The Balrog as the Loathly Lady from medieval literature.

[monks]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I think you're having an old argument with someone else here. Boro neither said nor implied that you were egotistical; he said you were falling into logical fallacies like appeal to authority (eg 'this agrees with Priya Seth's anagram, so you KNOW it's true!'). As for 'the Tolkien Community': the Downs is a very small, very quiet corner of the internet, and you've made less than 20 posts here. You've not had 'a lot' of people reply to you, and you don't have enough evidence to say 'very closed minds' - just 'they haven't agreed with me'. Again, I think this is an argument you're making against some other community.

If you'll take some advice, I'd say you're more likely to get positive reactions by sticking to etymologies (for now) than by posting about numerology. We all know Tolkien was a philologist - I'd wager most of the Downs recall the phrase "low philological jest", even if they can't remember what Tolkien was referring to (the name of Smaug; I had to look it up, though). Drawing out hidden etymological details may lead you down blind alleys sometimes ("'Ring' comes from words that also meant a circle of people, so that's why Tolkien had a Fellowship!!!"), but you can at least support them with specific data. Numerology is... well, to be polite, we'll say 'very subjective'.

A brief example: let's say I conclude for whatever reason that Tolkien's use of the number 7 is because he loved the movie
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Snipped your post- still not got the hang of the boards..heh I'll respond..

There's a thread for that! The Downs likes to keep its threads at least vaguely on topic, so replies like this are best suited for the original thread.

hS

Uhm Boro said I had big boots in his quote regarding Saruman. Of course it's implied with Gandalf's words to Saruman. Saruman wanted to become 'a Power' and replace Sauron who wanted to be King of kings essentially. The boots is a reference to Bombadil: philology. And Bombadil is Tolkien the philologist with a private symbolic language who seems to speak nonsense to everyone. Saruman tried to make a counterfeit with machine wheels of Tolkien's narrative 'machinery' which is the TURN and his *Wheel* of Fortune which turns the world (and the subject of Seth's anagrams). I've got lots of evidence for all of that. And the Powers are those 4 compass points, Tolkien's incorporation of the Ezekiel's Tetramorph: Eagle, Bull, Lion, Man (hint: *wheels* within wheels). But you don't know that stuff- people seem to already know for a cast iron FACT that I'm wrong. If Boromir88 didn't intend that, it's implied in the quote itself.

Anyway, no biggie.

Access to the OED. That's rather cool. I've been considering subscribing myself. At the moment I'm using etymonline and Skeats. I said in the Tolkien Community. The community is a lot bigger than these boards as you state yourself. I've encountered it elsewhere. So has Priya.

Blind alleys? See my reply to William Cloud Hicklin. No it's you who are blind in this matter. You are all reading TLotR map upside down and I've just posted links to more hidden imagery in that reply.

You said, "Numerology is very subjective."

Thanks for the advice, I know you're trying to be constructive.

But no it's definitely not subjective in specifically Tolkien's works. Tolkien took his number system from Dante and developed his own from that which is encoded in the Chain of Angainor. Have you read any of those predictions I've made? Let's extend your analogy. Could you make specific predictions about details of moments in the film *even down to the second* before you even saw it based on Tolkien's use of those instances of 7?
That's what I've done. And not just once. Over a hundred times now. Tolkien has a system. He refers to it in hints in 'A Secret Vice'. Numerology is part of it because he was influenced by Dante and the medievals: numerology in the Bible, folk-lore, Dante, the Ancient World.

26 Predictions to date based on his numerological system. They're all in yellow there.

You can see evidence of the medievals again in his medieval symbolic landscape. See links posted in the reply to William. The famous LotR map is a medieval symbolic landscape.

I've sat on all of this for a very long time. I didn't even speak about it for 10 years. I don't believe in speaking as an authority in something before I've listened (to Tolkien in this instance, and a number of scholars out there inc Shippey, etc). I'm EXTREMELY sure of everything I'm saying.

monks