Tolkien and Isolationism

[Boromir88]

I think I rather clumsily wrote my thoughts out in the original post.

First I'll start with Bombadil because I agree that he is not an isolationist. I was primarily thinking about Gandalf's comment about Bombadil being a "moss-gatherer." And I failed to realize Morth's point that this makes Bombadil stationary. I think Tolkien has criticisms towards characters who remain static, because Gandalf is the primary good figure and he is a "stone doomed to rolling." Being stationary can lead to isolationism, but not necessarily.

As far as some of my other points...I think I should have began with the different ways isolation turns up. I kind of just spurted out my random thoughts in the first post.

I would say there is political isolation (isolationism, as a policy). This most clearly shows up with Gondolin and Imladris, who chose isolationism as a policy out of an instinct of survival/to outlast the enemy. As mentioned by Pitch and Morth the dangers of this choice (even if it is well-intentioned).

There is also societal isolation, which is found in The Shire. And I would argue this is different than the isolationism of Gondolin, Nargothrond...etc, because hobbits seem to have made the choice to make their society isolated. It's not out of an instinct to survive, or out last an enemy. I actually think the opening chapters Tolkien describes the Shire's isolation idealistically. It may be an ideal but the reality of the world makes the hobbits' isolation unsustainable. As Gildor hints at:

"The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out"~Three is Company

And then there is personal isolation, this can be seen with Denethor (and there are other examples). But Denethor makes the choice to personally isolate himself, not just in the way he describes arm-chair leadership, but he chooses to cut himself off from everyone. It seems to begin when his wife dies, and then quickly escalates with Boromir's death and Faramir's injury:

'After her death Denethor became more grim and silent than before, and would sit long alone in his tower deep in thought, foreseeing that the assault of Mordor would come in his time.
...Thus pride increased in Denethor together with despair, until he saw in all the deeds of that time only a single combat between the Lord of the White Tower and the Lord of the Barad-dur, and mistrusted all others who resisted Sauron, unless they served himself alone. ~Appendix A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anarion

Perhaps this is the isolation Tolkien is most critical of? To fence your society off from the rest of the world is an ideal, but it's also ignorant. The real world makes it unsustainable. However, to personally isolate leads to despair, hopelessness, and Denethor descends into madness.

I've always thought of Theoden as a foil to Denethor, because they go through similar trials but Theoden escapes from despair in the end. Grima's whispers are isolating Theoden from his kin, and keeping him confined in Meduseld.

"Now, lord' said Gandalf, 'look out upon your land! Breathe the free air again!'~The King of the Golden Hall

Edit: x-post with G55

[William Cloud Hicklin]

But then (just to play Devil's Advocate), Numenor's corruption and downfall can be traced directly to its expansion back to the Great Lands and their endemic infection with Morgoth/Sauron taint. Had the Dunedain stuck to their island, it wouldn't have happened.

[Zigûr]

In my view it is the act of trying to close oneself off from the evils of the world and create an inviolate fastness that seems to most consistently lead to disaster in the narratives, especially in the First Age, because when things inevitably do go wrong in Nargothrond, Doriath and Gondolin, they go badly wrong very quickly. In the Third Age, Rivendell and Lórien were able to keep the evil of Sauron out, but their real enemy was time, which defeated them just as Elrond and Galadriel knew it would.

As for Hobbits, the Shire may have been somewhat wilfully isolationist, but this was only achieved because they were protected by the Dúnedain, which they weren't aware of. And it also made many hobbits fatuous, stubborn and narrow-minded.

I think Professor Tolkien recognised the appeal of isolationism but always moderated it with drawbacks, some relatively mild and others extremely severe.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

But then (just to play Devil's Advocate), Numenor's corruption and downfall can be traced directly to its expansion back to the Great Lands and their endemic infection with Morgoth/Sauron taint. Had the Dunedain stuck to their island, it wouldn't have happened.

The only ban the Numenoreans faced was sailing West to Aman, and the westward ban itself was the germinal factor leading to their eventual downfall -- long before the Cult of Morgoth accelerated the process.

There was never a prohibition on them sailing to the East, nor did the Valar insist the Dunedain stay locked in the harbors of their island home (as the Valar had proscribed the Eldar from leaving Valinor); therefore, Numenor was never isolationist.

[Boromir88]

I believe WCH's point in bringing up Numenor (and please correct me if this is wrong) was to point out there were consequences to becoming too expansionist as well. Because if Elves were generally isolationist, I would say the Numenoreans (and their descendants, the Gondorians) were globalists. They sought to expand their influence and bring 'enlightenment' to Lesser Men. I'm thinking about Faramir's comments:

"Yet now if the Rohirrim are grown in some ways more like to us, enhanced in arts and gentleness, we too have become more like to them, and can scarce claim any longer the title High. We are become Middle Men, of the Twilight, but with memory of other things. ~The Window on the West

Faramir talks about the southern kingdom didn't care as much about mixing bloodlines, as Faramir puts it they have become "Middle Men" because of their mingling with the Rohirrim and Harad and Umbar when Gondor was at its height of expansion.

If I'm recalling correctly, the Dunedain did not mix their bloodlines, they did not mix with say the Men of Bree, as an example.

So there would appear to be consequences for being expansionists, as well. Perhaps Tolkien was cautioning about being on the extremes of either end?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Well, there were two consequences, or three. The first was really metaphysical or spiritual: whereas Elenna was purified, Middle-earth was tainted by the marring of Melkor and the ongoing evil of Sauron, so simply going there resulted in a sort of inchoate moral contagion. More practically, Numenorean colonization both raised the ire of Sauron, and started Numenor down the slippery slope of imperialist pride which led eventually to Ar-Pharazon.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So there would appear to be consequences for being expansionists, as well. Perhaps Tolkien was cautioning about being on the extremes of either end?

Well, yes. Don't be exclusive, but don't force your way onto others, let's just all be friends. A balance that is easier said than done in a real life scenario.

'Well do I understand your speech,' he answered in the same language; 'yet few strangers do so. Why then do you not speak in the Common Tongue, as is the custom in the West, if you wish to be answered?' -TTT, The King of the Golden Hall

...But how long would Rohan and Dunland and all the various other ethnic pockets maintain their own languages that are separate from the Common Speech after Aragorn's globalization? Assuming that the globalization continues after his death and the North and South don't fall apart again, that is.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

...But how long would Rohan and Dunland and all the various other ethnic pockets maintain their own languages that are separate from the Common Speech after Aragorn's globalization? Assuming that the globalization continues after his death and the North and South don't fall apart again, that is.

They still speak Cantonese in Hong Kong, Swahili in Kenya and Hindi (and 599 more) in India

[paulag]

Your post reminds me of something another fan wrote the first time she read The Silmarilion. The Elves described in that book are more real, with their own bad deeds and jealousies to deal with. For instance Feanor and his sons. For the most part good, but so blinded by what they want that they stoop to do really nasty things, including attempted kidnapping and murder.

As for them being isolationist. I always point out that Tolkien wrote from the perspective of the middle ages. In those days the average man did not leave his village his entire life except if his master called him to war.