Riddles in the Downs

[Urwen]

The only chasers in middle Earth are the Nine, and the three Hunters, but you already denied the guess connected to latter, so it must be the former. Which furthers my supposition that it must be related to Frodo in some way.


Am I on right track here?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The only chasers in middle Earth are the Nine, and the three Hunters, but you already denied the guess connected to latter, so it must be the former. Which furthers my supposition that it must be related to Frodo in some way.


Am I on right track here?

No. Remember, the line is "lest they chase you". The subject is merely in danger of being pursued.

[Urwen]

Maybe Galadriel/Haldir?


They advised the Fellowship to traverse Anduin - the greatest running water in Third Age - in hopes of outrunning Saruman's Orcs.

[Nerwen]

No. Just to make this clear, no-one in the Fellowship is involved.

But- I just realised that G55 had guessed part of it, but not as her "official" question. Sorry- I missed that before. G55, revisit your failures and look more closely!. (or Urwen can do it, since she's around.)

[Urwen]

Boromir is in the Fellowship, and Nienor is not from the third age. That leaves the barrels.


.....Thranduil?

[Nerwen]

Well, that's the guess I meant... but the speaker isn't Thranduil. You need to think a bit laterally here...

[Galadriel55]

That one barrel that smelled of apples?...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That one barrel that smelled of apples?...

Yep!

"I hope I never smell the smell of apples again!" said Fili. "My tub was full of it. To smell apples everlastingly when you can scarcely move and are cold and sick with hunger is maddening. I could eat anything in the whole wide world now, for hours on end- but not an apple!"

And again, my apologies for not noticing before- my eye must have skipped over the "failed" guesses you mentioned.

Well done!

[Galadriel55]

I'm just happy I didn't forget some major event related to rivers. Will make a new one tonight.

[Galadriel55]

Another simple one:


You gaze at me
And turn to Him.
You hoped for neither.

I swallow light,
I swallow foes.
I'm not the final doom.

I serve myself.
I come and go.
I do not parley.

[Urwen]

Sounds like someone with an unrequited love.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Sounds like someone with an unrequited love.

No comment

(Keep thinking)

[Urwen]

All right. The list of people with unrequited love


Daeron, the original
Maeglin
Gwindor
Finduilas
Brandir
Ungoliant (she yearned for Silmarili)


Any of these?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

All right. The list of people with unrequited love


Daeron, the original
Maeglin
Gwindor
Finduilas
Brandir
Ungoliant (she yearned for Silmarili)


Any of these?

None. Sorry if my last post was misleading - I just thought that guess was too general for a comment. I meant keep thinking about other possibilities.

[Nerwen]

Hmmn. This would more-or-less fit, if not Ungoliant, then Shelob... but I suspect it's a Place or Thing rather than a Person, Beast or Monster...

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hmmn. This would more-or-less fit, if not Ungoliant, then Shelob... but I suspect it's a Place or Thing rather than a Person, Beast or Monster...

"You hoped for neither" definitely feels like one of the instruments of suicide - but who/what? I'm wondering at Gurthang, who has the right feel for most of it, except that would make capital-Him someone like Brandir or Mablung; Turin didn't turn away from Gurthang at the end.

hS

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

"You hoped for neither" definitely feels like one of the instruments of suicide - but who/what? I'm wondering at Gurthang, who has the right feel for most of it, except that would make capital-Him someone like Brandir or Mablung; Turin didn't turn away from Gurthang at the end.

hS

No... I thought of Gurthang too, but I don't think it fits.

What "swallows light"?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What "swallows light"?

Something dark .

You were on the right track with your speculation of the nature of the speaker.

[Urwen]

If it isn't Gurthang, then it's its brother, Anguirel, that went away after its wielder/owner was thrown off a cliffside.....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If it isn't Gurthang, then it's its brother, Anguirel, that went away after its wielder/owner was thrown off a cliffside.....

Not a sword / weapon.

[Urwen]

Utumno?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Utumno?

Does it serve itself, come and go, or fit any line except perhaps swallowing light?

If you tell me hints are in order I will specify / clarify some things.

[Urwen]

I'd say they're needed, but others might disagree.


Ungoliant fits, but you said no to her.

[Urwen]

Wait. How about Caragdur/Amon Gwareth? It's described as 'dark' and it brought death to two different characters. (Yeah, I am obsessed....)


Alternatively, it could be Cabed-En-Aras/Cabed Naeramarth, the cliff Nienor threw herself from.

[Galadriel55]

Okay... 2 hints to speed it up:

1. It's not a First Age thing.
2. "He" is described as part of the final doom, whereas the main subject of the riddle is not (though by rights could have been named such as much as He was.)

[Urwen]

The thing that keeps coming and going and didn't exist in the first age?


The only thing that fits both of these criteria is the One Ring. It is described as 'having a will of its own' which is to return to Sauron. It is also proven to abandon people.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The only thing that fits both of these criteria is the One Ring. It is described as 'having a will of its own' which is to return to Sauron. It is also proven to abandon people.

Good thought, but no. For the record, it only really comes and goes once, it doesn't do as many repeats as the Ring. Also, don't get fixated on objects.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Good thought, but no. For the record, it only really comes and goes once, it doesn't do as many repeats as the Ring. Also, don't get fixated on objects.

Well, places don't generally come and go, and you don't do people very often....

[Urwen]

Hmmmm.....maybe Guilduin? It is a river, therefore, it is moving, and I suppose it could swallow the light too....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, places don't generally come and go, and you don't do people very often....

Well, I gotta keep you on your toes, right? Never exclude a category because this just might be the exception.

But no, It's not a person, and while it's not exactly a place it could be thought of as such.

Not a river.

[Huinesoron]

Okay, I'm now thinking islands, so:

NUMENOR. The Edain (and specifically Ar-Pharazon) considers Numenor, but turns to Melkorism, while longing for the Undying Lands. The island ultimately destroyed the light it was given, while its people overwhelmed all their foes, and its Downfall is not the End of Days. Numenor as a kingdom is its own master, which does not bargain with its enemies - and yeah, it comes, and goes.

Or...

FASTITOCALON, for basically the same reasons. ^_^ "Ah! foolish folk, who land on HIM!"

hS

[Galadriel55]

Not an island - but another good idea.

Think of this. Places and things that define places usually can't come and go. Numenor can be explained that way, but the answer is inland. What else cqme and went, unexpectedly?

[Urwen]

Balrog of Moria certainly came and went unexpectedly.


So did Shelob.


And neither one is technically a person.....


Or Watcher in the Water, who swallowed the light by shutting it out via door drop, and nearly swallowed Frodo.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Balrog of Moria certainly came and went unexpectedly.


So did Shelob.


And neither one is technically a person.....


Or Watcher in the Water, who swallowed the light by shutting it out via door drop, and nearly swallowed Frodo.

I told you it's more of a place than an individual creature by any name. Not a person or person-like thing.

[Galadriel55]

Also, think of when parley could have been happening.

[Urwen]

I am running out of ideas.


Barad-Dur?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Barad-Dur?

No. You want something with a will of its own, not something with Sauron's will.

Originally Posted by Urwen

I am running out of ideas.

Ok. How about: come and go means it comes to a different location, not just appears and disappears on the time scale? What is a feature of a place/setting that unexpectedly changes LOCATION?

[Urwen]

I can't seem to recall any such place in Tolkien Legendarium.....

[Urwen]

Forest of Fangorn?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Forest of Fangorn?

Very very close. Be a little more specific.