Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

If you're convinced that was his reasoning, fair enough, I suppose.

You got it.

Congrats on your milestone, I see you have surpassed 3,000 posts.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Congrats on your milestone, I see you have surpassed 3,000 posts.

Thanks! Playing Werewolf does that to you...

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't have a particular recollection about that, but she has a thing for doing brash things while somehow not appearing quite as brash

This is actually a good description of the general feeling I got from her posts.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Btw about QT -

there's still a nice innocent majority there (or, nice and nice, not sure dead innocents outnumbering dead baddies is a good thing ) but there's three baddies and Lhuna is the tie breaker, so if the innocents disagree with each other and mess it up, there's a chance the baddies can wrestle control of the QT vote.

It's 6:3 now; Hui & Lhuna can PM behind the others' backs, and we can count on G55 to vote with whatever the wolves come up with, so yes, a concerted baddie action to derail the QT vote is not out of the question. We'll all have to see what the Cuties come up with and decide whether we're willing to trust it.


I need to sleep over all this now. See you all later.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

It's 6:3 now; Hui & Lhuna can PM behind the others' backs, and we can count on G55 to vote with whatever the wolves come up with, so yes, a concerted baddie action to derail the QT vote is not out of the question. We'll all have to see what the Cuties come up with and decide whether we're willing to trust it.

This, and Lommy's post as well, rub me the wrong way. Smacks of trying to get us to mistrust the QT vote as not coming from a good place - while the dead innocents don't have any extra knowledge, I think there's slim-to-no chance they mess up, split 3/3, and give the evil deaders control (because that's literally the only scenario in which evil gets control.)

While sure, it's not impossible, I think there's a tiny enough chance of it occurring that I plan to fully trust the QT vote as coming from an innocent perspective, and casting pre-emptive doubt on it strikes me as shady.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Looking back on the last few minutes to see where my head's at gives me a pool of Lommy, Brinn, and Pitch. Based on prior QTs, it's entirely possible I'll wake up, see how everything has gone, and be shruggy about any wagon that isn't one of those three.

It feels like Zil is a bit of a meme at this point. Like, he hasn't really been on my radar, I recall agreeing with a couple of things he had to say, but I feel like literally everyone else suspects him (I recall seeing several versions of "And Zil, he's just been suspicious all game, I don't need to go into detail here") which is how I kinda feel the Huin and Lhuna QTs went, to a certain extent, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him be QT'd and a wolf, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I feel a bit at odds with the entire village in terms of who I suspect, to be quite frank. But I got G55 and Rikae correct, so I'm taking this game as a personal win regardless.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hm, I lied. I'd be decidely un-shruggy about a Greenie or Lottie wagon. Don't let me wake up to that.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Hey, I called out G55 and Rikae correctly D1! And there was only one Cobbler to find!

I also called Gal cobblerish and thought Rikae looked innocentish and I think so did several others(?), so, it's not enough to ping my psychic radar

Originally Posted by Inzil

Who there could "have information we don't" besides the wolves?

Everybody. They have Huinewolf to observe. Of course, we have no idea what he's doing there, I mean the extremes are posting nonsense all Day and Night (in which case the innocents there do not know much) and him having actually spilled the names of his packmates there either as a newbieish mistake or as the ultimate trolling move. The likely scenario, form what I've seen from Huine before he was lynched, is something in between. Also it's worth bearing in mind that the qt is full of innocents who are freer to think outside the box than living innocents because 1) their time/energy is not swallowed up by having to defend themselves from accusations and 2) they can't fall into the trap of kneejerk suspicion against people who suspect them unlike we do (nor can they conversely discard their valid suspicions just because they might be kneejerk). Of course, they might also be paying less attention to the game than us living ones because understandably they have less to do. But still. I do think they have certain advantages in wolf spotting if they're willing to use them.

I find it interesting that first Pitch says there's a Greenie-Eönwë-Shasta connection, then I agree about Greenie-Eönwë and Greenie-Shasta but not Shasta-Eönwë, then Shasta himself chimes in and says him-Greenie maybe but not him-Eönwë, and lo what happens? Ka posts a long analysis heavily pointing at Shasta-Eönwë, which Shasta quickly retailiates to by suspecting Ka-Eönwë. Something is very furry in here...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

They have Huinewolf to observe. Of course, we have no idea what he's doing there, I mean the extremes are posting nonsense all Day and Night (in which case the innocents there do not know much) and him having actually spilled the names of his packmates there either as a newbieish mistake or as the ultimate trolling move. The likely scenario, form what I've seen from Huine before he was lynched, is something in between. Also it's worth bearing in mind that the qt is full of innocents who are freer to think outside the box than living innocents because 1) their time/energy is not swallowed up by having to defend themselves from accusations and 2) they can't fall into the trap of kneejerk suspicion against people who suspect them unlike we do (nor can they conversely discard their valid suspicions just because they might be kneejerk). Of course, they might also be paying less attention to the game than us living ones because understandably they have less to do. But still. I do think they have certain advantages in wolf spotting if they're willing to use them.

YesterDay's result indicates they aren't just "posting nonsense" (at least not the innocents). I seriously doubt though that anything Huey, or now Lhuna, say can be taken at face value. The good side there is certainly very solid.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I find it interesting that first Pitch says there's a Greenie-Eönwë-Shasta connection, then I agree about Greenie-Eönwë and Greenie-Shasta but not Shasta-Eönwë, then Shasta himself chimes in and says him-Greenie maybe but not him-Eönwë, and lo what happens? Ka posts a long analysis heavily pointing at Shasta-Eönwë, which Shasta quickly retailiates to by suspecting Ka-Eönwë. Something is very furry in here...

Does that put Steve as the lynchpin?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I find it interesting that first Pitch says there's a Greenie-Eönwë-Shasta connection, then I agree about Greenie-Eönwë and Greenie-Shasta but not Shasta-Eönwë, then Shasta himself chimes in and says him-Greenie maybe but not him-Eönwë, and lo what happens? Ka posts a long analysis heavily pointing at Shasta-Eönwë, which Shasta quickly retailiates to by suspecting Ka-Eönwë. Something is very furry in here...

Yeah, I'm home now and can elaborate. Gimme a sec.

[Brinniel]

Again, my time is limited, but I've been reading posts in between my normal workday.

For what it's worth, if I were to vote now, I would vote +-Inzil. And to a lesser extent +-The Ka.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Zil

YesterDay's result indicates they aren't just "posting nonsense" (at least not the innocents). I seriously doubt though that anything Huey, or now Lhuna, say can be taken at face value. The good side there is certainly very solid.

I'll be very disappointed if the innocents there are just posting nonsense.

But Huine's position there is really interesting! Would he say basically anything, knowing everybody knows he's a wolf and it could be used against his pack? Would he bluff? Double bluff? How did he and Galadriel arrive to the conclusion of voting Brinn on Day3? Since they had to discuss openly on the thread, is it possible Huine let slip something that the innocents that joined the QT later can use (or have already used by voting Lhuna)? Is it possible the QT didn't just get lucky in their guess about Lhuna but they actually knew she was a wolf?

I would really REALLY like to know what's going on in the QT. But I should probably be careful what I wish for...

And by the way, I still maintain that them dropping off the Brinn vote as soon as the innocent majority took over is a point in Brinn's favour. The innocents in the qt thread have read what lead to Huine and Gal picking Brinn for the second Day in a row, and they're in a much better position to judge Brinn's connection to Huine than we are.


edit: xed with #1114 and onwards

[THE Ka]

(Back, sorry, trying to plan and coordinate with family stuff.)

Originally Posted by Pitch

I get where the suspicion of Ka comes from, but I wouldn't want to vote her after she just defended me against Shasta, because it would feel mean.

That's thoughtful, but if I look suspicious and you have evidence to identify so, then go for it. I'm not holding it against anyone for going ahead and playing the game.

Honestly, part of me is really still curious about the QT (as much as some of you wish I'd stop talking about mechanics... Sorry!), so if I end up there so be it.

Originally Posted by Shasta

but I also kinda want to hold my vote until the end on general principle.

Gotta keep the tradition alive friend.

Originally Posted by Boro88

I don't feel like I'm walking into a trap with her questions. So yeah, not sure, but feel good.

... Hmmm.


As for the QT vote... not expecting that and I don't really see why Rune.

Originally Posted by Zil

I can't see them splitting their votes. Surely there was a bloc against the evil contingent.

I'd certainly hope so, the innocent should hold majority and be suspicious of anything the other three say. To be zany, considering the two wolves can PM each other, they could have decided to push some other choice than Rune knowing the rest besides G55 would do the complete opposite, but that's a reach. I'd hope the majority would have considered that factor, because three shouldn't be able to overthrow that much of a majority.

I'd also assume that if anything, the innocents are going to trust any past insights their two gifteds could have, which might mean either Kit and Sally voted elsewhere, or at least one of them suspects Rune. Neither of them is the Seer, so at the end of it, whatever information they have isn't sure proof on roles. It would be down to the feeling of trust that innocents are going to want to back their gifteds.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I find it interesting that first Pitch says there's a Greenie-Eönwë-Shasta connection, then I agree about Greenie-Eönwë and Greenie-Shasta but not Shasta-Eönwë, then Shasta himself chimes in and says him-Greenie maybe but not him-Eönwë, and lo what happens? Ka posts a long analysis heavily pointing at Shasta-Eönwë, which Shasta quickly retailiates to by suspecting Ka-Eönwë. Something is very furry in here...

I'm coming around to the idea of suspecting Eonwe, though I would still rather quarantine Ka. I could easily see Ka's latest post as an attempt to tie an innocent Shasta to her packmate Eonwe. I don't have a good sense for where Greenie fits in here. I am more inclined to trust her and Shasta at this point in time.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I'm coming around to the idea of suspecting Eonwe, though I would still rather quarantine Ka. I could easily see Ka's latest post as an attempt to tie an innocent Shasta to her packmate Eonwe. I don't have a good sense for where Greenie fits in here. I am more inclined to trust her and Shasta at this point in time.

Holy crap this x10000. Gooooo Lottie!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Okay, hot take - Ka is evil. Potentially with Eonwe, based on her last stuff.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I find it interesting that first Pitch says there's a Greenie-Eönwë-Shasta connection, then I agree about Greenie-Eönwë and Greenie-Shasta but not Shasta-Eönwë, then Shasta himself chimes in and says him-Greenie maybe but not him-Eönwë, and lo what happens? Ka posts a long analysis heavily pointing at Shasta-Eönwë, which Shasta quickly retailiates to by suspecting Ka-Eönwë. Something is very furry in here...

I'm obviously not going to contradict Ka's reading of me, and I've been thinking along similar lines, but this (I mean Ka's post) would also make sense from a packmate of Eönwë's who doesn't have high hopes for his longevity and wants to implicate Shasta if Steve is a wolf.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Everybody. They have Huinewolf to observe. Of course, we have no idea what he's doing there, I mean the extremes are posting nonsense all Day and Night (in which case the innocents there do not know much) and him having actually spilled the names of his packmates there either as a newbieish mistake or as the ultimate trolling move. The likely scenario, form what I've seen from Huine before he was lynched, is something in between. Also it's worth bearing in mind that the qt is full of innocents who are freer to think outside the box than living innocents because 1) their time/energy is not swallowed up by having to defend themselves from accusations and 2) they can't fall into the trap of kneejerk suspicion against people who suspect them unlike we do (nor can they conversely discard their valid suspicions just because they might be kneejerk). Of course, they might also be paying less attention to the game than us living ones because understandably they have less to do. But still. I do think they have certain advantages in wolf spotting if they're willing to use them.

All good points.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I'm obviously not going to contradict Ka's reading of me, and I've been thinking along similar lines, but this (I mean Ka's post) would also make sense from a packmate of Eönwë's who doesn't have high hopes for his longevity and wants to implicate Shasta if Steve is a wolf.

Pitch with the same thing. Nice.