Werewolf XXXI: The Unknown Enemies - Page 11 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 05:58 PM

"Not to mention them both being nicely around to hammer the vote of toDay down as the first posts of toDay. It's so smooth and clear..."

Why wouldn't I be around? The day starts at 6 pm my time, and obviously I would want to check and see if my little scheme paid off. As it did, and I certainly hope that you don't spoil it now! *pouts*
After all, I saved your life, buddy! You owe me one.
(j/k)
It would actually be kind of cool if you lynched me now and threw away the victory. Trust me, I would never let you forget it!

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 06:14 PM

The thing that got me alarmed in the first place toDay was that both Mac and Rikae ran on Xyzzy at the begining of the Day by voting him indeed. Who could be an easier lynch than him? So being lovers you would have chosen the perfect sacrifice as we all would be relieved by the "knowledge" that the non-pariticipant Xyzzy indeed is the villain. How good and comfortable we would feel indeed! And the most myself, as I would have been saved by Rikae - meaning that Xyzzy-wolf would have been following the game enough to pick me as the subject of the kill.

I don't want to under-estimate anyone's capabilities or engagement as such, but choosing me last Night from all the players would require someone who really follows what happens... and this doesn't fit with the general profile I get from Xyzzy (you saw the games he showed as an example of the games he normally plays - quite far from this).

Although his willing to actually take part and to defend himself so eagerly as soon as he was openly suspected (well, claimed the wolf indeed) would speak really bad of him as well.

I admit, that if Mac and Rikae are true it's just logical. If Mac is the Seer he should have chosen from between Xyzzy and The Sixth and I can also see why he chose Xyzzy for his dream. But the problem is, they both are capable ewnough to be logical baddies as well. So the logic will probably not help us much here.

What troubles me more is Rikae. Yes, she may indeed be the ranger and thence I must thank her for the possibility of being here toDay in the first place. *bows* If it really is that way I duly appreciate it.

But somehow I still can't get the itch away from me that this is too simple and clean - that there is a scheme behind all this... She has made so many suspicious moves as well... and leaving me alive the "Last Day" would be just beautiful. Valier once made this trick in the end of the game... and I can't forget it.

Okay. Most of these suspicions are mainly hunches. Maybe I've seen too many marvellous tricks by the baddies to still cling into the possibility... but having possibly only innocent mates like Xyzzy and The Sixth to cling into it kind of ladens the burden on one's shoulder... And that would be just so darn unfair!

I hope I can say something more definitive later on as I wake up again (RL).

And to be earnest in the end of my day (RL) I must say that Xyzzy's defence was not the most convincing one I've seen...

EDIT: X'd with Rikae - don't know whether to read your last post as confirming my doubts or releasing you of them... Maybe you're too forward-going with your innocence (your rangership)? In the end, Mac has not covered your status...

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 06:44 PM

My last word s before I go to sleep.

It all comes down to the Sixth.

-----
Please come around The Sixth!
-----

If he contests any of the claims being thrown around we should be really suspicious of the revealments so far and lynch either Rikae, Mac or The Sixth himself - considering on who do we believe. But if he tells us he's a normal villager I'm more than ready to go with Mac and Rikae - and congratulate them of a good game where they granted our victory so nicely.

All this waffling and wavering is due to us not knowing the roles in the end. Had we the definitive information about the roles this would be so much easier. But maybe this is the reason why this game seems so interesting indeed? So many open possibilities that you can't be sure even at this late stage of the game?

-----
Please come around The Sixth!
-----

PS. Rikae: It's not the question of timetables as such, it's a question of the willingness or daring to take part in the discussion. You have laid very low in this game and I can see the reason behind it as if you're the ranger you need to lay low from the gaze of the wolves. But I can see your changed activity as a wolf lying under the radar too and then coming forwards when there is difference to be made in a village where at least two of the remaining innocents just aren't actually playing the game in the first place.

Sorry to be this suspicious, but you know this is werewolf...

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 06:46 PM

I voted for Xyzzy because I trusted Mac's seerishness, plain and simple.
Look, if Mac was the wolf, why wouldn't he have killed someone last night? It would be five to one. Would he miss the chance to kill, say, Mith? HE would have known Nogrod would be protected.
If I was the wolf, why wouldn't I have killed someone - probably Nogrod?
The real wolf tried to kill the very same person I said he should. A trick? It would be a wasted night, then, by a drastically outnumbered wolf.

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

PS. Rikae: It's not the question of timetables as such, it's a question of the willingness or daring to take part in the discussion. You have laid very low in this game and I can see the reason behind it as if you're the ranger you need to lay low from the gaze of the wolves. But I can see your changed activity as a wolf lying under the radar too and then coming forwards when there is difference to be made in a village where at least two of the remaining innocents just aren't actually playing the game in the first place.

Sorry to be this suspicious, but you know this is werewolf...

The real reason is far more mundane and pointless, as I'll elaborate on the admin thread.

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikae

The real reason is far more mundane and pointless, as I'll elaborate on the admin thread.

Sorry to have missed that. I just need some sleep now (4AM here now).

Let's hope we can bring this through toDay as a win for the villagers... I'm somewhat confident about it, but there's a nagging in the back of my neck and I try tro get rid of it tomorrow (RL). Hopefully you others are less trigger-happy as our self-proclaimed gifteds were. Let's see these things through before we vote...

Rikae made a good question earlier. If Mac is not the Seer then who is?

We have a few possibilities.

a) Mac is the Seer and has given us the information he has in earnest, as he should.

b) Mac is the Seer and gives us good knowledge, but is in cahoots with his lover Rikae (or Mith? or someone else?) and thence wins as we ignore his "mistress" by the way he wishes us to vote for Xyzzy.

c) The Sixth is the Seer and Mac took a risk that paid off as the Sixth doesn't seem to bother too much of this game.

d) There is no Seer to begin with - and thence Mac's claim to it is a false one (a risk taken and seemingly paying off).

Personally I think the cases a) or b) are probable... But which one of them?

EDIT:
PS. I ignored the chances of Mith or Xyzzy being the Seer as they have been online after Mac's revelation and should have made their counter-claims already.

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 07:55 PM

Rikae: If you really drew the wolf to try and kill me with your post at the end of the last Day where you said I'm the one to be most probably killed that Night - and thence released the pressure from Mac - it was a gamble I really appreciate and will bow very low to give you credit for it. That would have been just excellent! That would have paid off just beautifully! Great rangering!

But

if you're having nasty ideas behind this and just wait for the moment you can start rejoicing your wicked victory with Mac, then again, all points to you. You've earned them! But in that case I'm trying to give it a fight still, however non-existent the backing of Xyzzy and The Sixth might be - I hope Mith at least takes a look and a stance as well in that case...

I'll sleep now on top of this and try to have a more balanced view of this tomorrow (RL).

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 08:37 PM

While I confess I've always found Mac's wit and intelligence rather attractive, I think I'm a bit too old for him.

Macalaure · 04-14-2007, 01:48 AM

'Yea, we will drink xyzzy's blood gladly, that so we may forget the blood of Gil-Galad our master, and the blood of Legate slain unjustly. Let us slay him swiftly!'

To those who doubt me: check the circumstances under which I revealed. At the time, I thought myself to be in danger of being killed at night. I wasn't in danger of being lynched at all, so why should I have taken that risk? I even would have sacrificed a fairly unsuspected Lommy in the course of it. If I was a wolf who had to fear the existance of a seer, it would've been a truly horrible gamble.
I also would have chosen an earlier point of time on the Day, so that I could make sure Lommy would really be lynched.

Of course, I haven't dreamt of Rikae, so there is a slight chance that she is another wolf and probably Six the ranger. I doubt that, especially since what Rikae has told us of her interaction with Roa sounds very coherent. *listens quietly whether he hears Roa slamming her head against her keyboard from afar*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

We have a few possibilities.

a) Mac is the Seer and has given us the information he has in earnest, as he should.

b) Mac is the Seer and gives us good knowledge, but is in cahoots with his lover Rikae (or Mith? or someone else?) and thence wins as we ignore his "mistress" by the way he wishes us to vote for Xyzzy.

c) The Sixth is the Seer and Mac took a risk that paid off as the Sixth doesn't seem to bother too much of this game.

d) There is no Seer to begin with - and thence Mac's claim to it is a false one (a risk taken and seemingly paying off).

For c) and d), see above. It would have been too risky for a wolf, at least if it includes sacrificing his companion, leaving no backdoor for victory if the gamble fails. The timing would have been bad, too.
Concerning b),... are you suggesting a seer lover? Well, it's an interesting idea to have a seer whose concern isn't the good of the village, but, as far as I know, this would be a new kind of role, and Menel said he wouldn't invent new things.

This leaves a).

Quote:

While I confess I've always found Mac's wit and intelligence rather attractive, I think I'm a bit too old for him.

Thanks a lot! I'm really flattered and can only say the same of you in turn (the part before the comma, of course).

However, it's seems that, despite all attractiveness, you have never bothered to ever look up my member profile.

*points to birthdates*

Mithalwen · 04-14-2007, 04:15 AM

Blimey....

I will look more carefully but I have to bear in mind that Nogrod has a brain that functions at a higher level than mine and that in previous games from the privelieged position of mod or dead gifted I have seen him bark up some wonderfully crafted intellectualy but completely wrong trees.

I will examine all because I would hate to be "done up like a kipper" but in many ways Xyzzy being the last wolf is the most likely speculation.

I still think he was the most likely to have missed a kill with lommy tied up and I am sure that a more active wolf would have taken the very present opportunity to get me lynched (though I have to say that apart from when I was hit by a fit of sarcasm my posts seem quite reasonable to me...). Also I would indeed have been a very "safe" kill last night (and fully expected to be dead) . I know I am an accountant and notice this more than most but it is something to bear in mind - was exposure more a risk than numbers.

However at this stage there is only one thing to do and that is reread everything with the hypotheses in mind - it is how I found out a wolvish Anguirel in the end..

It will take time but since I am here I will organise my day to allow for it! However I doubt I will have firm conclusions til later ....late afternoon say....

The Sixth Wizard · 04-14-2007, 04:39 AM

Yes people I have come around!

Quote:

'Yea, we will drink xyzzy's blood gladly, that so we may forget the blood of Gil-Galad our master, and the blood of Legate slain unjustly. Let us slay him swiftly!'

How bloodthirsty this Werewolf is...

Quote:

Six is acting weird, but that seems to be his style

and

Quote:

The Sixth surely looks like he's quite lost many times but he also posts things that at least look pretty complicated.

This probably comes from me being quite a bit younger and also more eccentric than you. Plus I'm not that experienced at Werewolf, obviously. Believe me when I say I am not at all offended.

Seeing as my answer is apparently of 'utmost importance', I would like to reveal that I am an (albiet deluded) normal villager. I have no special role and though I must admit Legate's analysis of me was extraordinary, all of the material comes from a lack of experience in Werewolf. I have now learned not to put too much trust in one player and also to not hold a grudge against players like Legate and Gil-Galad who accuse me.

I am just a regular villager. There you go! Believe it or don't!

. . . Anyway we've almost certainly won this game, if Mac is a real Seer, which I think he is.

And without further ado, I might as well vote.

<EDIT>

Shade of Carn Dum! Yessss!

<DOUBLE EDIT>

I don't see a reason to not vote xyzzy. I kinda can relate to a newbie though. Ah well.

++xyzzy

Mithalwen · 04-14-2007, 05:15 AM

Ah well with 4 non retractable votes gone and 3 for Xyzzy forgive me Noggin dear for not spending a glorious spring day in a futile exercise to humour you

.

If I wish to frowst inside I have 3 RPG posts to do....

And maybe if all vote.. Menel will put us out of our misery immediately:

After all I was the first to want him out of the way - how ironic that this is effectively merely a show of solidarity...

++Xyzzy

Nogrod · 04-14-2007, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sixth

I would like to reveal that I am an (albiet deluded) normal villager. I have no special role

That kind of seals this then. With no contesting claims I'm more than happy and relieved to join the gang.

++ Xyzzy

Hooray!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mith

in previous games from the privelieged position of mod or dead gifted I have seen him bark up some wonderfully crafted intellectualy but completely wrong trees.

I've been fooled pretty elaborately at the last meters before *coughValiercough* so I wish to see the options - and the reactions to trhem - first...

A little add-on just to tease you friends: Now I'm pretty amazed that we have no one to fight for Xyzzy as his lover... I was indeed pretty confident that we'll have a pair of lovers involved in this game. And as we can't be certain about what roles there are in the first place, that leaves a window open for surprises still... but okay. Enough for me. If there is a secret plan behind all this, I'll be glad to congratulate the winners for an excellent performance.

xyzzy · 04-14-2007, 09:22 AM

I'm as good as dead, now...

...Congratulations, innocents. You've won now.

Now could someone PLEASE explain to me what these Lover roles are, before I die? I've been dying to know, but the ignorance alibi (Who's Lommy, what's their gender, etc.) would have become quite apparent if I suddenly had a real moment of ignorance.

I don't suppose it's too late to enter the Witness Protection Program, is it now? Oh well. Next time, I won't be taken down quite so neatly.

I've considered the idea of hosting an enormous 100+ player game of Werewolf, with lots of people from lots of forums; if I do that, I'm definitely not allowing Meta-discussion. Or is that discussion of Meta, because Meta-discussion would merely be a higher level of conversation, and of course people who've never met each other should be allowed to talk to each other! Now Meta-Meta-conversation, I'd have to limit that, since we don't want people getting confused by referencing other games as if they are this game. And Meta-Meta-Meta-conversation, that would just be stupid.

Anyway, congratulations on being a lot craftier than me.

Rikae · 04-14-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

However, it's seems that, despite all attractiveness, you have never bothered to ever look up my member profile.

*points to birthdates*

Oh, but you see, I'm terribly old. I'm a Numenorean, after all. 69 is like 29 for the Dúnedain!

So, it looks like we won, Nogrod's fascinating but misguided conspiracy-theories notwithstanding (I always enjoy watching Noggie's thought process; some day when I'm evil again I may use one of his schemes

) - maybe Menel-mod will post the final narration early, since we're all here (I think)? I fancy restless spirits are hovering about, eager for after-game disctussion!

Xyzzy - Lovers are two players whose goal is to be the last ones alive; one is a wolf and one an ordo, I believe, and if one dies the other does as well.

Meneltarmacil · 04-14-2007, 11:14 AM

Well, since all the votes seem to be in, I really see no need to delay any longer.

The villagers gathered once again, hauling xyzzy with them.

"Seriously, I'm innocent!" the merchant shouted. "Are you sure you don't want to buy some exotic spices?"

"Be quiet!" Macalaure answered.

"Alright! I've had enough of you villagers! Prepare to die!" said xyzzy. He grew larger and sprouted dark fur. He let out a howl at the rising moon, bared his fangs, and rushed at the villagers, who started running in terror.

Rikae, however, stood her ground. The Ranger drew her sword and leaped upon the charging beast. Xyzzy tried to throw her off, but she held on tightly as she plunged the sword into the wolf, who died shortly thereafter.

The village was safe. All the wolves were finally gone.

Alive:
Macalaure (Seer)
Mithalwen (Ordinary Villager)
Nogrod (Ordinary Villager)
Rikae (Ranger)
The Sixth Wizard (Ordinary Villager)

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3
Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4
Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordinary Villager): Pitchforked by villagers on Day 4
xyzzy (Werewolf): Almost lynched by Villagers but then slain by Ranger on Day 5

Villagers win!

Post-game discussion may now begin.

xyzzy · 04-14-2007, 11:40 AM

Congrats, innocents.

How long does it take for new games to start around here? I swear, I won't be beaten so easily next time.

Rikae · 04-14-2007, 12:50 PM

So, wolves, did you think Roa was the ranger? Did you ever suspect I was bluffing about protecting Mac? Why did you kill Brinniel? Why the missed kill? Come one, enlighten us!

Macalaure · 04-14-2007, 01:03 PM

Well, this was a truly paranoid game. It's a pity you didn't get your desired number of player, Menel. The game would have been completely insane.

There was a time during the game where I was afraid that I might be a False Seer and was leading the village astray unwittingly.

Excellent rangering, Rikae!

Lommy, I'm almost sorry I caught you. It was much more luck than cunning. You played very well: Legate was the only one of all to suspect you without help or evil intent.

I still don't entirely believe that Nogrod was innocent. Surely Menel made a fault there.

The Sixth Wizard · 04-14-2007, 03:21 PM

Thanks to everywere involved in my first Werewolf game. I have certainly learned a lot from you and . . . and . . . it's benefited me by . . . well I will probably be much better at lying to people thanks to you!

As to the game itself I was in manacles half the time. Lommy played me like puppet on strings, and it was extraordinarily well-done, fueled by my blasted self satisfaction and arrogance! My hat comes off to you!

(it was the only smiley with a hat)

It's a bit of a relief to see there weren't too many complicated roles, because that means not too many other people were manipulating me.

I hope though, the next time I play, it won't be the 'Unknown Enemies' again because that was quite confusing at times.

Was Rikae's rangering excellent because she didn't let up too much, lasting all the way to the end? Could people tell us of the strategies they used during the middle point of the game? a.k.a Mac, Rikae, Roa, TGWBS, Werewolves.

Nogrod · 04-14-2007, 04:57 PM

Yay!

Good game everyone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac

Well, this was a truly paranoid game. It's a pity you didn't get your desired number of player, Menel. The game would have been completely insane.

To the point. But it also showed that even a small game with enough insecurity concerning the basic information can be a real treat. I enjoyed this to the fullest - and it was nice to last to the end and win for a change...

Quote:

I still don't entirely believe that Nogrod was innocent. Surely Menel made a fault there.

It's easy to say when you have the information the ordo lacks...

But really, a special thanks to our gifteds, all of you! Even if you were badly mistaken with the role of one innocent villager you played the game coolly to the end, and reasonably. Roa and Rikae played together beautifully and Mac had good instincts with his dreams - and the revealment even though it looked a bit premature at the time (one of the reasons I was suspicious of it to begin with) turned out to be the winning move!

Sorry that I needed to wait until The Sixth came on with his confession of being the ordo he was. But as I said, I've been fooled before at the last moments and will never wish to let that happen again.

And yes, if my conspiracy-theories would have been true, this would have been even more remarkable game.

So Mac and Rikae, take this as a compliment if you wish, but I actually thought you would be cabable to pull the trick and thence needed the comfirmation of the Sixth.

The Sixth and Xyzzy: I hope to see you soon in a game of werewolf again. I think you got the basics now. Just reserve some time to it and play actively. It's a lots of fun.

I loved this, again. Thanks to you people.

Gil-Galad · 04-14-2007, 05:27 PM

You know what i have noticied out of every werewolf game... my hunches on who the wolves are are usually 3-out-of-4 or 2-out-of-3 (depending on game) so you people should pay more attention to me now... now if i was the seer, oh how i could root out the wolves...

Thinlómien · 04-14-2007, 05:50 PM

That was a very nice game, although I'm still slightly unhappy about having such bad luck with getting online. Well played everyone, special hats off to Menel, the gifteds and Nogrod and his awesome conspiracy theories...

Oh, and I'm sure you wish to hear my thoughts about the Days and Nights - and even if you don't, I've got to explain them to somebody!

Night1
I sent one longish PM to Glirdy and xyzzy, but neither replied - it seems they missed the beginning of the game. So we did not plot anything on Night1. (Except that I recommended to xyzzy, that he maybe shouldn't be familiar with the nickname Lommy - I signed the PM as Lommy - since it is not 100% obvious it comes from Thinlómien: I actually said he shouldn't use that nickname before someone else does. Xyzzy however did far more than that, pretending he had never even heard that name - and it worked miraculously well on one Day! Kudos to xyzzy for that!)

Day1
Disclaimer: I did not intentionally disencourage anyone to vote Glirdy! That never was part of my tactics. That "maybe too suspicious to be guilty" argument was brought because I thought I shouldn't look too sure so early - that's something that sometimes gives out wolf-on-wolf -votes... And even though Mith hinted I might be revenging my fenrisity to the world, that was not the case either...

As quite many people said, it was the only reasonable vote to make at that phase - and I must confess that even though I had a feeling that Glirdy might be lynched I didn't feel too bad about that vote.

Night2
That was an "ouch". I sent a PM to xyzzy quite early, giving a list of who I would like to see dead (including Brinn, Legate and Mith at least, if I recall correctly) and asked him to make the final decision and send it to Menel. When I returned to the 'downs the next day, I had a PM from xyzzy that said "I'm so confused, you play this game here so differently from what I've seen" and discovered that no wolf kill had been submitted. So, you see, missing the kill was plain confusion and bad timetables from our part.

Day2
Well, I had some problems in trying to sound genuine: this was the day when I realised how hard work it is to be a wolf when you have to fabricate all your thoughts and be consistent. I almost voted Mac. I maybe should have...

Night3
I had an sms from Nogrod that the Day3 was to begin late Monday night our time, not late Tuesday night as we (or I at least) had assumed. I had a problem. I have no net access home and all libraries were closed because it was Easter Monday. I wasn't sure if I could trust xyzzy to be around and send a kill, because he had been so absent at times. I called my friend, who is also a member called Aganzir here. I asked her some questions about what had happened on Day2 (I hadn't even read it through since I had been without a net access since voting that day), decided to kill Brinn, and asked Aganzir to send the kill to Menel. She sent it and explained my situation, and obviously Menel accepted the kill (which came in a quite extraordinary way). And I did not kill Brinn because she had said she'd take a better look at me - I was not even aware she had said that. I thought she was trusted and might even be gifted. I also thought that killing her would not take any important potential ally from me nor point at me or xyzzy. But actually I had received a PM from xyzzy that Night "are you there? If you're not responding soon, I will be sending in the name of Legate of Amon Lanc". I wonder what happened to that kill, since Brinn was obviously the one who died...

Day3
The misfortunes of that day have been explained on the admin thread...

Night3
Now this was something really funny. Again, I sent xyzzy a list of people I thought we should kill and asked him to make the final choice. I fell for Roa's trap and assumed she was the ranger. However - to my honour I must say the following - I didn't interpret Roa's words "don't worry Mac, the ranger will protect you at night" the most obvious way. I thought Roa was the ranger meaning she was not going to protect Mac during the Night. (I must admit it never crossed my mind why on earth would a ranger say something like this....) So I wrote to xyzzy, that I'd prefer killing Mac, because I thought the ranger wouldn't be protecting him that Night. I said that if he didn't want to take a risk he could make us kill Roa, who is a known innocent and might even be a ranger or then the Sixth Wizard to remove someone thought innocent and to create confusion. (I didn't want us to kill Mith or Nog because I hought they might be my potential allies the next day in case I was going to make some crazy bluff and contest Mac's claim.) I wrote this PM at school. Then I went to spend the night with friend, and forgot about ww for hours. However, going home, a realisation hit me. I was 95% sure Roa was the hunter. It was still a few hours 'til the deadline. If I had had a computer with a net home, I would probably have contacted xyzzy or Menel and tried to prevent the Roa-kill (since I was fairly sure xyzzy wanted to kill her). But as I didn't have, I let the thing be (even though I might have asked Aganzir to help me again, but I didn't consider it that important). I thought that Roa's such a gambler that she might well hunt someone else than me. I was wrong. But isn't it quite ironic that we attacked someone I knew was the hunter and guessed that might be after me?

Seems it got quite long... ...

Brinniel · 04-14-2007, 06:14 PM

(I'm copying and pasting this from the admin thread)

So, apparently I'm really really bad at werewolf. I even attempted to do a deeper analysis than I did for my first game, and still I was way off. Oh well...sorry guys. *bangs head against desk for stupidity*

The main problem is I think I spent a lot of time searching for some sort of conspiracy. I felt so certain there would be some sort role like Lovers that would be difficult to seek out. Even when I was just watching the game, I thought there could easily be false gifteds...the idea seemed so tricksy (plus it would've been rather entertaining to watch). When I look back at it, the clues to finding the wolves were laid out quite plainly (though that was partly due to meta-reasons). I guess I just didn't think it would be that easy...

Kudos to Lommy though, who had me completely fooled. Though, I would still like to know why I was chosen for a kill. Here I was, defending a wolf and accusing two innocents. I think it would've been so easy to get me lynched if you really wanted to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa

*imagines Brinniel screaming at her screen because everyone is dismissing her death as uninformative*

Hehe...I admit that made me laugh.

But hey...I can't be mad because it's true. My death was basically an uninformative one. Heh...oh well. Sorry again...

I think the only time I was actually screaming at the computer was when everyone decided to lynch Legate. I just couldn't believe he was a wolf...

Okay, where's the admin thread for the next game already? I may be bad at werewolf, but sadly enough, after only two games I am very addicted. I have no self-discipline...

Brinniel · 04-14-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lommy

And I did not kill Brinn because she had said she'd take a better look at me - I was not even aware she had said that. I thought she was trusted and might even be gifted. I also thought that killing her would not take any important potential ally from me nor point at me or xyzzy. But actually I had received a PM from xyzzy that Night "are you there? If you're not responding soon, I will be sending in the name of Legate of Amon Lanc". I wonder what happened to that kill, since Brinn was obviously the one who died...

Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense now.

Roa_Aoife · 04-14-2007, 07:23 PM

Well done, everyone- that game was certainly fun. Despite the loss, the baddies did very well. So then, here's the plotting from my side- Rikae can add her side as she chooses.

Rikae and I were allowed to PM during the Day only. This wasn't a huge problem for the most part, since we were both around at the begining of every Day. However, the end of each day was messy, since I was not around, and Rikae had information she wanted to check with me. This actually resulted in a funny occurance when on Night 2, I hunted Nogrod and she protected him.

Day 1
I started with my now infamous "Catch All" post about possible roles. I had a double purpose for that- one was to move the discussion along and into actual work; the other was to look for people who insisted on continuing the debate and carry the discussion away from the all important goal of catching wolves. (And it worked- TGWBS's continuation of it tripped my alarms.) Rikae and I PMed each other to discuss strategy and our roles, etc. For the record, I would not have made a kill if lynched. We decided to take the middle road- not ignore each other, not exonerate each other, and not heavily suspect each other. She posted her response to my post with another dual purpose- keeping up a distance between us, and looking for people to jump on the suspicion. (Another Baddie caught with Glirdan!)

Night 2
For better or for worse, I had signed off for the Day just as Nogrod was becoming active, so I could only read and review what had been posted while I was out. Nogrod's post seemed horribly off to me somehow, and I chose to hunt him because of it. If it makes you feel better, Nogrod, the thought of you as a wolf had me hoping for death so I could take you out with me; I was that worried about it.

Day 2
Rikae and I made our discoveries. At first we thought Nogrod had been attacked and protected, so we thought he was a known innocent. (That's what I get for reading the game thread before the admin thread.) Then we realized the truth of the matter. While she explained to me via PM why she thought he was innocent, I worked on an analysis of him to better explain why I suspected him. We also openly debated on the thread to further show distance between us- making it apparent that we couldn't commincate otherwise. I quite seriously suspected him. I mean, caution is all well and good, but everything should be taken in moderation. Something about the way he talked so much without saying anything reminded me of a wolvish SPM.

Night 3
I hunted Gil, for the reasons in the thread. Rikae had asked me prior if I had an opinion on whom to protect. I thought Sixth, because everyone pretty much trusted him except Gil (whom I thought was evil.)

Day 3
I was really getting tired of living, so I started dropping Ranger hints. (That's what the surprise about the Brinniel kill was about.) I have a chart that I use every game for keeping track of who suspects / votes for whom, and I busied myself filling it out for each Day, and cross-checking, etc. (In case your wondering, I kick butt at Clue.) That's how I found Brinniel's remark about checking out Lommy. Nogrod's case against me was based entirely on an unproven theory about TGWBS, so I was even more suspicious of him.
Also, Rikae and I started to worry that no one was suspecting her and the wolves would kill her because of it. I did my "analysis" of her to throw suspicion in her direction with out getting her lynched. Turns out it wasn't even necessary.
However, as I was about to make my final post before leaving for work, my husband's recruiter called to tell us that Mr. Roa was to be shipped out the very next day, as opposed to several months from now, which is what we had been expecting. You may notice that that post seems a bit rushed- it's because I was in full blown panic and trying (and failing) to keep calm. We were called back 10 minutes later to be told it was false alarm. If it was possible to kill someone via phone, I assure you the tech sergeant would no longer be with us. I did the only thing I could- vote my top suspect and leave.
When I came back, I only had 30 minutes to catch up, and I had just enough time to drop my final Ranger hint. I sent a pm to Rikae, telling her to protect Mac, just incase the wolves didn't take the bait.

Night 4
Never have I been so happy to be killed by the wolves. I hunted Lommy with yet another dual purpose in mind- one to kill a potential wolf, and one to prove if Mac was lying. I had the crazy idea that Nogrod and Lommy were lovers, so I half expected to read my death scene on Day 4 as having 3 dead, instead of two.

That's my end. I was truly shocked to hear that Nogrod was innocent the next Day, though all his talk about lovers made me wonder if I was right about him being one.

Rikae · 04-14-2007, 08:14 PM

Well...my strategy for the first few days is pretty much covered in Roa's post. I thought Nogrod was innocent & his vote placement on day 1 would make him universally trusted, and therefore he'd be a likely wolf kill, so I protected him on night 1. I was quite surprised when Roa pm'd the next day to say she hunted him.

Night 2, I protected Sixth, as Roa suggested.
Day 3, like I said in the game, I thought Mac was lying because he gave no indication whatsoever of knowing Roa's role (I thought he would have dropped some kind of hint if he did), but after Gil turned out to be innocent, I decided to be on the safe side and protect Mac on night 3.
On day 3, seeing Lommy was a wolf, I trusted Mac & thought I didn't have anything to lose (except my life

)by bluffing to protect him for one more night. At first I actually thought I would be killed if the wolf thought Mac was protected, but Nogrod's suspicions made me realize that wasn't necessarily the case. I mentioned the possibility Nogrod would be the kill primarily to reinforce the idea that Mac was protected; the fact that Xyzzy actually attacked Nogrod was just the "icing on the cake", so to speak. Obviously, I couldn't protect Mac or myself, so I protected Nogrod on night 4, betting Sixth or Xyzzy would 'follow my advice'.
Nogrod actually had me a little worried on the last day, with his suspicion that Mac and I were lovers - which, in retrospect, was pretty cool because it kept the game exciting right to the end.
I think this may be the first time I've survived to the end of a game...maybe the second.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 04-15-2007, 01:54 AM

Well, you really didn't have it easy, Ranghuns, and the better now your performance looks - I think you two made a very good cooperative team.
Lommy, from what you post it looks like you wolves have been quite unfortunate this time, even more now than it seemed to us "outsiders". However, it seems you really did what was in your power. After all, xyzzy fooled me pretty well with that Thinlómien-Lommy thing.
And where's tgwbs, that ol' cobbler? Did he have at least a clue of who the wolves are, or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I think the only time I was actually screaming at the computer was when everyone decided to lynch Legate. I just couldn't believe he was a wolf...

At least someone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Okay, where's the admin thread for the next game already? I may be bad at werewolf, but sadly enough, after only two games I am very addicted. I have no self-discipline...

My words!

the guy who be short · 04-15-2007, 06:21 AM

Dear Gott... Am I the worst cobbler EVER?

So, no, I had no real idea of who the wolves were. I don't think I had enough days for that. I went after Lommy on day one for attacking Glirdan, because people always attack him when they have no better leads. And I thought, hey, Lommy's a good player, why not try to get her lynched? Never once did I think the analysis I posted on the thread was true!

So, day 2 came along. I realised that, as Glirdan had been shown to be a wolf, I was in a very bad position for protecting him. Thinking I might die because of it, I decided to cause as much confusion as possible. I kept going after Lommy, trying to hint I was the Seer. I thought that one of Legate or Mac would be a wolf, trying to support me and help me lynch an innocent Lommy. If time zones had been more friendly, I would have revealed myself as a Seer near the end, and Lommy as a wolf. Then, when she was lynched and shown to actually be a wolf, I would seriously curse myself. The last remaining wolf would think I was actually the seer and be against me. Thank God I was lynched!

If anything, my death at that point was very helpful to the wolves. My theory about Lommy being a wolf seemed so incredibly contrived that suspicion turned away from her. If I'd lived and declared myself a seer, I'd almost certainly have got her lynched untimely.

Roa was spot on when she said that I was upset because I'd been planning a reveal! I really have to applaud her for her brilliance this game. However, I didn't really mean to go on about roles... all that stuff was actually sincere!

Worst cobbler ever? Do I get a prize?

Macalaure · 04-15-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

I thought that one of Legate or Mac would be a wolf, trying to support me and help me lynch an innocent Lommy. If time zones had been more friendly, I would have revealed myself as a Seer near the end, and Lommy as a wolf. Then, when she was lynched and shown to actually be a wolf, I would seriously curse myself. The last remaining wolf would think I was actually the seer and be against me. Thank God I was lynched!

Now that would have been incredible fun. Imagine you would've survived the night and got to play as a supposed seer! Maybe you even would have decided to claim to have dreamt of me being a wolf. They wouldn't have believed my counter-claim and lynched me instead!

Rikae · 04-15-2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGWBS

I would have revealed myself as a Seer near the end, and Lommy as a wolf. Then, when she was lynched and shown to actually be a wolf, I would seriously curse myself.

That's hilarious! That along with the protecting/hunting Nogrod thing...this had to be one of the funniest games I've been in.

x'd with Mac

Brinniel · 04-15-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac

Now that would have been incredible fun. Imagine you would've survived the night and got to play as a supposed seer! Maybe you even would have decided to claim to have dreamt of me being a wolf. They wouldn't have believed my counter-claim and lynched me instead!

Oh my!

Well, I must admit that would have been terribly entertaining if it had indeed happened. I'm not even sure how I would've reacted...

Macalaure · 04-15-2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Oh my!

Well, I must admit that would have been terribly entertaining if it had indeed happened. I'm not even sure how I would've reacted...

The horrible thing would have been that I would have had to tell people of my dreams, and all I could've said was: "Well, Lommy is evil.. umm.. was evil."

I doubt I would have been able to talk myself out of it.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 04-15-2007, 09:07 AM

Yes, possibly if tgwbs did that, and Lommy was lynched, then Mac couldn't say anything to prove he's right. Though at the moment Mac was lynched as fake seer, we would know he was the Seer, and tgwbs would go as well. Though, there will still be one wolf left, and no seer, so who knows...
Only if we wouldn't conclude that Menel decided to give us two seers, which would speak for tgwbs and maybe he could make yet some mess...

xyzzy · 04-15-2007, 12:16 PM

Heh, my strategy for the whole game was feigning ignorance of how any of the roles work, and it worked, since little differences do exist. Unfortunately, by the time I realized I wouldn't be able to send a list for night 2, it was too late; otherwise, the game may have been very different.

I'm kind of mad that no one believed my accusation of Macalaure at the ned, but I suppose it would have been better when we first found out that Mac was the Seer.

Did people assume I had some sort of master strategy behind playing the game in a completely opposite fashion, or did it just make me look like a moron? Either way, it's an accurate interpretation.

Nogrod · 04-15-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyzzy

Did people assume I had some sort of master strategy behind playing the game in a completely opposite fashion, or did it just make me look like a moron? Either way, it's an accurate interpretation.

I wouldn't say either. But you were a bit quiet to say the least...

It is a discussion that has been made quite a few times and I don't want to unleash the debate once again. But to just make the point in a mild way that I think many of the werewolf-players here might agree, I would say that as everything in this game is based on what people say it's not so nice if some people just stay quiet as then the others have nothing to chew on them and it becomes a matter of simple "heads and tails". I mean if everyone just threw oneliners (I'm not saying you did that all the game) there would be no game in the first place, just random voting.

Surely people have different strategies and personalities and everyone should be able to play with the style that fits them or which they wish to adopt in any given game. But something like a little above the absolute minimum participation shows the sportsmanship at least I value highly in my fellow-players, be they on my side or be they my adversaries. Participating players make the game interesting and challenging and thus enjoyable.

But this was your first game so please do not read this as a negative feedback of any sort. As I saw the other games you have been playing I can see there is a difference and it must have been pretty hard to adjust to our style here.

I hope you enjoy playing BD-werewolf for many games to come!

**The Saucepan Man** · 04-15-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I would say that as everything in this game is based on what people say it's not so nice if some people just stay quiet as then the others have nothing to chew on them and it becomes a matter of simple "heads and tails".

Here we go again ...

I'm sure that I have said it before, but I rather like the mix of different players. Admittedly, if everyone stuck to one liners, the game wouldn't be such fun. But having some players who do just adds to the spice. The old "what do to with Gil?" conundrum.

That said, I most certainly would not wish to dissuade you from your new approach, Gil, as I regard it as a most positive development. I thought that they were all rather rotten for killing you off, just as you were upping your level of engagement.

And there may well be something in this claim of yours for having good instincts, at least on the evidence of the past few games.

Anyway, a fun game to watch. My views on who the Wolves were changing daily until the reveals started coming in. And I was surprised to see that Glirdan actually was a Wolf, as I always find those who look the most suspicious among the least suspicious, and certainly on Day One. In any event, I rather like games where the roles are not known, as it keeps everyone guessing.

So, well done Menel for a great modding job, and well done villagers for the win - ably assisted by some great Gifteds. Bad luck, Wolves. It's a shame that you were hampered by communication problems, as the game might have been quite different had you not been.

~An avid Werewolf spectator~

Nogrod · 04-15-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I'm sure that I have said it before, but I rather like the mix of different players. Admittedly, if everyone stuck to one liners, the game wouldn't be such fun. But having some players who do just adds to the spice. The old "what do to with Gil?" conundrum.

You're right. The mix at least grants the shared focus of discussion over what to do with them in games where there is suddenly no other good ideas about what to talk of...

But the quiets have been seldomly lynched early in the game so they kind of inbalance the game in favour of the wolves in the end. When I'm a wolf I have no problem with that. I may bark on it in the thread but by Night I'm most strict of not killing them as it is the task of the villagers to do it if they're in doubt about the goals of them...

But yes, variety is good.

I probably just wanted to say that some minimal attendance would be welcomed. The oneliners (no one person thought here in special) can use all the talk of the louder ones to make their strategies but the louder ones have nothing for the oneliners. That's an inbalance I don't like myself. As you said Spm, the game needs people who speak. Without it there is no game. So just hanging on with oneliners is a bit parasitic in a way...

Quote:

Here we go again ...

Hopefully not in the length and seriousity this has been carried on some earlier times. I do not think I'm thinking about this matter in any extreme way nowadays. Indeed the way Gil played this time made me feel really good about him (and I can't see why people wished to lynch him anyway).

Gah. I'm pretty happy with the game we had in this regard. So maybe I'll just shut up...

PS. Nice new avatar Spm!

Mithalwen · 04-16-2007, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

That said, I most certainly would not wish to dissuade you from your new approach, Gil, as I regard it as a most positive development. I thought that they were all rather rotten for killing you off, just as you were upping your level of engagement.

And there may well be something in this claim of yours for having good instincts, at least on the evidence of the past few games.

~An avid Werewolf spectator~

Sauce, do you think maybe you need a twelve step programme

a I do think it is great that Gil is participating .. and I was impressed by his picks last game.. but you can't blame me for fighting back......

What I really thougyht was funny though was how Lommy was quite so desperate to see me dead and her reasoning when weknew she was furry....

It was still a relief though since it disproved the possibility that I was a Mythomaniac..that IS spellt with a Y people

the guy who be short · 04-16-2007, 05:43 AM

So, how did people feel about role naivety? I loved it, and think it should be implemented in future games. It adds to the role-play side of things, not knowing about roles.

I think mods could have a LOT of fun with the idea in future.

04-13-2007, 05:58 PM	#401
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	"Not to mention them both being nicely around to hammer the vote of toDay down as the first posts of toDay. It's so smooth and clear..." Why wouldn't I be around? The day starts at 6 pm my time, and obviously I would want to check and see if my little scheme paid off. As it did, and I certainly hope that you don't spoil it now! pouts After all, I saved your life, buddy! You owe me one. (j/k) It would actually be kind of cool if you lynched me now and threw away the victory. Trust me, I would never let you forget it! Last edited by Rikae; 04-13-2007 at 06:07 PM.

04-13-2007, 06:14 PM	#402
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	The thing that got me alarmed in the first place toDay was that both Mac and Rikae ran on Xyzzy at the begining of the Day by voting him indeed. Who could be an easier lynch than him? So being lovers you would have chosen the perfect sacrifice as we all would be relieved by the "knowledge" that the non-pariticipant Xyzzy indeed is the villain. How good and comfortable we would feel indeed! And the most myself, as I would have been saved by Rikae - meaning that Xyzzy-wolf would have been following the game enough to pick me as the subject of the kill. I don't want to under-estimate anyone's capabilities or engagement as such, but choosing me last Night from all the players would require someone who really follows what happens... and this doesn't fit with the general profile I get from Xyzzy (you saw the games he showed as an example of the games he normally plays - quite far from this). Although his willing to actually take part and to defend himself so eagerly as soon as he was openly suspected (well, claimed the wolf indeed) would speak really bad of him as well. I admit, that if Mac and Rikae are true it's just logical. If Mac is the Seer he should have chosen from between Xyzzy and The Sixth and I can also see why he chose Xyzzy for his dream. But the problem is, they both are capable ewnough to be logical baddies as well. So the logic will probably not help us much here. What troubles me more is Rikae. Yes, she may indeed be the ranger and thence I must thank her for the possibility of being here toDay in the first place. bows If it really is that way I duly appreciate it. But somehow I still can't get the itch away from me that this is too simple and clean - that there is a scheme behind all this... She has made so many suspicious moves as well... and leaving me alive the "Last Day" would be just beautiful. Valier once made this trick in the end of the game... and I can't forget it. Okay. Most of these suspicions are mainly hunches. Maybe I've seen too many marvellous tricks by the baddies to still cling into the possibility... but having possibly only innocent mates like Xyzzy and The Sixth to cling into it kind of ladens the burden on one's shoulder... And that would be just so darn unfair! I hope I can say something more definitive later on as I wake up again (RL). And to be earnest in the end of my day (RL) I must say that Xyzzy's defence was not the most convincing one I've seen... EDIT: X'd with Rikae - don't know whether to read your last post as confirming my doubts or releasing you of them... Maybe you're too forward-going with your innocence (your rangership)? In the end, Mac has not covered your status... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... Last edited by Nogrod; 04-13-2007 at 06:17 PM.

04-13-2007, 06:44 PM	#403
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	My last word s before I go to sleep. It all comes down to the Sixth. ----- Please come around The Sixth! ----- If he contests any of the claims being thrown around we should be really suspicious of the revealments so far and lynch either Rikae, Mac or The Sixth himself - considering on who do we believe. But if he tells us he's a normal villager I'm more than ready to go with Mac and Rikae - and congratulate them of a good game where they granted our victory so nicely. All this waffling and wavering is due to us not knowing the roles in the end. Had we the definitive information about the roles this would be so much easier. But maybe this is the reason why this game seems so interesting indeed? So many open possibilities that you can't be sure even at this late stage of the game? ----- Please come around The Sixth! ----- PS. Rikae: It's not the question of timetables as such, it's a question of the willingness or daring to take part in the discussion. You have laid very low in this game and I can see the reason behind it as if you're the ranger you need to lay low from the gaze of the wolves. But I can see your changed activity as a wolf lying under the radar too and then coming forwards when there is difference to be made in a village where at least two of the remaining innocents just aren't actually playing the game in the first place. Sorry to be this suspicious, but you know this is werewolf... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

04-13-2007, 07:55 PM	#407
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Rikae: If you really drew the wolf to try and kill me with your post at the end of the last Day where you said I'm the one to be most probably killed that Night - and thence released the pressure from Mac - it was a gamble I really appreciate and will bow very low to give you credit for it. That would have been just excellent! That would have paid off just beautifully! Great rangering! But if you're having nasty ideas behind this and just wait for the moment you can start rejoicing your wicked victory with Mac, then again, all points to you. You've earned them! But in that case I'm trying to give it a fight still, however non-existent the backing of Xyzzy and The Sixth might be - I hope Mith at least takes a look and a stance as well in that case... I'll sleep now on top of this and try to have a more balanced view of this tomorrow (RL). __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

04-14-2007, 04:15 AM	#410
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,449	Blimey.... I will look more carefully but I have to bear in mind that Nogrod has a brain that functions at a higher level than mine and that in previous games from the privelieged position of mod or dead gifted I have seen him bark up some wonderfully crafted intellectualy but completely wrong trees. I will examine all because I would hate to be "done up like a kipper" but in many ways Xyzzy being the last wolf is the most likely speculation. I still think he was the most likely to have missed a kill with lommy tied up and I am sure that a more active wolf would have taken the very present opportunity to get me lynched (though I have to say that apart from when I was hit by a fit of sarcasm my posts seem quite reasonable to me...). Also I would indeed have been a very "safe" kill last night (and fully expected to be dead) . I know I am an accountant and notice this more than most but it is something to bear in mind - was exposure more a risk than numbers. However at this stage there is only one thing to do and that is reread everything with the hypotheses in mind - it is how I found out a wolvish Anguirel in the end.. It will take time but since I am here I will organise my day to allow for it! However I doubt I will have firm conclusions til later ....late afternoon say.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

04-13-2007, 06:46 PM	#404
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	I voted for Xyzzy because I trusted Mac's seerishness, plain and simple. Look, if Mac was the wolf, why wouldn't he have killed someone last night? It would be five to one. Would he miss the chance to kill, say, Mith? HE would have known Nogrod would be protected. If I was the wolf, why wouldn't I have killed someone - probably Nogrod? The real wolf tried to kill the very same person I said he should. A trick? It would be a wasted night, then, by a drastically outnumbered wolf. EDIT: X'd with Nogrod

04-13-2007, 08:37 PM	#408
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	While I confess I've always found Mac's wit and intelligence rather attractive, I think I'm a bit too old for him.

04-14-2007, 05:15 AM	#412
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,449	Ah well with 4 non retractable votes gone and 3 for Xyzzy forgive me Noggin dear for not spending a glorious spring day in a futile exercise to humour you . If I wish to frowst inside I have 3 RPG posts to do.... And maybe if all vote.. Menel will put us out of our misery immediately: After all I was the first to want him out of the way - how ironic that this is effectively merely a show of solidarity... ++Xyzzy __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

04-14-2007, 09:22 AM	#414
xyzzy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ozark, MO Posts: 53	I'm as good as dead, now... ...Congratulations, innocents. You've won now. Now could someone PLEASE explain to me what these Lover roles are, before I die? I've been dying to know, but the ignorance alibi (Who's Lommy, what's their gender, etc.) would have become quite apparent if I suddenly had a real moment of ignorance. I don't suppose it's too late to enter the Witness Protection Program, is it now? Oh well. Next time, I won't be taken down quite so neatly. I've considered the idea of hosting an enormous 100+ player game of Werewolf, with lots of people from lots of forums; if I do that, I'm definitely not allowing Meta-discussion. Or is that discussion of Meta, because Meta-discussion would merely be a higher level of conversation, and of course people who've never met each other should be allowed to talk to each other! Now Meta-Meta-conversation, I'd have to limit that, since we don't want people getting confused by referencing other games as if they are this game. And Meta-Meta-Meta-conversation, that would just be stupid. Anyway, congratulations on being a lot craftier than me.

04-14-2007, 11:14 AM	#416
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Well, since all the votes seem to be in, I really see no need to delay any longer. The villagers gathered once again, hauling xyzzy with them. "Seriously, I'm innocent!" the merchant shouted. "Are you sure you don't want to buy some exotic spices?" "Be quiet!" Macalaure answered. "Alright! I've had enough of you villagers! Prepare to die!" said xyzzy. He grew larger and sprouted dark fur. He let out a howl at the rising moon, bared his fangs, and rushed at the villagers, who started running in terror. Rikae, however, stood her ground. The Ranger drew her sword and leaped upon the charging beast. Xyzzy tried to throw her off, but she held on tightly as she plunged the sword into the wolf, who died shortly thereafter. The village was safe. All the wolves were finally gone. Alive: Macalaure (Seer) Mithalwen (Ordinary Villager) Nogrod (Ordinary Villager) Rikae (Ranger) The Sixth Wizard (Ordinary Villager) Dead: Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1 Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1 the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2 Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3 Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3 Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4 Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4 Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordinary Villager): Pitchforked by villagers on Day 4 xyzzy (Werewolf): Almost lynched by Villagers but then slain by Ranger on Day 5 Villagers win! Post-game discussion may now begin. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

04-14-2007, 11:40 AM	#417
xyzzy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ozark, MO Posts: 53	Congrats, innocents. How long does it take for new games to start around here? I swear, I won't be beaten so easily next time.

04-14-2007, 12:50 PM	#418
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	So, wolves, did you think Roa was the ranger? Did you ever suspect I was bluffing about protecting Mac? Why did you kill Brinniel? Why the missed kill? Come one, enlighten us!

04-14-2007, 01:03 PM	#419
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	Well, this was a truly paranoid game. It's a pity you didn't get your desired number of player, Menel. The game would have been completely insane. There was a time during the game where I was afraid that I might be a False Seer and was leading the village astray unwittingly. Excellent rangering, Rikae! Lommy, I'm almost sorry I caught you. It was much more luck than cunning. You played very well: Legate was the only one of all to suspect you without help or evil intent. I still don't entirely believe that Nogrod was innocent. Surely Menel made a fault there.

04-14-2007, 03:21 PM	#420
The Sixth Wizard Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stuck under a rock in Valinor with Ar-Pharazon. Posts: 480	Thanks to everywere involved in my first Werewolf game. I have certainly learned a lot from you and . . . and . . . it's benefited me by . . . well I will probably be much better at lying to people thanks to you! As to the game itself I was in manacles half the time. Lommy played me like puppet on strings, and it was extraordinarily well-done, fueled by my blasted self satisfaction and arrogance! My hat comes off to you! (it was the only smiley with a hat) It's a bit of a relief to see there weren't too many complicated roles, because that means not too many other people were manipulating me. I hope though, the next time I play, it won't be the 'Unknown Enemies' again because that was quite confusing at times. Was Rikae's rangering excellent because she didn't let up too much, lasting all the way to the end? Could people tell us of the strategies they used during the middle point of the game? a.k.a Mac, Rikae, Roa, TGWBS, Werewolves.

04-14-2007, 05:27 PM	#422
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,733	You know what i have noticied out of every werewolf game... my hunches on who the wolves are are usually 3-out-of-4 or 2-out-of-3 (depending on game) so you people should pay more attention to me now... now if i was the seer, oh how i could root out the wolves... __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

04-14-2007, 05:50 PM	#423
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	That was a very nice game, although I'm still slightly unhappy about having such bad luck with getting online. Well played everyone, special hats off to Menel, the gifteds and Nogrod and his awesome conspiracy theories... Oh, and I'm sure you wish to hear my thoughts about the Days and Nights - and even if you don't, I've got to explain them to somebody! Night1 I sent one longish PM to Glirdy and xyzzy, but neither replied - it seems they missed the beginning of the game. So we did not plot anything on Night1. (Except that I recommended to xyzzy, that he maybe shouldn't be familiar with the nickname Lommy - I signed the PM as Lommy - since it is not 100% obvious it comes from Thinlómien: I actually said he shouldn't use that nickname before someone else does. Xyzzy however did far more than that, pretending he had never even heard that name - and it worked miraculously well on one Day! Kudos to xyzzy for that!) Day1 Disclaimer: I did not intentionally disencourage anyone to vote Glirdy! That never was part of my tactics. That "maybe too suspicious to be guilty" argument was brought because I thought I shouldn't look too sure so early - that's something that sometimes gives out wolf-on-wolf -votes... And even though Mith hinted I might be revenging my fenrisity to the world, that was not the case either... As quite many people said, it was the only reasonable vote to make at that phase - and I must confess that even though I had a feeling that Glirdy might be lynched I didn't feel too bad about that vote. Night2 That was an "ouch". I sent a PM to xyzzy quite early, giving a list of who I would like to see dead (including Brinn, Legate and Mith at least, if I recall correctly) and asked him to make the final decision and send it to Menel. When I returned to the 'downs the next day, I had a PM from xyzzy that said "I'm so confused, you play this game here so differently from what I've seen" and discovered that no wolf kill had been submitted. So, you see, missing the kill was plain confusion and bad timetables from our part. Day2 Well, I had some problems in trying to sound genuine: this was the day when I realised how hard work it is to be a wolf when you have to fabricate all your thoughts and be consistent. I almost voted Mac. I maybe should have... Night3 I had an sms from Nogrod that the Day3 was to begin late Monday night our time, not late Tuesday night as we (or I at least) had assumed. I had a problem. I have no net access home and all libraries were closed because it was Easter Monday. I wasn't sure if I could trust xyzzy to be around and send a kill, because he had been so absent at times. I called my friend, who is also a member called Aganzir here. I asked her some questions about what had happened on Day2 (I hadn't even read it through since I had been without a net access since voting that day), decided to kill Brinn, and asked Aganzir to send the kill to Menel. She sent it and explained my situation, and obviously Menel accepted the kill (which came in a quite extraordinary way). And I did not kill Brinn because she had said she'd take a better look at me - I was not even aware she had said that. I thought she was trusted and might even be gifted. I also thought that killing her would not take any important potential ally from me nor point at me or xyzzy. But actually I had received a PM from xyzzy that Night "are you there? If you're not responding soon, I will be sending in the name of Legate of Amon Lanc". I wonder what happened to that kill, since Brinn was obviously the one who died... Day3 The misfortunes of that day have been explained on the admin thread... Night3 Now this was something really funny. Again, I sent xyzzy a list of people I thought we should kill and asked him to make the final choice. I fell for Roa's trap and assumed she was the ranger. However - to my honour I must say the following - I didn't interpret Roa's words "don't worry Mac, the ranger will protect you at night" the most obvious way. I thought Roa was the ranger meaning she was not going to protect Mac during the Night. (I must admit it never crossed my mind why on earth would a ranger say something like this....) So I wrote to xyzzy, that I'd prefer killing Mac, because I thought the ranger wouldn't be protecting him that Night. I said that if he didn't want to take a risk he could make us kill Roa, who is a known innocent and might even be a ranger or then the Sixth Wizard to remove someone thought innocent and to create confusion. (I didn't want us to kill Mith or Nog because I hought they might be my potential allies the next day in case I was going to make some crazy bluff and contest Mac's claim.) I wrote this PM at school. Then I went to spend the night with friend, and forgot about ww for hours. However, going home, a realisation hit me. I was 95% sure Roa was the hunter. It was still a few hours 'til the deadline. If I had had a computer with a net home, I would probably have contacted xyzzy or Menel and tried to prevent the Roa-kill (since I was fairly sure xyzzy wanted to kill her). But as I didn't have, I let the thing be (even though I might have asked Aganzir to help me again, but I didn't consider it that important). I thought that Roa's such a gambler that she might well hunt someone else than me. I was wrong. But isn't it quite ironic that we attacked someone I knew was the hunter and guessed that might be after me? Seems it got quite long... ... __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

04-14-2007, 07:23 PM	#426
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	Well done, everyone- that game was certainly fun. Despite the loss, the baddies did very well. So then, here's the plotting from my side- Rikae can add her side as she chooses. Rikae and I were allowed to PM during the Day only. This wasn't a huge problem for the most part, since we were both around at the begining of every Day. However, the end of each day was messy, since I was not around, and Rikae had information she wanted to check with me. This actually resulted in a funny occurance when on Night 2, I hunted Nogrod and she protected him. Day 1 I started with my now infamous "Catch All" post about possible roles. I had a double purpose for that- one was to move the discussion along and into actual work; the other was to look for people who insisted on continuing the debate and carry the discussion away from the all important goal of catching wolves. (And it worked- TGWBS's continuation of it tripped my alarms.) Rikae and I PMed each other to discuss strategy and our roles, etc. For the record, I would not have made a kill if lynched. We decided to take the middle road- not ignore each other, not exonerate each other, and not heavily suspect each other. She posted her response to my post with another dual purpose- keeping up a distance between us, and looking for people to jump on the suspicion. (Another Baddie caught with Glirdan!) Night 2 For better or for worse, I had signed off for the Day just as Nogrod was becoming active, so I could only read and review what had been posted while I was out. Nogrod's post seemed horribly off to me somehow, and I chose to hunt him because of it. If it makes you feel better, Nogrod, the thought of you as a wolf had me hoping for death so I could take you out with me; I was that worried about it. Day 2 Rikae and I made our discoveries. At first we thought Nogrod had been attacked and protected, so we thought he was a known innocent. (That's what I get for reading the game thread before the admin thread.) Then we realized the truth of the matter. While she explained to me via PM why she thought he was innocent, I worked on an analysis of him to better explain why I suspected him. We also openly debated on the thread to further show distance between us- making it apparent that we couldn't commincate otherwise. I quite seriously suspected him. I mean, caution is all well and good, but everything should be taken in moderation. Something about the way he talked so much without saying anything reminded me of a wolvish SPM. Night 3 I hunted Gil, for the reasons in the thread. Rikae had asked me prior if I had an opinion on whom to protect. I thought Sixth, because everyone pretty much trusted him except Gil (whom I thought was evil.) Day 3 I was really getting tired of living, so I started dropping Ranger hints. (That's what the surprise about the Brinniel kill was about.) I have a chart that I use every game for keeping track of who suspects / votes for whom, and I busied myself filling it out for each Day, and cross-checking, etc. (In case your wondering, I kick butt at Clue.) That's how I found Brinniel's remark about checking out Lommy. Nogrod's case against me was based entirely on an unproven theory about TGWBS, so I was even more suspicious of him. Also, Rikae and I started to worry that no one was suspecting her and the wolves would kill her because of it. I did my "analysis" of her to throw suspicion in her direction with out getting her lynched. Turns out it wasn't even necessary. However, as I was about to make my final post before leaving for work, my husband's recruiter called to tell us that Mr. Roa was to be shipped out the very next day, as opposed to several months from now, which is what we had been expecting. You may notice that that post seems a bit rushed- it's because I was in full blown panic and trying (and failing) to keep calm. We were called back 10 minutes later to be told it was false alarm. If it was possible to kill someone via phone, I assure you the tech sergeant would no longer be with us. I did the only thing I could- vote my top suspect and leave. When I came back, I only had 30 minutes to catch up, and I had just enough time to drop my final Ranger hint. I sent a pm to Rikae, telling her to protect Mac, just incase the wolves didn't take the bait. Night 4 Never have I been so happy to be killed by the wolves. I hunted Lommy with yet another dual purpose in mind- one to kill a potential wolf, and one to prove if Mac was lying. I had the crazy idea that Nogrod and Lommy were lovers, so I half expected to read my death scene on Day 4 as having 3 dead, instead of two. That's my end. I was truly shocked to hear that Nogrod was innocent the next Day, though all his talk about lovers made me wonder if I was right about him being one. __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 04-14-2007 at 07:29 PM.

04-14-2007, 08:14 PM	#427
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	Well...my strategy for the first few days is pretty much covered in Roa's post. I thought Nogrod was innocent & his vote placement on day 1 would make him universally trusted, and therefore he'd be a likely wolf kill, so I protected him on night 1. I was quite surprised when Roa pm'd the next day to say she hunted him. Night 2, I protected Sixth, as Roa suggested. Day 3, like I said in the game, I thought Mac was lying because he gave no indication whatsoever of knowing Roa's role (I thought he would have dropped some kind of hint if he did), but after Gil turned out to be innocent, I decided to be on the safe side and protect Mac on night 3. On day 3, seeing Lommy was a wolf, I trusted Mac & thought I didn't have anything to lose (except my life )by bluffing to protect him for one more night. At first I actually thought I would be killed if the wolf thought Mac was protected, but Nogrod's suspicions made me realize that wasn't necessarily the case. I mentioned the possibility Nogrod would be the kill primarily to reinforce the idea that Mac was protected; the fact that Xyzzy actually attacked Nogrod was just the "icing on the cake", so to speak. Obviously, I couldn't protect Mac or myself, so I protected Nogrod on night 4, betting Sixth or Xyzzy would 'follow my advice'. Nogrod actually had me a little worried on the last day, with his suspicion that Mac and I were lovers - which, in retrospect, was pretty cool because it kept the game exciting right to the end. I think this may be the first time I've survived to the end of a game...maybe the second.

04-15-2007, 06:21 AM	#429
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Dear Gott... Am I the worst cobbler EVER? So, no, I had no real idea of who the wolves were. I don't think I had enough days for that. I went after Lommy on day one for attacking Glirdan, because people always attack him when they have no better leads. And I thought, hey, Lommy's a good player, why not try to get her lynched? Never once did I think the analysis I posted on the thread was true! So, day 2 came along. I realised that, as Glirdan had been shown to be a wolf, I was in a very bad position for protecting him. Thinking I might die because of it, I decided to cause as much confusion as possible. I kept going after Lommy, trying to hint I was the Seer. I thought that one of Legate or Mac would be a wolf, trying to support me and help me lynch an innocent Lommy. If time zones had been more friendly, I would have revealed myself as a Seer near the end, and Lommy as a wolf. Then, when she was lynched and shown to actually be a wolf, I would seriously curse myself. The last remaining wolf would think I was actually the seer and be against me. Thank God I was lynched! If anything, my death at that point was very helpful to the wolves. My theory about Lommy being a wolf seemed so incredibly contrived that suspicion turned away from her. If I'd lived and declared myself a seer, I'd almost certainly have got her lynched untimely. Roa was spot on when she said that I was upset because I'd been planning a reveal! I really have to applaud her for her brilliance this game. However, I didn't really mean to go on about roles... all that stuff was actually sincere! Worst cobbler ever? Do I get a prize?

04-15-2007, 09:07 AM	#434
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Yes, possibly if tgwbs did that, and Lommy was lynched, then Mac couldn't say anything to prove he's right. Though at the moment Mac was lynched as fake seer, we would know he was the Seer, and tgwbs would go as well. Though, there will still be one wolf left, and no seer, so who knows... Only if we wouldn't conclude that Menel decided to give us two seers, which would speak for tgwbs and maybe he could make yet some mess... __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

04-15-2007, 12:16 PM	#435
xyzzy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ozark, MO Posts: 53	Heh, my strategy for the whole game was feigning ignorance of how any of the roles work, and it worked, since little differences do exist. Unfortunately, by the time I realized I wouldn't be able to send a list for night 2, it was too late; otherwise, the game may have been very different. I'm kind of mad that no one believed my accusation of Macalaure at the ned, but I suppose it would have been better when we first found out that Mac was the Seer. Did people assume I had some sort of master strategy behind playing the game in a completely opposite fashion, or did it just make me look like a moron? Either way, it's an accurate interpretation.

04-16-2007, 05:43 AM	#440
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	So, how did people feel about role naivety? I loved it, and think it should be implemented in future games. It adds to the role-play side of things, not knowing about roles. I think mods could have a LOT of fun with the idea in future.