Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Except that Maeglin had every chance to turn over a new leaf, and didn't. Even if he didn't want to confess his treason (reasonable), or turn directly against Morgoth during the battle - all he had to do was accept that Idril wasn't his. To walk away from the city, flash his hypothetical credentials to the nearest Balrog, and sit back to watch it all burn.

He didn't. He went after her - despite her being married to someone else - and while trying to abduct her, also did his best to kill her son and erase the tangible evidence of that marriage.



M[a]eglin's response to the person he hates coming at him with a sword... is to try and murder a seven-year-old child before Tuor can stop him. At that point, even if you can somehow justify 'drag Idril to the wall to watch him throw her son over', he was irredeemable. There's no way he could tell himself he was really doing a good thing, or just misunderstood, or just protecting himself - he'd crossed the line into outright evil.

And that's okay! Evil characters can be fun (evil people, not so much). They can be tragic. Gollum proves that we can very much like reading them. But in Middle-earth, with Tolkien writing it, they also eventually - sometimes very eventually - either are redeemed, or get their comeuppance.

Maeglin made the choice to be irredeemable. His death was a direct result of that.

(Also, practically: what else could Tuor have done? They could hardly drag him with them through the secret tunnel and up the mountains, and letting an enemy go free during a battle is a great way to get stabbed in the back. I suppose he could have crippled him and left him to burn with the city - but would that really be better?)

hS

They could have chained him or something.


P.S: You up for making a new riddle?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

They could have chained him or something.

Not really. 1. No time, city is in chaos and they need to flee, and 2. Again, the two possible ooutcomes of that are either giving him back to the enemy or a slow and painful death. I think the most just option would have been a trial, but that wasn't possible when the treachery was revealed.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Not really. 1. No time, city is in chaos and they need to flee, and 2. Again, the two possible ooutcomes of that are either giving him back to the enemy or a slow and painful death. I think the most just option would have been a trial, but that wasn't possible when the treachery was revealed.

Depends on what such a trial would entail.


And you think his canonical death wasn't slow or painful? Striking the rock thrice and then gettin' burned seems both slow and painful from where I stand....

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Not really. 1. No time, city is in chaos and they need to flee, and 2. Again, the two possible ooutcomes of that are either giving him back to the enemy or a slow and painful death. I think the most just option would have been a trial, but that wasn't possible when the treachery was revealed.

There is also a quote from another book, which is as follows: 'When an individual takes it upon themselves to be a judge, jury and executioner, they become too dangerous to continue in society.'

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

There is also a quote from another book, which is as follows: 'When an individual takes it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner, they become too dangerous to continue in society.'

Which is what Maeglin did, both to Idril and Earendil in person, and to the entire city of Gondolin...

hS

[Urwen]

So did Tuor....


(Also, way to turn my own argument against me...)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So did Tuor....


(Also, way to turn my own argument against me...)

So did Eowyn, when she murdered the incapacitated Witch-king for threatening Theoden. In fact, I'm pretty sure every member of the Fellowship kills someone at some point (Moria, if nowhere else).

I think what you're really saying is that you wish Maeglin hadn't had to die, because you like the kind of stories Tolkien could have built around his character. I get that! I feel the same way about Finrod, who would have made the Nirnaeth and War of Wrath much more interesting to read about.

But for both of them, in terms both of the narrative structure and of their characters as written, their deaths were necessary - Maeglin to bring the tale of Gondolin to a close, Finrod to show the cost of Beren's quest. Fanfic can save them - but most fanfic doesn't have the same continent-spanning epochal scope as The Silmarillion.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So did Eowyn, when she murdered the incapacitated Witch-king for threatening Theoden. In fact, I'm pretty sure every member of the Fellowship kills someone at some point (Moria, if nowhere else).

I think what you're really saying is that you wish Maeglin hadn't had to die, because you like the kind of stories Tolkien could have built around his character. I get that! I feel the same way about Finrod, who would have made the Nirnaeth and War of Wrath much more interesting to read about.

But for both of them, in terms both of the narrative structure and of their characters as written, their deaths were necessary - Maeglin to bring the tale of Gondolin to a close, Finrod to show the cost of Beren's quest. Fanfic can save them - but most fanfic doesn't have the same continent-spanning epochal scope as The Silmarillion.

hS

But none of them killed a supposed ally.....