New Tolkien coming!

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

I believe that the quote dates to the late Third Age and is what the Nazgul offered to Dain in exchange for the Ring or information leading to its recovery ("the least of rings.... a trifle that Sauron fancies...").

But didn't Dain refuse the offer?

And what about the mentions of Celebrimbor and Narvi?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I'm pretty certain the reference is to Annatar, even though "Moria" is anachronistic (but then , it's on the gate inscription!). Not just the mentions of Celebrimbor and Narvi, but the idea that they were cozened by false promises. Sauron is not offering to give Moria back, but that he'd refrain from trying to take it (let's remember that in the Second Age Sauron was pretty much Emperor of the World outside Lindon, Eregion and Moria).

A second reason is that the handwriting gives me the impression of being considerably later than ca 1950 when the Chronology itself was done, and feels to me like it was aborted drafting for Of the Rings of Power or perhaps the History of Galadriel and Celeborn.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I'm pretty certain the reference is to Annatar, even though "Moria" is anachronistic (but then , it's on the gate inscription!). Not just the mentions of Celebrimbor and Narvi, but the idea that they were cozened by false promises. Sauron is not offering to give Moria back, but that he'd refrain from trying to take it (let's remember that in the Second Age Sauron was pretty much Emperor of the World outside Lindon, Eregion and Moria).

A second reason is that the handwriting gives me the impression of being considerably later than ca 1950 when the Chronology itself was done, and feels to me like it was aborted drafting for Of the Rings of Power or perhaps the History of Galadriel and Celeborn.

I know that you spent years on these texts: but how can you tell when any of it was written?


It's honestly amazing...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It's nothing more concrete than just a feeling. Like most people's, Tolkien's handwriting changed over time, moving from one variety of awful to another, and the penciled scrawl on the back of the Chronology seems to resemble 1960s scribble more than it does early-50s scribble. But, no, nothing definite can be drawn from handwriting, aside from the fact that notes in ball-point are necessarily from the 50s or later.

My very provisional dating instead has to do with what he was writing when, and the only two texts I can think of that that scrap might have been intended for. (It's perhaps worth noting that, aside from their signatures on the west-gate, Celebrimbor and Narvi appear nowhere in the Lord of the Rings, not even the Appendices.)

[zionius]

Could you provide Marquette shelfmarks for time-schemes II and A-D? It appears one of them is MSS 3/1/34.