Who is your favorite bad guy in the Lord of the Rings?

[Lord Denethor]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Welcome to the Barrow-Downs, Lord Denethor!

I am surprised that your namesake has been ignored by the major designers of figurines. Do you attribute this to the manner that Denethor was presented in the movies as contrasted to how he was presented in the books?

Thank you! I used to be active here around 2006 or so. I rediscovered this site and figured a new start would be nice.

I do think Denethor’s been ignored because of PJ’s depiction of him in the films, yes. I don’t blame John Noble at all, I think he was great as the Lord of Gondor. But PJ and co. disregarded almost all of the good descriptors of Denethor that Tolkien wrote, both in the book and letters, such as the noble personality, and the fact that Denethor was stronger in mind than Boromir and more akin to Faramir. The movies rendered Denethor into a meme with the tomato-eating, degraded his character by betraying his noble, strong personality in favor of a weak-willed suicidal maniac. His suicide fell flat on screen, it’s supposed to be a very sad fate for such a man. But the general audience never picked up on that because of how he was portrayed on film. Alas.

[Mithadan]

Agreed. As portrayed in the books, Denethor was wise, dedicated and focused upon his obligations to Gondor, if perhaps not to the crown, which at that point was theoretical at best. Some say he fell, influenced by Sauron. In my view, he was broken by the weight of the times and his duties, which, based upon what he saw in the palantir, were hopeless.

The movies, unfortunately, portray him as petty, cowardly and self-centered, bordering upon evil. I suppose that the movie Denethor was not a good candidate for a WETA figurine.

[Snowdog]

Is it wrong to say 'Peter Jackson' is the ultimate bad guy?

Lord Denethor, along with Faramir and Aragorn, were some of the many atrocities PJ did to characters in Lord of the Rings. I respected Lord Denethor in the books. He was a strong Dunedain man who was worn down primarily by wrestling with Sauron through the palantir, but also the death of his wife. The weight that finally broke him was the death of Boromir, and that allowed his mind to be overrun by Sauron after that.

I can't stand watching those movies anymore. The only love I have for them is because of their making, I met my wife and soulmate.

Ok... bad guys ... along with the witch-king I mentioned earlier, another favorite 'bad guy' for me in the books was Grima Wormtongue. Now the whole Saruman/Theoden bewitching scene I pictured in my head from reading the books, and what I hold to is much different that how PJ portrayed it. Saruman didn't directly 'possess' Theoden from Isengard, but used Grima as his extended vassal embedded in Meduseld as Theoden's trusted advisor. Saruman gave Grima the power to enchant Theoden with his smooth-talking slick tongue that slyly let his believable, but deceiving words into Theoden's head, wearing him down over the years. It was more subtle than the outright Saruman possession of Theoden that PJ gave us. Grima was wonderfully portrayed by Brad Dourif in the movie, but it was sad that his excellent portrayal and performance was wasted by the crappy screenplay.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Tolkien's dragons are some of his best villains. Smaug, Glaurung and Chrysophylax are all deliciously wicked in their own ways.

[Bêthberry]

If we move out of book territory into other media, I nominate Frank Frazetta for his gross depictions of Eowyn not dressed in disguise as a man that moved the fantasy way outside Tolkien territory.