Defending Minas Tirith a strategic error?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

It seems to me that, while understandable from a political and humanitarian view, it was arguably better strategically for Gandalf and the Rohirrim to not go to Minas Tirith but to rather demonstrate perhaps as far as Anorien and then to gradually withdraw in a slow, fighting, scorched-earth type pullback.
The overall point of Gandalf's strategy was to distract Sauron. With Aragorn's defeating of the Corsairs and clearing South Gondor (which Gandalf knew was Aragorn's immediate goal), even with the fall of Minas Tirith there would have been strong forces opposing Sauron to the northwest and southwest. And I believe it says somewhere in LOTR there were escape routes from M.T. into the White Mountains, so some M.T. forces could have escaped to link up in South Gondor or Rohan. Such a policy would have distracted Sauron for a long time, emptied Mordor of fighters, and drawn them even further from Mordor.
Of course, there would be certain negative effects, greater devastation in Gondor and Rohan, and Sam and Frodo would presumably have been toast after fulfilling the quest
but the overall chances of success would seem to have been greater.

As for Rohan's arguably not fulfilling its alliance with Gondor, if the above policy was followed there might well have been a better chance of the overall state of Gondor surviving, and to not follow the more sound strategy would have been an error like that featured in The Homecoming of Beorhnoth, Beorhthelm's Son.

[Boromir88]

Before I get into your "theory" of the defense of Gondor. You do make a good point, even if Minas Tirith fell there were still forces Sauron would have had to contend with. I believe Theoden left either 2 000 or 4 000 men to defend Edoras and Helm's deep, he went with 6 000 and left some back for defense. With Aragorn destroying the Corsairs you still have the 50 ships full of men from Lebennin to contend with. You still had the men of Dale, and dwarves of Erebor fighting, Galadriel and her people were fighting, Elrond was fighting. Eventhough the elves are a race that were leaving Middle-earth still people remained to fight. So, yes there were still many people left for Sauron to destroy even if Minas Tirith fell.

Your "theory" could possibly work but to say it would have been a better one? I don't know. If you ask me Denethor defended Minas Tirith abou as well as one could. Bringing in the armies, setting up walls, it was so well defended not an enemy entered into Minas Tirith. Also, your strategy for the Rohirrim, seems more like a Skirmish and Slash and Burn policy. Similar to that of the Russians defeating Napolean and Hitler. Eventhough, an enemy didn't enter Minas Tirith, the gates were broken, then Rohan arrived, if Rohan wasn't there for the arrival then Minas Tirith's survival becomes a little shaky. They still have 6 more levels to bust throught but if I remember I have seen Sauron had over 400,000 of his men attacking the city. I sort of lost my self in the ramble of facts, but I'll get right to my opinion.

I really don't see a better way of distracting Sauron then marching to the black gate, especially with the man wielding Anduril. If Minas Tirith did fall and Sauron did start spreading out his forces to attack all Middle-earth I still think he would have had plenty of orcs for Frodo and Sam to contend with crossing the plains. I think Sauron sees "what we got here, a couple thousand men marching out right in front of my gate, and with them is the king of Gondor" he sees it as fresh meat for the grinder. Not only that but you have the Eomer, Imrahil, Gandalf, and Beregond some of the biggest names around Middle-earth, and Sauron sees his chance to destroy all these "big names," and with all his greed thinking he was unstoppable he took the bate. The assaults upon Mirkwood, Lothlorien, Rivendell, were fairly small compared to Minas Tirith. So if Minas Tirith fell he can then concentrate on the other places and I really dont see him emptying his lands like he did when they road out to the black gates. His loss at Minas Tirith didn't really phase him too bad, but it hurt him a lot more then if he would have been victorious at Minas Tirith. He still had many orcs and men at his disposal, and a victory at Minas Tirith would have only made him stronger. I think it was key for Minas Tirith to stay intact, atleast key to the "real" quest, the ring's destruction, Minas Tirith falls, he wouldn't be as distracted anymore. That is my take on things, I also might have misunderstood your point.

[Fingolfin II]

These are good points, Tuor of Gondolin and Boromir. Though the taking of Minas Tirith was nothing compared to the 'real' Quest to destroy the Ring, it would have gone ill with Frodo and Sam if Denethor and Gandalf did not defend Minas Tirith like they did.

With no defense, thousands more people would have died, Aragorn wouldn't have come to Gondor's aid on the Corsair ships, Merry and Eowyn wouldn't have defeated the Witch-King and Aragorn wouldn't be recognised as the King of Gondor by his own people had the people of Gondor just sat tight, or tried to flee.

However, though Sauron's forces could have focussed on other places, such as Mirkwood, Rivendell and Lothlorien, it wouldn't do him a great deal of good in the greater scheme of things. His forces of orcs, though they far outnumber the free peoples of Middle-Earth, could not penetrate Lothlorien or Rivendell, unless Sauron himself came there. Something he probably wouldn't do without the Ring. Sure his forces may overcome Mirkwood- they overcame Erebor, without the extra forces that he would gain from being defied passively by Gondor- but what would it mean for him in the end? That he has gained Mirkwood and killed Thranduil's people, but in the long run, he still hasn't come closer to achieving his target- to get the Ring.

Sauron attacked Gondor as he thought that the Ring would be taken there, and he feared it's use against him-

'Indeed he is in great fear, not knowing what mighty one may suddenly appear, wiedling the ring, and assailing him with war, seeking to cast him down and take his place.' (The White Rider)

This is what Sauron would have done in the place of the Ringbearer, and this is his folly. If Gondor offered no defense, then Sauron could walk all over them and face a smaller force of Rohan by itself. In the case of such a weaker force (let's say about 3000-4000 people, including Gandalf, Aragorn, Elladan, Elrohir, etc.), Sauron probably wouldn't be foolish enough to use all of his forces against Aragorn and take his bait- or then again, he might.

'Hardly has our strength sufficed to beat off the first great assault. The next will be greater. This war then is without final hope, as Denethor perceived. Victory cannot be achieved by arms, whether you sit here to endure siege after siege, or march out to be overwhelmed beyond the River.' (The Last Debate)

So here we can see that even if Gondor 'endures siege after siege', they still can't distract Sauron's full attention, and that they are only a small (but important) part in Sauron's overall scheme- he despises Men and fears Aragorn. The only way to get his attention is by marching to the Black Gate and posing a direct threat (and mental challenge) to his great personal stronghold of Mordor. If Gondor retreated, or if Denethor did not resist Sauron's forces and defended Gondor like he did, it would be with a smaller force that the might of Mordor would be challenged- one that Sauron may not deem strong enough to be worth emptying his lands for, as they simply did not have the numbers to keep the battle going in earnest long enough for Frodo to reach Mount Doom via his free passage through Mordor (as Gandalf said, in his infinite wisdom during the chapter of the Last Debate).

Another factor in all of my mixed jumble of thoughts is the Nazgul. Assuming that Rohan would have come too late to aid Gondor, but 'stop the orcs from feasting' on the flesh of the Gondorians (as Hirgon said to Theoden), the Witch-King might not have been killed by Merry and Eowyn; a huge blow for the 'goodies'. The King of the Nazgul would be riding the fastest steed (most likely) and might have made it back in time to Mount Doom when Frodo claimed the Ring for his own, so that we might have had the fall of Middle-Earth to Sauron, or alternatively, one of the endings where the Nazgul did make it back in time to Mount Doom (see Sauron Defeated: The End of the Third Age (The History of the Lord of the Rings, Part Four), which in my opinion, were far inferior to the canonical ending of the Quest.

So, it could have gone either way, really, but I'm more in favour that not defending Gondor would have been detrimental to the Quest, if not for the sole reason that Sauron would deferred his forces to other places, or reinforced the guard on Mordor, so that Frodo and Sam could not penetrate to Mount Doom. Those are just my thoughts, feel free to rebutt them .

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

If someone invaded New Jersey would you withdraw to Pennsylvania?

Before the Siege of Gondor, no enemy has ever stepped foot inside Minas Tirith. That should count against their withdrawal.

As for the strategic implications of such a move, I think you've said much already. I can't think of anything to add yet.

[lindil]

It is certainly a fair question, but there is much [as has been said in the earlier replies] to be said for Minas Tirith as a focal point, for the West and Sauron.

The point of Aragorn's Kingship is a major one. But also it is symbolically the capitol of the Exiles of Numenor. If it falls, their last outpost goes the way of Arnor and the Dunedain their will all become rangers and their families living in some 'hidden fastness'. The Gondorians were seemingly very proud, eeven in their decay. And none maybe more so than Denethor himself. He clearly was not going to move himself one inch from the seat of his power till he was deluded by the palantir into assuming the Ships coming from the South were the Corsairs.

Also, there is something within the demands of the story itself, all military strategy aside that necessitates a City of the good guys. So far in the story Edoras and Bree and Laketown are the representative dwellings of Men. Hardly anything that could have been a central rallying point against Sauron for thousands of years.

Always goods to examine strategies though - and not get oneself caught in a 'seige mentality' in any part of one's life, so a most worthy thread topic methinks.

[Son of Númenor]

In light of its outcome, I don't see how the defense of Minas Tirith could be construed as a strategic error.

However, for the purpose of the thread, I suppose we are putting aside the outcome to look at what other possibilites Gandalf, the Gondorians and the Rohirrim had in their fight against Sauron.

gradually withdraw in a slow, fighting, scorched-earth type pullback

Keep in mind, when the Rohirrim finally reached Minas Tirith, it was already under siege. How then, could they have engaged the enemy in another part of Gondor? They would have nothing to withdraw to except hordes of enemies between them and Minas Tirith. As for the Gondorians, they had no choice but to defend their keep: they were extremely out-manned and had no hope in any kind of major offensive maneuvre against a much larger and stronger army. Their only hope lay in defending a city that was well-protected and hard for enemy forces to penetrate.

The Rohirrim would have had no hope of fighting Sauron's foes head-on, even in a 'scorched-earth' battle; the primary purpose of the scorched-earth tactics use by the Russians in WWII was to destroy supplies so the Germans would freeze or starve to death. In the case of Sauron's armies, they were probably very well-equipped to begin with as far as food and supplies, the weather wasn't nearly as cold as the western USSR's, and the period of time in which the Rohirrim fought Sauron would have been too small for a scorched-earth policy to have any real effect on Sauron's army. The Rohirrim, instead, were able to utilize their strength. The strength of Minas Tirith was in defense, as it had been their primary means of warfare for hundreds of years. The Rohirrim were cavaliers, and so were best utilized in this battle as a charging force, who could do serious damage by attacking the enemy's weak flank, and who could draw attention away from the siege.

Gandalf's plan, even if it could be called a tactical risk (which I would dispute based on the above, and also because any military strategy they had adopted would necessarily be risky against an army as powerful as Sauron's), I don't think it could be called a tactical error. It was well-executed with the means available, and ultimately led to a victory.

[Kuruharan]

I think we can be fairly confident that the armies of Middle earth were fed and supplied in a "conventional" way. Probably even the Elves had a supply train of some sort when they went on campaign.

But describing all that would not have made interesting reading. I mean, who would want to read the quartermaster's report for the 23rd Morgul (Witch King's Own) Regiment for March 11, 3019?

[Sandro]

Going back to the beginning, how to you propose to evactuate a city of thousands? Civilians travel slow and are easy targets. Sauron would find out that Minas Tirith had been evacuated and would send his army in fast pursuit. The walls were what saved the forces of Gondor. Without them, the army would have been slaughtered. The orcs would have no need for siege engines, and thus would move faster. Nazgul could harry the retreat. Depending on the time frame, saruman's forces could be a factor. Where do they retreat to? Edoras? Too small and lightly fortified. The Hornburg? They would be starved into submission. No, the descision to remain in the White City was the only choice available. Anything else would have resulted in untold destruction and death.

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by Sandro

No, the descision to remain in the White City was the only choice available. Anything else would have resulted in untold destruction and death.

It depends on the level of supplies/rations that have been allocated in Minas Tirith by the authorities and who the recepients were. Remember that more supplies translate into longer holdout times for armed defenders. time-based attrition may meant nothing to the armies of Sauron, but the Gondorians were placing the ante on the arrival of the Rohirrim and the return of the King, every second bought was an added advantage.

The same can be said of the English garrison at Chateau Gaillard in Normandy. When Philip of France invaded in 1202, the English commander - Roger de Lacy could only hope to hold out as long as he could until King John arrived with reinforcements. A quick stock check of the castle's supplies showed that by rationing meagrely, the armed defenders could theoratically hold out for another one year or so. As such non-combatants were ruthlessly cast out of the castle walls and left to fend for themselves in no-man's land. Relief for the hapless innocents came only when Philip toured the siegeworks and gave them a escape route through the ranks of the French army to the rear and fed them.

In RoTK, Pippin joined the Gondorian Beregrond and the men of his watch in a meal that was rather generous but nevertheless rationed. I should suspect that as the siege drags on, rations would be more meagre and scarcer still. Who knows if Beregrond's copmpany had already compromised their allocated ration stocks by feeding a "halfling prince"? Feeding a city of civilians would be highly uneconomical and would sap the will of armed soldiers through inadequacy of rations or distractions. Housing civilians also meant that considerations such as hospital beds and field surgery must be provided to them in addition to physically protecting their bodies. And should the walls be breached, progressive street fighting strategies and tactics would be compromised because bridges can't be demolished in fears of isolating some non-combatants on the other end and apartment blocks cannot be converted into stronghouses because they were occupied and the occupants did not evacuate in time.

Evacuation of non-combatants was still the safer bet.

[Kuruharan]

Yes, but would a full one (guards and all) be stratigically superior? To abandon Minas Tirith would be to abandon the last line of defense against Mordor.

To be honest, I don't really have an opinion about which strategy would have been better. I can see benefits to withdrawing from Minas Tirith. However, I think it would be impossible to get Denethor to abandon the city.

From a storytelling perspective, Tolkien needed one big dramatic battle, not a long drawn out campaign of small skirmishes.

[Sandro]

True Kuruharan, it did work for the story.

Sauron's objective was to destroy Gondor's people by any means possible. If they evacuated only civilians, he would hunt them down. In the wilderness, fleeing from Sauron, feeding an entire city of people on the go, with no time to set up farms and a permanent abode would be worse for the people. Starvation would set in even faster outside the city as it would inside. At least they had food stores inside the White City.

Also there was a motive here that affected strategy grately. The whole point of holding out against a seige was to keep Sauron's gaze fixed on Gondor; giving Frodo and Sam enough time to destroy the Ring. If it worked, better to have lost a few civilians of starvation then to have a lot slaughtered by roving bands of Wargs and Orcs. If Frodo and Sam failed would it really matter if they were inside the White City or in Anorien? Either way, they would be screwed.

[Kuruharan]

Well, a partial evacuation of the city had already taken place.... Many civilians were already gone.

[Sandro]

Yes, but would a full one (guards and all) be stratigically superior? To abandon Minas Tirith would be to abandon the last line of defense against Mordor.