 3 gifteds (seer, ranger, hunter)

2. 3 wolves & the seer

3. 3 wolves & the ranger

4. 3 wolves - no gifteds

I would vote for option 4. I like the idea that the catching of the wolves will be down solely to smart ordo guesswork. But of course, this would make a less classical game, so I'm fine with option 2, too, though in a village of 19 I think it would justify a fourth wolf. I'm also fine with an added ranger, but could do without a hunter.

[Thinlómien]

I think the fairest game would either be 4 wolves and full range of gifteds (#1) or 3 wolves and no gifteds at all (#4). I think #2 and #3 are a bit unfair to the wolves.

[satansaloser2005]

I agree. If we only have three balrogs I think it is a ripoff for them if we add gifteds into the mix. However, if we have four balrogs we could certainly benefit from the gifteds without being unfair to the balroggies.

I prefer option #1 myself, just because it offers more opportunities for intrigue (aka fun new roles to check out)


Hunter however, is no big deal to me. Whatever you other players prefer is good enough for me, as I've never played a game with a hunter anyway.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I agree. If we only have three balrogs I think it is a ripoff for them if we add gifteds into the mix. However, if we have four balrogs we could certainly benefit from the gifteds without being unfair to the balroggies.

I prefer option #1 myself, just because it offers more opportunities for intrigue (aka fun new roles to check out)


Hunter however, is no big deal to me. Whatever you other players prefer is good enough for me, as I've never played a game with a hunter anyway.

Balrogs in the Shire? Let's hope not - I believe these are just ordinary werewolves...

(And there was a hunter in my game so you've definitely played with one. )


And -
Rikae Took? Great! At least one respectable Hobbit around, then... (among you others, that is - I'm of course respectable)

[satansaloser2005]

Yeah sorry it's 430am here so I'm not totally with it. I meant I've never been one in the few games I've even played with one, so I can live without it. *head droops* What mother? Candy mountain, Charlie? Balrogs, Charlie? Oh good, just regular werewolves. *mumbles sleepily*

[satansaloser2005]

Oh and yay now I can make my "you look hairy" quips and they'll actually be sensical

[Nogrod]

This far it looks like we have 6 "votes" for at least a seer to be included and 3-4 for no gifteds at all (depending on how one interprets a few comments back there).

If we would have had 15 players it would have been easy: three wolves and a seer. A nice classic indeed.

But we have 18 players now - and if Kuru joins we have 19. And that makes a difference for playing 3 against 16 will be really hard and against all odds unlike playing 3 against 12.

4/15 is almost the same ratio as 3/12 and with classical game there would the seer and no other gifteds. If Kuru doesn't come it would be 4/14 and thus the villagers might gain a ranger to balance the ratio.

So what I think now basing on the discussion and after rethinking this myself I'd suggest the following choices, the first one being my slight favourite at this point:

With four wolves we should have a seer or seer and a ranger. That I think sounds like pretty classical ratio (around 1/3 have roles, wolves vs. villagers about 1/4) and quite balanced with these numbers. I'm quite happy to leave the hunter out as so many have voiced their opinion against the hunter (and hunter is a bit less classic role than seer and ranger anyway).

If there are any gifteds in a game with only three wolves the wolves will be the underdogs. So with only three wolves I'd say no gifteds. But even then I still think the wolves will have hard times managing through the game - just look at the numbers.

8½ hours to decide so I'm waiting for your comments...

[Volo]

I vote for 4 wolves, a seer and a ranger. And for a Night to start with.

[Aganzir]

++ 4 wolves & seer

I think that'll do.

[Thinlómien]

++four wolves and no opinion on whether ther should be a ranger to help the seer

[Kitanna]

As much as I'd like to join in the fun of another WW game, it is too close to final exams time to be playing. Good luck to all of you who have decided to play.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Remember how Kuruwolf convinced the village I was the one in need of a lynching?

You *were* in need of a lynching. ;-)

As for my playing this time...

I guess I'll leave it up to everyone else. I'm not sure its entirely fair to anybody that I'll be going into it knowing that I'll be missing a Day.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If the circumstances are so, I say

++three wolves and no gifteds

And if the other option (four wolves) is chosen by majority, then count my vote as one for having both the Ranger and Seer.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

As for my playing this time...

I guess I'll leave it up to everyone else. I'm not sure its entirely fair to anybody that I'll be going into it knowing that I'll be missing a Day.

I'd say you should play.

Firstly it would be nice to have you around from a long time.

Secondly it's not that unusual that someone has to skip one Day. It becomes a problem if someone has to be away longer than that. And with a village this big it's even a smaller deal.

Thirdly your joining in would stop our wawering between four or three wolves as with 19 it would be pretty clear.

That's my viewpoint. What do you others think?

[mormegil]

++Kuru

You should play!

Okay, when do we get started Noggie?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Okay, when do we get started Noggie?

Night1 starts at 9PM GMT today.

That is in 4½ hours...

[Kuruharan]

++Kuru

That's exactly what I expect to happen the moment I'm not here to defend myself.

For some reason I generate fear and paranoia...I have no idea why.

But I'll play.

EDIT: I'll be Kuru Shrewthwacker

[Farael]

Now, I don't want to be a pain, but am I the only one who thinks that adding an extra wolf is MUCH more of a disadvantage to the villagers than adding a couple extra villagers would be a disadvantage to the wolves?

Let's face it, it's darned hard to nail a wolf (Unless you are Farael who always knows ) whereas having a couple more villagers does not make THAT big a difference. True, the wolves need to survive an extra day or two, but then they also have more people to hide among. The higher the amount of villagers, the less likely they'll stumble into a wolf by pure chance!!

Therefore, I vote for 3 wolves, no matter how many villagers we have... and as such, I'd only like to have a seer. The hunter is a bit of an 'unnecesary' role, and not having a ranger makes it all much more fun!

Hope it's not too late to add my cent and a half.