4 Of the coming of the Elves - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 07-25-2021, 05:05 PM

Thank you for explaining your reasoning. I certainly agree that, if possible, it would be nice to include as much of this elaboration of the characters of Manwe and Melkor as possible. I'm just not sure how much is possible.

It seems to me, though, that the more crucial point here is not so much Melkor's deceptive surrender at the climax of the battle as it is Manwe's inclination toward lenience and forgiveness. What if we were to keep the AAm/LQ narrative for the battle, with Melkor defeated and chained, but also keep the LT council where the Valar debate what to do with him? Then we would still have the strong characterization of Manwe as the seeker of reconciliation, but without having to rely on a sentence from MT to narrate a critical part of the story. We might even find it possible to touch up the LT council scene with bits from MT to suggest Melkor's feigned repentance at this point, and highlight Manwe's attempt at compromise. Thus, while rejecting the part of the MT story that contradicts AAm/LQ as an unimplementable projected change, we could use it to enrich the depiction of character and motive inherent in the earlier story. This would, in my opinion, do far less damage to Tolkien's texts than changing the whole story of the battle by splicing in sentences from MT.

I'd also note that I don't see the chaining of Melkor here as precluding the moment of realization by him and Manwe about his dispersal of power, nor the moment of near repentance. The only difference is that in this case, despite the realization, Melkor at first tries to fight anyway, and it is only after he is defeated that he has his trembling moment.

I wrote the above a week ago and intended to try my hand at editing the text in the way I suggest, but haven't had the time to sit down and do so. So I thought I might as well just post the suggestion so that you can think about the idea, and I'll try to provide a text to show what I have in mind later this week. Not sure if this idea is at all tenable for you, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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07-25-2021, 05:05 PM	#33
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Thank you for explaining your reasoning. I certainly agree that, if possible, it would be nice to include as much of this elaboration of the characters of Manwe and Melkor as possible. I'm just not sure how much is possible. It seems to me, though, that the more crucial point here is not so much Melkor's deceptive surrender at the climax of the battle as it is Manwe's inclination toward lenience and forgiveness. What if we were to keep the AAm/LQ narrative for the battle, with Melkor defeated and chained, but also keep the LT council where the Valar debate what to do with him? Then we would still have the strong characterization of Manwe as the seeker of reconciliation, but without having to rely on a sentence from MT to narrate a critical part of the story. We might even find it possible to touch up the LT council scene with bits from MT to suggest Melkor's feigned repentance at this point, and highlight Manwe's attempt at compromise. Thus, while rejecting the part of the MT story that contradicts AAm/LQ as an unimplementable projected change, we could use it to enrich the depiction of character and motive inherent in the earlier story. This would, in my opinion, do far less damage to Tolkien's texts than changing the whole story of the battle by splicing in sentences from MT. I'd also note that I don't see the chaining of Melkor here as precluding the moment of realization by him and Manwe about his dispersal of power, nor the moment of near repentance. The only difference is that in this case, despite the realization, Melkor at first tries to fight anyway, and it is only after he is defeated that he has his trembling moment. I wrote the above a week ago and intended to try my hand at editing the text in the way I suggest, but haven't had the time to sit down and do so. So I thought I might as well just post the suggestion so that you can think about the idea, and I'll try to provide a text to show what I have in mind later this week. Not sure if this idea is at all tenable for you, but I thought I'd throw it out there.