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11-14-2008, 10:31 AM | #521 | |||||
Woman of Secret Shadow
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The suggestion Lommy gave about Cab's death sounds plausible although I wouldn't rule out any other thing, either. And it's funny that my first reaction, too, was, "Ha! Nog's guilty!"
I don't see much sense in speculating who might have chosen him since it's possible to find a reason for just about everybody to have him as a kill. Quote:
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edit: xed since Lommy
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11-14-2008, 10:33 AM | #522 | ||
Leaf-clad Lady
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EDIT: x-ed since phantom's 516
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11-14-2008, 10:35 AM | #523 |
Everlasting Whiteness
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Hi all! Sorry I haven't been around at all toDay, just been on a class trip so only got back about 10 minutes ago. Just to let you know I'm actually going to disappear again before too long because it's my friend's birthday but I will be back to vote for a Rep and then I'll be around for much more of the second half of the Day.
Got to go read through the thread now. Will hopefully get another post up before I leave.
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11-14-2008, 10:35 AM | #524 | |
Beloved Shadow
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Let me ask, have you ever suspected an Ordo? (obvious answer- yes) And the next question- has an Ordo ever been able to convince you via logic and reactions that he is innocent, and you turn your suspicions aside? (obvious answer- yes) The fact is, an Ordo who does not attempt to defend himself is failing his duty to the village. If I suspect an Ordo, I expect him to tell me why I'm wrong! If he manages to convince me to take my eyes off of him, even just a little bit, then he has helped the village, for the whole point is to come to suspect Werewolves, not Ordos.
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11-14-2008, 10:50 AM | #525 | ||
Woman of Secret Shadow
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I have way too little time left but I see if I can go through Ilya's posts before leaving. At the moment I think I could vote either Boro or Shasta, maybe morm or phantom as well.
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11-14-2008, 10:53 AM | #526 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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Edit: crossed with Agan.
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11-14-2008, 11:04 AM | #527 |
Leaf-clad Lady
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The list.
I'M WORRIED ABOUT (in no particular order): Eönwë - His points are mostly vague and what is most worrisome is that he slips completely under my radar to an extent that it seems deliberate. Nogrod - My theory about why he suddenly jumped on Legate on poor grounds combined with the night kill of McCaber (yes, I too thought about Nog or someone framing Nog being behind it...) makes me feel uneasy about him. Gwathagor - Another worrisome submarine. I didn't like his rep vote yesterDay, and he seems to me to be more of a submarine than he usually is. Aganzir - She no longer gives me innocent vibes so she belongs in this category. I don't know why, maybe it's because she seems more tense and more stressed than usual. Ilya - Like has been said before, her part in yesterDay's voting looked like easy bandwagoning and made me uneasy when I read it. Brinniel - I don't like her reasons for voting Legate. Otherwise she has given me no reason to suspect her so I don't, but I'm not as certain about her innocence as I used to and will keep an eye on her. I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT (likewise): Boromir88 - Seems genuine and brings up good valid points. Lommy - She doesn't look at all guilty to me at this point. mormegil - Has given me no reason whatsoever to suspect him. Feels genuine and reasonable and raises good points. the phantom - Currently I don't think he is a baddie. Currently, mind you. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TO BE WORRIED OR NOT: Gil-Galad - Really too little substance to draw conclusions from. Kath - Rudolph loves her, that's for sure... Nerwen - No read, though she isn't even among the most quiet players. That woman is just sneaky. I have no idea about her. Rune - No idea yet. I'd like to see more of him. Sally - No idea. Shasta - Now he has been posting quite a lot, but still I have no idea about him. The Ka - Now if Nerwen is sneaky, then what is Ka? (answer: very sneaky.) Hmmm. At this point, I think my rep vote might go for morm or Lommy. I'd like to see new faces among the reps, and they both are innocentish and reasonable players who I think could do well as reps. EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Boro
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11-14-2008, 11:07 AM | #528 |
Beloved Shadow
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As far as Reps, I'd like to see these people-
Agan Boro Green Kath Rune
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11-14-2008, 11:08 AM | #529 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Or let me put it this way, you're around a lot, giving lots and lots of information but you're holding back a bit. Thus, you're "behind the scenes," you know...doing all the prep work. But hey, like I said earlier, if you want to do all the homework keep going, makes my day a lot easier. No one should take your word for it, and just so you know (although I doubt I have to tell you this) when something strikes me, I double check to make sure you're not manipulating anything for some evil purpose...but yes I have to say it's served me extremely well as far as focusing and organizing, and I don't have to spend hours rummaging through the pages on where I thought I saw something suspicious/odd/innocent, whatever it is.
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11-14-2008, 11:13 AM | #530 | |
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And tell me why I belong to Worried-category if I no longer give you innocent vibes. Isn't there a grey zone as well, or am I so suspicious that ony those innocent vibes kept you from defining me as downright suspicious right away? I'm working on Ilya but I don't think I get my project finished since I should leave in something like ten minutes. I'll post what I have then, though.
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11-14-2008, 11:13 AM | #531 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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11-14-2008, 11:14 AM | #532 |
Maundering Mage
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The problem with a statement like this is it's could be an attempt to back me up against a wall. Nerwen could feel that by saying she is offended that I will back off because to proceed further would be rude. I will not back off, look at what her little 'slip' has done. Multiple people are coming and delcaring her likely innocent. I think it is a great ploy to use and that you are wise enough to use it. It is not an insult, rather a compliment, but it makes me not trust you and the fact that you are now trying to pressure me to stop bothers me too.
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11-14-2008, 11:18 AM | #533 | |
Maundering Mage
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11-14-2008, 11:21 AM | #534 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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I have to go now, and may not be back in time to vote later.
So I will return the compliment: ++Lommy for rep Because I'm thinking of her as likely innocent right now, and she usually has good judgement. I also would prefer to see a change of government. EDIT: x'd since Boro at 539.
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11-14-2008, 11:27 AM | #535 | |||||
Woman of Secret Shadow
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Ilya
First she just speculates game mechanics - differences between the weight of reps, and possible uses of filibuster; seer's province (why? Would the seer risk him-/herself just to save one known innocent?) or someone's who's wishing to avoid lynching, especially wolves' - later she voted against filibuster. Then she suggested that as the game progresses, it might be good to have a method of empowering reps so as to mitigate a charismatic wolf from ruling the reps. Now that I think of it, I don't quite understand what that means. Could you explain?
She also agreed that a limited number of reps would be necessary, and suggested seven. On her list of suspicions she said eg. she's naturally highly suspicious of Brinn because everybody seems to trust her (explained later: she got two votes so early but Ilya couldn't remember if there was anything else she was afraid of about her). Di's post felt weird to her. All Legate's posts made sense but there were too many of them. Suggested it's a good idea to vote both loudmouths and lurkers for reps, but we should "let at least one experienced writes-a-lot have the power to vote, so that all the reps can't fall back on tp's or Legate's or Shasta's Day 2 arguments." Now, how could all the reps do that since everybody is allowed to talk and make suggestions, anyway? She voted Boro for her rep despite being not quite sure about him, but his logic is sound and points worth consideration. Not sure if it's just me but I think there's something too nice in this reasoning. She said she wouldn't want to vote anyone who already had one vote (Eönwë, Gwath, Legate). Then there's post #407 which looks worth a look but I don't have time for it now. Quote:
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After Legate started to seem like the obvious lynch, she said she needed another reread before making up her mind. She said she didn't feel she had enough to go for Eönwë or Gwath. Then a quote which I find suspicious: Quote:
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Cab struck her as a safe kill. Quote:
I will be xing with everybody since my last post. I read quickly what's been posted in the meanwhile and vote for a rep, and then I must run or my friend will kill me.
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11-14-2008, 11:32 AM | #536 |
Woman of Secret Shadow
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My suspicion list is now as follows (in no particular order):
Ilya Eönwë Greenie Lommy (not that I'm actively suspecting her, I just want to keep an eye on her) Nog (keeping an eye on him until I have time to go through his posts) Nerwen (I agree with morm's latest about her - planning to go through her posts when I have time anyway) ++Boro for rep I really have no time to think about it more now and I trust him.
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11-14-2008, 11:35 AM | #537 | |
Beloved Shadow
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Perhaps I should suspect Nogrod for posting more than once yesterday. Or perhaps I'll suspect Brin for posting in English.
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11-14-2008, 11:38 AM | #538 | |
Laconic Loreman
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11-14-2008, 11:39 AM | #539 |
Beloved Shadow
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Rep votes...
Ah, good. Boro has a vote.
I'm interested to see what Nerwen does if she gains power. I still don't trust her. But we'll see. As far as Lommy, on one hand I'd like to think she's innocent because she seems paranoid. On the other hand I would have thought that after just being a Werewolf with me in my last game she'd have recognized McCaber as definitely not my handiwork. EDIT: x-post Boro
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11-14-2008, 11:42 AM | #540 | |
Beloved Shadow
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I was going to do a Seer show as well, but I was saving it for tomorrow. I figured if the Seer lived through tonight and I could buy him/her/it a fourth dream that it'd be well worth it. And the fact that I came right out and said this will make my act no less effective. The WWs will discuss me as a kill choice tonight. "He's screwing with us!" "No, that's just what he wants us to think!"
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11-14-2008, 11:46 AM | #541 | |
Wight
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Quote:
Edit: Man, I already caved on the let's-not-post-and-just-take-notes. Agan, a "charismatic wolf" would be someone who has a bead on the general suspicions of the reps and would be able to do exactly what Boro did to me yesterday: cast a vote with authority, and convince me to jump on the bandwagon. It wasn't such an issue for the other reps, though, in practice, which is all the more awkward for me, I guess. I don't think I had you confused with Legate, but I'll go back and look what I wrote again. The Gil-Shasta did strike me as odd, because I know that Gil's usually quite canny, and so I thought, maybe, you know, it was a staged thing. Ok, now I really am going to go reread the thread, and not just post that I'm reading it and instead go to YouTube.
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11-14-2008, 11:54 AM | #542 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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I managed to peak in during the morning and will have a few comments on something there. Then I'm going to read what has been said after that.
And just fyi I'm sharing the computer with Greenie tonight (RL) so we will be posting in something like turns. I don't know if you have come to a conclusion about McCaber being killed or not but to me it looks very puzzling indeed. And it makes me wonder. Why not tp? Why not Boro? Why not me? (add any player you think being a major threat to the wolves). There is no ranger so they roam free at Nights. So why not? So Boro and tp and Lommy / Aganzir... (add your favourite wolf's bane here) are wolves and they let me live to see the other Day (just to attack me... it seems...)? It would sure be in the wolves' interest to get down players who'd threathen them. But they didn't. And as the suggestion of there being those wolves looks a bit improbable I must think the wolves were actually after a seer. Even if it's Fea's game I'm not just ready to believe that he would have picked tp and Boro as wolves together with Lommy or Agan... or morm / Kath (if it's Fea who picks them)? Which doesn't mean one of them wouldn't be a wolf... or two? I just can't believe they all are. Maybe she could pull out that kind of thing? But what's the other possibility? If they thought of him as the seer? That would make sense... in a way. Killing the seer surely is the number one thing for the wolves. I have been a wolf enough many times to know what is the first priority of the wolves. But in this case I'm not too happy about this explanation either as I can't see anything seerish in McCaber's posting as it's more like his normal submarine-behaviour. But neither can I figure out a third way at this point.
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11-14-2008, 12:18 PM | #543 | |
Beloved Shadow
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Boro, if you're around, could you do me a favor? Read this section I'm quoting from Nog and tell me if it reminds you strongly of anything.
It did me, but I worry that it is simply because I am biased in favor of not trusting Nog at this time, therefore anything he says is incriminating, where as if I found him innocent initially his post would instead convince me further of innocence. Anyway, what do you think of this- Quote:
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11-14-2008, 12:18 PM | #544 |
Maundering Mage
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Where is Shasta today? He had the second highest count yesterday and today he's nowhere to be found. I don't remember him mentioning that he would be gone.
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11-14-2008, 12:21 PM | #545 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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I will also say you are quite the sweet talker, but I'm still a little wary. Because it either means you're genuine, innocent, or maybe you aren't as new to this as you are trying to convince people that you are? Ok, I hope you can follow that last question, more of a rhetorical one from me though. Quote:
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11-14-2008, 12:30 PM | #546 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Reminds me of when you are a wolf, how you absolutely love to dangle "answers" right out in the hopeless innocents' faces, without leading them to the correct answer. Like I said though, I'm probably not the best person you can ask, for a fair opinion...hmm too bad Agan left. Morm? Ilya?
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11-14-2008, 12:50 PM | #547 |
Laconic Loreman
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And some more thoughts in response to you, tp....
Reminds me of an old argument...hmm, maybe I can come up with another Downerism, because I know this aggravated SpM greatly. The argument that if SpM wasn't dead by Night 3 he was obviously a wolf, because wolves would not leave around an innocent SpM. So, he uses this argument and lumps several "wolf-banes" together, and out of them, he's obviously the innocent one, who is now being singled out. However, it's peculiar that he doesn't point out the possibility that McCaber was a safe kill for wolves, because he wouldn't leave a trail. Why did you leave out that possibility Nogrod? Did you leave it out, because you realized it would be completely conflicting with your argument about why one of the "wolf-banes" wasn't killed last night?
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11-14-2008, 12:51 PM | #548 |
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Point of order.
[QUOTE=Nogrod;573476] Even if it's Fea's game I'm not just ready to believe that he would have picked [/QUOTE]
On behalf of the moddesses, I would say that we are all, all woman, all of the time. The fact that the computer system at work calls me Andrew is completly irrelevant. The other moddesses are free to confirm or deny this. Or not.
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11-14-2008, 12:53 PM | #549 |
Beloved Shadow
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Meh... guess it's not that obvious then.
What it reminded me of is the way I talked about Kuru in the game where you and I were WWs. I tried to lump myself into a small group with him and talk about why the WWs weren't killing us, and come up with reasons for it. Anyway... EDIT: x-posted Boro and Mith
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11-14-2008, 12:53 PM | #550 |
Werewolf Psychic
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Paper tech today. I'll be around in a few hours.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
11-14-2008, 12:56 PM | #551 | |
Beloved Shadow
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11-14-2008, 12:57 PM | #552 |
Laconic Loreman
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tp, you might have crossed with my last post, because after some further thought, I believe I eventually thought the same...I guess my memory just nearly isn't as good as yours...
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11-14-2008, 12:58 PM | #553 | |
Beloved Shadow
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EDIT: x-post Boro
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11-14-2008, 01:04 PM | #554 |
Pilgrim Soul
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Dead Moddesses still flirt
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11-14-2008, 01:15 PM | #555 | ||||
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Then just a few thoughts on those posts I felt kind of bad from the early hours of the Day.
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Or then you are a wolf trying to bring forwards suspicion on me to get rid of me "sportily" in the broad Daylight? Somehow I'd think you would have come up with a better idea. So I can't quite believe that either. *baffled* The same goes with the next one. Quote:
So how come you tp think that if I act in the same way as you do it makes me look suspicious? What does it say of you? Knowing what you're cabable of I must say I'm disappointed to you as a wolf. And it would be an insult if you were an innocent thinking me a possible wolf with this. What are you up to? Fea didn't talk of there being cobblers... The other thing then: Quote:
But on the Gwath-suspicion. Sadly you left out the real point - or was it on purpose? I kind of remember you used a sig saying something like "for your safety and my sanity read all the thread"!!! What I said about Gwath was this (talking from the devil's advocate point of view that is): Quote:
Think of Gwath as a wolf (take the devil's advocate point of view). He knows I'm one of the loudest proponents of lynching the enigmatic people out on the first Days as it will get tougher Day by Day and the number of submarines may decide the whole game in the end. He realises he's one of the possible targets (I've gotten him lynched pretty early a time or two on Day1 or 2). So what does he think as he sees many people seem to trust me and I might be on my way to being a representative thus adding to his anguish (he is a wolf in this scenario, mind you)? He makes a decent try by voting me to be his representative so that I would feel good about it and leave him out from my possible list of "lynching the quiets" because he trusted me! This is the point I voted for him, not that it was a contradicition. Sorry Boro, but I get the feel that you are as well either disparaging my intelligence seriously or you are just throwing things forwards without actually reading the thread. Or then you're a wolf trying to get something on someone who is an innocent but make a pretty bad performance with it. And I'm having serious hardship in trying to believe any of the possibilities. And the last thing. You Boro say I'm giving pressure to Legate while voting Gwath - and that makes me suspicious. I never vote Legate on Day1, neither I vote you, or tp, or Lommy or... unless there is a major case behind the suspicion. You know it. (and if not look up there for the explanation) But what I'm used to is to kind of give all my last thoughts forwards before I go as I don't know whether I'm alive when the next Day comes. So I pointed to the fact that I suspected Legate for that "doing a Legate 180" and when I saw the Star Wars -thing I thought it noteworthy enough to point it out (I was wrong, yes; but had he been a wolf and I had not pointed to that one, I would have cursed aloud if I had been killed the last Night and Legate had gone on winning the game while I had noticed that little thing but had not voiced it). I like your "cut the crap" -attitude Boro, but this is not it. Not the least as you were one of those who actually lynched Legate. Are you trying to whitewash yourself? Turning the attention to others from your own guilt? Couldn't resist lynching an innocent loudmouth who could be on your way? Got a trophy from lynching Legate? It's Day2 now and we're getting something more solid to base our thoughts on, btw. Okay I'll let Greenie in but then I will look at the rest of the posting toDay. Me, slow? Really? EDIT: X'd with hundreds... and still not read even a third of toDay's posting... and leaving the PC to Greenie for a while. I'm catcjhing up though... but slowly.
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11-14-2008, 01:32 PM | #556 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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I think you're misunderstanding my distrust of you. I'm suspecting you not on any sort of slip, or logical contradiction, but rather on the attitude that I am attempting to read behind your posts. Two people can say the same exact thing and have entirely different attitudes. Example: Person 1 and 2 both voice suspicion of person 3. But when I read their posts I interpret them like this- 1- I'm an Ordo that doesn't know who to suspect. Right now Person 3 looks suspicious to me. 2- I'm a WW and I want you to lynch wrong. Person 3 looks like a good target. Quote:
That's what all this is based on Nog- what I'm hearing behind the words. I could be completely wrong, because no two people think exactly alike. If I can I'm going to go back to a game in which you are innocent and read it a bit and see if I can get a better feel of how you talk and such. I'm not ready to hang you now, but I don't trust you enough to make you a Rep either. We'll see as the day unfolds which way I am swayed.
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11-14-2008, 01:47 PM | #557 | ||
Leaf-clad Lady
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EDIT: x-ed with no one!! Now what is this?
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11-14-2008, 02:02 PM | #558 | |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
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++Aganzir for Rep As far as the Nog, Tummy (phantom), Boro conversation goes I find it interesting and am modifying my opinions of them. Boro still has my trust the other two do not. I believe Nogrod has been called into question enough to narrow my list down to Agan, Boro, and Brinn of those I would trust to be a rep. I think making Nerwen a rep, as she already has one vote, would be interesting to see how she handles it but I'm not willing to throw my vote her way to make sure she is.
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11-14-2008, 02:04 PM | #559 | |
Laconic Loreman
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I said your case against Gwath was balogna. Period. And I thought it was very reasonable to ask why you continued to pressure Legate after you said you wouldn't be voting for him. Alright, you like to post your final thoughts before heading out, I know that, and concede it's normal for you. Normal doesn't mean you're not a wolf, and yes I guess that means it doesn't make you one either. Anyway, I still call your vote for Gwath balogna. So, let me get this devil's advocate thing straight...you assumed if Gwath was a quiet wolf, and he knew you were going after the quiet players, than he would try to win your trust by voting for you as his rep? Also all that not wanting to lynch tp, me, legate...etc on Day 1 that you just love to feed everyone, ok got it. It's still balogna, because you assumed Gwath was a wolf and then carved out a reasoning to fit your assumption. I'm also well aware that Lommy (and I believe Agan) originally threw out the idea that since McCaber died, they want to scream "Nogrod's a wolf." So, don't lecture me about not reading carefully. I just haven't said anything about it yet, because I wanted to get a response from you, and I can only do one thing at a time here. I'm getting about as me-focused as the phantom here, because I thought after McCaber's death, crap the wolves are going to be coming after me, as at the end I made a case for why they should kill an innocent McCaber. Virtually, I signed his death warrant there...but really the opposite has happened. Lommy's said it makes me look innocent to her, Agan has voted me as a rep, and they both thought the death would point towards you. So, apparently if you're innocent, you're the one the wolves wanted to set up, or you're a wolf and killed McCaber. Edit: crossed with Greenie and morm
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11-14-2008, 02:06 PM | #560 |
Leaf-clad Lady
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Awh, this is just my luck. Now that I'm online, the discussion has momentarily ceased. Blah. I suppose I have to keep it going, then...
Just some random thoughts. First of all, I think Nogrod's behaviour toDay has been quite odd. He seems somehow very aggressive (ahem - I mean, more than usual ) and seems to get heated very easily. The way he reacts to tp's and Boro's posts about him looks really like overreacting and playing the martyr to me. That over-confident "you say this about me, which I don't like, so you are either wolf or stupid: and because I know you can do better and are not stupid, it means you are a wolf!" -attitude doesn't sit right with me. Also, I still don't like his traditional "you know I'm not the kind of player who does that" -argument. Other than that, I've been mildly annoyed by the "veterans" speaking about past games. Ok, I know that the topic can't be avoided and all, and that it's useless to play WW if we can't take advantage of our past experiences, but using them as arguments is not nice. They might be efficient arguments in themselves but are a bit difficult to follow if truth be told. Oh, don't I sound grumpy. I don't like this, I'm annoyed by that. As if there was nothing I like in this game... Well. I'll probably vote for a rep soon and then go to sleep. I really don't feel like staying up late tonight. Please please cross-post with someone!! EDIT: morm and Boro, I love you!
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"But some stories, small, simple ones about setting out on adventures or people doing wonders, tales of miracles and monsters, have outlasted all the people who told them, and some of them have outlasted the lands in which they were created." |
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