TIG CXVII: DEAD Thread: By the Waters of Tarn Aeluin

[Blind Guardian]

In accordance with what was discussed prior to the start of the game, we don't believe that the DT should function as a Seer. Therefore, no one player's role should be given with certainty. Furthermore, as mods, we don't feel it is fair to give free information that can override all the player's actions, as that will invalidate the playing and break the game. This 50/50 scenario is something that should have been foreseen but wasn't, and for next games some sort of caveat should be made for this situation. But for now, please accept our apologies and this infodrop. While redundant, we hope that it will still point out a different perspective to you.

We are aware that you may be upset about this change and we are prepared to listen to any complaints you may have. Therefore, we have prepared a complaint box for your enjoyment. We hope that this is satisfactory.

There have only been 3 wolf-on-wolf votes in the game.

[Loslote]

That’s very fair, and I wondered if you might come to that decision! I, for one, am not going to complain. I think the Ghost and infodump mechanics have been great, and I especially like that the Living have one perspective and set of information, the Dead Thread has another, and the Ghost has a third, which is basically an outdated version of the Dead Thread perspective. It makes for a very fun game with high tensions and lots of excitement.

[A Little Green]

Ooooh, well done Form and Lottie! So we're down to Lommy or Morsul for the last wolf. I'm tempted to say that if it's Lommy she deserves to win. She could just as well have used the Confused Lommy -act to justify a vote for Pitch instead of throwing in a fellow who had avoided more or less all scrutiny until then. (I don't think anyone had voted for Legate all game until then. It was getting a bit creepy, actually.)

Originally Posted by Form

I am mildly petrified of a Lommy-wolf killing Boro overNight and an Ordo-Morsul seeing Pitch's continued life as a clear sign of Wolvishness--get [b]Soro[b] to go along (he does, after all, seem to care a bit more about being mod-fired for not voting than for actually not voting...) and you've got a Dead-proof vote for a Known Innocent.

That's a terrifying possibility. It'll be interesting to see whether the last wolf will go the obvious route and kill Soriman as a more or less known innocent, or do something else.

Originally Posted by BG

There have only been 3 wolf-on-wolf votes in the game.

I'm aware this doesn't actually give us anything definite, but I did go back through the votes anyway. If the last wolf is Lommy, the 3 wolf-on-wolf votes would be Legate>Sally (D3), Lommy>Sally (D3) and Lommy>Legate (D4). If the wolf is Morsul, they would be Legate>Sally (D3), Morsul>Sally (D2) and Morsul>Sally (D3).

As for toMorrow - Kath, would you like to go back as Ghost yourself and tell them about Boro and Pitch? Or does someone else want to do it?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Well, Hui looks like he's having fun--and he's got some excellent texts. Almost too excellent. To my mind, he's conveying the information extemely well.

Not that I necessarily want to make a tough job tougher, but... it might be worth considering for future iterations, if we want to keep upping the difficulty level, so as not to have "set texts," that a Ghost can only use a quote once per game--i.e. no repeating that extremely useful "Innocent" quote from UT.

A suggestion for the future--not now!

I absolutely agree with this, and have in fact named my file of quotes/posts "Breaking the Ghost over My Knee". This is why I argued for some limits on the role - cutting it down to one quote per post or giving a posts-per-day/posts-per-hour limit would seriously reduce the ability to do this sort of thing. No reusing quotes is also good (and would make it very hard to say "innocent" reliably, or to talk about "Iluvatar" very much).

The biggest realisation I had was that I could bracket multiple name-quotes with repeats of the information about them. It's very hard to misunderstand "three quotes saying 'pitch' with 'we don't know for sure' on either side". (I was perversely glad not to have to clue Kath, though; that was definitely my weakest prospective post.)

Originally Posted by Kath

Popping in but won't be back til after work. Is Hui allowed to read in here today? Cause Pitch is not a wolf. Dreamt him last Night.

I noticed mention of this last night when I checked in, and it's hilarious. ^_^ There's me trying to come up with ways to explain why we suspect him, and you lot all know he di'n't do it!

Originally Posted by Kath

Still popping sorry! Dreams were:

Night 1 - Greenie - innocent
Night 2 - Sally - wolf
Night 3 - Boro - innocent
Night 4 - Pitch - innocent

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

In accordance with what was discussed prior to the start of the game, we don't believe that the DT should function as a Seer. Therefore, no one player's role should be given with certainty. Furthermore, as mods, we don't feel it is fair to give free information that can override all the player's actions, as that will invalidate the playing and break the game. This 50/50 scenario is something that should have been foreseen but wasn't, and for next games some sort of caveat should be made for this situation. But for now, please accept our apologies and this infodrop. While redundant, we hope that it will still point out a different perspective to you.

We are aware that you may be upset about this change and we are prepared to listen to any complaints you may have. Therefore, we have prepared a complaint box for your enjoyment. We hope that this is satisfactory.

There have only been 3 wolf-on-wolf votes in the game.

This is entirely fair. Going back for a final Things We Know:

A) This information all used up.

B) This information all used up.

C) This information all used up.

D) The last wolf can be found among Boro, Pitch, Lommy, and Morsul .

E) Soriman is innocent.

F) Boro and Pitch are innocent.

G) Lommy or Morsul is the last Wolf.

H) When not bussing Sally, the wolves all love each other very much. ^_~

hS

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Greenie

As for toMorrow - Kath, would you like to go back as Ghost yourself and tell them about Boro and Pitch? Or does someone else want to do it?

I think it would be very fitting for the Seer to return as our final Ghost, but I'm not sure what Kath's timings are like? I think we need a Ghost-drop right after DL, because otherwise an innocent Morsul could pull an early-day Pitch vote again and throw everything to the winds.

I wonder who we'll see toMorrow... objectively the last wolf should kill Soriman, because a Known Innocent in the final 4 is a terrible thing. But when that innocent has such a low post-count, and has in fact missed two votes, it might be better to instead target someone you think is likely to out you/someone to misdirect suspicion.

It would be hilarious if Wolflomien killed Morsordo to try and get people to vote Innopitch.

~

I scribbled some notes in the haze of yesterDay evening, and it looks like I found Lommy's interactions with the Ghost somewhat suspect.

Originally Posted by Lommy #445

I don't understand Hui's posting.

...

I would like to know how they're sure they know, but I guess I'll just have to take a leap of faith.

Originally Posted by Lommy #458

Yes, I agree toDay's messages have been clear.

...

Or does it mean he is not hostile to me or Morsul (since we're the ones with Sindarin usernames) and the dead think we're all innocent? Or even know something?

1) The second post flatly contradicts the opening of the first on whether she could understand my posts.

2) In the first, she tried to tempt me into explaining how we know Soriman is innocent. That would be a great way to get a confusing Ghost post that she could use to sow more confusion in the camp.

3) Seeing a quote that says 'innocent' in the middle, and trying to parse a mention of Elves as being specifically about the players with Sindarin names is just... well, a huge stretch, and I don't think very likely to do in good faith. Looking at my opening posts and thinking I'd throw in two more Known Innocents ("or even know something?") in an incredibly oblique couple of words is... nah.

Of course, I also scribbled about Lommy and Pitch working together to get Boro and Legate to turn on each other or Morsul, so that's the value of my thoughts.

hS