Name Changes?

[Arvegil145]

Speaking of genealogies - will they appear at some point in the finished work?

Because I'd gladly volunteer to make them: ALL of them - I love making family trees! Spent years meticulously, painstakingly getting them right, to the point of borderline obsession.

[Arvegil145]

Also, you should change Ingwion to Ingwil - according to 'The Nature of Middle-earth': the text that mentions the name 'Ingwil' is from c. 1959, while the one in 'The War of the Jewels' that mentions 'Ingwion' is from c. 1957/1958.

[Findegil]

Does it only look like that or do the others avoid this thread?

{Hador Lorindol}[Magor Dagorlind the Swordsinger] & {Magor the Sword}[Hador Glorindal} I already hasitating agreed to this change, but I would like some other opinions here as well.

{Ingwion}[Ingwil] Agreed, good catch.

About genealogies: We have a chapter for them in volume III. But so fare we (as a group) have only worked on the content list in that part. I do not know what ArcusCalion has done on them already.

But I would like to add a warning here: The project tries to eddit Tolkiens work not to perfectionat it. I have my self made genealogies spanning from the first generation of Men to Eldarion and his unnamed sistern, but since Tolkien never made anything alike that, they clearly do not fit here.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

I agree about {Ingwion}[Ingwil].

The Hador/Magor issue is a big change, and I'd like to personally scour HoMe a little bit to satisfy myself about it. I agree, however, that the mentions of Hador in LotR are not a problem.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I agree about {Ingwion}[Ingwil].

The Hador/Magor issue is a big change, and I'd like to personally scour HoMe a little bit to satisfy myself about it. I agree, however, that the mentions of Hador in LotR are not a problem.

IMO, the only significant change to Hador/Magor swap is that Tolkien never provided the exact date that Hador became the Lord of Dor-lomin in the later conception (in the earlier one, it was in FA 416, I think).

But, assuming that the dates of the Hador/Magor swap remained the same, that would place the establishment of the Lordship of Dor-lomin in FA 367 (since in the earlier conception Hador became the Lord at age 26 in FA 416, and in the later conception he is essentially given Magor's date of birth: FA 341).

I hope all of this made sense...

[gondowe]

Hello everybody. How are you folks? I've out of this web since the Concerning...the Hoard revolution. But I read this updates now and only want to make my opinion about this name changes.

Of course I agreed about Inngwil but... this is a fast thinking.

In its time I considered the matter of Magor/Hador change, but, refresh me if I'm wrong: as I include a Tale of years of first age, the change of this names, wouldn't mean a reinvent of born years and year lines?, in spite of possibly the last known desire of Tolkien but never developed in narrative that feed the change.
Well, I possibly must re-study the texts but, a priori, I'm not agreed with this.

Greetings

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by gondowe

Hello everybody. How are you folks? I've out of this web since the Concerning...the Hoard revolution. But I read this updates now and only want to make my opinion about this name changes.

Of course I agreed about Inngwil but... this is a fast thinking.

In its time I considered the matter of Magor/Hador change, but, refresh me if I'm wrong: as I include a Tale of years of first age, the change of this names, wouldn't mean a reinvent of born years and year lines?, in spite of possibly the last known desire of Tolkien but never developed in narrative that feed the change.
Well, I possibly must re-study the texts but, a priori, I'm not agreed with this.

Greetings

1) Earlier idea:

- Magor (born in 341)
- Hathol his son (born in 365)
- Hador Lorindol, Hathol's son (born in 390; became the Lord of Dor-lomin in 416; died in Dagor Bragollach in 455; husband of Gildis and the father of Gloredhel, Galdor and Gundor)


2) Later idea:

- Hador Lorindol (born in 341; and at some undisclosed date becomes the Lord of Dor-lomin*; he also receives the Dragon-helm at a much earlier date)
- Hathol, Hador's son (born in 365)
- Magor Dagorlind, "the sword-singer in battle", Hathol's son (born in 390; became the Lord of Dor-lomin after his father Hathol's unknown date of death; died in Dagor Bragollach in 455; husband of Gildis and the father of Gloredhel, Galdor and Gundor)


In other words, Tolkien simply switched the names 'Magor' and 'Hador' in the genealogical table of the 'House of Hador': i.e. he gave Hador's dates and deeds to Magor, and vice versa (except the Lordship of Dor-lomin!) - it's really not a monumental change.





*footnote - if going by the age at which Hador became the Lord of Dor-lomin in the earlier conception (aged 26), Hador should become the Lord of Dor-lomin in 367 (i.e. 341 + 26 = 367) in the later conception - but this is just speculation


P.S. It also makes far more sense for Hador, the original Lord of Dor-lomin, to be the son of Malach Aradan, who spent much of his life serving Elven lords: to the point of adopting an Elvish name ('Aradan') and naming his children in Elven tongue ('Adanel' and 'Hador').