WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Volo

As much as you have said, I don't feel too safe with you, Rikae. The stuff you have is not special - except for the fact that you were the first to bring up such a post - anyone who bothers can write an analysis on each post and sounds reasonable, even a Wolf. And this is what a Wolf would want to write, because quite often such posts bring followers and trust. Some players don't have the nerve not to trust anybody except themselves and it's the easiest to trust a person who makes more sense than others.

True enough. However, I don't think Rikae's post was any more suspicious than the other's posts have been. I mean, just anything can be called wolf-ish behaviour.

What comes to the quiet/loud -discussion, I fail to see it as anything but pointless.

Because of the continuous accusations on Valier, I read through her post again. Nothing too suspicious there, except maybe for this a little unnerving phrase:

Originally Posted by Valier

But sometimes getting rid of at least the ones who have no excuse for their quietness is best.

If Valier is a wolf, that would be a perfect guise. If, as a wolf, she finds nothing too "suspicious" about anyone, she can just rely on voting for a quiet person.
Otherwise I don't find Valier exceptionally wolf-ish. Besides, I have the impression that she is an experienced player. If so, she would probably not post a phrase like that as a wolf.

Originally Posted by Fea

Wolves have nothing to do with the mod's death, therefore until Day Two, they have nothing to hide. Which means that unless they're really stupid, they're not going to give us anything to go on.

So true, so true. We'd need a wolf to practically slip what he is to get any proper accusations toDay.

Therefore, as for my suspicions, I cannot say anything just yet.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Fea

Which means that unless they're really stupid, they're not going to give us anything to go on.

And it would work too if all the Innocents kept quiet. The more we talk, the more the Wolves have to talk not to show out - and that way they do give us substance to read on later Days. No, Fea, I don't agree with you - many players have "Fenris Wolf" in their sigs and that itself proves that Day1s are not for outright assuming that random votes (or based on anything that they really shouldn't be based, such as things that don't have anything to do with this current game) are the best solution.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I don't see especially that point as strange either. I can see where you are coming from, but I'd say whatever anyone says, be it only his own opinion, is worth something - at least to us others. We can later use that for analysis.

Point taken. I guess I was being over-critical.

For the rest of it, though... well, I do think some of her comments show a bit of a double-standard. For instance, she finds my first post to be somewhat suspicious because all I did was remind everyone to consider the timezone issue before they start lynching people for being too quiet. In her view, there's not enough substance there– and yet she has no problem with people who have done nothing at all but joke.

Understand that I'm criticizing her arguments on grounds of inconsistency, not making an accusation.

EDIT: X'd with Volo and A Little Green.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Fea: Good! That was exactly what I wanted to hear from you. Thank you. You see, I know there is no concrete evidence on Day 1, but at least you now let us get an image of how you think. A person who appears and says "Hello" does not say anything about herself, and a person who says "I had bread for breakfast, then a cup of tea, then I used a bus to get to work, then I was there two hours, then I returned but not by bus but my friend's car whom I met and we were talking about Bill Hailey all the way" does say many things about herself, but not things that are valid for WW.

Volo: I don't exactly know what you would imagine under me posting "my thoughts a little bit clearer". I said everything I wanted and these were my opinions. I don't know what you mean by "backing up other players", but I would consider saying "I agree with this one. I agree with that one." a serious problem - but that's obviously not what I was doing. I said what I wanted and see no problem with it. If you do, please explain more concretely what would you like to see from me.

EDIT: x-ed since Little Green's post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nerwen, apology accepted, but why do you seem now suddenly all too self-critical? Or, self-defensive? Don't overdo it, or I may start to suspect you!

Note to Volo's post - for Fea - see? Now this is what I meant - if you post something that has substance, people may start to react to you. Not that it always is a good thing, but that's for another debate

Originally Posted by Lilla Greenhand

If Valier is a wolf, that would be a perfect guise. If, as a wolf, she finds nothing too "suspicious" about anyone, she can just rely on voting for a quiet person.
Otherwise I don't find Valier exceptionally wolf-ish. Besides, I have the impression that she is an experienced player. If so, she would probably not post a phrase like that as a wolf.

*Notes down: if she and Valier are the wolves, this would be very good move. Keep in mind for further.*

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Volo: I don't exactly know what you would imagine under me posting "my thoughts a little bit clearer". I said everything I wanted and these were my opinions. I don't know what you mean by "backing up other players", but I would consider saying "I agree with this one. I agree with that one." a serious problem - but that's obviously not what I was doing. I said what I wanted and see no problem with it. If you do, please explain more concretely what would you like to see from me.

I started my thoughts about you a bit too harshly - saying that I suspect you more than others was a bit unfair. It just bothered me that you had no clear thoghts on anybody, everybody you mentioned going both ways (flip-flopping?). But like Fea said - and I agree with her about this - there are no hard facts to base your thoughts on. I forgot that provoking you and your guts doesn't work...

Then again, in your last post you say it again - "Good! That was exactly what I wanted to hear from you. Thank you.", well what do you think of it if it's good enough to think about?


EDIT: Xd with Legate.

[Thinlómien]

First off, hats off to Volo. (Yes, there were enough "off"'s. ) I think he's making the most sense this far.

Originally Posted by Volo

I think Day1 "random" votes should rather be directed at quiet players, because otherwise they'll be directed at the quiet players on later Days for paranoia more than clear thoughts.

I think they should be prohibited by a law. I'm not sure if it's very reasonable, but I always suspect random-voters. *eyes fellow players suspiciously*

Fea is succeeding in making me laugh. On other things, I'm not sure. While she does have a point about Day1s and is straightforwardly acting on it, I must say I disagree with her style. I can't really call her attitude suspicious (even though I could call it pessimistic fatalism). Yes, Day1s are most useful afterwards, so please don't disinclude from the people whose posts can be analysed later by saying only bantery stuff on Day1. I don't, however, mean that you, Fea, are doing it, since your last post was definitely substantial, if not helpful.

Originally Posted by ALG

If Valier is a wolf, that would be a perfect guise. If, as a wolf, she finds nothing too "suspicious" about anyone, she can just rely on voting for a quiet person.
Otherwise I don't find Valier exceptionally wolf-ish. Besides, I have the impression that she is an experienced player. If so, she would probably not post a phrase like that as a wolf.

I don't find anything particularly suspicious with that. I do it quite often regardless of my role.

Originally Posted by ALG

So true, so true. We'd need a wolf to practically slip what he is to get any proper accusations toDay.

Now this makes me a bit worried. I don't know what should I think of A Little Green. She's very quick to agree, especially if someone says something is useless and keeps herself calling things pointless. Surely an innocent person would be a bit more... well, eager to take the challenge and find the wolves and wouldn't mind dicussing. She seems somewhat too distant and fatalistic for me to be comfortable about her...

Now, I know I said there's nothing partuicularly suspicious in Fea's attitude but that Little Green (how should be your name be shortened, by the way? ALG sounds somewhat silly...) seems suspicious to me. The differences are that Fea was the first one to start that useless-stuff and ALG just followed and while Fea's attitude suits her as a person and seems completely characteristic, ALG's attitude seems a little feigned and forced.

Anyway, as ALG is a newbie, I'm not too sure my points are valid. Everybody knows newbies agree with and are affected by charismatic and intelligent more experienced players. Her newbieness might also be a clue why some of her points seem a bit odd to me - after all, she does not know this game as well as I do. (By which I don't mean that my points would be any more valid in general or I'd be any smarter, just that I have - or I should have - more idea about how the game usually goes.)

edit: xed with a few posts

[Aganzir]

Wonderful to see there's been this much discussion and not only Day 1 banter.

I can understand why especially those for whom the previous game was their first want to lynch quiet ones, but it always makes my alarm ring when a relatively vocal player says that there probably are wolves hiding among the quiet. If the roles were given randomly, I think that's not a valid argument.

We had a discussion about lynching the quiet ones with Lommy some weeks ago, and I agree with her about it being possible to catch a quiet wolf by seeing how other wolves (and everybody else) treat them. With four wolves in the village, I dare say it's not that difficult to get one by pure luck.

But everyone has their own style to play, and it's unfair to always lynch the quiet ones "just to make it sure". And really, what does it matter whether one loses to a quiet or a vocal player? It's so easy to say "I lost because the one who won played unfairly, ie. was so silent I didn't realise he was a wolf". Maybe one should pay extra attention to the quiet ones if he thinks it would be more embarrassing to lose to one.
Sorry if I sound aggressive, I certainly don't mean to. I just think one shouldn't blame the wolf and his way of playing if one doesn't manage to catch him.

I haven't had time to form opinions about everybody, but here are some thoughts.

Volo: There was very little to go on in his first posts, but the last one (#39) strikes me as quite genuine.

Brinniel: I found her first post somehow empty. The second post makes me feel much better though.

Nerwen: A good and reasonable player, even with only one game behind her. I think Rikae had a good point about her saying little, but then again, it's just Day 1. The thing that makes me a little uncertain is how she started behaving after Rikae pointed out something slightly suspicious in her posts. It looks like she tries to get Rikae use her energy in defending & explaining herself, rather than going on suspecting Nerwen. See post #31.

Rikae: I definitely agree with her that even Day 1 can be spent usefully, and mostly agree about everything else she said. She's been quite sensible, and at the moment I don't feel like lynching her.

A Little Greenie: Even though she's a newbie, don't underestimate her. I've played mafia with her several times, and every time she's guilty she fools me completely. I'm definitely going to watch you extra-carefully this time.

Lommy: I guess I'm able (at least I should be, given how long we've known each other) to read her quite well, and this far there's been nothing that should make me feel she's a wolf.

Legate and Menel both look quite genuine.

I somewhat disagree with Feanor on what she said about Day 1. The wolves always have something to hide: that they've received a pm that says they're wolves. They know they're guilty even before they've actually killed anyone, and that can sometimes be seen in their behaviour.

I have not yet a clear opinion about the others.

edit: xed since Greenie

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Nerwen, apology accepted, but why do you seem now suddenly all too self-critical? Or, self-defensive? Don't overdo it, or I may start to suspect you!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Point taken. I guess I was being over-critical.

I'm not siding with Nerwen now, but that's also what I felt like saying after you stared at me. Now is Legate just right and has water-proof points or does he hold the voice of Saruman once again?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Note to Volo's post - for Fea - see? Now this is what I meant - if you post something that has substance, people may start to react to you. Not that it always is a good thing, but that's for another debate

I guess this would answer my question.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

*Notes down: if she and Valier are the wolves, this would be very good move. Keep in mind for further.*

Well, not good enough as it was spotted... Now this makes me want to lean to lynching Valier and finding out what she is. I'll try to take the feeling critically.


EDIT: Xd with Lommy and Aganzir.

[Macalaure]

Well, well...

Shall we lynch a quiet one, a loud one, a weird one, or an actually suspicious one? I'm not going to touch the question due to its obviousness, I'd just like to point out that those who speak on this matter with good Hobbit sense do not look less suspicious to me because of it. It's too easy for a wolf to appear innocent by speaking sense in irrelevant matters.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Macalaure - This may not be quite kosher, but I talk to Mac every day and can read him fairly well, if I say so myself. He's given none of his typical "hiding something" vibes so far.

Not kosher indeed. You would have to be able to read me exceptionally well in order to catch any vibes from those few lines of exclusive joking. Sure, it's an opinion and therefore perfectly okay to be stated (I don't see Nerwen's objection at all), but I don't see how you could have gotten there.

Which brings me to Nerwen. I get the feeling that she is much more tense than she was in her first game. What she says isn't necessarily suspicious, but her tone makes me uneasy.

Of course, Rikae's analysis of people is not cutting edge - how could it be? Obviously, it was only intended to get the ball rolling - and it was successful with it. I don't see why Legate takes an issue with it in #34.

Volo looks suspicious to me. First he criticises Rikae along the lines Legate did, but much stronger, then he agrees with her and conveniently jumps on the Valier-bandwaggon (#39).

I disagree with Fea's statement that we won't catch a wolf today unless s/he's stupid. The sharper we look, the less stupid a wolf has to be in order to be caught. Still, her statement at least is genuine - other than the ones of those who agreed with her. *coughalittlegreenandvolocough*

(edit: crossed with Lommy, Aganzir, and Volo)

[Kath]

Here I am again, as I promised. The earlier post seemed to be giving people trouble. I didn't have time to post anything substantial but I wanted to make sure I got notifications from the thread so I could keep up a bit easier so I just posted those few words.

Couple of things have grabbed my attention so far. Nerwen and Rikae's little argument seems to be a bit central. Nerwen, I can't see that there's anything wrong with Rikae offering her opinion on Mac. Ok, so it's based on outside knowledge but then technically any impressions we carry over from past games are outside knowledge as well. For example, the one person I can generally guess the role of is Mith, simply because I know her style quite well, and others are aware of that and sometimes (when they're not about to lynch me ) take that into account. I for one don't think you should be shy about offering any thoughts that might help us.

Still, I think that argument has pretty much been settled now which is good. Though it has left me with some lingering suspicion of Nerwen, who seems a little jumpy.

I'm feeling pretty ok with Rikae though, and with Lommy, who seems to be the loudmouth of the village so far, except for one comment:

Everybody knows newbies agree with and are affected by charismatic and intelligent more experienced players.

I'm not sure this can really be used as an excuse for suspicious behaviour from a newbie. Just look at the last game with Nerwen especially having her own thoughts and not really being affected by the opinions of older players (as far as I could see anyway). I'm not saying A Little Green - hmm, just Green maybe as a shortening? - is suspicious, I can't because I haven't looked at her, but maybe she is quite aware that she can get away with hiding behind her newbie status. That I think though is a thought for Days to come, I don't want to go lynching newbies on the first Day.

Just got to say as well, little suspicious that morm's only posted the once. Phew, and there's the old rivalry dealt with. To be clear those who don't get this, I am kidding.

Are we still waiting on people to post? Ooh yes we are, Farael. I thought it seemed a little quiet!

Right, I'm off again for a little while. Should be back before too long.

EDIT: Cross posted with Mac.

[Nerwen]

There appear to be two schools of thought about the value of doing serious wolf-hunting on the first Day. I'm somewhere in the middle– I think it's worth analysing posts for signs of wolfishness, but also that catching one will take a large amount of luck.

(This, I admit, is based on almost no experience.)

There's also the problem that people who look for wolves too hard now can wind up looking wolfish themselves– they really don't have much to build on, so they seem to be making baseless accusations. This is one of the reasons I'm not accusing Rikae even though some of her arguments are, in my view, a bit strange. I think she's most likely just trying to work with what she's got.

EDIT: X'd with Kath, Mac and Volo.

[The Might]

lol, I again seem to have managed to get all against me thinking I'm the wolf...and this is the second time in the row.
Actually I said that because I want to avoid what I needed to do last time, vote for someone without any proof whatsoever.
Just as Feanor already said her choice will be a member she is concerned with I also wanted to explain who I'll take on the first day.

[Kuruharan]

Kuru knows more about WWing than Sandyman does of boating.
Rikae

Oh, thank y…wait…what?

At the moment I’m inclined to be suspicious of people who are talking about making decisions based upon arbitrary reasons rather than on what is actually happening in the game.

This is causing me to focus on The Might due to his desire to lynch people based on whether they are loud or quiet and…

Unfortunately…that’s all that I’ve got to think about right now…

More unfortunately, I’m suspicious of my suspicion because it seems too easy.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Nerwen, I can't see that there's anything wrong with Rikae offering her opinion on Mac.

You're right, Kath, and you'll notice I've taken it back already. I was starting to get suspicious of Rikae anyway at that point because of her oddly contradictory arguments, and the way she seemed to be twisting my words, but I've changed my mind about her (see #52).

Besides, she got lynched the first Day last game!

[Kuruharan]

Besides, she got lynched the first Day last game!

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

[Thinlómien]

Nerwen, since you seem to be flip-flopping on that matter, do you suspect Rikae or not?

Nerwen's or Brinn's latter posts have given me no reason to lessen my suspicion of them. They and Greenie (I like that one for a nickname) are my main suspects ie the only people who seem even somewhat suspicious.

Aganzir (seems to be reasonable and calm and arguments in an innocent way, though I can't really elaborate on that in a comprehensible manner) , Volo (makes generally the most sense) and Mac (his tone seems far more relaxed than when he's a wolf, besides his post made me laugh ) seem innocent to me and Legate and Valier too (both are just gut-feelings and based on their normal-seeming behaviour), but to a lesser extent. Of the rest I really can't conclude much.

The Might then... now his latest post was definitely a bit odd and even slightly suspicious, but suspicious in an innocent way, if you know what I mean...

EDIT: xed with Kuru twice and Nerwen once

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Mac

I disagree with Fea's statement that we won't catch a wolf today unless s/he's stupid. The sharper we look, the less stupid a wolf has to be in order to be caught. Still, her statement at least is genuine - other than the ones of those who agreed with her. *coughalittlegreenandvolocough*

Might I ask you when did I agree with her? When I said that there are no hard facts on Day1? Yes, I did agree with that, but that is all with which I agreed. I do not prefer random votes, basicly because they're unfair and because they leave no trails - only by leaving trails can the Innocents get the Wolves to leave trails as they follow behind.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Volo looks suspicious to me. First he criticises Rikae along the lines Legate did, but much stronger, then he agrees with her and conveniently jumps on the Valier-bandwaggon (#39).

Legate's talk is too subtle and it leaves an open path for him to change the meaning of his words later on, but I see nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae. I have no way of proving it, but I wrote my post about Rikae before I read Legate's and decided not to change it when I got to it.

I'm not happy with voting Valier, but I haven't found any better reasons to vote anybody else. I hope she will return before any bandwagons will take place.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Might I ask you when did I agree with her? When I said that there are no hard facts on Day1?

Exactly that. You didn't agree to everything she said, but it was in the same line. But this was only a small comment and not the reason for my suspicion about you.

Originally Posted by Volo

I do not prefer random votes, basicly because they're unfair and because they leave no trails

And wasting a chance to lynch a wolf, even if it's not a good one, is not a reason against it?? But let's not start/keep on discussing this.

Originally Posted by Volo

Legate's talk is too subtle and it leaves an open path for him to change the meaning of his words later on, but I see nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae. I do it as well, though only very little. But I think the reason "her analysis was not helpful enough" is a bad and a suspicious reason.

I see where your suspicion of Legate comes from, but I don't share it. He doesn't strike me as a Wolf of Amon Gaur (yet).

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I really can't get what's so suspicious about Valier. I think she seems quite normal. Besides I'd be sad to lose her early if she hasn't lost her incredible hunches and also because she hasn't played for a while. Actually, I might say a few words on that topic. Unless she, Kuru, Fea, Farael or morm do something really suspicious or there has to be made a choice between some of them and someone who seems more innocent, I'm reluctant to lynch them today. I won't, of course, be as merciful later, but I'd be very sad to see one of them go early since I haven't played with them for a long time. (Now that I think of it, have I ever played with Kuru actually? I'm not sure, probably not.) I have a bit similar attitude towards A Little Green, since this is her first game.

This thought here is not sound logic and will amount to trouble. I've only read to hear...too many european posters so a lot to catch up on in the morning. Anyway, it's good practice to lynch Fea on Day 1 as she generally only causes problems the later it goes. But what you said is interesting when compared to what you said previous to this.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Another thing I learned was that I really should drop the loud & famous people from a certain pedestal I've lifted them to. I still think it's challenging & nice to play with them and it is sad to lose them early and that one should be careful about lynching them because they're great assets to the village, BUT I think my past attitude of even somewhat overlooking their suspicious behaviour based on those things I just mentioned is just a bit ridiculous. I mean, surely you shouldn't get away with anything just because you're known to be a good and helpful player?

Being nice doesn't save the village. It appears you contradict yourself slightly in your thought process here.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nerwen, since you seem to be flip-flopping on that matter, do you suspect Rikae or not?

Look, I'm really not sure. I've said why.

Now I want to say this: the conversation of the last few hours is making me very uneasy. I feel that we're all being directed towards seeing certain types of behaviour as suspicious, when they're not really.

I'm not sure where this is coming from, but the intent is pretty clear: the wolves are going to be able to lynch an innocent without leaving a trace. "But X said Y, and we established that Y is what a wolf would say! It was a tragic mistake!"

I urge everyone to re-read all the posts as objectively as they can. Ignore what other people (me included) tell you is suspicious– make up your own mind, because someone is trying to make it up for you.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

Of course. That was a joke!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

The Might - Newbie or no newbie, I dislike his "I don't know who to vote for, so I'll vote a quiet one" statement. As the 3rd post of the day, that's a cop-out if I ever saw one. Of course you don't know yet; but why set up an easy vote when hardly anyone has even spoken? As he IS a newbie, I'm inclined to view this as a reaction to the last game and nothing more -- for now.

Sally - 1st post - after Might states his intent to vote for quiet ones, she has to "make her presence known"? It shows a skittishness that isn't entirely reassurring.

Valier's contradiction of The Might seems too easy. The Might has taken one extreme, Valier the other - it seems almost scripted, and I don't like it - especially since Valier should know it isn't that simple (loud innocents seem to be the most typical Day 1 lynches.) It also continues the fruitless loud/quiet debate.

That was my mistake indeed as I typed my post and forgot to hit submit, not that it matters. Just a bit of clarification. And I am being horribly unproductive. Just read my posts and am surprised people are even bothering to read them. Perhaps the next day I'll be more helpful as I'll have gotten some proper sleep.


I'm already late for class, so here's my take on who we should vote or not vote (in a general sense). I apologize in advance as it will indeed be generalized and probably largely unhelpful, but I'll give it a shot.

I'm reluctant to vote a quiet person just based on their being quiet, as I alluded to before. I'm also hesitant to vote a loud one for the same reason. If someone who is more awake than I wants to somehow unmask a wolf using their cunning and generally snazzy brain power, I'm all for it. But until then I'm thinking that we're going to be running on an educated guess, if even that. Do what you want with my two cents (except throw it at my head lol).


Gotta run! Back a couple hours before deadline to check in.

[Rikae]

To clarify my position on bantering posts:
I don't find them the least bit suspicious as the first post on day one, or as brief responses to others. Many players like to kick off Day 1 with a joke or two, and I see it as harmless, provided they join the actual discussion at some point during the day.
Theclassical "trying to look helpful while saying nothing" post, however, is another matter. The fact is, wolves do know something the rest of us don't - they know who is evil, and who is innocent. Most of the time, they're trying to avoid directing suspicion toward those they know are guilty and have someone they know is innocent lynched - but not in a way that points back to them. Therefore, an empty but vaguely helpful-looking post is often the slip that gets a wolf caught.

Now, regarding Mac - certainly you have no reason to trust my hunches now. However, in the likely event I die at some point during the game, they might help you. I certainly trust my intuition on Mac by now, as I was able to guess his role almost immediately in the last two games.

Well, now. We've heard from a few more people, and conversation seems to be taking off. I don't agree with Fea, but her pessimism seems genuine. Something about Green seemed slightly odd to me when I read her post, although I can't quite put my finger on it. The reluctance to reveal her suspicions, maybe, which doesn't seem to logically follow from the response to Fea.

A word about random votes - I agree with Lommy, they should be outlawed! A random vote does absolutely nothing to help us find wolves, and it masks the meaningless of the wolves' votes. Therefore, anyone who votes without having given some reason for suspicion, is suspicious in my eyes.

Nerwen is indeed acting very defensively, however, unlike Lommy, I seem to recall her behaving similarly in the last. I fear she may be too easy a scapegoat, actually, and the determined way Lommy pursues her is slightly worrisome.

I'm glad to see Kath has joined the discussion, and I don't see anything objectionable in her post.
It is difficult to say anything about Aganzir at this point, but I'd like to know her opinion on Valier.

I'm not sure what Legate is trying to accomplish, or what he wants. He seems to be encouraging continued discussion of generalities, and taking a dominant, teacherly, "Nogrod's apprentice" role. I particularly don't understand why it is useless for me to state my suspicions and opinions of people, but apparently quite helpful if he gives his. I suppose when Legate dies and turns out to be a wolf, those will be useful.

I'm not sure who to vote for at this point. I do find Valier suspicious, and although I'd like the chance to play with her again (I think the only other game we had together was my first), there are good reasons not to vote for pretty much everyone on Day 1. What should we do, decide who's most "expendable" or who's most suspicious?
However, I'm also open to voting Nerwen, and if anyone else sees anything suspicious in Lommy or Legate, I'm listening. (With a little alliteration, no less!)

EDIT: X'd with everyone since Volo.

[Valier]

So I'm very suspicious am I? Hmmmm I don't see it. I don't think I contradicted myself, only stated my opinions, if they are a little flip-floppy it's because it's the first day and I always find it hard to get a grasp on people. Now I am sorry my time is very limited today, and if by me telling you all this is suspicious then....ha you'd be wrong, I really am busy today and I like to let people know, so that makes me wolfish? So far I am getting a werid vibe from Morm....we have well a history, Morm always suspects me, even sometimes pushes to get me killed. This time he is very quiet and unopinionated which is odd for him. Since he has not posted a reason why, I tend to believe that he has some hair up his sleeve. I have about an hour before I gotta run, so i will be rereading everything and voting before I leave. I know my leaving and early vote may just get me lynched today, which would be too bad, since I'm innocent and really hope to kill us some baddies.

[Kuruharan]

mormegil seems to me to be talking sense.

Even though I am uncomfortable with the arbitrary "Let's be on the safe side and kill Fea"...

But I think he's right that Thinlómien's been talking a lot...and it strikes me that she may be putting up a front of being helpful while in actuality stirring up a lot of mess and confusion.

[Kath]

Alright my lovelies I have to go. I'm sorry for not being around much toDay but I have a ball to go to!

So, who to vote for? I must admit I've not had a chance to closely read through the thread since my last visit but the one person who caught my eye was:

++THE MIGHT

He said that he'd got everyone in the village thinking he was a wolf, but so far as I know people have barely mentioned him. I'm not entirely sure that a wolf would bring so much attention to himself, but there's nothing to say this isn't quite a smart double bluff. Anyway, that's it from me for toDay.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

if anyone else sees anything suspicious in Lommy or Legate, I'm listening. (With a little alliteration, no less!)

Try this:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Though, I'm not sure if the feel I get from Nerwen's latest post indicates she might be guilty or that I've picked up the old bad habit of suspecting people I disagree with again... Neverthelesss, I'm keeping an eye on her.

It is quite possible, I think to read this as a threat: "Disagree with me and I'll lynch you". It certainly made me nervous. And I'm starting to feel that Lommy is working a bit too hard at setting up a no-win situation for me. The comment I made about wolf-hunters running the risk of looking wolfish applies to her too, but even so I think she's taking it too far.

I mean, let's look at what I actually said– I said you had misinterpreted a comment I made and I criticized some of your arguments. People said part of the criticism was unfair and I agreed and backed off from it.

Yes, I was indecisive– but toDay people should be indecisive! We've really got very little to go on. And yes, I was defensive, but hey, why shouldn't I be?

I think people need to be wary of this word "defensive". It seems to be a sort of "magic word" in this game.

EDIT: X'd with Kath, Kuru and Valier.

[The Might]

Duh, you take any word way too seriously. If I say the whole village, then it doesn't mean I am talking about everyone. But as in the last time because I might seem suspicious I'm always considered to be a wolf. Then again that's just the way I post.

This vote reminds me of all voting Rikae last time just because she had voted herself, which also is quite uncommon. If you are going to always lynch people because they seem to do something out of the ordinary, then go ahead, but I think that will only make the game grow more and more boring.

It will force all players into the same old patterns of play, always taking care to not use a certain word as it might be your doom. If that's what WW is about, killing anyone that seems out of the ordinary, not necessarily guilty, then count me out of it.

I really don't care if I'll be lynched, it's this "oh look he's saying he doesn't like quiet ones in the 3rd post, let's lnych him for that, because besides him nobody seems strange" theory that I dislike.

[Valier]

Is anyone else around? I gotta run soon and if someone else has questions or something else to bring up that would be great. Right now I am leaning towards Morm....not that I have a good reason...just well a feeling. Sometimes my feelings lead me astray, but I find when in doubt it is best to listen to them. I would hate to lynch an Ordo today, but hey it happens on Day 1, and if that Ordo need be me, well then I guess that would make me a Fenris Ordo. But please I beg you...give me more time to help this village out, I am sure my feelings eventually will lead us to at least one of our furry friends.

[Nerwen]

It's very late here now, or rather very early, and I have to go.

++Thinlómien, a.k.a Lommy Baggins.

Let's face it, despite all this talk of doing our best to catch a wolf the first day, nobody's acted really suspicious yet. However, she's the one I find the most worrying. I've already stated my reasons.

Of course, maybe I'm just taking things too personally.

Goodnight.

[A Little Green]

Hmmmm.

The Might does seem a little weird at the moment. Though I don't quite grasp the point of the "lynch the quiet ones" -attitude, his first post didn't necessarily strike me as suspicious. What comes to his latest post, however...

Originally Posted by The Might

lol, I again seem to have managed to get all against me thinking I'm the wolf...and this is the second time in the row.
Actually I said that because I want to avoid what I needed to do last time, vote for someone without any proof whatsoever.
Just as Feanor already said her choice will be a member she is concerned with I also wanted to explain who I'll take on the first day.

I don't know what to think about that. His defence does look very feeble to me, but then again that makes him seem pretty innocent if you see my point.

Of Valier I am still very unsure. I'll be keeping an eye on her.

As for the others, Nerwen and Sally both look pretty innocent at the moment.

Lommy, though... She does seem very genuine, no doubt. She hasn't given me any reason for suspicion as yet. However, I'm afraid that if she is a wolf, she'll pass unnoticed. The same goes for the other loud, leader-ish and innocent-looking ones such as Rikae and in a way Legate as well. They don't look suspicious, but by gaining a sort of leader role (or at least a leader attitude) in the discussion, they might be able to hide themselves. I am not saying we should lynch all loud people, no. I am just saying that we must not forget their existence as possible wolves the way I almost did.

Of the others, I am very very unsure. I suppose I should read through the whole thread and try to look at the people as individuals. So far, I've been concentrating more on the discussion as a whole.

So true, so true. We'd need a wolf to practically slip what he is to get any proper accusations toDay.

And, as everyone seems to be making such a fuss about this statement, I think I should clarify it a little. I'd like to underline the word proper. What I actually meant was that it is highly improbable that we'll find valid evidence against anyone yet.

What comes to the random votes, I'm definitely against them (whatever image I may have given). Even though we might not get any valid proof of anything, I find a vote based on poor evidence hugely better than one based on absolutely no evidence at all.

EDIT: x-ed with the seven latest posts

[Valier]

well I hate to have to bring in a third lynch candidate, but other than my gut today I don't have more to go on. I just haven't had the time to digest and think about what everyone has said. Tomorrow is another day and if I survive till then it will be all the brighter, seeing as I should have time to think things through after rereading and give better opinions. Good luck to us all.

++ Mormegil

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

Agreed! Far too often people look at previous games. Not always wise to do.

I see the statement was stated to be a joke later...odd

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by morm

too many european posters so a lot to catch up on in the morning.

Europeans: 8, Australians: 1, Americans: 10 (unless I miscounted)

Hard indeed is the lot of mormegil...

Originally Posted by Rikae

The fact is, wolves do know something the rest of us don't - they know who is evil, and who is innocent.
[...]
I certainly trust my intuition on Mac by now, as I was able to guess his role almost immediately in the last two games.

No comment.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nerwen is indeed acting very defensively, however, unlike Lommy, I seem to recall her behaving similarly in the last.

I don't entirely agree. She did have defensive streaks, but not as continuous as this time - on a Day One.

It seems like I'm the only one suspicious of Volo today. Maybe I'm misled, maybe everybody else is. Anyway, as there is no way he'll be lynched today, I think I'll have to look elsewhere for now. I'm going to return to him tomorrow.

I think I'll better get myself a fresh look at everybody before I vote.

[Kuruharan]

Valier is beginning to look a bit furry to me.

She seems unnecessarily defensive and then votes for Morm out of the blue on some...I'm not even sure "suspect suspicion" really adequately describes it.

Still I'm very reluctant to vote for her today. I am still uneasy about Thinlómien...

[Rikae]

I'm around.

I'm leaning toward giving Valier a chance to look guiltier, or more innocent toMorrow.. As for this thing between Lommy and Nerwen, I'm inclined to think there has to be a wolf between the two of them. There is simply too much aggression there... it doesn't seem like two innocents going at it, but rather, either a wolf trying to get an ordo lynched, or a cornered wolf fighting back in desperation.

I don't quite understand Mac's suspicion toward Volo based on Volo's suspicions of me, which (though wrong), weren't particularly wolfish looking to my eyes. I can't help but feel Mac is letting personal feelings cloud his judgement. (Sorry...)

I also don't agree with the suspicion towards The Might. He could become one of those easy Day 1 lynches, but honestly, his strangeness is more of the "not really paying attention" variety than the "wolfish" one.

[The Might]

Hmmm...I'm curious to see what will happen, so I'll go ahead and do it:

++ The Might

for being so out of the ordinary.

[Kuruharan]

Sooo...is The Might being suicidal because he's given up on himself or is this part of a cunning plan to turn people away from him.

I think its a cunning plan to turn people away from him...but I honestly can't say whether it makes him more likely to be guilty or innocent.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by morm

But what you said is interesting when compared to what you said previous to this.

Yes, I know. Believe or not, and think what you will, but I actually thought that slight contradiction when making that post but decided to say exactly what I said anyway. It would have been a very long ramble if I had commented those two statements' relation to each other. But still, they're different things, really and I do not think there's any problem with having those two opinions at the same time.

Originally Posted by Rikae

and the determined way Lommy pursues her is slightly worrisome.

"Determined way I pursue her"? Could you elaborate? I don't think I've determinedly pursued anyone. I do suspect Nerwen but definitely not so much that I would start pursuing her.

Originally Posted by Kuru

But I think he's right that Thinlómien's been talking a lot...and it strikes me that she may be putting up a front of being helpful while in actuality stirring up a lot of mess and confusion.

Helpful? Nice to hear that. Stirring up mess and confusion? I might be doing that, but not intentionally...

Kath's vote looks pretty futile even for a Day1 vote.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

It is quite possible, I think to read this as a threat: "Disagree with me and I'll lynch you". It certainly made me nervous.

Really? It was not meant as a threat but truth be told I don't mind that it made you nervous - especially as you decided to state your feeling. It's a little thing to get nervous of, if you're an innocent.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And I'm starting to feel that Lommy is working a bit too hard at setting up a no-win situation for me.

Really, what have I said to make everybody think I'm so much after you? You happen to be the person I suspect the most but I'm no way certain of your guilt, actually on the contrary - like I've said more than once I don't have strong suspicions yet. Even though your way of reacting to being even slightly accused does look quite wolvish so maybe I do have a stronger suspect now.

I don't know what to make of Nerwen's vote post, but I don't like it.

Originally Posted by Green

However, I'm afraid that if she is a wolf, she'll pass unnoticed. The same goes for the other loud, leader-ish and innocent-looking ones such as Rikae and in a way Legate as well. They don't look suspicious, but by gaining a sort of leader role (or at least a leader attitude) in the discussion, they might be able to hide themselves.

Funny you should say that as all of us have been suspected to some extent today... more than many others, for example.

Originally Posted by Valier

well I hate to have to bring in a third lynch candidate

If this is our list of lynch candidates, I'll be brining in a fourth one, unless I must act to save myself from lynching or to save the village from a double or triple or quadrupule (or whatever) lynch.

Now that I have got to the topic, I may probably state the obvious and remind you all that we have an unlimited amount of lynches, so we should be really careful. I don't see any reason for us to lynch more than one person on Day1.

Now I'm going to reread the whole thread and think it all through again.

edit: xed with everybody after morm