What happened at Mount Doom? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elladan and Elrohir · 05-22-2006, 03:11 PM

And the very next Letter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letter 192

By chance, I have just had another letter regarding the failure of Frodo. Very few seem even to have observed it. But following the logic of the plot, it was clearly inevitable, as an event. And surely it is a more significant and real event than a mere 'fairy-story' ending in which the hero is indomitable? It is possible for the good, even the saintly, to be subjected to a power of evil which is too great for them to overcome -- in themselves. In this case the cause (not the 'hero') was triumphant, because by the exercise of pity, mercy, and forgiveness of injury, a situation was produced in which all was redressed and disaster averted. Gandalf certainly foresaw this. See Vol. I p. 68-9. Of course, he did not mean to say that one must be merciful, for it may prove useful later -- it would not then be mercy or pity, which are only truly present when contrary to prudence. Not ours to plan! But we are assured that we must be ourselves extravagantly generous, if we are to hope for the extravagant generosity which the slightest easing of, or escape from, the consequences of our own follies and errors represents. And that mercy does sometimes occur in this life.

Frodo deserved all honour because he spent every drop of his power of will and body, and that was just sufficient to bring him to the destined point, and no further. Few others, possibly no others of his time, would have got so far. The Other Power then took over: the Writer of the Story (by which I do not mean myself), 'that one ever-present Person who is never absent and never named' [note: Actually referred to as 'the One' in App. A III p. 317 1. 20. The Numenoreans (and Elves) were absolute monotheists.] (as one critic has said). See Vol. I p. 65. A third (the only other) commentator on the point some months ago reviled Frodo as a scoundrel (who should have been hung and not honoured), and me too. It seems sad and strange that, in this evil time when daily people of good will are tortured, 'brainwashed', and broken, anyone could be so fiercely simpleminded and selfrighteous.

The 1,000 Reader · 05-22-2006, 10:34 PM

My belief of what happened at Mount Doom follows like this:

Frodo used all of his spirit and will to make it to Mount Doom.

Eru handles the rest.

However, I believe that when Eru took matters into his own hands, he was preventing further tragedy. Though it would have broken his heart to do so, Sam may have gained hold of Frodo and tossed him in. They could also both fall into the fires. I believe that Eru's intervention finished the quest in a way which would cause no more terrible harm: the twisted Gollum would take the ring and, to spare Frodo from knocking Gollum in, whether through struggle or will, and to spare Sam from killing the one his master had faith in, Eru simply made Gollum fall off. No additional pain for the hobbits, and Gollum died in the most merciful way he could.

Tuor of Gondolin · 05-23-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

However, I believe that when Eru took matters into his own hands, he was preventing further tragedy. Though it would have broken his heart to do so, Sam may have gained hold of Frodo and tossed him in. They could also both fall into the fires. I believe that Eru's intervention finished the quest in a way which would cause no more terrible harm

A sound hypothesis. One can imagine Sam torn, appalled
at Mr. Frodo and his virtual insanity, and also thinking of
Rosie, the Gaffer, etc. But would he have just dispatched
Frodo or fallen in (deliberately) as part of his desperate
effort to get rid of the Ring?
Hmm.

The 1,000 Reader · 05-23-2006, 06:57 PM

Well, there's also the fact that Eru could have also done that as a way to ultimately humiliate Sauron.

Elu Ancalime · 05-23-2006, 08:04 PM

I voted for "Eru", but instead of "Eru willed it", I would say "It was Fate, which is Eru." Eru didnt just pick on gollum, but the Ring had to be destroyed. This kind of ties in with D, but D is more in a sense of Literature. Eru probably did not have 'declared' "Gollum will fall", but he might have 'declared' that"Gollum will no come in the way of the destruction of the ring" or "whatever it takes to destroy it." I kind of agree with 1,000 Reader. All of the "Candidates" work with each other, but it is not a bad poll.

And then it jumps into the theory of a planned universe and free will and stuff and Eru=God and interesting tangents like that. We should just have a tangent thread where we drift from one topic to the next. XP

________
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View Poll Results: Gollum went into the Crack of Doom because
he slipped	26	44.83%
Eru willed it	16	27.59%
he jumped on purpose	7	12.07%
the quest needed to end this way to make sense	9	15.52%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

05-22-2006, 10:34 PM	#2
The 1,000 Reader Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: I don't know. Eastern ME doesn't have maps. Posts: 527	My belief of what happened at Mount Doom follows like this: Frodo used all of his spirit and will to make it to Mount Doom. Eru handles the rest. However, I believe that when Eru took matters into his own hands, he was preventing further tragedy. Though it would have broken his heart to do so, Sam may have gained hold of Frodo and tossed him in. They could also both fall into the fires. I believe that Eru's intervention finished the quest in a way which would cause no more terrible harm: the twisted Gollum would take the ring and, to spare Frodo from knocking Gollum in, whether through struggle or will, and to spare Sam from killing the one his master had faith in, Eru simply made Gollum fall off. No additional pain for the hobbits, and Gollum died in the most merciful way he could. __________________ "And forth went Morgoth, and he was halted by the elves. Then went Sauron, who was stopped by a dog and then aged men. Finally, there came the Witch-King, who destroyed Arnor, but nobody seems to remember that." -A History of Villains

05-23-2006, 06:57 PM	#4
The 1,000 Reader Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: I don't know. Eastern ME doesn't have maps. Posts: 527	Well, there's also the fact that Eru could have also done that as a way to ultimately humiliate Sauron. __________________ "And forth went Morgoth, and he was halted by the elves. Then went Sauron, who was stopped by a dog and then aged men. Finally, there came the Witch-King, who destroyed Arnor, but nobody seems to remember that." -A History of Villains

05-23-2006, 08:04 PM	#5
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	I voted for "Eru", but instead of "Eru willed it", I would say "It was Fate, which is Eru." Eru didnt just pick on gollum, but the Ring had to be destroyed. This kind of ties in with D, but D is more in a sense of Literature. Eru probably did not have 'declared' "Gollum will fall", but he might have 'declared' that"Gollum will no come in the way of the destruction of the ring" or "whatever it takes to destroy it." I kind of agree with 1,000 Reader. All of the "Candidates" work with each other, but it is not a bad poll. And then it jumps into the theory of a planned universe and free will and stuff and Eru=God and interesting tangents like that. We should just have a tangent thread where we drift from one topic to the next. XP ________ Help love Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:59 PM.