Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

We do seem to be few. If we press a reluctant Galadriel to mod for us, we have a confirmed ready-to-play list of:

I fear I would not have to be pressed hard. How about I do Deputy Mod until someone shows up to claim their rightful place, and if no one does before the start of the game I'll go on modding.

And as such, I think we need to get consensus on a few points before Monday hits us.

The first is roles and numbers. Formy, I think you are missing Boro from your list, he posted in Rikae's thread. Maybe let's confirm that - Boro, BG, and Soriman - you've all posted on the other thread, could you confirm you still want to play? I trust sally will be there, though I would not yet put bets on her being there quite on D1.

With only 9 people, I think 2 baddies is tops. Following "worst case scenario" numbers, 2/9 baddies brings endgame on D3, whereas 3 of them bring it on D2, and that's just too soon. One or two gifteds? If there is only one Gifted, which one? I vote against Hunter, that one just brings the numbers down too much in a single strike for such a small game. Ranger or Seer?

Then, what happens to the dead. A Dead Thread is a must. ^.^ But should they have a role in the game. Are they allowed a vote on the living thread? Do they send a Ghost to haunt the living? And what is their objective in doing so, phrased in such a way that being a dead wolf wouldn't be terrible existence?

Since the games of last summer, I've been mulling over ways to unite the DT in a common cause which lets everyone actively participate on equal footing. What I came up with is this: the Dead hold a grudge at being killed, and take petty revenge by seeking to make as many people as possible join their ranks - ie their goal is to get the Living Thread to reach endgame. That way, its support is always given to the "losing" side, whichever that may be, regardless of the Dead's former roles. However, I'm not sure how that would integrate with the Ghost in practice - what is the Ghost in practice? - and I think the Ghost should see a test run here.

...So, basically, any thoughts on what are the actual rules of the game? Thoughts on the Ghost and DT responsibilities.


And a few minor things that also must be sorted before the start:
Deadline preference? I live in GMT-4. Though in the next 2-3 weeks my schedule is flexible, please be kind and don't ask for 4am local time.
Preference on tied votes? Many people hate the first-to-reach-tie, some hate the last-to-reach-tie, opinions differ on both or none options. Given that this is a small game, would it make more sense to have neither party lynched? Certainly not both. What do you guys think?


That was a much longer post than I intended. But really, I think it's good to figure out what game we're playing before the start date.

[Soriman the Whide]

Posting to confirm my interest.
As you all know I'm new here, I've not played a game like this before either however I'll be happy to learn to try get the numbers up.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Preference on tied votes? Many people hate the first-to-reach-tie, some hate the last-to-reach-tie, opinions differ on both or none options. Given that this is a small game, would it make more sense to have neither party lynched? Certainly not both. What do you guys think?

How about 'the Dead Thread breaks ties'? You could make a rule that Dead players cast their own votes, but only for people who already have at least one vote in the game thread. If there's a tie, whichever tied player had the most Dead votes dies. If there's a double tie (including a 'neither player got any votes from the Dead'), nobody is lynched.

Which could even just be a general "the Dead get one collective vote" rule, with the proviso that they can only vote for someone who's already had a vote in the game thread. (Purely because I feel like ties aren't all that common, so it would be a bit weak for the Dead.)

For the Ghost, I still like Rikae's version (with or without a number-of-posts limit); it's the one that's been most optimised, so to speak. But basically anything that lets the Dead try and affect the Living without being able to do so indiscriminately.

hS

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I also am fine with for example Rikae's version of the ghost, I think it is rather simple way of going about it, and a fun one. Besides, if we "test" this now, we can make any sorts of "fancy" adjustments to it that we like in the future.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Which could even just be a general "the Dead get one collective vote" rule, with the proviso that they can only vote for someone who's already had a vote in the game thread.

That is only a problem because, well, what if half the people vote only around deadline, then many of the Dead may not be able to vote.

Also, it does not eliminate the problem of a tie on Day 1, when there are not yet any Dead to vote in the first place.

I am more of a supporter of the first-to-reach-the-maximum-is-lynched, simply because it forces people to vote earlier, rather than to hold their votes until 23:59:59. But anything goes, we've had games with all possible rules.

[Galadriel55]

My question regarding the Ghost of Rikae's set up is that she also had a special role that was active in Death; her Ghost has information to convey. In this smaller and simpler game, what information can the Ghost offer that the living would want? Is he just conveying the general opinion of the Dead, which might be helpful insight but ultimately is still opinion and not fact?

Ooo, thought. What if the Dead during the Day can vote to find out the identity of one living player? That way, they function as a collective Seer, and the Ghost would travel back to convey that info? There may also be limitations on how many times they are allowed to hunt (eg only 2, or only 3, or not in two consecutive Days), to make people budget that power?

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Posting to confirm my interest.
As you all know I'm new here, I've not played a game like this before either however I'll be happy to learn to try get the numbers up.

We're always happy to have new people join, and we were all the new person at one point or other. Welcome to the game! You can read up about the general rules, and let us know if you have questions. If you've ever played Mafia / Werewolf in real life, this is much like it.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

My question regarding the Ghost of Rikae's set up is that she also had a special role that was active in Death; her Ghost has information to convey. In this smaller and simpler game, what information can the Ghost offer that the living would want? Is he just conveying the general opinion of the Dead, which might be helpful insight but ultimately is still opinion and not fact?

I seem to recall that one of the last two games, the living basically ignored the Dead entirely. You'd have to weight things relatively heavily to counter that tendency, which... I mean, you're not supposed to want to be killed, so making it so the Dead have loads more information kind of works against that.

But... what if you reveal something about the previous Day's voting each night? One night it could be 'no wolves received votes', the next 'both wolves voted together', the third 'at least one wolf voted early', the fourth 'the Gifted has voted for
a wolf twice so far'. Something like that - the sort of thing people speculate about all through the Day. The Dead would have to decide overNight whether it's a big enough clue to send in the Ghost, and how to convey what random piece of information had been revealed through their communication limits (Tolkien block-quotes with no-one trying to instruct the Ghost, I think Rikae's version was).

What if the Dead during the Day can vote to find out the identity of one living player? That way, they function as a collective Seer, and the Ghost would travel back to convey that info? There may also be limitations on how many times they are allowed to hunt (eg only 2, or only 3, or not in two consecutive Days), to make people budget that power?

It's an interesting idea... it might be fun to combine the budgets, actually: you have three ghosts, but can choose whether each one is a Night Ghost (acts as Seer for the dead) or Day Ghost (visits the Living). With the possibilities of information from dead Gifted and Wolves, it's not quite as obvious as going 'night-night-day' right at the start.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's an interesting idea... it might be fun to combine the budgets, actually: you have three ghosts, but can choose whether each one is a Night Ghost (acts as Seer for the dead) or Day Ghost (visits the Living). With the possibilities of information from dead Gifted and Wolves, it's not quite as obvious as going 'night-night-day' right at the start.

I'm not actually sure what you mean by that. Isn't the Ghost only active during the Day?


But I like your other thoughts. Here's a sketch of the DT's role, up for further feedback and refinement:

• During the Day, the Dead cast their votes for a Living player. Whoever gets the most votes at DL gets an extra vote, by the same principles of voting as the Game Thread works. (Should the DT deadline be the same, or DL-2h, or -1h?)
• At the start of the Night, the DT gets a snippet of information from me, not too revealing but giving some info about the previous Day, including wolf and gifted activities. As a way to include dead baddies, perhaps in the event there is a dead wolf, I will give them a choice of 2-3 statements, and they get to choose which one gets revealed.
• During the Night, the dead get to mull over this info. They also vote for a Ghost or No Ghost.
• If a Ghost is chosen, for the duration of the next Day he haunts the Game Thread. During this time he cannot look at the DT or participate in the DT vote. In the GT, he can only speak in Tolkien quotes which must be in full sentences and at least 5 words long. References are appreciated but not required. He is not allowed to quote players, link, emphasize text (eg bold/italics). There is no limit to how many posts he can make that Day, or how many Tolkien quotes he can put in a single post. (Yea or nay? Should he be more restricted? Or test run the liberal option first?) He does not vote on the GT.
• The Living cannot give specific instructions to the Ghost, under punishment of Isildur's Curse: they shall be banned from both the Living and the Dead threads. They are allowed to ask the Ghost questions, and of course allowed to discuss the Ghost's statements.

Next up: do you want a Seer or a Ranger or both? If it's just a Ranger, perhaps a flexible one (eg can protect someone for 2 Nights, can protect himself)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I'm not actually sure what you mean by that. Isn't the Ghost only active during the Day?

Sorry; I meant that "the Ghost" could be a role used by the DT in one of two ways: either to send in during the Day to talk to the LT, or as a Dead Seer read. In the latter case, there wouldn't be an actual 'Ghost' talking to the Living.

At the start of the Night, the DT gets a snippet of information from me... in the event there is a dead wolf, I will give them a choice of 2-3 statements, and they get to choose which one gets revealed.

Nice development of the idea. So the dead wolf gets to decide what the dead learn? Secretly, or does everyone see their options?

During the Night, the dead get to mull over this info. They also vote for a Ghost or No Ghost.

Do these Night effects also happen on the Night when there's only one dead player? It would be kind of funny for a dead Wolf to come back and just mock the living all day long.

If a Ghost is chosen [etc]

I'm kind of inclined to the liberal version, perhaps with the proviso that if it really breaks things, the mod can switch to a limited version for subsequent ghost appearances.

The Living cannot give specific instructions to the Ghost, under punishment of Isildur's Curse: they shall be banned from both the Living and the Dead threads. They are allowed to ask the Ghost questions, and of course allowed to discuss the Ghost's statements.

As long as the mod is fair when it comes to subjective posting (is "long quotes aren't very helpful" an instruction? How about "that wasn't very helpful"?), sure.

Next up: do you want a Seer or a Ranger or both? If it's just a Ranger, perhaps a flexible one (eg can protect someone for 2 Nights, can protect himself)

No preference from my side.

hS