The Hobbit Survivor

[Anguirel]

Offer temporarily accepted.

The Trolls are quite funny and Dwarf-reduction should be the primary priority...

[The Saucepan Man]

Well hey, pardon me for setting out my full and frank views ...

Originally Posted by Anguirel

So you think Dwarves should be reduced, but exempt all but one from being reduced on various grounds. Other Dwarves than Thrain are, as you yourself say, going to have to go.

Agreed. As I said, it starts getting difficult for me from here on in. I need to think about which Dwarves I would like to see staying around for a while. I'm with Lalaith on Balin and I would like to see one of either Fili or Kili stay in with a chance for the time being. And Bombur amuses me.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Clearly this unvarying, sophistrical method of condemning and defending is-despite whatever higher reasons invoked-ultimately subjective.

Er, yes. And your point is ...?

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

The whole buisness about voting off dead dwarves before the living ones is nonsence. We must either see all the dwarves (and other beeings) as living or dead.

Everything that you say is, of course, entirely correct. It was an issue that troubled me a while back, but I got over it. The real division, I suppose, is between characters that feature in the tale only by reference because they died before it began, whom I find it difficult to get too worked up about, and those who feature as primary characters in the tale, whom I find myself more attached to. Well, it works for me ...

Originally Posted by Anguirel

This thing about people being dead and smelling, started as a quip of Formendacil's I believe, is really no longer funny or clever. I mean, it never was that funny or clever ...

Silly old Ang! That's precisely why it is both funny and clever. Well, to me anyway.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

The Trolls are quite funny and Dwarf-reduction should be the primary priority...

Agreed.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Silly old Ang! That's precisely why it is both funny and clever. Well, to me anyway.

I never really see the point of scatological/olfactory humour. Must be the Scot in me...

[Lalaith]

To retain one troll is funny. To retain two looks like carelessness.

[Anguirel]

I am now going to use the tactics employed by the Saucepan Man to destroy his rivals in LOTR Survivor.

I'm going to produce ludicrously skewed odds.


The remaining contestants:

Dwarves/Bad Guys
Balin-Even and favourite to win. No one has the gumption or willpower to stop this Dwarf-his victory is eminently predictable.
Bombur-6-1
Dori-500-1
Fili-4-1
Gloin-39-4
Kili-8-3
Thrain (father of Thorin)-600-1
Chief Warg-20-1
Smaug 12-1
William 35-1
Tom 40-1

Men/Elves/Others
Beorn 45-1
Elrond 35-1
Elvenking 80-1
Eagle Lord 19-1
Roac 800-1
Belladonna Took 3-1
Bullroarer (Bilbo's great ancestor) 3-1

Now watch the psychological repercussions...

[Kuruharan]

His real fault in your eyes is that you don't happen to like the cut of his jib.

As fine an example of the pot calling the kettle black as I’ve ever seen. (I think I’ve said that before on this thread).

I am open to all kinds of suggestions but none which would involve the demise of Beorn.

We now know how we will be able to irritate you at some future point in time. He’s not going to win and he will go at some point. I think I’m going to start lobbying for trolls.

Belladonna Took 3-1

I’ll take this one.

[Anguirel]

Notice I gave Kili slightly lower odds than Fili, because his name is more amusing...

[Lalaith]

We now know how we will be able to irritate you at some future point in time

Now why would you want to do a nasty thing like that, sir?

I think I’m going to start lobbying for trolls.

To evict, or win?

[Elu Ancalime]

The Trolls are quite funny and Dwarf-reduction should be the primary priority...

Aye, I think that spells it out well. The trolls did amuse me a bit in the hobbit. As for the odds, I think the trolls and the hobbits really have a chance to win the Survivor. I already have a guess at that....
________
Type 9 Transmission

[Kuruharan]

To evict, or win?

Whichever seems like a good idea at the time.

[Elu Ancalime]

*poke* and the loser is....
________
Stocks To Buy Now

[Glirdan]

And the loser is two people, for I now cast my vote and cast-out post (I've been studying for exams).

++Thranduil

For being the father of the little prissy boy elf, Legolas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again, two people were to be cast out. This time, they were from the rival races: an Elf and a Dwarf. Thrain and Thranduil were the one to be evicted. "Thrain is really starting to smell. We NEED to get rid of these dead people! And Thranduil is just being his annoying little self. Not to mention he's the father of a little prissy boy elf!!" The votes that night at tribal council were still a little spread however:

Elrond - 2
Belladonna - 1
Thranduil - 5
Dori - 4
Thrain - 5

With that, Thranduil was usurped from his throne in Mirkwood and Thrain went back to to Aule and lived with him while the powers of the Valar lasted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contestants voted out:
Bofur
Ori
Durin (The first King Under the Mountain)
Nori
Fundin
Gandalf
Nain (father of Dain)
Bungo Bagins
Chief of Guards
Thorin
Bilbo
Golfimbul
Carc
Gollum
The Master
Dwalin
Bifur
Great Goblin
Bard
Azog
Oin
Dain
Necromancer
Old Took
Bert
Galion (Elvenking's Butler)
Girion
Thror (grandsire of Thorin)
Bolg
Elvenking
Thrain (father of Thorin)

The remaining contestants:

Dwarves/Bad Guys
Balin
Bombur
Dori
Fili
Gloin
Kili
Chief Warg
Smaug
William
Tom

Men/Elves/Others
Beorn
Elrond
Eagle Lord
Roac
Belladonna Took
Bullroarer (Bilbo's great ancestor)

We have 15 more contestants. Get voting!!

[Anguirel]

Hang on. I have an objection. By Saucey's count, since when no votes have changed, Dori was also on 5. This should be a triple eviction...

[Anguirel]

I've recounted and, alas, Saucey got it wrong. Dori is still with us, boringly enough.

I hope that the goody-goodies who failed to take down Dori because he's a "sweet, nice little Hobbit-carrier" will not be so squeamish about another candidate.

I speak of he who said the following immortal slur:

"The moment I set eyes on him, bobbing about on the doormat, I had my doubts. He looks more like a grocer than a burglar!"

In this way Gloin, the haughty aristocratic warrior of the line of Durin

1. Endorsed theft, specifically burglary

2. Discriminated against a co-worker on a height-related basis ("bobbing about on the doormat")

3. Implied discrimination on racial basis (that Bilbo is a Hobbit)

4. Displayed hauteur and contempt for honest trade off which Gloin and his penniless aristo leech friends feed, to wit grocery

5. Mocked home comforts, to wit doormat

6. Showed hypocrisy ("I had my doubts"-why didn't he raise them earlier?)

This line alone is a fine basis for eviction. Later evidence also shows that his son Gimli-though thankfully intelligent and open-minded enough to change-was brought up to be a hardened Dwarf supremacist.

In conclusion-

++GLOIN

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Since William is obviously the intellectual
of the two remaining trolls, having the foresight
to plan for ah, foraging, by moving down from
the hills above the East Road.

And since there must be a limited supply of
sheep on the island, it's best to cut down on
the number of trolls, particularly since they
might get bored with eating mutton or if the
sheep supply ran short they'd
look for other kinds of snacks. While men and elf
survivors might be safe, dwarves (especially the dead
ones) and burrahobbits might be in danger of
sudden removal as contestants.




+ + Tom

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I've recounted and, alas, Saucey got it wrong. Dori is still with us, boringly enough.

Doh! Must have been all those changes of vote.

Still, good result yesterday when all is said and done.

As for Gloin:

Originally Posted by Anguirel

1. Endorsed theft, specifically burglary

The quoted statement doesn't imply anything of the kind. The Quest of Erebor itself, being as it required a burglar, admittedly does implicitly condone theft. But that implicates all of the remaining Dwarves.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

2. Discriminated against a co-worker on a height-related basis ("bobbing about on the doormat")

Since when was bobbing on doormats exclusively the preserve of the vertically-challenged? The words are merely descriptive of the state in which Gloin first encountered Bilbo.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

3. Implied discrimination on racial basis (that Bilbo is a Hobbit)

Not really. The statement is directed specifically towards Bilbo, not Hobbits in general.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

4. Displayed hauteur and contempt for honest trade off which Gloin and his penniless aristo leech friends feed, to wit grocery

Gloin was merely stating that Bilbo seemed more like a grocer than a burglar to him. A reasonable comment to make in the circumstances and not, in itself, insulting towards grocers.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

5. Mocked home comforts, to wit doormat

Eh? You are definately reading far too much into this.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

6. Showed hypocrisy ("I had my doubts"-why didn't he raise them earlier?)

He was showing courtesy and restraint. He was prepared to give Bilbo a chance to show his mettle as a burglar.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Later evidence also shows that his son Gimli-though thankfully intelligent and open-minded enough to change-was brought up to be a hardened Dwarf supremacist.

Hmm, you rather over-egg the case here. But, to the extent that there is truth in what you say, the same applies to most Dwarves and certainly to the majority of Thorin's company (Balin being the possible exception).

I hold no particular candle for Gloin, although I feel that he ought to be accorded due respect as Gimli's father. And his words to Frodo at Rivendell show that he has mellowed with age. In any event, there are a number of Dwarves that I would rather see go before Gloin.

As I mentioned before, Fili and Kili are both brave and noble Dwarves, but they are pretty much interchangeable so we can afford to lose one of them. Randomly, I shall choose:

++ KILI

[Anguirel]

What was the point in splitting the anti-Dwarf vote?

At this rate pro-Dwarfers will combine for an all Dwarf final.

In the end, Gloin is an inessential Dwarf and will have to be gone. It does not matter whether he goes sooner or later. What does matter is if the current trend continues, and, say, the Bullroarer is evicted instead.

The only possible good I can see coming out of this is a Gloin-Kili double eviction...

[Lalaith]

Oh wise Tuor! At last, a troll bandwaggon.

++TOM

[Kuruharan]

One of the most vitally important viewing groups is hopping mad!! The producers and advertisers are having fits of the vapors!!

I speak, of course, of the all-important "Paunchy, balding middle-aged husband" viewers. They are fit to be tied over the continuing presence of that manly-man, not-at-all-paunchy, aggressively hairy, and utterly single hunk...Beorn!! The wives can't get enough of him and the husbands have had all they can stand and they can't stand no more!!!

The producers have all curled up into tiny balls in the corner and are whimpering pathetically!! The advertisers have fainted so much that they've run the world out of smelling salts!!

We must ease their passing...uhh, suffering!!

++ Beorn

[Anguirel]

I think it's a blatant case of "OK, a Dwarf can go, but it has to be my Dwarf" by Saucey, but...

--GLOIN, ++KILI

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I think it's a blatant case of "OK, a Dwarf can go, but it has to be my Dwarf" by Saucey, but...

Well, yes, in a way. I would prefer to see Kili go today rather than Gloin. That's why I voted for Kili rather than Gloin. Isn't that kind of the point of the show?

I'm prepared to reconsider should another Dwarf emerge as favourite for today's eviction. But don't bank on me changing my vote, as I am unlikely to be on much, if at all, over the next few days.

As for Tom, well I have no major issue with him being voted off. He is the least interesting of the two remaining Trolls. But I do think it sensible to continue thinning out the Dwarves before focusing on the less well-represented races/creatures.

[Anguirel]

I just think your preferences are undermining the wider Dwarf-evicting cause! We could have swept off on a united Gloin bandwagon. Believe me, votes for Kili will be harder to achieve.

[Lalaith]

The advertisers have fainted so much

Poppycock, my dear Kuru. The wives are still watching, the wives do the shopping. The advertisers are happy as mudlarks.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Lets see if we can get some more trolls of this island.

++TOM

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Now, let us get rid of the self-centered ulcer of The Hobbit. In addition to all the arguments that have been presented against him, every decent bear has been asleep for a long time now and if he starts to snore, this show will be far from entertainment. Therefore:

++BEORN

[WaynetheGoblin]

++gloin

[Kuruharan]

The wives are still watching, the wives do the shopping.

*gasp* Blatantly sexist remark!!! Please allow me to make my own...

The husbands do all the earning and are threatening to cut up all the wives credit cards! In fact, they now have an activist group (Furious and Tubby or F.A.T.) that is calling on enraged anti-Beorn husbands everywhere to do just that!! F.A.T. will not be stopped until Beorn has been given the unceremonious ejection he so richly deserves.

(I have a feeling I'm about to accomplish my goal of removing any semblance of sanity from this thread. )

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

Now, let us get rid of the self-centered ulcer of The Hobbit. In addition to all the arguments that have been presented against him, every decent bear has been asleep for a long time now and if he starts to snore, this show will be far from entertainment. Therefore:

++BEORN

What's this? An ancient bandwaggon, long forgotten? How I remember the days of trying to vote this furry bugger off of the island, but it appears that such attempts were for naught, and the Beorning Menace remains as potent as ever!

Let us rid ourselves of this long-since-he-should-have-been-gone bandwaggon, so that there's room in the garage for another.

++ Beorn

[Lalaith]

The husbands do all the earning

WHAT!!!!
Ok Kuru, this is war.

[Elu Ancalime]

At last, a another chance to evict Beorn Dwarf-Stalker, who surely would have eaten up the Quest to Erebor had they no hobbit or wizard. Bu tdwarves seem to be the enemy; they dont seem to be given a warm welcome here at the Downs. However Beorn did help them, but to the persausion and tactics of Gandalf. Therefore, by Beorn helping the convict dwarves on their quest of greed and to poach the endangered Fire-Drake Smaug, he should not only be an enemy of the tribes, but an enemy of liberty, selflessness, and all the Free Peoples of the world.

++Beorn

and for the record:

I just think your preferences are undermining the wider Dwarf-evicting cause! We could have swept off on a united Gloin bandwagon. Believe me, votes for Kili will be harder to achieve.

I would soon vote for Gloin than I would Kili. Kili earned a hero's death! Gloin....just seems more vote-able.
________
VAPORIZER INFORMATION

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

The husbands do all the earning and are threatening to cut up all the wives credit cards! In fact, they now have an activist group (Furious and Tubby or F.A.T.) that is calling on enraged anti-Beorn husbands everywhere to do just that!! F.A.T. will not be stopped until Beorn has been given the unceremonious ejection he so richly deserves.

Argghh. I really wanted to vote for Beorn today. But can I after that???

Maybe I can. Beorn is still a shape-shifting hippie, and still uselessly annoying. He came in last in all of the most recent nature trail races due to his constant detours to look for honey. And in addition, F.A.T. members will certainly be irritated if their ends are only achieved through an accidental alliance with their arch-enemies...

++BEORN

[Holbytlass]

Keep up with the dwarf down-sizing! Give Kili a pink slip.

++KILI

[Anguirel]

We need to unite, and the Gloin voters are more intransigent. I say Dwarf reducers should follow me if we're to match the Beorn bandwagon.

--KILI, ++GLOIN

Down with the hide-bound grocer hater!

[Formendacil]

To play the Devil's Advocate, I will make this appeal to the Davem demographic of voters (not that Davem is voting in this game, nor has a demographic appeared that follows his views... but whatever: I'm having fun).

Kili is a character found only in The Hobbit, where he comes to his unfortunately sticky end. As such, he is never seen as a living or breathing character in the true Legendarium- and is only met through Appendix A III. Gloin, however, is a living and breathing dwarf that we are privileged to meet in Rivendell.

Furthermore, Gloin is a rare example of a character who gets wiser with age, for surely anyone can see that he had become less critical and more kindly in his old age.

I agree that the Dwarves need culling- although I'm standing by my Beorn vote for now- but if push comes to shove, then I think I'll transfer my vote to Kili, to save the older Dwarf's skin.

Anyway, if the argument of "Thranduil is Legolas' father = eviction" is valid, then Gloin ought to be kept for the same reason.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Anyway, if the argument of "Thranduil is Legolas' father = eviction" is valid...

It's not.

[WaynetheGoblin]

I cant take it i will vote for who i want.
--gloin
++beorn

[Anguirel]

So much for my stroke of realpolitik.

--GLOIN, ++KILI

[Celuien]

Wayne just voted for Beorn. Wayne-annoying is one of my hobbies. So...

--BEORN
++KILI

Kili sounds too much like Kiwi. I can't respect a Dwarf who's named for a bird and a green fruit.

[mormegil]

++Beorn

I've been trying to get this Ox off for a long time now.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Since it appears Tom won't be evicted
in this round:

- - Tom
+ + Kili