Who was the most foolish ruler of all?

[Anguirel]

Mormegil, I agree with you somewhat on Feanor, but would add the caveat that he was a brilliant general in times of war, with that crucial one Lionheart-like weakness-lack of self-preservation. I also understand his motives for "cutting himself off from the Valar", as splendidly expressed by him when he answers Manwe's herald. And the Kinslaying, though a terrible thing to initiate, has to be seen in the light of Finwe's death and Feanor's longing for revenge.

I would disagree entirely on Denethor.

It seems to me that we see all of Melkor's humiliations, because he's the baddie. That still doesn't mean we can neglect his achievements-if they can be called that, as they are all negative. Supreme among these for me is his mastery of treachery-twice against Maedhros (including the Nirnaeth), infinitely against Hurin's family, and against Turgon through Maeglin.

Ar-Pharazon is an excellent choice.

I don't actually think much of Helm Hammerhand. Belligerently stirring up racial feuds which led to the near destruction of Rohan.

Earendil, whatever else he was, proved a poor ruler to his people.

But surely Sauron takes the biscuit. I mean-putting his power into a ring? That's just comical...

I like this thread, and will return to it when I have more. Have we already got a positive one? I might ressurect if I find it.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

... with that crucial one Lionheart-like weakness-lack of self-preservation.

His diplomatic skills weren't too hot either.

[Anguirel]

Feanor's political career-and it truly pains me to say this-could be construed by some as similar to Hitler's; diplomacy being viewed by both as a cumbersome thing that can be lightly dispensed with. I prefer the metaphors I've thought up so far-Achilles and Richard Plantagenet, both heroes of mine-so far though...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

....similar to Hitler's; diplomacy being viewed by both as a cumbersome thing that can be lightly dispensed with.

Oh, no- Hitler was a big believer in diplomacy. He'd happily negotiate a treaty with any sucker so dim as to believe Adolf actually meant a word of it. "Smeagol lied," don'tcha know, old boy?

[Bêthberry]

I'd say it was a pair of rulers.

Melian for thinking that a girdle could hold back the ravages of time, and Thingol for being the quintessential controlling, domineering, possessive dad.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think all the nominations here were quite silly. Not including Melkors and Manwës and I am just waiting for someone to say "Sauron because he let Frodo in Mordor", this is completely out of place... the examples you mentioned, they are all just pettifoggers. In case of many like Ar-Pharazon it was not foolishness but mainly arrogance, lust and, especially in case of Ar-Pharazon, I believe more than foolishness intentional denial of truth to himself. Denethor was defeatist, but not a fool. Eärnur was provoked - it was not foolishness, it was anger. Do you want to know one (and the only one that comes to my mind now) really foolish act in the very sense of the word, and the most foolish ruler of all?

My nomination is ORODRETH.

That fool built a bridge to let Glaurung in. I have never seen any more foolish act. It is the very definition of foolishness and if you posted "fool" in the Word Association game and it would be on me, his name would follow. It was Túrin's idea, that's fact, so we could speculate whether it was his or Túrin's foolishness, but for the purposes of this thread I am speaking of the ruler, which is Orodreth. I could name them as "ruling duo". But I don't get why there was no one who named this thus far.

[Elmo]

Isn't building bridges always a good thing? Turin and Orodreth just wanted easier transport, as long as they didn't charge tolls I don't see it being a bad thing or at least without the benefit of hindsight.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That fool built a bridge to let Glaurung in. I have never seen any more foolish act.

That begs the question: exactly why do Dwarves build entranceways that admit dragons (Smaug) and build hallways that allow Balrogs to run about the place? If the folk are four feet-ish high, what's the need for the 'extended to the max' headroom?

Does this put Father Durin on the list?

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Now, I'm no librarian, in fact, I don't know what star sign I am. But, as a famous person once said, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." And as I - another more famous person - once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like."

[Lady_Galadriel]

this is an extremly wonderful topic!

[QUOTE=Anguirel]

But surely Sauron takes the biscuit. I mean-putting his power into a ring? That's just comical...
QUOTE]
i agree... who would put his power into a ring that would eventually fall into the wrong hands and destroy middle earth as we know it?! thats just nuts!

[yavanna II]

I'd like to agree for Ar-Pharazon... a really stupid git who took an evil Maia home with him... hasn't he got the wits to think about how cunning Sauron can be, I mean, he's just too proud... and he really isn't the heir, it was his cousin/wife Miriel...

Also I'd like to point out that Tar Palantir did the very mistake of not securing the kingdom to his daughter... though he really isn't stupid, he just overlooked the fact that his brother and his nephew wanted to rebel against the Valar...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I've got to go with Tuor's daddy-in-law, Turgon. He's known for a long time Gondolin can't be stayed in forever and he gets as clear a warning as
seems possible that it's time to say "Hasta la vista, , baby" , but then
(to quote Professor Harold Hill) "He dillies and he dallies."

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

But surely Sauron takes the biscuit. I mean-putting his power into a ring? That's just comical...

Darn this ten-reps-in-between rule...

And not considering all the possibilities of your foes defeating you is a bad way to go, too.

[alatar]

Have to put Manwë on the list.

Can never see Melkor for who he really is. Just how many times does Melkor have to destroy Aman/most of Arda/etc for Manwë to think, "ya know, this guy might not have good intentions...hmmm."

Thinks it's a great idea to bring the elves to Aman for "safekeeping." That's funny, as it never was safe before nor afterwards. This, of course, leads to all sorts of other problems.

Thankfully, he does show a little wisdom and doesn't bring Men to Aman. But sets up the Edain on Numenor, and, showing a deep understanding of human psychology, tells them that there is a place that they shall not go. There's nothing like a Ban to get Man curious. So when Man does break this law, what does he do? Calls on someone else to fix it.

Luckily, as time passes, Manwë takes less and less of an active role and ME benefits from his choice of Istari, though the overall failure rate of that venture was 80%.

If it weren't for sending eagles and Gandalf, not sure what good Manwë has done.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by alatar

That's funny, as it never was safe before nor afterwards.

In what sense wasn't it safe?

Can never see Melkor for who he really is.

I presume you are reffering to his release of Melkor:

Originally Posted by Osanwe kenta

The weakest and most imprudent of all the actions of Manwe, as it seems to many, was the release of Melkor from captivity. From this came the greatest loss and harm: the death of the Trees, and the exile and the anguish of the Noldor. Yet through this suffering there came also, as maybe in no other way could it have come, the victory of the Elder Days: the downfall of Angband and the last overthrow of Melkor.

Who then can say with assurance that if Melkor had been held in bond less evil would have followed? Even in his diminishment the power of Melkor is beyond our calculation. Yet some ruinous outburst of his despair is not the worst that might have befallen. The release was according to the promise of Manwe. If Manwe had broken this promise for his own purposes, even though still intending "good", he would have taken a step upon the paths of Melkor.

This, of course, leads to all sorts of other problems.

Originally Posted by Notes on motives in the Silmarillion, iii, Myths Transformed, HoME X

But, if we dare to attempt to enter the mind of the Elder King, assigning motives and finding faults, there are things to remember before we deliver a judgement. Manwe was the spirit of greatest wisdom and prudence in Arda. He is represented as having had the greatest knowledge of the Music, as a whole, possessed by any one finite mind; and he alone of all persons or minds in that time is represented as having the power of direct recourse to and communication with Eru. He must have grasped with great clarity what even we may perceive dimly: that it was the essential mode of the process of 'history' in Arda that evil should constantly arise, and that out of it new good should constantly come. One especial aspect of this is the strange way in which the evils of the Marrer, or his inheritors, are turned into weapons against evil. If we consider the situation after the escape of Morgoth and the reestablishment of his abode in Middle-earth, we shall see that the heroic Noldor were the best possible weapon with which to keep Morgoth at bay, virtually besieged, and at any rate fully occupied, on the northern fringe of Middle-earth, without provoking him to a frenzy of nihilistic destruction. And in the meanwhile, Men, or the best elements in Mankind, shaking off his shadow, came into contact with a people who had actually seen and experienced the Blessed Realm.

In their association with the warring Eldar Men were raised to their fullest achievable stature, and by the two marriages the transference to them, or infusion into Mankind, of the noblest Elf-strain was accomplished, in readiness for the still distant, but inevitably approaching, days when the Elves would 'fade'.

As we can see, it was not a zero-sum game.

There's nothing like a Ban to get Man curious.
...
Calls on someone else to fix it.

What better alternatives do you see?

If it weren't for sending eagles and Gandalf, not sure what good Manwë has done.

He is called the "chief instrument of the second theme that Iluvatar had raised against the discord of Melkor", cf. Ainulindale. I certainly doubt it was a gratuitous title. He is the main organiser of the resistance against Melkor, he calls his brethren to the fight, he transmits Eru's will to the others (as the only one capable to directly appeal to Him). According to Osanwe-kenta, "Manwe was bound by the commands and injunctions of Eru, and would do this or abstain from that in accordance with them, always."