Noldor or Numenoreans - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Hobbitt_Fan · 02-26-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Tuor is said to be stronger than any Elf of Doriath except for Beleg, but he is one individual compared to the majority that is probably weaker than most Elves.

Tuor or Turin? If Turin, I think at that point in the book he is only 17 and not yet in the fullness of his manhood. I wonder if Hurin had not convinces Turgon to withdraw during Nírnaeth Arnoediad, could Turgon have matched his feat? Or could have Hurin called out Morgoth to a duel and matched his feat?

The greatest of the Noldo Lords are said to be the tallest children of Illuvitar. The Noldo are said to be strong of arm and powerful of build, gifted in both craft and war, so that has me leaning that as great as Hurin or Turin were, they couldn't match a Turgon, Gil-Gilad, Fingolfin, Fingon, Argon, Maedhros, Rog, Glorfinedel, or Echtellion in feats of arms. That they are just a level of being above even the greats like Hurin, Turin, or Elendil.

Galadriel55 · 02-26-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbitt_Fan

Tuor or Turin?

My bad, it is Turin.

However, I think that even when he grew up fully Beleg was still stronger and more skilled than him.

TPotSS · 02-26-2011, 01:21 PM

When it comes to sheer physical strength, when Turin fought Saeros (before Turin was even full strength) Tolkien said that Turin was "as agile as any elf, but stronger."

So I'd say Turin once full grown was definitely stronger than everyone else.

Galadriel55 · 02-26-2011, 02:49 PM

As I said before, Turin is one man out of hundreds. He is exeptional. The majority of men, even Numenorians, would probably be weaker.

TPotSS · 02-26-2011, 04:29 PM

Well sure, Turin is exceptional, but if the strongest of men is stronger than the strongest of Elves, it is possible that the higher ceiling indicates a potential higher average. Especially considering that Elves in general weren't known for being huge (only really some of their lords) where as the Numenoreans in mass were just giant (they averaged at least 6'4" if I'm recalling correctly their measure of half-man height and such).

Galadriel55 · 02-26-2011, 06:18 PM

I believe that Beleg still remained stronger than Turin, and he was a Sinda. Noldor are supposed to be 'better'* than the grey-elves, so their strongest might top Turin.

It is hard to judge two different people from different races when they are not doing the sae thing - you can't really compare. We see an elf and a huan doing the same thing in LOTR - Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli running after the orcs. Also, they are together at the Hornburg and basically throughout the quest, but here their actions are described ore in-depth. I am quite sure you can classify Aragorn as "very strong". I noticed that Aragorn is stronger when it comes to things like fighting, or when he uses 'short outbursts' of strength. Legolas is not as uscular, and cannot work with a sword like Aragorn, but he is more enduring, his strength lasts for longer. (And Legolas probably isn't the strongest Elf either). So which one is stronger? You can't really compare, because they have different strength.

*'Better' is not the right word here, maybe. 'More developed' is ore like it, but not exactly that either.

Hobbitt_Fan · 02-26-2011, 08:36 PM

This is from a Tolkien letter and since it mentions Gil-gilad, their increase in stature was to resemble the Noldor. So, size wise, their probably wasn't any difference at the height of Numenor. Whether they equaled the Noldor in strength, I don't know.

"The Númenóreans ... are in constant communication with their ancient friends and allies, either in the bliss of Eressea, or in the kingdom of Gilgalad on the shores of Middle-earth. They became thus in appearance, and even in powers of mind, hardly distinguishable from the Elves..."

02-26-2011, 01:21 PM	#3
TPotSS Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the captain's chair Posts: 42	When it comes to sheer physical strength, when Turin fought Saeros (before Turin was even full strength) Tolkien said that Turin was "as agile as any elf, but stronger." So I'd say Turin once full grown was definitely stronger than everyone else. __________________ You can't be a great painter. You only have one ear.

02-26-2011, 02:49 PM	#4
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,325	As I said before, Turin is one man out of hundreds. He is exeptional. The majority of men, even Numenorians, would probably be weaker. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

02-26-2011, 04:29 PM	#5
TPotSS Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the captain's chair Posts: 42	Well sure, Turin is exceptional, but if the strongest of men is stronger than the strongest of Elves, it is possible that the higher ceiling indicates a potential higher average. Especially considering that Elves in general weren't known for being huge (only really some of their lords) where as the Numenoreans in mass were just giant (they averaged at least 6'4" if I'm recalling correctly their measure of half-man height and such). __________________ You can't be a great painter. You only have one ear.

02-26-2011, 06:18 PM	#6
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,325	I believe that Beleg still remained stronger than Turin, and he was a Sinda. Noldor are supposed to be 'better'* than the grey-elves, so their strongest might top Turin. It is hard to judge two different people from different races when they are not doing the sae thing - you can't really compare. We see an elf and a huan doing the same thing in LOTR - Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli running after the orcs. Also, they are together at the Hornburg and basically throughout the quest, but here their actions are described ore in-depth. I am quite sure you can classify Aragorn as "very strong". I noticed that Aragorn is stronger when it comes to things like fighting, or when he uses 'short outbursts' of strength. Legolas is not as uscular, and cannot work with a sword like Aragorn, but he is more enduring, his strength lasts for longer. (And Legolas probably isn't the strongest Elf either). So which one is stronger? You can't really compare, because they have different strength. 'Better' is not the right word here, maybe. 'More developed' is ore like it, but not exactly that either. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!...* ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

02-26-2011, 08:36 PM	#7
Hobbitt_Fan Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 18	This is from a Tolkien letter and since it mentions Gil-gilad, their increase in stature was to resemble the Noldor. So, size wise, their probably wasn't any difference at the height of Numenor. Whether they equaled the Noldor in strength, I don't know. "The Númenóreans ... are in constant communication with their ancient friends and allies, either in the bliss of Eressea, or in the kingdom of Gilgalad on the shores of Middle-earth. They became thus in appearance, and even in powers of mind, hardly distinguishable from the Elves..."