Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

enep · 03-02-2001, 06:11 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Poor Smeagol. <img src=frown.gif ALT="

">

Welcome, YparE!

- enep</p>

***Gilthalion*** · 03-02-2001, 07:39 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

How odd! I had just commented on enep's personal pic in another thread. Now he has appropriated my personal pic!

I should sue for copywight infringement!

(Get it?)

Or is that just some bizarre trait of my display? His pic seems to incorporate whatever is a space above it...

<center> ~~~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000My Bare Bones Webpage</a>~~~ </center></p>

Orald · 03-04-2001, 02:34 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

I noticed that also. You need to fix that enep. It always has someone elses pick as its background. I wonder...

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

Samwise of the shire · 03-04-2001, 05:36 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: okay were you kidding or did you mean it?

Ok who ever you are I wouldnt call Sam a bad guy he doesnt like Gollum because he is a good guy-does that make sense?-Gollum had turned bad and you cant really blame Sam for not trusting Gollum,he could never be good again.I asked a question once about Gollum if he had lived would he ever be free of the lust of the ring?The answer was no Frodo had born the ring only a short while and he would never be free-remember he was deppressed and sick every March 25-and Gollum bore that darn thing for ages and ages so he was permantly CORRUPT.And Sam -being an honest,loyal caracter-could never trust Gollum,so really Sam is a major good guy and without Sam,Frodo would never had made it to Mordor(hint:Shelob)alone.Did that make sense?
Samwise
ps I used to pity Gollum too until I got the answer to my question,thanks Mr Erik sir

</p>

burrahobbit · 03-04-2001, 07:47 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: okay were you kidding or did you mean it?

First, Gollum almost turned good at least once, before Shelob's lair, but it was *Sam* that insulted him and pushed him back to bad, for good.

And second, it was a joke, dude, get a sense of humor.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

Samwise of the shire · 03-06-2001, 04:26 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: not really burrahobbit

I act before I think alot of times but I gotta ask ya a question BH.what would you have done?I know you wouldnt just sit there and say "oh hello where've you been Gollum?Whats next?you'd probably freak out.right?
And yes I admit Sam did contribute to Gollum's relapse into evil,but Gollum could never be good again because he NEVER WAS. How did he get the ring?Just ask Deagol nicley?Heck no!-I'll let you figure it out-.when you have, e-mail me at
sandhill@quixnet.net

</p>

burrahobbit · 03-06-2001, 05:21 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: not really burrahobbit

What would I have done? I probably wouldn't have woken up for several hours. If I had? I probably would have said something like "What're you doin'? Oh, ok" and gone back to sleep.

While Gollum may have never been "good", he used to be a whole lot nicer.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

Aldaron · 03-06-2001, 11:00 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy

An interesting discussion, albeit not very deep. But it all goes to show that Tolkien knew what he was doing. Not just one bad guy but a series to keep tension in the stories and to give us some suspense. At times the up-close bad guy makes us forget about the faraway bad guy, Morgoth. You can't have the master bad guy on the scene all the time or in each and every scene. Just one more piece of evidence that Tolkien knew very well how a story goes together.

</p>

Orald · 03-06-2001, 11:17 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy

If I woke and found Gollum pawing Frodo, I think I would have just started making lots of noise, but do it in a way that makes Gollum think that I didn't notice, and then I would tell Frodo later to keep a closer I on him.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

Zoe · 03-07-2001, 01:16 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy

Sam: Gollum did not start out bad. It was the influence of the Ring. (There's a topic somewhere called "Gollum's motives" or something, where enep and I discuss this.)

Because the Ring had so much influence over Gollum, it is hard to say that he is "bad", when it is not his will but the will of the Ring which is directing him.

Frankly, I think that if Sam had been in Gollum's original position, at the river with Deagol, he quite likely would have done the same thing, and ended up in much the same way.

</p>

Orald · 03-07-2001, 08:46 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy

He kinda was, he didn't take the ring from Frodo, he never even really tried. On the other hand, Deagol didn't even put it on and Smeagol took it. Or something like that. Anyway, Sam seems to have been a better person than Smeagol was.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

Elenanna · 03-15-2001, 12:22 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy

i think who ever deagol was to sam it would depend on wether sam did the same thing or not because he had a very strong sense of loyalty. smeagol didnt even before the ring

Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

Hannah 3 · 03-15-2001, 12:26 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Only Gilthalion agrees with me!!
How can you not like Saruman! Oh sure I'm sorry for Gollum but he's one of the istarii! He started out as the wisest, cleverest, best of the lot! (Unless you were wise enough to know that was really Gandalf.)
And he turned into a low down mean evil wicked villian reduced to spitefully cutting down trees! He's spitefull and nasty and, well, evil!
I always did like the wizards best <img src=wink.gif ALT="

">

~*~Hannah~*~,
The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
Of things unknown, but longed for still
And his tune is heard on the distant hills
For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

The X Phial · 03-15-2001, 04:14 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

I hafta agree with Hanna on this one. I think Saruman was the best villain. He was charming and a deep thinker. While Sauron and Melkor were the most evil, Saruman managed to figure out what would hurt his enemies most and then strike there. A good little sociopathic trick, if I do say so myself. <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">

-*-The X Phial-*- You must believe in free will, you have no choice. Isaac Singer</p>

Mithrandir · 03-15-2001, 07:48 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

I would also have to agree with Saruman as my favorite bad guy. He just wouldnt give up, after he was beaten and knew that he would never again become a great, powerful, and respected wizard by all, he still had the nerve to torture the poor hobbits back in the Shire! What a nasty nasty guy! <img src=mad.gif ALT=">:">

</p>

04-02-2001, 02:03 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

I have to go with saruman too.
I don't think he would have realized that it's over if Gandalf had beaten the crap out of him (am I allowed to say crap???)The worst thing about him is that he's a traitor, betraying the people who trust him! Pfui!!!
One person i always saw as a bad guy is Denethor.. even though sauron just scared that poor guy so much that he went insane.....

Get you gone and fly, for here is a fire that shall consume you, and all evil things.</p>

burrahobbit · 04-03-2001, 05:36 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

You can say worse than that if you want, just don't do it too often.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

04-05-2001, 08:07 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Mine has to be the 'Witch King' Lord of Nazgul, Khamul, Black Rider etc, etc.

He just creeps me out. The reason for this is cos you get to 'meet' him close up in LOTR whereas Sauron is just a presence from afar.

Fear seems to be his main weapon, and it certainly works on me ! LOL

'Three Rings for Elven-Kings under the sky'</p>

burrahobbit · 04-05-2001, 12:55 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Khamul and the Lord of the Nazgul are two different characters. Khamul is the number 2.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

Meron · 04-05-2001, 05:35 PM

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Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

When it comes to "favorite", I'd have to say poor Gollum, because at least we see some vulnerability in him, and can imagine that he has at least some shred of decency in him.

As for who is best at being a bad guy, I have to admit that the Mouth of Sauron has always fascinated me. He was described as being "crueler than any orc", and I'll bet that a recounting of his (mis)deeds would prove pretty ugly.

</p>

Amandil · 05-05-2001, 04:51 PM

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Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

How can you possibly choose a favorite? Even losing one would diminish the stories so much. <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">

How can you not choose Sauron? <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">
> Leading Gorlim the Unhappy into thinking that he would be reunited with his lost wife after Gorlim betrays his companions to their deaths, and then telling him she was already dead and cruelly putting him to death . <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">
>After fighting a battle of Song with Finrod (Yay!) Felagund and defeating him and casting him into a pit to be killed by a werewolf. boo hiss!!!! <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">
>After tormenting Thráin for YEARS in Dol Guldur <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> (He didn't give up the Keebler secret....wait the Elves have that!)
>After setting up the Cirith Ungol petting-zoo featuring Shelob? <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">
>After getting the Númenóreans to chop down Nimloth <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> No more Christmas for them! <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">

I mean look at all he got done after he got his finger chopped off! Frodo didn't do too much after he lost his digit! Neither did Beren after he lost his hand. Well, he did father Dior. You gotta give him credit for that. But he was married to Luthien. How hard could that have been? <img src=tongue.gif ALT="

">
And don't forget, he was the one you can give major credit for dispoiling Saruman and Denethor and to some extent even poor old Sméagol.

That being said, I think I choose Saruman. <img src=tongue.gif ALT="

">

</p>

Earendilyon · 05-07-2001, 12:45 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

My 'favorite' bad guy is Gollum: he's the best developed of the bad characters in the LotR.

"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." </p>

Teleri · 05-07-2001, 05:13 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Favorite....

I agree with Findorfin...the Witch King is a great bad guy, because he is really scary. Even though we know he was once a man, he has become a Shadow being. I think it's great the way we are introduced to them in the LOTR books-they were shadows in the night! Who's not afraid of the dark and unknown! Not knowing exactly what he IS , and what he is capable of, makes him terrifying. Whereas, Morgoth and Sauron ARE really bad, but they often get others to do their dirty work while they sit back and watch.

</p>

Aldaron · 05-09-2001, 03:50 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite....

How about the Dark Riders, as they confront the hobbits just before they reach Rivendell? That's right up close, not somebody doing dirty work for Sauron who sits far away. Scared the heck out of me the first time I read it.

</p>

Telchar · 05-15-2001, 01:14 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite....

When I was little I was terryfied by Smaug, to an 7 year old he seems pretty nasty the way JRRT described him ... I usually wanted the lights on after my mother read those parts to me <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)">

<img src=smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> Telchar

</p>

hegemonmatt · 05-16-2001, 12:36 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re:Fav. "Bad Guy"

Melkor, no doubt. He was the biggest, strongest, and coolest. Even Sauron was afraid of him. He rocked, and scares me to death.

</p>

05-17-2001, 07:03 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> My favourite

No one is more glamorous thatn the Black Riders!!!! <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">

</p>

05-20-2001, 12:31 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: My favourite

GOLLUM!!!!!!!

</p>

GandaIf The White · 06-05-2001, 05:52 PM

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Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Sauron was a big ninnyhammer! If he himself had gone out to Minas Tirith.. WAM BAM! YOU B DEAD! But, as you all know, he was too busy worrying about Aragorn. You have to admit Im right. He could not be destroyed and yet he would not help his army.

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>

06-08-2001, 10:22 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

it will be Ringwraiths

</p>

Theodred21 · 06-25-2001, 06:42 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Actually Gandalf, Sauron wasn't that stupid. Although he didn't do the physical fighting, he was the brains of the operation, so to speak. He thought up the evil schemes himself, but sent others to do it. Besides, if I were Sauron, I wouldn't want to be seen without a body.

</p>

The Watcher in the Water · 06-25-2001, 07:46 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Yes... what would the neighbours think?

The road goes ever on...</p>

obloquy · 06-25-2001, 08:47 PM

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Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Sauron wasn't always a sheerly "behind-the-scenes" kind of guy, and it's very likely that once he had recovered his Ring he would've become quite the military badass. I wouldn't discredit him for knowing when to be strategic and when to assert himself with personal confrontation. I highly doubt anyone in Middle-earth at the time of the War of the Ring would've welcomed a fight with Sauron...even with an army behind them.

</p>

Theodred21 · 06-27-2001, 10:53 AM

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Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

Although Sauron, Melkor, and the Witch King are all very bad villains, my favorite bad guy was Gollum. In some parts of LotR, I felt sorry for Gollum, but in other parts I hated him ( Like when Shelob stung Frodo and I thought he was dead for a while). But overall, he was good deep down inside, below the layers of corruption. I also enjoyed the way he talked too!

</p>

LionPixie · 06-29-2001, 06:39 PM

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Bad Guys

Was nobody spooked on the Paths of the Dead? Was Shelob a sweety? The Balrog a hug-a-bear?

But seriously, who really was the brains behind all the cruel mischief? It seems that Goldberry had everyone fooled all along.....

</p>

07-10-2001, 06:18 PM

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Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy".

id have to say gollum he way pretty sweet

</p>

Evenspire · 07-11-2001, 06:35 AM

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Favorite Bad Guy.

I enjoyed the combined humor and intrigue of Gollum, Bilbo's evil twin.

</p>

07-11-2001, 08:02 AM

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Re: Favorite Bad Guy.

flame of udun...

those dooming drums from the orcs of moria was definitely a squirmish moment...

He planted himself squarely in front of Faramir, his hands on his hips, and a look on his face as if he was addressing a young hobbit who had offered him what he called 'sauce' when questioned about visits to the orchard.</p>

KM Tinuviel · 07-11-2001, 05:43 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/eyepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy.

I'd have to say my favorite bad guy is the Newly Deceased Wight who re-opened the Balrog wings thread <img src=wink.gif ALT="

">
~Tinuviel

"Then suddenly, when her hope was almost spent, he woke again, and looked up, seeing leaves against the sky; and he heard beneath the leaves singing soft and slow beside him Luthien Tinuviel. And it was spring again."</p>

07-13-2001, 01:39 PM

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Posts: 1</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/eyepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy.

Fav baddie?
Stupid q.
M'self, course.

</p>

03-02-2001, 06:11 PM	#41
enep The Ghastly Leprechaun Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 406	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm Posts: 391</TD><TD><img src=http://www.dodgywebsite.homestead.com/files/Kungfu_01.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Poor Smeagol. <img src=frown.gif ALT=""> Welcome, YparE! - enep</p> __________________ - enep

03-02-2001, 07:39 PM	#42
*Gilthalion* Hobbitus Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: South Farthing Posts: 635	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 71</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". How odd! I had just commented on enep's personal pic in another thread. Now he has appropriated my personal pic! I should sue for copywight infringement! (Get it?) Or is that just some bizarre trait of my display? His pic seems to incorporate whatever is a space above it... <center> *~~~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000My Bare Bones Webpage</a>~~~* </center></p> __________________ Please read my fan fiction novel THE HOBBITS. Wanna hear me read Tolkien? Gilthalion's Grand Adventures!

03-04-2001, 07:47 PM	#45
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit Posts: 652</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: okay were you kidding or did you mean it? First, Gollum almost turned good at least once, before Shelob's lair, but it was Sam that insulted him and pushed him back to bad, for good. And second, it was a joke, dude, get a sense of humor. What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p> __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

03-06-2001, 05:21 PM	#47
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit Posts: 658</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: not really burrahobbit What would I have done? I probably wouldn't have woken up for several hours. If I had? I probably would have said something like "What're you doin'? Oh, ok" and gone back to sleep. While Gollum may have never been "good", he used to be a whole lot nicer. What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p> __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

03-15-2001, 12:26 AM	#53
Hannah 3 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 64	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 13</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Only Gilthalion agrees with me!! How can you not like Saruman! Oh sure I'm sorry for Gollum but he's one of the istarii! He started out as the wisest, cleverest, best of the lot! (Unless you were wise enough to know that was really Gandalf.) And he turned into a low down mean evil wicked villian reduced to spitefully cutting down trees! He's spitefull and nasty and, well, evil! I always did like the wizards best <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> ~~Hannah~~, The caged bird sings with a fearful trill Of things unknown, but longed for still And his tune is heard on the distant hills For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

03-04-2001, 02:34 PM	#43
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice Posts: 627</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". I noticed that also. You need to fix that enep. It always has someone elses pick as its background. I wonder... It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

03-04-2001, 05:36 PM	#44
Samwise of the shire Wight Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 152	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 24</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: okay were you kidding or did you mean it? Ok who ever you are I wouldnt call Sam a bad guy he doesnt like Gollum because he is a good guy-does that make sense?-Gollum had turned bad and you cant really blame Sam for not trusting Gollum,he could never be good again.I asked a question once about Gollum if he had lived would he ever be free of the lust of the ring?The answer was no Frodo had born the ring only a short while and he would never be free-remember he was deppressed and sick every March 25-and Gollum bore that darn thing for ages and ages so he was permantly CORRUPT.And Sam -being an honest,loyal caracter-could never trust Gollum,so really Sam is a major good guy and without Sam,Frodo would never had made it to Mordor(hint:Shelob)alone.Did that make sense? Samwise ps I used to pity Gollum too until I got the answer to my question,thanks Mr Erik sir </p>

03-06-2001, 04:26 PM	#46
Samwise of the shire Wight Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 152	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 26</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: not really burrahobbit I act before I think alot of times but I gotta ask ya a question BH.what would you have done?I know you wouldnt just sit there and say "oh hello where've you been Gollum?Whats next?you'd probably freak out.right? And yes I admit Sam did contribute to Gollum's relapse into evil,but Gollum could never be good again because he NEVER WAS. How did he get the ring?Just ask Deagol nicley?Heck no!-I'll let you figure it out-.when you have, e-mail me at sandhill@quixnet.net </p>

03-06-2001, 11:00 PM	#48
Aldaron Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 86	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 25</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy An interesting discussion, albeit not very deep. But it all goes to show that Tolkien knew what he was doing. Not just one bad guy but a series to keep tension in the stories and to give us some suspense. At times the up-close bad guy makes us forget about the faraway bad guy, Morgoth. You can't have the master bad guy on the scene all the time or in each and every scene. Just one more piece of evidence that Tolkien knew very well how a story goes together. </p>

03-06-2001, 11:17 PM	#49
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice Posts: 643</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy If I woke and found Gollum pawing Frodo, I think I would have just started making lots of noise, but do it in a way that makes Gollum think that I didn't notice, and then I would tell Frodo later to keep a closer I on him. It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

03-07-2001, 01:16 AM	#50
Zoe Wight Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 223	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm Posts: 254</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy Sam: Gollum did not start out bad. It was the influence of the Ring. (There's a topic somewhere called "Gollum's motives" or something, where enep and I discuss this.) Because the Ring had so much influence over Gollum, it is hard to say that he is "bad", when it is not his will but the will of the Ring which is directing him. Frankly, I think that if Sam had been in Gollum's original position, at the river with Deagol, he quite likely would have done the same thing, and ended up in much the same way. </p>

03-07-2001, 08:46 AM	#51
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice Posts: 645</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy He kinda was, he didn't take the ring from Frodo, he never even really tried. On the other hand, Deagol didn't even put it on and Smeagol took it. Or something like that. Anyway, Sam seems to have been a better person than Smeagol was. It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

03-15-2001, 12:22 AM	#52
Elenanna Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 98	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 78</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite Bad Guy i think who ever deagol was to sam it would depend on wether sam did the same thing or not because he had a very strong sense of loyalty. smeagol didnt even before the ring Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

03-15-2001, 04:14 PM	#54
The X Phial Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Out there with the truth. Come find me. Posts: 317	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 9</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". I hafta agree with Hanna on this one. I think Saruman was the best villain. He was charming and a deep thinker. While Sauron and Melkor were the most evil, Saruman managed to figure out what would hurt his enemies most and then strike there. A good little sociopathic trick, if I do say so myself. <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> --The X Phial-- You must believe in free will, you have no choice. Isaac Singer</p> __________________ But then there was a star danced, and under that was I born.

03-15-2001, 07:48 PM	#55
Mithrandir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 75	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 2</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". I would also have to agree with Saruman as my favorite bad guy. He just wouldnt give up, after he was beaten and knew that he would never again become a great, powerful, and respected wizard by all, he still had the nerve to torture the poor hobbits back in the Shire! What a nasty nasty guy! <img src=mad.gif ALT=">:"> </p>

04-02-2001, 02:03 AM	#56
Erchamion Guest Posts: n/a	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 10</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". I have to go with saruman too. I don't think he would have realized that it's over if Gandalf had beaten the crap out of him (am I allowed to say crap???)The worst thing about him is that he's a traitor, betraying the people who trust him! Pfui!!! One person i always saw as a bad guy is Denethor.. even though sauron just scared that poor guy so much that he went insane..... Get you gone and fly, for here is a fire that shall consume you, and all evil things.</p>

04-03-2001, 05:36 PM	#57
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit Posts: 723</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". You can say worse than that if you want, just don't do it too often. What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p> __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

04-05-2001, 08:07 AM	#58
Findorfin Guest Posts: n/a	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 5</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Mine has to be the 'Witch King' Lord of Nazgul, Khamul, Black Rider etc, etc. He just creeps me out. The reason for this is cos you get to 'meet' him close up in LOTR whereas Sauron is just a presence from afar. Fear seems to be his main weapon, and it certainly works on me ! LOL 'Three Rings for Elven-Kings under the sky'</p>

04-05-2001, 12:55 PM	#59
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit Posts: 726</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Khamul and the Lord of the Nazgul are two different characters. Khamul is the number 2. What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p> __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

04-05-2001, 05:35 PM	#60
Meron Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 16	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 12</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". When it comes to "favorite", I'd have to say poor Gollum, because at least we see some vulnerability in him, and can imagine that he has at least some shred of decency in him. As for who is best at being a bad guy, I have to admit that the Mouth of Sauron has always fascinated me. He was described as being "crueler than any orc", and I'll bet that a recounting of his (mis)deeds would prove pretty ugly. </p>

05-05-2001, 04:51 PM	#61
Amandil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bristow, Virginia Posts: 99	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 39</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". How can you possibly choose a favorite? Even losing one would diminish the stories so much. <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> How can you not choose Sauron? <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> > Leading Gorlim the Unhappy into thinking that he would be reunited with his lost wife after Gorlim betrays his companions to their deaths, and then telling him she was already dead and cruelly putting him to death . <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> >After fighting a battle of Song with Finrod (Yay!) Felagund and defeating him and casting him into a pit to be killed by a werewolf. boo hiss!!!! <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> >After tormenting Thráin for YEARS in Dol Guldur <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> (He didn't give up the Keebler secret....wait the Elves have that!) >After setting up the Cirith Ungol petting-zoo featuring Shelob? <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> >After getting the Númenóreans to chop down Nimloth <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> No more Christmas for them! <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> I mean look at all he got done after he got his finger chopped off! Frodo didn't do too much after he lost his digit! Neither did Beren after he lost his hand. Well, he did father Dior. You gotta give him credit for that. But he was married to Luthien. How hard could that have been? <img src=tongue.gif ALT=""> And don't forget, he was the one you can give major credit for dispoiling Saruman and Denethor and to some extent even poor old Sméagol. That being said, I think I choose Saruman. <img src=tongue.gif ALT=""> </p>

05-07-2001, 12:45 AM	#62
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 2</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". My 'favorite' bad guy is Gollum: he's the best developed of the bad characters in the LotR. "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." </p> __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia.

05-07-2001, 05:13 PM	#63
Teleri Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: U.S.A., though I'd prefer the Shire Posts: 45	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 1</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Favorite.... I agree with Findorfin...the Witch King is a great bad guy, because he is really scary. Even though we know he was once a man, he has become a Shadow being. I think it's great the way we are introduced to them in the LOTR books-they were shadows in the night! Who's not afraid of the dark and unknown! Not knowing exactly what he IS , and what he is capable of, makes him terrifying. Whereas, Morgoth and Sauron ARE really bad, but they often get others to do their dirty work while they sit back and watch. </p> __________________ "But after coming all that way I don't want to give up yet. It's not like me, somehow, if you understand."

05-09-2001, 03:50 PM	#64
Aldaron Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 86	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 89</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite.... How about the Dark Riders, as they confront the hobbits just before they reach Rivendell? That's right up close, not somebody doing dirty work for Sauron who sits far away. Scared the heck out of me the first time I read it. </p>

05-15-2001, 01:14 AM	#65
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 188</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Favorite.... When I was little I was terryfied by Smaug, to an 7 year old he seems pretty nasty the way JRRT described him ... I usually wanted the lights on after my mother read those parts to me <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)"> <img src=smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> Telchar </p> __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

05-16-2001, 12:36 PM	#66
hegemonmatt Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 15	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 13</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re:Fav. "Bad Guy" Melkor, no doubt. He was the biggest, strongest, and coolest. Even Sauron was afraid of him. He rocked, and scares me to death. </p>

05-17-2001, 07:03 AM	#67
Estel de la Tarda Guest Posts: n/a	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 5</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> My favourite No one is more glamorous thatn the Black Riders!!!! <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil"> </p>

05-20-2001, 12:31 AM	#68
FREAK ME Guest Posts: n/a	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 4</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: My favourite GOLLUM!!!!!!! </p>

06-05-2001, 05:52 PM	#69
GandaIf The White Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 267	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 146</TD><TD><img src=http://us.a1.yimg.com/shopping.yahoo.com/promotions/author/jrr_tolkien/i/jrr_tolkien.jpg WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Sauron was a big ninnyhammer! If he himself had gone out to Minas Tirith.. WAM BAM! YOU B DEAD! But, as you all know, he was too busy worrying about Aragorn. You have to admit Im right. He could not be destroyed and yet he would not help his army. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>

06-08-2001, 10:22 AM	#70
spaniardnazgul Guest Posts: n/a	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 3</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". it will be Ringwraiths </p>

06-25-2001, 06:42 PM	#71
Theodred21 Phantom Rider Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edoras, Rohan Posts: 1,213	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 2</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Actually Gandalf, Sauron wasn't that stupid. Although he didn't do the physical fighting, he was the brains of the operation, so to speak. He thought up the evil schemes himself, but sent others to do it. Besides, if I were Sauron, I wouldn't want to be seen without a body. </p> __________________ Rohan All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not whither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken: The crownless again shall be king. -The Riddle of Strider

06-25-2001, 07:46 PM	#72
The Watcher in the Water Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 159	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 66</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Yes... what would the neighbours think? The road goes ever on...</p>

06-25-2001, 08:47 PM	#73
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 935	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 31</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Sauron wasn't always a sheerly "behind-the-scenes" kind of guy, and it's very likely that once he had recovered his Ring he would've become quite the military badass. I wouldn't discredit him for knowing when to be strategic and when to assert himself with personal confrontation. I highly doubt anyone in Middle-earth at the time of the War of the Ring would've welcomed a fight with Sauron...even with an army behind them. </p>

06-27-2001, 10:53 AM	#74
Theodred21 Phantom Rider Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edoras, Rohan Posts: 1,213	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 53</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Who is your favorite "Bad Guy". Although Sauron, Melkor, and the Witch King are all very bad villains, my favorite bad guy was Gollum. In some parts of LotR, I felt sorry for Gollum, but in other parts I hated him ( Like when Shelob stung Frodo and I thought he was dead for a while). But overall, he was good deep down inside, below the layers of corruption. I also enjoyed the way he talked too! </p> __________________ Rohan All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not whither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken: The crownless again shall be king. -The Riddle of Strider

06-29-2001, 06:39 PM	#75
LionPixie Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 28	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 18</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Bad Guys Was nobody spooked on the Paths of the Dead? Was Shelob a sweety? The Balrog a hug-a-bear? But seriously, who really was the brains behind all the cruel mischief? It seems that Goldberry had everyone fooled all along..... </p>