One Thing in Common - Page 15 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lindolirian · 06-16-2003, 09:36 PM

Tal-Elmar was only mentioned in HoME 12. If this goes too far, I'll give a hint about who he is more. For those of you who do know who he is, then you can still get it. Actually if you know about him, it's quite easy.

Lalaith · 06-23-2003, 06:16 AM

They all lived during the Second Age...
or, more tentatively, they all bore ill-will to the Faithful.

Lindolirian · 06-23-2003, 09:01 PM

Getting close. You at least know Tal-Elmar!

Gwaihir the Windlord · 06-24-2003, 03:31 AM

It wasn't simply that they all lived in Numenor at some stage was it?

Lindolirian · 06-24-2003, 09:07 AM

You are so close, I think I'll give it to you. I don't know if Tal-Elmar actually did go to Numenor, but at the end of the story it says that he offers himself as a hostage which might imply that he went to Numenor. Anyway, my answer was that they all spoke Numenorean. Your go, Windlord!

Gwaihir the Windlord · 07-02-2003, 01:11 AM

Thanks -- sorry about the delay. Here they are:

Morgoth
Ar-Pharazon
Saruman
Fingolfin

Lindolirian · 07-02-2003, 10:03 AM

They have all been to the Undying Lands.

Gwaihir the Windlord · 07-03-2003, 12:24 AM

Sorry, not what I'm looking for.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 07-03-2003, 11:30 AM

All were Rebels.

Morgoth against Iluvatar and the other Valar.
Saruman against the Valar and the Istari.
Fingolfin was a leader in the Rebellion of the Noldor.
Ar-Pharazon against the Ban of the Valar.

Sophia

Gwaihir the Windlord · 07-04-2003, 01:02 AM

Hmm I wouldn't really call Findgolfin a leader of the rebellion... sorry, that's not it either.
Think long-term.

alquadae · 07-08-2003, 07:10 PM

They all ruled a "military" force of some kind

Gwaihir the Windlord · 07-09-2003, 01:26 AM

Close, alq. You need to develop that idea.

alquadae · 07-10-2003, 04:23 PM

All were defeated by Ainur

Lyra Greenleaf · 07-13-2003, 06:29 AM

They were all rulers- or more specifically they took more rule than they had a right to:

Ar-Pharazon tried to attack Valinor
Saruman claimed the title "The Ruler" which he had no right to
Morgoth pretty much tried to take over the whole world
Fingolfin became High-King of the Noldor instead of Maedhros- he was asked to, but the title still wasn't theoretically his
?????

[ July 13, 2003: Message edited by: Lyra Greenleaf ]

Gwaihir the Windlord · 07-15-2003, 03:14 AM

No. Both good answers (although I'm afraid Fingolfin doesn't quite fit into yours, Lyra).

Military force is a major factor in the answer.

Lindolirian · 07-17-2003, 07:52 PM

They all had a very large military force that was wiped out.

Gwaihir the Windlord · 07-18-2003, 01:04 AM

Well that wasn't exactly the answer, but as it's so close you'd better have it... my idea was that they all had huge initial military successes before suffering a huge defeat that they couldn't recover from. Ask away then, lindo.

Lindolirian · 07-22-2003, 04:35 PM

Nimrodel
Tar-Míriel
Drogo

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-22-2003, 05:46 PM

Is it that they all had significant others that drowned or were lost in water?

Nimrodel's lover, Amroth, was lost trying to swim back to shore in the Bay of Belfalas when a storm broke the moorings of his ship and it drifted out to sea.

Tar-Míriel's husband (and cousin), Ar-Pharazon, was lost when the seas rose as he set foot on the shores of Valinor.

Drogo's wife, Primula, drowned along with him in a tragic boating accident on the Brandywine River.

Lindolirian · 07-23-2003, 02:02 PM

That's it!

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-23-2003, 04:59 PM

Righty-ho.

Gandalf
Samwise Gamgee
Thorin Oakenshield
Turgon

Gwaihir the Windlord · 07-24-2003, 02:02 AM

They all undertook a long expedition, far away from their original homes.

Lindolirian · 07-24-2003, 09:47 AM

They all had at one time or another a sword that was made in Gondolin and glowed in the presence of Orcs.

Lyta_Underhill · 07-24-2003, 11:55 AM

Wild guess: they all made a perilous journey that involved braving a narrow dangerous pass:
Gandalf: Caradhras (or the Bridge of Khazad-Dum, for that matter!)
Samwise: Cirith Ungol
Thorin: The secret entrance to Erebor
Turgon: The Helcaraxë upon crossing to ME with the Host of Fingolfin

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-27-2003, 07:56 PM

The World's Tallest Hobbit has it! They all at one time wielded a blade forged in Gondolin.

Pray proceed, Lindol. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Lindolirian · 08-12-2003, 10:13 PM

Frodo
Tuor
Eowyn
Elros

Lostgaeriel · 08-12-2003, 11:05 PM

Could we add Aragorn to this list? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Is the one thing in common that they all had foster/adoptive fathers?

Frodo - adopted by Bilbo
Tuor - fostered by the Grey-elves of Mithrim
Éowyn - adopted by Théoden
Elros - fostered by Maglor
Aragorn - raised by Elrond

Lindolirian · 08-13-2003, 03:19 PM

Darn you, adding people to my list... And he fits. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Of course, you're right.

Lostgaeriel · 08-14-2003, 12:13 AM

Oh Lindolirian! I just thought you omitted Aragorn to put us off the scent. Really. 'Cause it almost worked.

I'm amazed that I got the answer; I haven't read The Silmarillion yet - other than the Index & Appendices. But I had just started reading Unfinished Tales - and so Tuor's childhood was fresh in my mind.

So…my turn, huh? I started to check the thread to prevent duplicating something already here, but 14 pages are too many. I doubt this one has been done.

§ Pippin
§ Pippin, again
§ Boromir
§ Glorfindel
§ Wormtongue
§ Gandalf
§ Ingold (not explicit in the text; I've just inferred this)

An addition to the list:

§ Denethor (he could be on the list twice, too.)

Need a hint? Just ask.

[ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ]

[ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ]

Another addition:
§ The Watcher in the Water

[ August 19, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ]

Lostgaeriel · 08-19-2003, 09:28 AM

OK. I'll clean up that list and give you a hint.

§ Gandalf
§ Glorfindel
§ Boromir
§ The Watcher in the Water
§ Pippin
§ Wormtongue
§ Pippin, again
§ Ingold (not explicit in the text; I've just inferred this)
§ Denethor
§ Denethor (same character, another instance)

Since two of these characters from tLotR are listed twice, you should deduce that there is some common action among them. The actions and objects that are acted upon have something in common. Think generally, not specifically.

Hint: I've listed them chronologically.

Gwaihir the Windlord · 08-20-2003, 02:58 AM

hmmm... was it that they all performed a sudden, angry, flared-up action at one (or two) points?

Gil-Galad · 08-20-2003, 10:21 AM

orcs had soemthign to do with there life, got them mad, sucicdeul, killed, made them run etc.

Cinderella · 08-20-2003, 11:43 AM

I've come up with several things but the Watcher keeps throwing me off... all it ever did was attack Frodo... but denethor never attacked anyone, nor did Wormtounge... Another hint maybe? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Evisse the Blue · 08-20-2003, 12:18 PM

They were all guarding something? I can be more explicit if this is the right answer.

Lostgaeriel · 08-20-2003, 04:44 PM

OK. Here are some hints.

Gwaihir the Windlord: Although at least 3 of the characters acted rather calmly, thoughtfully and deliberately, get a scrap of paper and jot down some specifics about these "various sudden, angry, flared-up action"s you're thinking of. You may see a type of OBJECT in common. [Subject verb object.]

Gil-Galad: Sorry, orcs don't figure in any of the actions. OK, in one case, orcs show up in the story as a result of the action.

Cinderella: A hint to you from you...

Quote:

I've come up with several things but the Watcher keeps throwing me off ...

Evisse the Blue: No, they're not guarding something. But think of some things that each handled. There is a type of object in common.

HINT: If you consider Caradhras a character, it could be added to the list. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

The object(s) acted upon have more in common than the actions (verbs).

The fact that Pippin and Denethor are each listed twice should be a big clue.

[ August 20, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ]

Gwaihir the Windlord · 08-21-2003, 02:25 AM

I haven't written anything down =], but I've thought of something: was it that they all attacked/actively opposed at some stage a bearer of a Ring of Power? Denethor might not fit this, though, unless you want to count Sauron.

Telchar · 08-21-2003, 06:00 AM

Mumbles: must be about stone throwing....

Lostgaeriel · 08-21-2003, 06:02 AM

No, Gwaihir the Windlord, that's not it.

Remember, I re-listed the occurances (all from tLotR) chronlogogically.

Shall I give you the dates?

* October 3
* October 11
* December 13
* December 13
* December 13? 14?
* March 5
* March 5
* March 9
* March 15
* March 15

Don't think of a particular object. Think of a general type of object. I'll let you figure out if it's animal, vegetable or mineral.

Ooh!

Telchar posted while I was writing this lenghty bit of dribble.

He's pretty much got it. Stones are absolutely involved - just not always thrown.

[ August 21, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ]

Lostgaeriel · 08-21-2003, 06:13 AM

Hi Telchar!

Would you like to elaborate? You've pretty much got it. The stones weren't always thrown, that's all.

Turambar · 08-21-2003, 09:23 AM

Is it, more generally, that they handled a stone? Pippin dropped a stone into the well in Moria, Denethor handled the Palantir, until Wormtongue hurled it at Gandalf, Glorfindel left the beryl on the last bridge, etc.

The Watcher in the Water was awakened by a stone thrown by Boromir.

06-16-2003, 09:36 PM	#1
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	Tal-Elmar was only mentioned in HoME 12. If this goes too far, I'll give a hint about who he is more. For those of you who do know who he is, then you can still get it. Actually if you know about him, it's quite easy. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

06-23-2003, 06:16 AM	#2
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	They all lived during the Second Age... or, more tentatively, they all bore ill-will to the Faithful. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

06-23-2003, 09:01 PM	#3
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	Getting close. You at least know Tal-Elmar! __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

06-24-2003, 09:07 AM	#5
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	You are so close, I think I'll give it to you. I don't know if Tal-Elmar actually did go to Numenor, but at the end of the story it says that he offers himself as a hostage which might imply that he went to Numenor. Anyway, my answer was that they all spoke Numenorean. Your go, Windlord! __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

07-02-2003, 10:03 AM	#7
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	They have all been to the Undying Lands. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

06-24-2003, 03:31 AM	#4
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	It wasn't simply that they all lived in Numenor at some stage was it?

07-02-2003, 01:11 AM	#6
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Thanks -- sorry about the delay. Here they are: Morgoth Ar-Pharazon Saruman Fingolfin

07-03-2003, 12:24 AM	#8
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Sorry, not what I'm looking for.

07-03-2003, 11:30 AM	#9
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,780	All were Rebels. Morgoth against Iluvatar and the other Valar. Saruman against the Valar and the Istari. Fingolfin was a leader in the Rebellion of the Noldor. Ar-Pharazon against the Ban of the Valar. Sophia __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!

07-04-2003, 01:02 AM	#10
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Hmm I wouldn't really call Findgolfin a leader of the rebellion... sorry, that's not it either. Think long-term.

07-08-2003, 07:10 PM	#11
alquadae Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Mithlond Posts: 154	They all ruled a "military" force of some kind __________________ Keeper of St. Elmos Fire

07-09-2003, 01:26 AM	#12
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Close, alq. You need to develop that idea.

07-10-2003, 04:23 PM	#13
alquadae Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Mithlond Posts: 154	All were defeated by Ainur __________________ Keeper of St. Elmos Fire

07-13-2003, 06:29 AM	#14
Lyra Greenleaf The Diaphanous Dryad Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: R toL: 531, past the wild path Posts: 1,152	They were all rulers- or more specifically they took more rule than they had a right to: Ar-Pharazon tried to attack Valinor Saruman claimed the title "The Ruler" which he had no right to Morgoth pretty much tried to take over the whole world Fingolfin became High-King of the Noldor instead of Maedhros- he was asked to, but the title still wasn't theoretically his ????? [ July 13, 2003: Message edited by: Lyra Greenleaf ] __________________ “Sylphs of the forest,” I whispered. “Spirits of oak, beech and ash. Dryads of Rowan and hazel, hear us. You who have guided and guarded our every footstep, you who have sheltered our growth, we honour you." the Forbidden Link

07-15-2003, 03:14 AM	#15
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	No. Both good answers (although I'm afraid Fingolfin doesn't quite fit into yours, Lyra). Military force is a major factor in the answer.

07-17-2003, 07:52 PM	#16
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	They all had a very large military force that was wiped out. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

07-18-2003, 01:04 AM	#17
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Well that wasn't exactly the answer, but as it's so close you'd better have it... my idea was that they all had huge initial military successes before suffering a huge defeat that they couldn't recover from. Ask away then, lindo.

07-22-2003, 04:35 PM	#18
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	Nimrodel Tar-Míriel Drogo __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

07-22-2003, 05:46 PM	#19
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Is it that they all had significant others that drowned or were lost in water? Nimrodel's lover, Amroth, was lost trying to swim back to shore in the Bay of Belfalas when a storm broke the moorings of his ship and it drifted out to sea. Tar-Míriel's husband (and cousin), Ar-Pharazon, was lost when the seas rose as he set foot on the shores of Valinor. Drogo's wife, Primula, drowned along with him in a tragic boating accident on the Brandywine River. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

07-23-2003, 02:02 PM	#20
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	That's it! __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

07-23-2003, 04:59 PM	#21
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Righty-ho. Gandalf Samwise Gamgee Thorin Oakenshield Turgon __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

07-24-2003, 02:02 AM	#22
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	They all undertook a long expedition, far away from their original homes.

07-24-2003, 09:47 AM	#23
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	They all had at one time or another a sword that was made in Gondolin and glowed in the presence of Orcs. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

07-24-2003, 11:55 AM	#24
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	Wild guess: they all made a perilous journey that involved braving a narrow dangerous pass: Gandalf: Caradhras (or the Bridge of Khazad-Dum, for that matter!) Samwise: Cirith Ungol Thorin: The secret entrance to Erebor Turgon: The Helcaraxë upon crossing to ME with the Host of Fingolfin [ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ] __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

07-27-2003, 07:56 PM	#25
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	The World's Tallest Hobbit has it! They all at one time wielded a blade forged in Gondolin. Pray proceed, Lindol. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

08-12-2003, 10:13 PM	#26
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	Frodo Tuor Eowyn Elros __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

08-12-2003, 11:05 PM	#27
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 477	Could we add Aragorn to this list? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Is the one thing in common that they all had foster/adoptive fathers? Frodo - adopted by Bilbo Tuor - fostered by the Grey-elves of Mithrim Éowyn - adopted by Théoden Elros - fostered by Maglor Aragorn - raised by Elrond __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

08-13-2003, 03:19 PM	#28
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	Darn you, adding people to my list... And he fits. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Of course, you're right. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

08-14-2003, 12:13 AM	#29
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 477	Oh Lindolirian! I just thought you omitted Aragorn to put us off the scent. Really. 'Cause it almost worked. I'm amazed that I got the answer; I haven't read The Silmarillion yet - other than the Index & Appendices. But I had just started reading Unfinished Tales - and so Tuor's childhood was fresh in my mind. So…my turn, huh? I started to check the thread to prevent duplicating something already here, but 14 pages are too many. I doubt this one has been done. § Pippin § Pippin, again § Boromir § Glorfindel § Wormtongue § Gandalf § Ingold (not explicit in the text; I've just inferred this) An addition to the list: § Denethor (he could be on the list twice, too.) Need a hint? Just ask. [ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ] [ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ] Another addition: § The Watcher in the Water [ August 19, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ] __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

08-19-2003, 09:28 AM	#30
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 477	OK. I'll clean up that list and give you a hint. § Gandalf § Glorfindel § Boromir § The Watcher in the Water § Pippin § Wormtongue § Pippin, again § Ingold (not explicit in the text; I've just inferred this) § Denethor § Denethor (same character, another instance) Since two of these characters from tLotR are listed twice, you should deduce that there is some common action among them. The actions and objects that are acted upon have something in common. Think generally, not specifically. Hint: I've listed them chronologically. __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

08-20-2003, 02:58 AM	#31
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	hmmm... was it that they all performed a sudden, angry, flared-up action at one (or two) points?

08-20-2003, 10:21 AM	#32
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	orcs had soemthign to do with there life, got them mad, sucicdeul, killed, made them run etc. __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

08-20-2003, 11:43 AM	#33
Cinderella Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arda Unmarred, MA Posts: 173	I've come up with several things but the Watcher keeps throwing me off... all it ever did was attack Frodo... but denethor never attacked anyone, nor did Wormtounge... Another hint maybe? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ These violent delights have violent ends... "Live fast, die young, and have a beautiful looking corpse." -J. Dean

08-20-2003, 12:18 PM	#34
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	They were all guarding something? I can be more explicit if this is the right answer. __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

08-21-2003, 02:25 AM	#36
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	I haven't written anything down =], but I've thought of something: was it that they all attacked/actively opposed at some stage a bearer of a Ring of Power? Denethor might not fit this, though, unless you want to count Sauron.