How would you have written The Rings of Power?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Form

All of which is to say... the reason this thread has few replies is that it takes a LOT of time to reply to properly. I don't feel like I've answered it adequately, but I'm out of steam and bedtime looms. You get the idea, though--I hope!

Yes, as soon as I saw the thread, I said to myself "I need to reply to this." It's just a matter of finding the time to do it properly.

I'm going with the same specifications the Amazon series has: a 50-hr show, 5 seasons, 10 hours per season. Only access to LOTR and the LOTR-Appendices.

Like Huey, the main storylines of the series are the ones I like the most. The forging of the Rings, the fall of Eregion (Celebrimbor's relationship with Sauron/Annatar), the fall of Numenor and the Last Alliance. I recall before watching the series, one of the showrunners (either Payne or McKay) said the story from the 2nd Age they loved the most was Numenor. After watching season 1 and reading their comments about the fall of Numenor is a different story than LOTR, it's easy to tell they have a deeper understanding of the material than Peter Jackson. They said it's about the mortality of men and Numenor being ripped apart from within between the King's Men and the Faithful. However, I'm also in agreement with everyone else who has said just leave Numenor out of Season 1 completely.

I think that is the biggest pacing problem for me. Yes, Numenor was stunning and I like how they showed the structure with different classes. I just don't see a "need" to have Galadriel be in Numenor at all, nor have Halbrand/Sauron there at this time either. Those caused the biggest problems for me, and I feel Numenor bears the brunt of the "time compression." Which, I'm sure that time compression will have to be necessary, but it's also ok to show how time passes for Elves. I like Form's idea about this.

I've written a lot already and running short on time, so sorry if this gets brief and hard to follow...

Season 1:

Prologue was ok (I really liked the reference to the Kinslaying of Alqualonde). Narrated by Galadriel still. I would have cut Finrod's importance to Galadriel out completely though. Replace it with the cause of strife between Elves and Dwarves in the 1st Age. I don't recall what specifics are mentioned in LOTR and the Appendices, but there is I think enough references in the text that Elves and Dwarves do not get along. Showing the tension between the two races would be important for Plot B.

Plot A. The Elves relationship with Annatar/Sauron. The main elves being Gil-galad, Celebrimbor, and Galadriel, how they interact with Annatar. Forging the 3 Elven Rings.

Plot B. I'm ok with Elrond being the ambassador/link between the Elves and Dwarves, but Celebrimbor would still be involved. So, Elrond, the Durins, and Disa don't change much between how it's in the series. Remove the Elves need mithril to survive plot. Replace with Celebrimbor designing the Doors of Durin and their construction. Forging the 7 Dwarven rings.

Season 2: Heavily focused on Men, bring Numenor into the Season.

Plot A. I do like the invented Adar plot and what they have done with the orcs. I think the origin of orcs and portrayal are the best things the series have done. Adar is the character I'm most interested in, just because of the mystery and not knowing how this will eventually play out. So, keep the Adar/orcs/Numenor stuff, but put it all into Season 2 and make that the focus.

Conclude the Sauron/Adar/Southlands plot.. That is, perhaps at this time, it would still be unclear that your Sauron figure is actually Sauron. (Huey brought up a good point in another thread that you can understand the series went with a different name for "Annatar."). My "Sauron figure" would be on the side of the Southlands against Adar, Numenoreans join on the side of the Southlands and establish a foothold in Middle-earth.

Plot B. Elves and Dwarves will still be involved in the season, but they take the subplot spot in the season, to show better the passage of time. Forge the 9 Rings of Men (might be able to move forging the 7 rings to this season too).

Season 3: Sauron's out now and essentially it would follow these parts of the timeline from Appendix B:

c. 1600. Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dur. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron.
1693. War of the Elves and Sauron begins. The Three Rings are hidden.
1697. Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. The Gates of Moria are shut. Elrond retreats with the remnant of the Noldor and founds the refuge of Imladris.

Plot B. Show the Numenoreans power and foothold in Middle-earth increasing during this season, which makes Sauron nervous. Establish it in this season, because Sauron's war with the Numenoreans will come to a collision course in Season 4. It will also establish the settlements that Elendil and the Faithful escape to after Numenor's destruction. Don't introduce Elendil until Season 4 though. The main focus on this season is Sauron's War with the Elves and laying waste to Eregion.

Season 4: No Elves or Dwarves this season. It's all about Sauron's war with the Numenoreans. His defeat and capture. Corrupting Ar-Pharazon and the sinking of Numenor. Introduce Elendil and his children. I realize this is still doing a lot of funky things with the timeline, but after Season 3. The impression I want to leave is the Elves and Dwarves of Moria are in a recovery mode after Sauron laid waste to Eregion.

Season 5: Elendil, his sons, and the remnant of the Faithful escaped the sinking of Numenor and fled to the previously established Numenorean settlements in Season 3. They come to Middle-earth, meet Gil-galad and Elrond to form the Last Alliance. War of the Last Alliance. Death of Gil-galad and Elendil. Defeat of Sauron and overthrow of Barad-dur.

That is the general path I'd follow if I was writing it. Inventing characters (like Arondir/Bronwyn/Disa) as necessary for the Adar/Southlands plot and doing wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff. As much as I like and am interested in the Stranger and Harfoots plot, I think it's just adding too much. As I said, from the 2nd Age I'm most interested in Sauron, the Rings of Power, Fall of Eregion, Rise and Fall of Numenor. I think that's enough to make a compelling 50-hour 2nd Age Middle-earth story. Then again, the Amazon series probably isn't aimed for hardcore Tolkien nerds like you and me.

Edit: Crossed with G55.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Form

X-posted with Huinesoron, it took me so long to get here--and he pre-agrees with me that Númenor should have been saved!

I was thinking on this, and it made me realise that Tolkien saves Numenor for later, too! Both of his Numenor tales - The Lost Road and Notion Club Papers - are presented as journeys towards Westernesse. The land itself only appears very late.

And... he kind of does that with LotR, too. The high Numenorean culture is hinted at by Faramir in book 4, but only actually encountered in book 5. Doesn't book 3 literally end with Pippin not reaching Minas Tirith yet, to stretch out the reveal a little longer?

In thinking about that, I realised that LotR is, in terms of its "good locations", also a walk back in time. We start in the 19th/20th century England of the Shire; step back to a slightly rougher time in Bree; visit a stately home/lord of the manor in Rivendell; go on to an Arthurian Middle Ages setting in Lorien (the gift-giving lady is straight out of Gawain and the Green Knight, which Tolkien wrote on!); hit up the Anglo-Saxons in Rohan; drift through "William Morris' Huns and Romans" on the edges of Mordor; and then come out the far side of the dark ages into bright Numenorean civilisation.

It's only one way of describing it, of course, but it has me wondering if you could do the same with Rings of Power. Can we construct a storyline that runs through the locations in that kind of 'temporal reversal' way?

We open in Eregion, in a very modern-seeming elvish society. Our protagonist is once again Galadriel: not as a warrior but as that combination of commander-politician-sorceress that befits a member of House Finwe. Her family are here, because we need Celebrian later. Artanis is hanging out with Celebrimbor, who has this idea about making something - but he needs dwarven help.

Drift into the Industrial Revolution (a regression, Tolkien would agree!) by contact with Khazad-dum. Celeborn fills the RoP Elrond role with Durin and co. We also have the Annatar plot - keep the viewers guessing by having multiple possible-Annatars around in Eregion, then drop Actual Annatar out of the blue at the end. ^_^ Forge the Rings, and discover, oh no! Annatar is a baddie!

As the War of the ELves and Sauron kicks in, Galadriel runs the retreat. She ends up holed up in Rivendell - filling a Tudor manor role, with Elrond as its lord. We first meet him as an intimidating figure - Finwean, heir of Gondolin, son of the Evening Star - but soon realise he is 'as kind as summer'. Elrond/Celebrian romance under siege.

The siege is (temporarily?) lifted by Lindon, and Galadriel and co are able to make it to Lindon. This is the last of High Elven culture, a relic of Beleriand - think Age of Chivalry, King Arthur as commonly viewed. The war is still ongoing! There's probably a whole season of The War, seen mostly from around its edges.

Send Galadriel out on a secret mission (to uncharted space!). She crosses the Misty Mountains by the High Pass and lands in a pastoral, Anglo-Saxon-esque world. Honestly this is probably proto-Hobbits (& stuff the timeline), but it could be woodsmen too.

On into the woods and make contact with the Greenwood elves. They're a combination of Roman (I understand Amon Lanc has a Legate ) and pre-Romanesque - ie, native archers hiding in the underbrush. No doubt they refuse to help out, setting up their reversal later on. We can even go on to the Entwives as a prehistoric-type society (maybe this is where the proto-Hobbits come in). Galadriel is essentially putting together a Fellowship to try and do something to end the War.

I'm not sure how the plot works out, but ultimately Team Galadriel don't save the world - Numenor does, coming completely out of nowhere in their black ships to just crush Sauron. This is my moment of timeline compression - the Numenoreans are led by Ar-Pharazon the Golden, and they drive Sauron all the way back to Mordor and take him captive. The story moves, at last, to Numenor, and the grand culture we find there.

From that point on we follow both the fall of Numenor, and the Elves dealing with what was left behind. Some malaise is afflicting the dwarves, which the audience may realise is the Rings. The Nazgul are rising, one at a time - perhaps some of them are characters we know. The Numenorean settlements in Middle-earth aren't as nice and helpful as they seem, and they're getting worse...

Then the Cataclysm, the founding of Gondor & Arnor (some politics here, as they're basically founding it on the backs of Pharazon's slaves), and finally the Last Alliance, when the Greenwood elves redeem themselves and everything comes together. Huzzah!

Honestly, I like this much better than my last suggestion (for all the similarities) - the structure feels more Tolkien, and the realisation that you can have everything at once just by merging the two "Numenor defeats Sauron" battles (which don't really have anything between them anyway) works really nicely. The downside, of course, is the same as last time - you're holding off a lot of the big-name elements (Hobbits, Elrond, Gil-Galad, Numenor) until several seasons later. Eh, that's one for the Marketing Department.

hS

[Formendacil]

A minor thought, occasioned by this thread (especially G55), is that Amazon kind of shot itself in the foot for having any FURTHER shows taken out of the Second Age: by condensing everything from the founding of Eregion to the coming of the Istari into a single human lifespan--or less!--they're making it much less likely that they'd ever get a chance to do MORE.

If they did a complete show JUST about Eregion and it does well, now you're set up for ANOTHER show about Númenor's decline AND another show about your fanfiction of the Silvan Elves AND another show about the Harfeet and the Entwives and then a big crossover for the Akallabêth and the Last Alliance--and by preserving the centuries that Amazon has elided into a couple years, you leave room to carve out more if the audience keeps enjoying it.

In other words, I think Amazon has utterly prevented the chance of doing a "Disney+ Star Wars" on the property. Which, admittedly, is probably something the anti-adaptation fans would prefer. Obviously, the big reason why is that Amazon has a fifty-hour licence--take it all and cram it in, I guess (eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow the Estate won't let us make anything more).

That's a bit short-sighted, though, I think--if RoP does well (over the long haul, whatever that ends up being), there's pressure to let Amazon do more, and over the LONGER haul, either the rights expire or the Estate's leadership gets ever more gold-sickened. Either way, to box the world in to a single generation when it could have been spread over millennia strikes me as a lost opportunity, and one that would require quite a bit more fanfiction to disentangle when the opportunity someday comes.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Given that these are short, 8-episode seasons, Season 1 could have been given over entirely to Aldarion and Erendis, and the return of the Numenoreans to ME (with the pilot given over to the setup, the end of the Elder Days and Numenor's foundation). Each season would represent a time-jump, with the fourth and fifth covering the Downfall and the War of the Last Alliance more or less contiguously.